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  1. #41
    Community Member FlaviusMaximus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    I totally disagree. CITW is the most fun of all of the raids.

    Most of the others are a quick cage match. Or take too long to do a preraid.
    I also enjoy CiTW. Feels a bit more "epic" than the arena fights. I suspect that a lot of the negative feelings for that raid stem from the bugs that plagued it when it was released.

    The only thing that really bothers me about it is Lolth's sp drain. It's no fun when my melees lose their cocooning ability.

  2. #42
    The Hatchery zwiebelring's Avatar
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    I suspect that a lot of the negative feelings for that raid stem from the bugs that plagued it when it was released.
    Nopes. Mechanics,eating upyour sp on a annoyingly high amount and droprates, which are abysmal for enduring annoying mechanics.

    After running it on ehard, why run it on ee? There has to be more incentive other than tomes to run something on epic elite. That is determined by everyone himself. I miss an epic atmospherefighting Lolth, actually I am disappointed we have the typical *evil speech + plot device ends something instead of players to prevent head explode by story writers and deadend for one of the highest ranked deities in DnD universe*.

    Railroading per excellence in there with annoying mechanics and low droprates of important ingridients.

    It is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrAjPXykbXA
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  3. #43

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    CitW is the only raid I actively dislike and will not run even in guild runs.

    My favorites are LoB, ToD, VON, Shroud, Chrono, ADQ, and FoT.

    VoD is okay. HoX is interesting but kind of annoying. Reaver's Fate is meh; neither good nor bad. Tempest Spine would be a favorite if not for the map.

    Never run the titan or abbot raids.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaviusMaximus View Post
    I also enjoy CiTW. Feels a bit more "epic" than the arena fights. I suspect that a lot of the negative feelings for that raid stem from the bugs that plagued it when it was released.

    The only thing that really bothers me about it is Lolth's sp drain. It's no fun when my melees lose their cocooning ability.
    I hate it because immersion wise, it's an absolute train wreck. Most of the game has a good story, but that raid is full of cliche's that "hack" DMs use. Powerful NPC in the background, stupid and completely worthless "Except this one time when she steals your thunder" NPC to save...

    Not to mention the dumb mechanics and fighting a goddess' stomach.

    There isn't one bit of this raid that is acceptable storytelling.

    There should be an option to just stab ana in the face in beyond the rift. Seriously. She's worthless. The worst kind of Mary Sue. Whoever developed her is as good of a storyteller as a bar of soap.

    Edit: It also depressed me that the first real "badass" female NPC we get is the worst type of stereotype. Way to keep the gender equality gap about the size of the grand canyon.

  5. #45
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakHar View Post
    Edit: It also depressed me that the first real "badass" female NPC we get is the worst type of stereotype. Way to keep the gender equality gap about the size of the grand canyon.
    So true, Turbine comes off as sexist don't they?

  6. #46
    The Hatchery zwiebelring's Avatar
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    Ah, my top reason to avoid this raid: every enemy, who forces to ignore auto attack on a melee when you have to react fast in a dynamic fight is not challenging, this enemy is cheating. Simple. You don't want us to exploit then don't preach water but drink wine, dev.s!

    Fix that problem and maybe that raid becomes more fun.

    p.s.: No, the boobies don't make up for it.
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  7. #47
    Community Member Connman's Avatar
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    As far as raids in explorer areas, I think VoD is just about right.

    It is a fairly short run to the raid.

    It has something to keep you busy while the group fills. I like the mechanic of having to open the raid up as it gives the few people that first join something to do in the meanwhile.

    The raid itself is a simple cage fight, this fits in well with having to spend the time to open up the actual raid. If the raid itself were like ToD then i would think there were too many pre-raid tasks to accomplish.

    As far as raids in general though, please can we just flag ONCE and get an option to zone directly to the raid!

    Thanks and have a great raiding day!
    Quote Originally Posted by Severlin View Post
    As an aside, our player concurrency numbers didn't show any kind of dip. Player numbers have been fairly consistent and healthy throughout the champions introduction. Sev~

  8. #48
    Community Member ThePrincipal's Avatar
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    I think the designers should separate game elements better.

    There are huge wild areas for people who like to explore. I don't see why they need to be combined with raids. DDO used to know this. ToD teleport to the cave is excellent design. Find it once, then after that zip to the start if you don't want to run. If you want to run, you still have the option.

    I love both house C raids, never do them because of the hour long jaunt out there. People always DC on the run out and we wind up waiting at the door for the raid to fill.

    Shroud, Chrono, Tod, FoT, TS, and Von are the best.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by patang01 View Post
    I don't do VON. Never got into it. It runs fairly often and it's an hour or so investment with the VON 5 and then followed by 6. I'm sure for a good and coordinated group it's no different then doing shroud.
    Best raid in the game, great XP, a couple pieces of still relevant loot Red scale is still great on the right build, and of course eSoS. and a couple niche loot (boots), can split up into teams and do inside 45 minutes some need for diverse builds, communication and coordination of at least basic levels all easy when 50 or 60% of the group knows what to do), fills fast every time, flagging is not confusing and quests are good to great (I run all of them for fun even VON3 as played out as that should be, best quest pack in the store) all that and a dragon fight that is usually a wipe on Elite at level but you get revenge in Epic.

    It's the number 1 run raid by my guess, so they obviously did something right.
    You guys filibustering a new mode have already succeeded in scaring the Dev's into not doing it the right way and re-scaling the existing settings, why in the world are you still filibustering? Drunk on your success? Schadenfreude? Spitefulness?

  10. #50
    Community Member susiedupfer's Avatar
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    Although CitW has some mechanics I could live without(escort the NPC), it is in the style of the raids I enjoy the very most. I do not enjoy the one room fights. I enjoy the challenge of having to coordinate efforts to achieve an end. And fighting different bosses to work your way up to the big boss fight makes me feel like we accomplished something. While no quest/raid is "perfect", this is definitely in the style I like the most.

    My favorite raids at level: Tempest's Spine, Chrono, VoN, Shroud, CitW.
    Orien: Zizie, Zeelee, Zeeny, Zeety, Zeleste, Zeeby
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  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaviusMaximus View Post
    I also enjoy CiTW. Feels a bit more "epic" than the arena fights. I suspect that a lot of the negative feelings for that raid stem from the bugs that plagued it when it was released.

    The only thing that really bothers me about it is Lolth's sp drain. It's no fun when my melees lose their cocooning ability.
    I think they made a mistake letting us "fight" her belly at all, it should have just been an all out mad scramble to get away from her, followed by the party managing to evade her and hide for brief moments to recover where she would relocate us after a minute, followed by another race to get away from her. Ana should have been imprisoned in something portable an orb or what have you, and the only objective to get her orb out of there, so if even one person made it to the end you won and Elminister raises everyone who's a ghost and you get chests based on how many people/soul stones make it, live = raid chest =stone = loot chest no stone = no chest at all (raise wouldn't have worked intside her domain). basically a protracted random pathway capture the flag mechanic where you're trying to get the flag back to your goal... dieing with the orb requires someone else picking it up and keeping it moving. challenges would have been jumping/platforming, twitch avoidance of damaging obstacles (like avoiding her legs popping up or getting flung off) leathal traps, and ambushes, all randomly placed.
    You guys filibustering a new mode have already succeeded in scaring the Dev's into not doing it the right way and re-scaling the existing settings, why in the world are you still filibustering? Drunk on your success? Schadenfreude? Spitefulness?

  12. #52
    Community Member deahamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    I think they made a mistake letting us "fight" her belly at all, it should have just been an all out mad scramble to get away from her, followed by the party managing to evade her and hide for brief moments to recover where she would relocate us after a minute, followed by another race to get away from her. Ana should have been imprisoned in something portable an orb or what have you, and the only objective to get her orb out of there, so if even one person made it to the end you won and Elminister raises everyone who's a ghost and you get chests based on how many people/soul stones make it, live = raid chest =stone = loot chest no stone = no chest at all (raise wouldn't have worked intside her domain). basically a protracted random pathway capture the flag mechanic where you're trying to get the flag back to your goal... dieing with the orb requires someone else picking it up and keeping it moving. challenges would have been jumping/platforming, twitch avoidance of damaging obstacles (like avoiding her legs popping up or getting flung off) leathal traps, and ambushes, all randomly placed.
    1. That sounds like a quest not a raid.
    2. Less Mario Brothers please, UGH.
    3. Her stupid hand is annoying enough as it is.

    All in all your suggestion sounds like just another run of the mill dungeon like they have been making with the "challenge" being insane number of ambushes everywhere and stupid "traps" (I don't call floating orbs of annoyance traps, blechs). It is not a raid.

    But then again CitW feels like a babysitting job and not a raid either. No, fighting some belly button does not feel like a raid.

    Also, to hell with rescuing a ditzy crazy lady. She can't fight worth a damn and suddenly has OP powers. My idea of epic and amazing is not rescuing the "saviour", it's BEING the saviour.
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  13. #53
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patang01 View Post
    Try the Cannith raids - first you run a wilderness to unlock a elevator that goes direct to the top floor, then you run a wilderness before you get to the actual raid. All in all you're looking at about an hour to get everyone together and coordinated before you do what's actually a short raid. Now imagine failing (which happens and did more so in the beginning). There's a reason why so few run it. It's a terrible design.

    Chrono - perfect. Back in the day it was a challenge. Now it's fairly mundane thanks to higher level folks running on high dps destinies. But it's still good. Easy to access, quick to fill and done in about 30 minutes or so.
    Shroud - takes about 30 minutes on Elite. Perfect.
    DQ - only bad part is to redo the first part each time. It would be even better if we flagged once and that's it. Sure - it makes it shorter but you're forced to do a regular group to flag and then coordinate the actual raid. Not the worst, but certainly clumsy.
    Citw - it used to take an hour, now it's shorter but the heartbreaking part is that comms are not automatic like in FoT. Terribly stupid. Greater tokens and heroic comms should be automatic.

    FoT is perfect. Easy to access, takes less then 30 minutes in a good group and always rewarding - like with comms (just as shroud is always rewarding). I don't do VON. Never got into it. It runs fairly often and it's an hour or so investment with the VON 5 and then followed by 6. I'm sure for a good and coordinated group it's no different then doing shroud.

    I sure hope that the next raid is done so we don't waste so damn much time coordinating groups in order to get there. If they do like they did with Cannith I'm probably not going to do it for long. It's just not worth blowing whatever little time I have on doing that stupid stuff. Hopefully Turbine learns that flag once mechanics are better and 30 minutes raids about right. Sure, the first few months it'll take longer as people learn the ropes, but if you're still banking an hour after so long because of other arbitrary time sinks it'll be done.
    Yeah the cannith raids are the worse...............you are all ready fed up with it before you even set foot in the raid. I actually don't mind them too much when we get in.......but its the whole getting there takes to damn long.

    I like FOT, chrono and shroud........von5-6 are not bad, I actually like von5 and 6. TOD is dead but at least we got a teleporter.
    Last edited by NaturalHazard; 12-19-2013 at 04:21 PM.

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