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  1. #1
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Default I originally called this a fail, but have found a use for it...

    Quote Originally Posted by DDOisFree View Post
    The tally of useless rogues or artis in my current levelling grind that I have now squelched has become 4. In just a few short days.

    ERMAHGAWD U ELITIST, WHY YOU SQUELCH DEM????

    Any of the following:

    1) Cannot find trap boxes
    2) Blows up trap boxes
    3) Think they must be a better trapper than someone with only 1 rogue level because more trapper levels is better
    4) But they still blow up boxes or cant find them
    5) One pure rogue had 10 points less DD than me. I politely asked him to upgrade his +5 DD item to a +10 or better from the AH. He didn't. Two trap boxes went boooooom!

    I've learned a lesson about trapping in DDO. If you want a trapper, ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS take and trust that awkwardly splashed 1-2 rogue or arti levels character with ANY other class combination that tells you 'I can trap'. You will never see a trap box blow up. NEVER!

    I rolled a 1. It had +53 DD. I succeed. Along comes pure rogue or pure arti. I don't even care what they roll, but they blow it up. /squelch.
    I originally labeled this post a /fail, but I recant that. I've been trying to think of how to describe the difference between an "Elite Player" (which the poster thinks he is) and an "Elitest." The above post has inspired me to find the proper wording.

    •An "Elite Player" can complete content with/in spite of the "rookie mistakes" often made by newbs, not blame failure upon them. "Elite Players" who pug can and often do help a struggling newby with free advice and bits of gear that would cost a pittance for an established Vet, but seem out of reach to said newby.

    •"Elitest" is a title often conferred on those who seem to be intolerant and snobbish "I'm too good for you" types, which the poster has exemplified in the last ~48 hours of forum hilarity.

    So thank you DDOisFree for providing such excellent examples of the difference between an "Elitest" and somebody who is truly "Elite."

    Now, before the army of "it's not my responsibility to hold noobs hands" shows up, let me add that I completely agree: it's nobody's obligation. However most of you who feel that way seem to accompany such statements with "that's why I don't pug" or "that's why I put (X) in the LFM notes to discourage them from joining" which I think is excellent! But Vets taking new players into pugs and then just booting them for not being top-of-their-game toons is a black eye on the community at large that just serves to discourage a healthy pug scene.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  2. #2
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    Can I please confirm that I am not an elitist?

    I simply play on heroic elite, and on epic elite. In groups.

    All of characters are built to be useful, and effective in HE and EE content. The only thing I ask / want from my LFMs is that if other players are joining me for heroic elite or epic elite, they are also sufficiently built to handle it.

    A character that dumped con, and only has 10 HP per level or less is not built for heroic elite or epic elite.

    Also when I'm finished with my final FVS soul life and I can be a pale master again, I'll be able to, if I want to, solo stuff on heroic elite and epic elite (I already was doing in my last two wizard lives).

    I don't enjoy playing a FVS, and don't really think blade barrier is that great. I find it very overrated, e.g. on stationary foes like skeleton archers in wiz king, that totally blocked be from pulling levers on elite (a wizard would have firewall and displacement for this).

    I just overall find divine casters a pita to play compared to my wizard lives or my sorc. I'm much better at the latter, and I'm actually a pretty crappy FVS player, but once my third life is done, I have no intention of playing divine classes again.
    All my posts are trolled by autocorrect and the edit button not working on smartphone browsers. That's also why I make multiple posts in a row instead of editing.

  3. #3
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    Also when a person didn't have enough HP, I wasn't rude to them. I told them politely that I didn't think they had enough HP to playing on elite and they should try playing normal first instead. And I'm not totally anal about the 20 hp per level rule, 15 hp per level is gold enough.

    But when I see a character that has dump started their con and gear to the point of 10 HP per level or less, they really aren't ready for heroic or epic elite. I know this because my first character was a con dumped drow wizard with only 240 HP at level 20. When the original single difficulty epic content came out, he was getting one shotted in every quest, and everyone kept telling me I didn't have enough HP. So I fixed that.

    In my second life I had 600 HP at level 20 and the amount of difference it made was indescribable. Also note that when I was a con dumped drow in my first life, we didn't have BB and I mostly played the game on normal difficulty. I advise new players to do the same rather than trying to dive straight into the deep end of elite difficulty when they are poorly built and still ungeared.
    All my posts are trolled by autocorrect and the edit button not working on smartphone browsers. That's also why I make multiple posts in a row instead of editing.

  4. #4
    Community Member RavenStormclaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDOisFree View Post
    Also when a person didn't have enough HP, I wasn't rude to them. I told them politely that I didn't think they had enough HP to playing on elite and they should try playing normal first instead. And I'm not totally anal about the 20 hp per level rule, 15 hp per level is gold enough.

    But when I see a character that has dump started their con and gear to the point of 10 HP per level or less, they really aren't ready for heroic or epic elite. I know this because my first character was a con dumped drow wizard with only 240 HP at level 20. When the original single difficulty epic content came out, he was getting one shotted in every quest, and everyone kept telling me I didn't have enough HP. So I fixed that.

    In my second life I had 600 HP at level 20 and the amount of difference it made was indescribable. Also note that when I was a con dumped drow in my first life, we didn't have BB and I mostly played the game on normal difficulty. I advise new players to do the same rather than trying to dive straight into the deep end of elite difficulty when they are poorly built and still ungeared.
    I wont, for the first time, disagree with you that having low hit points makes elite streaking difficult because it does. However, that's our fault as vets. We've become so entrenched with efficient Xp collection we won't run anything but elite. That's all the Lfms are for these days. New players need to run with vets to learn the game....see the dilemma? So you either suck it up and help the new players on elite or run some stuff on normal either either way ... You have to help the new players out.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by RavenStormclaw View Post
    I wont, for the first time, disagree with you that having low hit points makes elite streaking difficult because it does. However, that's our fault as vets. We've become so entrenched with efficient Xp collection we won't run anything but elite. That's all the Lfms are for these days. New players need to run with vets to learn the game....see the dilemma? So you either suck it up and help the new players on elite or run some stuff on normal either either way ... You have to help the new players out.
    So blame the developers, not me for the whole elite BB thing which segregated gets from new players. If I was running quests on normal, you'ld probably all be screaming at me for being a noob that cant handle hard or elite, so I wont do unless its XP farming.
    All my posts are trolled by autocorrect and the edit button not working on smartphone browsers. That's also why I make multiple posts in a row instead of editing.

  6. #6
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    *gets = vets. Because see my sig.
    All my posts are trolled by autocorrect and the edit button not working on smartphone browsers. That's also why I make multiple posts in a row instead of editing.

  7. #7
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    Now, before the army of "it's not my responsibility to hold noobs hands" shows up, let me add that I completely agree: it's nobody's obligation. However most of you who feel that way seem to accompany such statements with "that's why I don't pug" or "that's why I put (X) in the LFM notes to discourage them from joining" which I think is excellent! But Vets taking new players into pugs and then just booting them for not being top-of-their-game toons is a black eye on the community at large that just serves to discourage a healthy pug scene.
    Right - mean people discourage pugging, not game mechanics that actively discourage grouping. Makes sense.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    Right - mean people discourage pugging, not game mechanics that actively discourage grouping. Makes sense.
    Lol I didn't say mean people are the one and only sole thing that discourage pugging. I am however saying that they're a contributing factor - especially when it's a new players early experience. I've said my piece* about game mechanics that discourage pugging in many threads devoted to the subject - this however is not a thread about game mechanics

    *In short: I agree that yes there are many game mechanics that favor solo play/discourage pugging - game mechanics however are not the sole cause for a poor pug scene either.
    Last edited by PermaBanned; 12-17-2013 at 04:10 AM.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  9. #9
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    I originally labeled this post a /fail, but I recant that. I've been trying to think of how to describe the difference between an "Elite Player" (which the poster thinks he is) and an "Elitest." The above post has inspired me to find the proper wording.

    •An "Elite Player" can complete content with/in spite of the "rookie mistakes" often made by newbs, not blame failure upon them. "Elite Players" who pug can and often do help a struggling newby with free advice and bits of gear that would cost a pittance for an established Vet, but seem out of reach to said newby.

    •"Elitest" is a title often conferred on those who seem to be intolerant and snobbish "I'm too good for you" types, which the poster has exemplified in the last ~48 hours of forum hilarity.

    So thank you DDOisFree for providing such excellent examples of the difference between an "Elitest" and somebody who is truly "Elite."

    Now, before the army of "it's not my responsibility to hold noobs hands" shows up, let me add that I completely agree: it's nobody's obligation. However most of you who feel that way seem to accompany such statements with "that's why I don't pug" or "that's why I put (X) in the LFM notes to discourage them from joining" which I think is excellent! But Vets taking new players into pugs and then just booting them for not being top-of-their-game toons is a black eye on the community at large that just serves to discourage a healthy pug scene.
    I like pugging. I also enjoy being an artificer who gets all the traps.



    However, I feel bad for taking new players on sometimes. I out-kill them by such an enormous distance that they must not feel super good. When I try to just kill things enough so that others can finish them off and get the kill count, I get frustrated when they die as a result, and then start killing stuff again. When I was new, I'd write people 'wow! you do amazing dps! how?' and they'd like that - it's good to pass on knowledge and bad to shut people down.

    I am now rambling.

    Speaking to the earlier point, I have a guildie who refuses to get the best disabling/searching/open lock items and gets angry that his rogue can't trap. He only solos. We try to tell him 'you need best item per level' but he won't hear it.

  10. #10
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDOisFree View Post
    Can I please confirm that I am not an elitist?

    I simply play on heroic elite, and on epic elite. In groups.

    All of characters are built to be useful, and effective in HE and EE content. The only thing I ask / want from my LFMs is that if other players are joining me for heroic elite or epic elite, they are also sufficiently built to handle it.

    A character that dumped con, and only has 10 HP per level or less is not built for heroic elite or epic elite.

    Also when I'm finished with my final FVS soul life and I can be a pale master again, I'll be able to, if I want to, solo stuff on heroic elite and epic elite (I already was doing in my last two wizard lives).

    I don't enjoy playing a FVS, and don't really think blade barrier is that great. I find it very overrated, e.g. on stationary foes like skeleton archers in wiz king, that totally blocked be from pulling levers on elite (a wizard would have firewall and displacement for this).

    I just overall find divine casters a pita to play compared to my wizard lives or my sorc. I'm much better at the latter, and I'm actually a pretty crappy FVS player, but once my third life is done, I have no intention of playing divine classes again.
    You do know that no elitist will ever know they are one? Its a question of attitude, and most people think their attitude is justified, so they will not notice if they act in an elitist manner.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  11. #11
    Community Member Blackheartox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    You do know that no elitist will ever know they are one? Its a question of attitude, and most people think their attitude is justified, so they will not notice if they act in an elitist manner.
    Incorrect, when such a person groups with others he will be called elitist scumb... in a matter of couple quests..

    I know i was being called such /:

    Just for saying to someone in heroic elite pop (forgot name, was some random who died in every quest),
    pls stay out of room il solo with doggy /was in artie life..

    Usualy lately we put lfms with ee bb..
    I throw heals sometimes but rarely as i dont need to.
    Just fight in equake and you wont ever need to heal yourself, quite simple.

    But i personaly think im not acting elitist, i mean il explain my usual behavior routine.

    I play with a buddy or guildie and i enjoy talking about dcs and build capability more then actualy playing (im 3 lifes from triple completionist). So in our group i usualy spam pchat with dc calculations and plans and weird build idea i have. Simply because content is easy from heroic casual to ee, it all feels the same to me. And i enjoy finding nice combinations and discuss about builds and capability at endgame.

    So when you join our party you might think im a elitist, il complete the quest and if you were realy bad, i usualy wont say anything. Il keep it in guild chat or in tells. I wont tell you you are bad, i might even (if in good mood) advice you to fix smthn or ask a question like: Why do you have xx in your build? Then start a conversation in hope you fix your build to make it easier on yourself.

    There are specific cases where i mock people, couple ones that happend recently: a fot a melle pure lv 20 bladeforged sorc.

    I told in guild chat, guess what i got in party in fot? A melle pure sorc.
    Then i said, guess what was the only thing he wrote in pary chat?
    I linked a rezz pls from that person to guild chat.

    Or recently a dude who joined fot as ac wizzy in sentinel trying to wail wraiths, was out of sp after first dragon pair and /afk in corner while writing /sit on tto.. I made even a pscreen of him piking.

    So i do mock some people, does that make me elitist? I mean.. I cant stay friendly 24/7.
    Most people who grouped with me will either
    a) learn something
    b)teach me something (i still have many flaws)
    c)join any lfm i put up as they accept my attitude
    d)put me on squelch list

    I know im a scumb.. sometimes but its not only my fault.. There are people in this game that made me like this..
    Constant grouping with people who do the same mistake over and over and over again and inability to learn or develop tactics...
    They make you bit angry and kick someone from group just for being in same guild as most of those bad people.
    Reputation matters as well.
    Last edited by Blackheartox; 12-17-2013 at 06:20 AM.

  12. #12
    Community Member DogMania's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackheartox View Post
    d
    Or recently a dude who joined fot as ac wizzy in sentinel trying to wail wraiths, was out of sp after first dragon pair and /afk in corner while writing /sit on tto.. I made even a pscreen of him piking.
    Pleas tell me where this corner is as I would also like to be able to use it ROFL

  13. #13
    Community Member taurean430's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    I originally labeled this post a /fail, but I recant that. I've been trying to think of how to describe the difference between an "Elite Player" (which the poster thinks he is) and an "Elitest." The above post has inspired me to find the proper wording.

    •An "Elite Player" can complete content with/in spite of the "rookie mistakes" often made by newbs, not blame failure upon them. "Elite Players" who pug can and often do help a struggling newby with free advice and bits of gear that would cost a pittance for an established Vet, but seem out of reach to said newby.

    •"Elitest" is a title often conferred on those who seem to be intolerant and snobbish "I'm too good for you" types, which the poster has exemplified in the last ~48 hours of forum hilarity.

    So thank you DDOisFree for providing such excellent examples of the difference between an "Elitest" and somebody who is truly "Elite."

    Now, before the army of "it's not my responsibility to hold noobs hands" shows up, let me add that I completely agree: it's nobody's obligation. However most of you who feel that way seem to accompany such statements with "that's why I don't pug" or "that's why I put (X) in the LFM notes to discourage them from joining" which I think is excellent! But Vets taking new players into pugs and then just booting them for not being top-of-their-game toons is a black eye on the community at large that just serves to discourage a healthy pug scene.
    You missed a few noteworthy threads over his time here:

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...r-raise-you-if
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...-player-is-bad
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...eb-or-Fireball
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...r-the-end-game
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...DC-Pale-Master
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...have-enough-HP

    These are only a few of the ones that the forum search tools allow you to see going backwards a little bit. Also doesn't include the ones that got cubed.

    My favorite was the epic level wizard that couldn't break the mindsunder crystal. I laughed for days...

    Really though, it doesn't take much looking to realize that despite claiming otherwise he didn't drop out of the womb being an expert at DDO. Yet the propensity to make disparaging commentary regarding new or inexperienced players continues. Is there a term that adequately describes this type of behavior?

    Anyway, thought it best to point this out reading threads of late...
    Khyber: Evandus, Halfdeadd, Licoricewhip, Sawyn, Elkabongg, Brothanumsi, Soulbro, Cromix.
    And an army of gimp experiments!

  14. #14
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackheartox View Post
    Incorrect, when such a person groups with others he will be called elitist scumb... in a matter of couple quests..
    Just shortening the wall. What you said is pretty much what i meant. You dont think you are wrong when you act a certain way, and you necessarily are not wrong either. But others will get offended.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  15. #15
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    Just shortening the wall. What you said is pretty much what i meant. You dont think you are wrong when you act a certain way, and you necessarily are not wrong either. But others will get offended.
    Yes, nobody admits they are elitist.

    They simply invited everyone else to the group to explain how fail they are, which only sets up 5 people LOLing so hard they get the hiccups when the elitist dies after they have shouted down one or more others for dying.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by taurean430 View Post
    You missed a few noteworthy threads over his time here:

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...r-raise-you-if
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...-player-is-bad
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...eb-or-Fireball
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...r-the-end-game
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...DC-Pale-Master
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...have-enough-HP

    These are only a few of the ones that the forum search tools allow you to see going backwards a little bit. Also doesn't include the ones that got cubed.

    My favorite was the epic level wizard that couldn't break the mindsunder crystal. I laughed for days...

    Really though, it doesn't take much looking to realize that despite claiming otherwise he didn't drop out of the womb being an expert at DDO. Yet the propensity to make disparaging commentary regarding new or inexperienced players continues. Is there a term that adequately describes this type of behavior?

    Anyway, thought it best to point this out reading threads of late...
    Gold Thanks for making my day lol.

  17. #17
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taurean430 View Post
    You missed a few noteworthy threads over his time here:

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...r-raise-you-if
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...-player-is-bad
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...eb-or-Fireball
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...r-the-end-game
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...DC-Pale-Master
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...have-enough-HP

    These are only a few of the ones that the forum search tools allow you to see going backwards a little bit. Also doesn't include the ones that got cubed.

    My favorite was the epic level wizard that couldn't break the mindsunder crystal. I laughed for days...

    Really though, it doesn't take much looking to realize that despite claiming otherwise he didn't drop out of the womb being an expert at DDO. Yet the propensity to make disparaging commentary regarding new or inexperienced players continues. Is there a term that adequately describes this type of behavior?

    Anyway, thought it best to point this out reading threads of late...
    Did you see this one?

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...traps-disabled

    I find that one to be quite typical of elitist j____. On the one hand, makes disparaging commentary regarding new or inexperienced players (as you put it). On the other hand, thinks soloing wiz king on hard while being over level is an accomplishment...
    Last edited by Lonnbeimnech; 12-17-2013 at 07:30 AM.

  18. #18
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    It's pretty simple... If you have "no gimps" in your LFM, you're just broadcasting to the world that you suck at this game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    Right - mean people discourage pugging, not game mechanics that actively discourage grouping. Makes sense.
    Heh, and I always thought it was common sense that discouraged pugging.

  20. #20
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    It's pretty simple... If you have "no gimps" in your LFM, you're just broadcasting to the world that you suck at this game.
    Additionally, that particular LFM seems to be a magnet for gimps, so it's a double whammy.
    No one in the world ever gets what they want
    And that is beautiful
    Everybody dies frustrated and sad
    And that is beautiful

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