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  1. #41
    The Hatchery Habreno's Avatar
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    6 quests to flag. 4 quests to run to flag for the last two, then two quests to flag for the raid. Story arc to fit this flagging.

    No pre-quest.

    Three bosses in a timed fight. Killing one causes the other two to raise it again after a few seconds (15s or so). Killing two causes the third to enrage, making the raid much more difficult- the remaining boss regenerates health rather quickly. At half HP he can go back down to a quarter to raise another boss, which will then cause the two to raise the third. This is also a 15s timer from the second boss killed.
    If the timer runs out, the three bosses sacrifice themselves to complete the ritual they were doing. This summons a giant elemental that has a massive amount of HP (think 2m on EN) and deals a lot of damage. He's killable but extremely difficult. Most parties that spawn this guy will wipe unless they're actively trying to spawn him.

    Setting: This is a tough question. I want to say House Denith.

    Three bosses: HP: Lots. DR 10/15/25 EN/EH/EE (DR varies per mob; one is /slashing, one is /blunt, one is /pierce).
    They don't aggro you until you attack them (so if you want to just fight the Elemental you can simply leave them be and let them summon it, and instead of having to wait out the timer there is an option with the NPC that teleports you into the summoning circle to teleport you in a minute before they summon the boss.) and they actually don't attack you until they're under 75% HP (but they will buff themselves with very high CL buffs and do wear some nasty guard items. They have Sheathe in all four elements available as well as many other buffs). Their attacks are spell-based, with high CL attack spells.
    Elemental boss: HP: A ton. A real large ton. Most in the game by at least 2x. DR 10/- all difficulties, DR 15/25/50 /slashing or bludgeoning. He aggros as soon as he spawns. He cannot be intimidated, as he is mindless, but does have an aggro list, which he never resets. Damage from casters does cause increased threat, so casters will likely be very high on his aggro list, and promptly thrashed apart. His attacks are melee, bludgeon + slashing. He breaks DR/Epic and DR/Adamantine with his attacks as well.

    No trash mobs.

    Chests: 2/3/4 EN/EH/EE for killing 3 bosses. 3/5/8 for killing the Elemental boss. Commendation of Heroism: 1/1d2/2d2 for three bosses, 2d2/3d2/3d3 for Elemental boss.

    Loot: Commendation of Heroism crafting (a la Gianthold). Hate to copy it but I think it's some of the best loot crafting in the game, excluding the obvious winner, Greensteel.


    In short, you get a choice to fight three bosses simultaneously or one boss for a very long time. Quest level 32 normal.
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  2. #42
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    IMO, the main hilight of a raid is the raidboss. If the raid boss is made well, the raid is going to be amazing. If the raidboss is lackluster, the raid will be forgotten as soon as the loot from the raid is made obsolete.

    With this in mind, I think we've got three categories of raidbosses in DDO.

    Pretty wall:

    These raidbosses are simply static pieces on the battlefield that the players beat up. Examples include Lolth from CitW & Velah from VoN6. What'shisname from MA does qualify as well, but he typically dies in seconds and doesn't really feel like a real boss in that regard. I don't like bosses like these. There's very little strategy involved *** them, aside from "run behind he rock when she's about to breathe fire on you." As such, once you learn a few clues about their attack patterns, you can basically turn your brain off and do the fight on autopilot.

    Tank & Spank:

    These bosses are dangerous and require someone to take the full force of their attention, while the rest of the group beats their behind. Examples of these bosses include Conjoined Abishai Devastator in Chronoscope, Suulomades in VoD & ToD, Horoth in ToD and LoB in, well, LoB.

    At worst, these bosses can be dealt with autoattack & afk (namely, Horoth is infamous for being nothing more than a build/gearcheck for the tank). At best, these bosses require constant attention not only from the tank, but everyone else as well (Lord of Blades is a prime example of this kind of raid boss. Even the guy on the other side of the map kiting his dogs has to know what he's doing.) Then again, requiring everyone to pay attention to the raidboss at all times can make the raid quite stressful for people who don't care for that kind of gameplay, so either occasional breaks (again, LoB does his little speeches, allowing the group a few seconds of not-focusing.) or sparsity of his special attacks (CAD in Chronoscope does his dragonlike attacks fairly rarely, allowing the group a little breathing room after surviving each attack.)

    Puzzleboss:

    These bosses are not really dangerous by themselves, but there is a trick or a puzzle in the fight that needs to be solved before the boss can be killed. Examples of bosses like these include Titan from Titan Awakens, Black Abbot from The Accursed Ascension, Stormreaver from Reaver's Fate and Sor'Jek from Tempest Spine. Xy'zzy from HoX also qualifies.

    Bosses like these are okay, if the group enjoys a puzzle-based challenges, but once the puzzle's been solved one time too many, they typically become boring sacks of HP. For example, Sor'Jek's got 3 puzzles on him. First you have to solve the floor-tile puzzle, then you have to dump the runes into their receptacles (assuming you went to get them in the first place), and finally, you have to not get blown off the mountaintop once he starts controlling the weather. First two puzzles are static. There's always one way to do them and once learnt, the puzzle becomes nothing more than a timesink. The last part, not getting blown off the area, remains a constant threat, which brings a little enjoyment for a lackluster boss fight. In this sense, Abbot's an excellent example of a puzzle boss. Every special attack of his tends to require either someone or everyone in the party to react with the tools given to them earlier in the raid for the good of the group, promoting team play. On the other hand, Titan is one of the worst puzzle bosses in a raid. Aside from being among the top 2 bugged raidbosses (along with abbot, who tends to break about once every 2 updates), he only requires 2-3 people to control their characters while the rest of the group go for a coffee until the raid's done. He'd be an amazing boss for a quest, but a raidboss needs to make the whole group participate. A special mention goes to Xy'zzy, who is a real puzzle boss in the sense that the method of her defeat is highly unorthodox, while the whole group is still instrumental in completion of the raid...unless some furyshot comes along and breaks the raid.

    All that said, any way a raidboss is made, it should engage the whole group. Not just the tank, or the healer of said tank. Not just the people pulling the levers or carrying the mcguffin. Everyone. Tanks, healers, dps, crowd control. Everyone. In this way, the best raids in the game so far are Hound of Xoriat (when run legit) and Lord of Blades. Any new raid we get should take a look at those raids and see how the whole group has to come together to beat the raid.

    ---

    Some other random thoughts:

    -Any raid that can be completed on autopilot is not a good raid. If it can be completed on autopilot, it won't engage the players too much, will it?

    -[b]A lengthy run to the raid or a preraid that needs to be completed just needs to go away.]/b] I know it won't, because a timesink is a great opportunity to sell a bypass for said timesink. But they suck. They really do. When players want to raid, they want to raid. Not run through endless corridorsin preparation for raiding.

    -Flagging is OK and in some cases, even preferred. Flagging quests set the mood for the story and hopefully grant a feel of epicness to what you're doing in the raid itself, even if the raid is boring. (see also: Caught in the web and it's flagging.) On the other hand, raid needs to be the hilight of the story, the culmination of amazing and awesome that the flagging quests built up to. Consider gianthold Tor and Reaver's Fate. In Ye Olde days, before epic Gianthold, we had to face off against a horde of giants coming from throughout Xen'Drik and kill 3 dragons just to set foot in the raid. The raid must be even more epic than that, right? Nope, in the raid itself, we stood in a big room until a giant was finished with his temper tantrum and then played a game of mastemind. The feel for Tor was just so much more Epic than the feel for Reaver's fate.

    -It doesn't deserve to call itself a raid if it can be soloed with some effort. Quests can be soloed, raids are group activities. (Note, this comes from a guy who dislikes grouping in general) Features that are designed to utterly annihilate anyone attempting a raid alone are a good thing, as long as they're easy to circumvent with another player's help.

    -Minions are a good thing, as long as they don't steal the spotlight. Think orthons in ToD part 3. They're there, and they're annoying. They will mess up your run if you just ignore them. They let you know that Horoth isn't simply alone in there, but has his own troops as well. They were also dealt by one guy while 11 others dealt with the rest of the raid. The bad way to use minions IMO is in FoT, where the minions tend to occasionally be more dangerous than the dragons that spawn them.

    -Minion swarms are good. Even though minions shouldn't steal the spotlight from a raidboss, throwing a swarm of minions is an excellent way to keep the players busy while the boss takes a break. Master Artificer uses minion swarms effectively as part of the raid and makes for a nice little timesink in preparation for the titans. LoB also uses minon swarms well when it spices up the constant fight against the Lord of Blades.
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  3. #43
    Community Member ezmeweatherwax's Avatar
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    Winners:
    VoN
    I know VoN is old and tired, now, but the format was rather lovely. Group coordination to open, and then both minor tactics and and brute strength to complete at Velah herself. A "puzzle" of sorts (about the best that can be accomplished for an MMO) to get there. More raids in this tradition would be most welcome.

    LoB.
    A dance of coordination. Rogue win for most any task apart from tank. A little bit of everything that requires situational awareness at all times from all players. Not a stand in one safe spot and click mass heal or engage autoattack and go make a sandwich type encounter.


    Losers:

    CitW
    A mess. A debacle. An oh god why do you guys want to run this again raid. A raid that's still waiting to be released from beta. Something thrown together in a hurry because oh noes it's time for expansion release and we promised them two raids, lets mix something up real quick so we can meet half our promise...

    A raid that gives you the same sense of being in a foreign place too long that clothes shopping with someone else does...you wonder why you are there and when it's all going to finally end so you can go get a burger already...



    Anyway. Encounters that match VoN and LoB in fun, quality, and initial challenge will be most welcome.

  4. #44
    Community Member count_spicoli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voxson5 View Post
    Something with enemies that builds notoriety over the rise of the characters lifetime would be fantastic.

    I've watched the original devil invasion vids on youtube and I still wish I could have been part of the experience. That kind of atmospheric build up is what <I believe> we want.

    Could it be some Arena style setup? (not as basic as FOT, lets get some grand designs in and push the engine)

    Multiple bosses? Go with a tried and true Undead elven archer (build it up to be a mercy kill from party & a complete Sylvanas Windrunner clone), maybe a Bladeforged FvS for that Ebberon cool factor and something very awesome and very traditional D&D like a Githyanki

    3 way party Split? Limitation on kiting (Sticky effect, Archer has Pin enhancement), More options than surround and pound.

    How about the Bosses disjunct (just to have the effect in more than ...2? places in the game), maybe gate in something very very bad, open up the Astral plane?

    How about a boss who casts more than a small handful of spells? Actually charms a player into fighting for him, Drops an orb of annihilation on the party and then throws a rod of disruption at the orb, bleeds when we cut him (or some other physical sign of hurt).

    How about destructive and adaptive environments? Not just floors falling and we end up in another room below.

    How about Intelligent enemies who cast protection spells *before* the party gets to them, doesn't just blindly charge in.


    I want an epic battle. I want to fail and keep coming back. I want it to never be on Lamania [I want it to be worked out on live, not by unlimited resource supertoons on a preview server].

    In fact, I want the next raid to actually be so epic that we need to wait until the following update in order to gather the knowledge, skills and equipment needed to beat the raid.
    agreed. Don't know about the no l ammonia thing as bugs would be rampant but a challenge would be nice.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    There are no long and complex raids in DDO, we just got quick and easy 12 man quests.

    Ideal raid should take long time and high amount of coordination to complete, in DDO, the only non soloable raids are when 2 or more objects need to be used at the same time.

    Raids in DDO are terribly easy, and requires 0 or almost 0 tactics, just go and beat on boss.

    While having a raid requiring gear from the other raid is impossible, because DDO loot is set of unique properties instead of +X% DPS like in other games (which is good) having hated raid flags and pre raids is good thing, as it may serve to prepare players for what they will encounter inside.

    Complex raid should have long phases, each giving some sort of loot (preferabely barter/crafting style) and after players are passes all, they have acces to last one with best items in raid and final boss.
    Using some sort of pre raid so players can complete parts 1 on friday, 2 on saturday and 3,4 and boss on sunday would be better than complete everything at once or don't start. That's why preraids are good. Turbine just can't use them correctly in DDO.

    Of course, good, long and complex raids are impossible to happen in DDO, because over-entitled, casual socialistic players unable to find guilds or friends, will whine and cry that they can't pug anything.
    I think you're forgetting that raids are easy to YOU because you've obviously been playing a long time and have done them all countless times. And my guess you run with groups (probably in a guild, not pugs) that have done them countless times as well. Some raids require a lot of coordination like VoN 5/6 and HoX. You need to take a step back and look at them from a fresh perspective. Do you remember what it was like when you didn't have the raids memorized? It's obvious that you've forgotten. What you're saying is nonsense, it may be true for the small percentage of hardcore players like yourself, but it is not true for the vast majority of other players.

  6. #46
    Community Member Eilierie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CavernDragon View Post

    If you were story boarding a new end game raid :
    Four branch path split, so group splits into groups of three. Have a mechanic that requires three people ( or better 2 in case 1 person DCs ) in each branch. Each branch is randomized door like Abbot so no pre game meta knowledge. Also like final Shroud portal once a single person clicks everyone is teleported and randomly selected so no easy button send the FvS Wings down path A because he can jump over the whole thing.

    One branch should be ala Rainbow in the Dark - a dark maze filled with randomized Orange Named.

    One branch should be ala classic PnP !!! - a dice roll off ! vs randomized Orange Named (drinking Beholders under table inspired). each member does a roll off vs branch boss, 5 out of 7 and the best team 2 out 3 wins. If win 3 out of 3 = no boss fight, if win 2 out 3 = 1 boss fight if 1 out of 3 = 2 boss fight if 0 out of 3 then go to "jail"(see below) cause you fail.

    One branch should be ala Shadow Crypt - variable random path puzzle randomized Orange Named.

    One branch should be ala Shroud or Reaver's Fate - everyone is ported to their own randomized puzzle, then once they get into the main room they have to solve a huge randomized puzzle together similar to door mechanics that require levers to be pulled at the same time, puzzle pieces would have to be turned at same time. this keeps super puzzler from solving everyone else's puzzle and people standing around with thumb in the bum. and like shroud if someone cant solve others can come in to solve, only to get in they have to solve a puzzle on the door like a keypad.

    Each branch on successful completion will add an extra chest to the raid but will not fail the raid. If a branch is failed the players are sent to "jail" ala Reaver's Fate but are not dead, they have to fight off hordes of monsters testing skill and resource management. Each branch should be timed also to add to the stress, its a raid after its not supposed to be easy ! and also so people aren't sitting around waiting forever for someone to complete their branch.

    Branch chests will be available for looting before end fight because end fight should have a really high chance of failure with variable mechanics again to ward off pre game meta knowledge. So on any given day any given character build could save the day. No more LFM saying INTIMITANK needed, etc. Any possilbe combination of toons can be successful depending on player skill. In fact, the "random" branch mechanic could go as far as sending the "right" toon to the "right branch" i.e. - trapper to the trapped path, divine to the undead path.


    Also there should be 12 different paths so that you could get a variety of different courses every time.

    At the end of the day, it should be complete-able by any combination of classes/builds. It should have multiple phases with craftable loot in each phase ala Shroud. It should be extremely difficult to complete last phase and not just because its a high HP beat down. The flagging quests should have teaser puzzles and mechanics to "teach" the raid.

    Sorry if the thoughts weren't well organized just kind of free-flowing them. The take away part should be randomized or variable !!!
    Last edited by Eilierie; 12-20-2013 at 12:07 PM.

  7. #47
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by axel15810 View Post
    I think you're forgetting that raids are easy to YOU because you've obviously been playing a long time and have done them all countless times. And my guess you run with groups (probably in a guild, not pugs) that have done them countless times as well. Some raids require a lot of coordination like VoN 5/6 and HoX. You need to take a step back and look at them from a fresh perspective. Do you remember what it was like when you didn't have the raids memorized? It's obvious that you've forgotten. What you're saying is nonsense, it may be true for the small percentage of hardcore players like yourself, but it is not true for the vast majority of other players.
    VoN is hard to coordinate for people with extremally low IQ.

    What's hard with putting 6 people at levers?
    What's hard with prepping pillar?

    nothing

    Compare raids in DDO with any dungeons in any other MMO.
    DDO's raids are already easiest raids on market.
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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    VoN is hard to coordinate for people with extremally low IQ.

    What's hard with putting 6 people at levers?
    What's hard with prepping pillar?

    nothing

    Compare raids in DDO with any dungeons in any other MMO.
    DDO's raids are already easiest raids on market.
    Intelligence has nothing to do with it, experience and group coordination are the challenges in these raids. You're taking your higher than average knowledge of these quests for granted by expecting everyone to be at the same level as you. Many players don't have every nook and cranny of these raids memorized and that doesn't mean they're stupid. There's much more to VoN 5/6 than what you mentioned. There's puzzles, traps to unlock, certain items required to be gathered and used, ect. Put a bunch of players together who are not experienced and this can become very challenging.

  9. #49
    Community Member Nightmanis's Avatar
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    The story background:
    I really like the idea of returning to Shavarath. In fact, if we could do something to combine another quest series into it would be awesome. I always wanted to see something like the Lord of Blades being captured and drug into Shavarath where Harry would be standing before an altar. He then becomes a spirit and possesses LoB, giving him tons of demonic powers and re-creating him into a kind of super armoured Devil. You then have to fight him, while also having to fight off mobs of daemonic Warforged, etc. Before you've managed to defeat him, an Angelic figure slams down from the sky into the arena (thinking this will be in what would look like a Gothic Church that's survived all the wars in Hell, so right at the altar). Bit of Dialogue ensues, and she rips the daemonic essence from the LoB and consumes it into herself. This becomes an even more powerful enemy (shrine pops up, allowing everyone to rebuff quickly. Maybe make it a fragment of the Silver Flame that has come to assist you) that you have to face, which requires a tank. Also, since he is now free of his possession, the Lord of Blades agrees to help stop the new enemy but quickly gets wrapped up in trying to help his Warforged Titans to become free of their own possessions. She then summons 2 more corrupted angels, which have to be disposed of, before finally succumbing to your blade.

    Potentially would require 3 tanks and a kiter until the LoB takes the titans, as you would need to kill both of the corrupted angels before killing her (think of them all as being lifelinked together, like in Part 4 of Shroud)


    Pre-quest : Yes or No
    Oh yes. Have them start in the Market at the center, where a group of Scientists from both Kundarak and Cannith are on a quest to learn more about the underground areas (the ones leading to VoD and HoX). Continue on from there, 4 quests max. Maybe even make it somewhat like Von5 only the pre-raid isn't all that long.

    Puzzles / Hack n Slash / Split group up (Titan)
    Add them all!!!!

    Setting (Location location location) Underdark, Dungeons, City, forest ect…
    Already been explained.

    Loot type (crafting Like shroud) Upgradeable like CitW or just Here it is take it or leave it.
    This is where we have some fun. We make a crafting system like what is in Shroud, but instead of making actual complete items (armour, weapons, etc.) you instead are making add-ons for the named items in the raid. You pulled the Angelic Battleplate? Well now you can upgrade the Shoulder Pauldrons, spine, and chain mail. Have the Spear of the Fallen One? You can upgrade the fancy flowy things, and the wrapping on the handle.

    Fun part here, is you can't upgrade them without upgrading the items with hero comms. All weapons get Augment slots at the normal 3 tiers, but now they also get the crafting upgrades as well. Base item (Epic Normal, 1 red augment, nothing else) would then be upgraded to a certain tier, adding both kinds of slots. This would allow you to be able to make a completely custom item.


    Boss:

    Ultimate Armoured Harry:
    High hp, good amount of damage. Basically what made the LoB such a problem, but don't give him the different phases. Just a basic takedown against a heavy hitter/meatsack. Maybe give him some special attacks, little things that need to be watched for.

    Corrupted Angels:
    Good amount of hp, though not anything like the first boss obviously. Lot's of special abilities, combo attacks, stuff like that. Give them plenty of ranged attacks and have their AI set up to take out ranged attackers foremost, making simply kiting them not an option. This makes them more of a melee front line beatdown more than just a kite fest like the spectral dragons and the LoB wardogs.

    Overlord Corrupted Archon:
    Decently Large hp (400k or so), huge DR that requires a DR breaker (no powering through here), Huge PRR, lotta dodge (thinking 20% on EE), Lot's of AC to the point that to-hit actually kind of matters, lots of special attacks, attack sequences, vampiric strikes, occasional monstrous cleave with a callout (talking like a 1000 damage AOE cleave, something you HAVE to run from) Corrupted Punishment (deals both Light and Evil Damage, real quick ticks, 50/100/150 a tick depending on difficulty), fly into the air and rain hellfire onto the field. However, she doesn't move from the center of the corrupted cathedral.
    Last edited by Nightmanis; 12-20-2013 at 11:46 AM.

  10. #50
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by axel15810 View Post
    Intelligence has nothing to do with it, experience and group coordination are the challenges in these raids. You're taking your higher than average knowledge of these quests for granted by expecting everyone to be at the same level as you. Many players don't have every nook and cranny of these raids memorized and that doesn't mean they're stupid. There's much more to VoN 5/6 than what you mentioned. There's puzzles, traps to unlock, certain items required to be gathered and used, ect. Put a bunch of players together who are not experienced and this can become very challenging.
    The challenging part is making sure nobody get's and itchy finger and picks up stuff they have no idea what to do with it and then is mute when everyone is asking who has Voice/Key.

    Challenging part is making sure people can follow simple directions; "3 - 2 - 1, Pull" is beyond what some can manage to do.

    I have never run a VoN5/6 in the past several years where at least someone didn't know the mechanics - running in a group of 12 that didn't know what to do would be a welcome breath of fresh air.

    Hardest part of this Raid is to get people to stop piking through it.

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  11. #51
    Community Member Steven's Avatar
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    The story background: I wouldn't mind seeing something a little different.. Story would be in Underdark. Drow that are part of the cult of the dragon have started to resurrect an Adamantite dragon. Due to the fact these dragons would never become lich on there own this is a forced resurrection. That would be your quest arc necro drow collecting power/items to force the dragon resurrection. Because it's drow you could use a wide gambit of mobs. Undead/Demons/Devils/Drow/Dwarves/Etc. I recommend a mix of all of them to many quests/raids have one type of mob which makes it easy to have one beater for all. Would love to see a necro drow that spawned devils and undead at the same time. Finally boss is an undead Admantine dragon and the cult members that rezzed him. I also wouldn't mind seeing puzzles that could trap some of the cult members so instead of fighting the dragon and 5 cult members you could fight the dragon and 2 members.

    Pre-quest : No flagging is fine but always a pain trying to get 2 groups through a pre flagg quest like DQ

    Puzzles / Hack n Slash - don't like splitting group as it's to easy for one group to fail and have no way of recovering if party is together only takes 1 person to recover ( even if it's a long shot) nothing like having 6 people helpless because the other 6 failed.

    Setting Underdark
    Monsters: Undead, Drow, Demons, Devils, any other underdark drow minion

    End Boss:dracolich Admantite Dragon

    Breath weapon: White-hot fire, Hold monster gas

    Alignment: Neutral Good

    Notes: Oversized natural weapons, Can destroy Adamantium fortresses. Also, they look like they are made of jet-black metal.

    Adamantite dragons are perhaps the mightiest of dragonkind. They are the epitome of good, sacrificing whatever is necessary for the common good of intelligent creatures everywhere.

    Combat: Due to the adamantite dragons strong taste for physical battle, they may use the extra attack forms of dragons (wing buffet, foot stomp, etc.) one age category earlier than other dragons.

    Adamantite dragons may use thew spell-like abilities: • polymorph self, 3 times per day, permanent, may revert to dragon form without restriction • magic missile, (adults and older), five missiles per round • blink, (mature adults and older)

    Plus Undead Template added

    This would of course have to be converted to DDO standard!!

    Loot type: I would like to see something like shroud but on a larger scale. Not just weapons but every type of accessory and armor also each with different choices.
    Fizbin - "How does that knock spell go? Ohh yeah Fireball!"
    Getterdone - Getting it done through all the gimp pugs
    Shaggiy - Looking for scooby

  12. #52
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    This would be a good time to finish the Droam invasion story. It would also be a good time to introduce some mechanics that would require not only thought, but teamwork for the raid. Flagging would be good, say 4 quests with unique items similar to vale to unlock the pre-raids. Then, two separate pre-raids requiring 2 teams of 6 each that finish into a preraid chamber. Each pre-raid would provide a timed item (say 1 hour) that when combined with the item from the other quest would allow you to unlock the main raid. The groups could reform into a raid group in a special public chamber similar to the tower entrance for ToD. I suppose if you had a very good group you could probably run both pre-raids fast enough to get the timed unlock items (edit - and oh yeah, the raid unlocks would be bound to pre-raid difficulty. So no running the pre-raids on casual if you want to do the raid on elite).

    Once inside the main raid you would have multiple parts similar to shroud where each must be completed to move to the next. Possibly ramping up in difficulty with say, a swarm part (like DA), a divide and conquer portion, requiring separate goals that require the party to split (like xorian cypher), a timed kill/respawn mechanic (like FoT), some light puzzles, maybe a combo of the turning tile/lights so you have to activate the lights before you can change their states, with spawns that rotate tiles as they cross over them. Final fight would be against Sora-Kel, Sora-Katra and maybe some of their sisters with a staggered start (again like ToD with suulo dropping in).

    Craftable loot similar to greensteel would be great. Require the 4 flagging items, plus two rare items from the pre-raids to make the base item (all BtA except the pre-raid items that are BtC). Then upgrade materials available only in the raid and based on difficulty with an exception of an upgrade path. CoH from the raid, and they would be able to be used to upgrade N->H->E crafting materials. In addition, the materials for base item crafting would only be available in Heroic versions of the raid, with level limits. If a character is over the raid level, the chance of heroic crafting items in the chests eventually drops to 0%. This would encourage running at level rather than easy buttoning, and the materials could be BtA so people could pass them from lower alts. Loot crafting would be 6-tier, going from Heroic Normal min level upgradable to EE min level.

    Lots more ideas, but this is a start that I thing would satisfy a lot of the calls for more customizable loot, more raids at level, more reason to run quests at level and keep powerful items as earned and not bought from the AH.
    Last edited by Milikki; 12-20-2013 at 12:21 PM.

  13. #53
    Community Member ycheese123's Avatar
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    Story Backgroud: [Something cool].

    Pre-Quest: Yes to Flagging. I don't mind pre-raids or long wilderness runs, so don't care if they're there or not. The raid itself should take long though.

    I prefer lots of trash mobs. Puzzles are fine as well. AND group split up would be fun. I'm all for that, I've been thinking party split up would be cool. I like Eli's thoughts with all the random doors/paths. It shouldn't be for something that determines the ultimate fail/success of the raid but add extra xp, and chests perhaps with unique bonus items or +1level, encouragement to succeed.

    Setting: I like ToD setting the best, the big Devil's Tower. Couple phases with mini bosses. So one giant building, or castle, or underground complex, etc. No portals though. I want to walk through the whole area; all the rooms and levels, not jump around via portals. Also with an outside part like Tempest's Spine. Oh as for the actual setting... just somewhere with snow and ice, and in Eberron. With monsters bursting through ice walls surprising you. Floors breaking and party members sliding down ice tunnels into other areas...

    Monsters: I don't know.

    End Boss: Something that really fights back and is a challenge. Something like the Abbot, where he moves around, can't be tanked in a corner and beat on from behind. but also does things that break up the combat and drag out the fight like Inferno and encasing ppl (where they die if not taken care of), Dispelling effects from your gear. He's simply the best boss and still a threat to even ranged characters with his unique attacks. LoB is a good boss too because he attacks behind himself, does whirlwind and someone needs to grab his aggro repeatedly. Multiple bosses is a nice idea, such as MA. But NO kill at the same time / within 10sec mechanic. It's worn out and seems to be used as a lazy concept to put in if you can't think of another challenge.

    There should be some other threat from trash mobs going on, but something that can't just be kited around in circles for 5mins. I want to fight monsters not watch someone play with them.

    Loot type: Craftable/Upgradable of some sort where each phase has materials like Shroud.
    Orien
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  14. #54
    2015 DDO Players Council Seikojin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seikojin View Post
    If you were story boarding a new end game raid :

    The story background:
    The war between good and evil is never over. Devils and Demons again are fighting for control of something that will threaten Eberron and Faerun. Obviously trying to pick up where Lolth left off.

    Pre-quest : Yes or No
    Yes: You would have to complete the spinner of shadows and motu to unlock.

    Puzzles / Hack n Slash / Split group up (Titan)
    Definitely, what is a quest without puzzles.

    Setting (Location location location) Underdark, Dungeons, City, forest ect…
    It would start in Amrath and end in a between plane.

    Monsters:
    Plenty. The idea would be something I mentioned in another thread. Where you jump into a battlefield where devils and demons are fighting among each other and you help one side or the other win. Or optionally call in the Asimars to defeat them all. The demons and Devils should switch from fighting eachother to hunting players after a certain demon or devil threshold is met. Optional nameds being the key.

    End Boss:
    This would be a choice thing. Fight a pit fiend, a balor, or both. If you choose to fight one, the other should come in to finish it off. But if you choose both, you should have an Asimar helping. Obviously these bosses would spawn many lesser to help make things challenging.

    Loot type (crafting Like shroud) Upgradeable like CitW or just Here it is take it or leave it.
    I think it should be crafting sets that include earlier amrath sets to upgrade. Top end gear.

    As hack and slashy as it sounds, there would have to be some puzzles and gnarly traps.
    Since I can't edit posts on this browser/build, gonna have to add any details in new posts. YAY!

    In the raid I was describing, I think the players should start in a prep location, like chronoscope does, have a meeting, and something go awry there. Combat ensues and the time it takes would be the trigger for a portal. That portal, time based for creation, would indicate which starting location it leads to. All but a couple should lead to trapped/damage zones that harry the players to find safe ground and enable paths to safety.

    The Devils and Demons have placed wards, traps, and safeguard on portals that they spawn from. Several portals are also warded that prevent the Asimar from interfering.

    At each portal should be an appropriate guardian. A few demon/devil masters with 4-6 underlings each on all but elite. On elite, it should have a named balor or pit fiend in addition to the rest. After 'slaying' the guardians, the group has to handle a light up puzzle around the gate to remove the ward. Once the ward is removed, they have to destroy the portal.

    When the time expires, the ward resets (hitting all the lights to prevent staging), the top tier mobs re-appear, and summon more underlings to reclaim the gate zone. This should also kick off a yellow dungeon warning.

    After the gate is destroyed, a chest should be available.

    optional objectives should exist to find and side with any of the three factions involved, or side with none and slay them all.

    After all the gates are closed, a final throng of whatever factions are left rush a large central gate. The players will see them activate it, step in and it reward. They will have to fight or join a fight among what is staying back, unlock, enter, lock that side of the gate, pursue the enemy group, killing what is left behind, and ultimately fight their leaders in the in-between realm.

    The factions are headed for a different gate than what Lolth was using. They found a way to reach the heart of Eberron, the dragon core. Their goal is to weaken it and control it so they can overwhelm Eberron wherever and whenever they want.

    As the group approaches, the enemy party (ies) should be pushing some dragon guardians back to the core, leaving the warded gateways exposed. The players have to defeat them in a timely fashion, or delay them long enough for the guardians to reform and help drive the invaders off.

    During this battle, the leader enemies will engage the party using spawns of lesser monsters and crowd control. Then use targeted strikes to try and take our support players to weaken the groups survivability. IE, mezz the group, vorpal the casters. Or mezz the group, dominate the caster/stun the caster, drop a throng of trash around them. While that is going on, a few lesser enemies will try to unlock the gate to enter the core. Each lock they go to undo will start damaging them. Same with the PC's who try to reset the lock. And the PC's can reset each lock any way they see fit. Each turn of the locks puzzle controls generates chaos orbs that is stationary for a bit, then moves out of the way, dances around the battlefield, then disappears.

    The end fight should end with 2 chests on normal, 3 on hard, and 5 on elite.

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