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  1. #1
    2014 DDO Players Council ishr's Avatar
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    Default Will we ever see Draconic Incarnation revisited?

    This destiny is almost completely ignored since early MOTU release, owing largely to the vastly superior shiradi DPS and magister DC's. It's capstone is almost never used in practice as well. Is there any chance it will be revisited?

  2. #2
    2016 DDO Players Council kinggartk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ishr View Post
    This destiny is almost completely ignored since early MOTU release, owing largely to the vastly superior shiradi DPS and magister DC's. It's capstone is almost never used in practice as well. Is there any chance it will be revisited?
    For elemntal burst and dragons breath? No this ED is not ignored...maybe not as popular as shiradi, but not ignored.

  3. #3
    2016 DDO Players Council kinggartk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ishr View Post
    This destiny is almost completely ignored since early MOTU release, owing largely to the vastly superior shiradi DPS and magister DC's. It's capstone is almost never used in practice as well. Is there any chance it will be revisited?


    OH...and Shiradi DPS is not superior to Draconic....it's just that the No save CC from Shiradi trumps DI in EE. In fact, I would say Draconic incarnation is near tops DPS wise among ED's.

  4. #4
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    Draconic is the highest DPS caster ED, IF you have the evocation DCs to make it work.

    Magister is great for high DC necro, enchant, or illusion spashed Wizards.

    Shiradi is for anyone playing a caster that either doesn't want to, or still hasn't managed to get sufficient DCs for epic quests, because in all honesty, its not easy to manage doing so.
    All my posts are trolled by autocorrect and the edit button not working on smartphone browsers. That's also why I make multiple posts in a row instead of editing.

  5. #5
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    For those defending DI, you've clearly not seen what Shiradi casters can do.

    A DI caster walks into a room of EE mobs, throws a Greater Shout or Mass Hold (targetting the mobs' weaker save) to keep mobs grouped up, then commences DPSing with Energy Burst - Dragon Breath - Meteor Swarm or other spells, and precasts Vortex on bigger fights. Usually they get mobs down to 40-60% HP with this rotation with some fraction of the mobs dying to crits, and then they have to kite or die. Then, they get two-thirds of the way to the shrine and are OOM.

    A Shiradi caster walks into the same room, casts Meteor Swarm, Ice Storm and Chain Missiles all without metamagic, and the whole room is dead, except for one lucky mob that makes a clutch save or two. Run to next room, repeat. Get to shrine at 80% SP.


    DI suffers from the fact that it doesn't scale well with gear the way Shiradi does, and it is seriously hammered by monster stat escalation in a way that Shiradi isn't. Against higher statted mobs, DI does less damage per cast (due to higher mob Reflex saves), can cast less spells per minute (due to having to kite rather than facetank), and runs out of SP earlier (due to mob HP being higher). Shiradi does almost full damage to mobs with insane reflex saves, has incidental CC that lowers the need to kite, and just never runs out of SP.


    I know DI well - I led the first completion of EE Fall of Truth (on the test server) in the destiny, but that was on a spellsinger that was using it as a burst DPS source on a healing-specced toon. It was an excellent destiny up until Epic Gianthold monster stat inflation pushed it behind the curve.


    What DI needs:

    - Remove the save and 5/day limit from Dragon Breath; keep the 60s cooldown
    - Add some ability to cast more maximized spells (a good Efficient Metamagic - Maximize effect and/or a good +% SP effect)
    - A useful source of no save damage (doesn't need to be excellent, just good enough to warrant using, such as a no-meta Polar Ray/BDB SLA).
    I don't have a zerging problem.

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  6. #6
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    - Remove the save and 5/day limit from Dragon Breath; keep the 60s cooldown
    Or, change save to Fort. Still remove the limit.
    - Add some ability to cast more maximized spells (a good Efficient Metamagic - Maximize effect and/or a good +% SP effect)
    - A useful source of no save damage (doesn't need to be excellent, just good enough to warrant using, such as a no-meta Polar Ray/BDB SLA).
    Personally, I'd rather see they address both via a multiplicative instead of additive spell power boost on the draconic heritage side.

    Also, increase the breath augmentation rate and the effects. Sleep is good, slow is meh. 2d8 strength damage is laughable.

    You could make this 50% and it wouldn't be too strong. And change the STR damage to something that works past casual/normal. Make it 25% chance to sleep. 50% chance for paralysis. 15% chance for elemental detonation (instead of STR daamge). 100% chance for slow.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  7. #7
    2016 DDO Players Council kinggartk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    For those defending DI, you've clearly not seen what Shiradi casters can do.

    A DI caster walks into a room of EE mobs, throws a Greater Shout or Mass Hold (targetting the mobs' weaker save) to keep mobs grouped up, then commences DPSing with Energy Burst - Dragon Breath - Meteor Swarm or other spells, and precasts Vortex on bigger fights. Usually they get mobs down to 40-60% HP with this rotation with some fraction of the mobs dying to crits, and then they have to kite or die. Then, they get two-thirds of the way to the shrine and are OOM.

    A Shiradi caster walks into the same room, casts Meteor Swarm, Ice Storm and Chain Missiles all without metamagic, and the whole room is dead, except for one lucky mob that makes a clutch save or two. Run to next room, repeat. Get to shrine at 80% SP.


    DI suffers from the fact that it doesn't scale well with gear the way Shiradi does, and it is seriously hammered by monster stat escalation in a way that Shiradi isn't. Against higher statted mobs, DI does less damage per cast (due to higher mob Reflex saves), can cast less spells per minute (due to having to kite rather than facetank), and runs out of SP earlier (due to mob HP being higher). Shiradi does almost full damage to mobs with insane reflex saves, has incidental CC that lowers the need to kite, and just never runs out of SP.


    I know DI well - I led the first completion of EE Fall of Truth (on the test server) in the destiny, but that was on a spellsinger that was using it as a burst DPS source on a healing-specced toon. It was an excellent destiny up until Epic Gianthold monster stat inflation pushed it behind the curve.


    What DI needs:

    - Remove the save and 5/day limit from Dragon Breath; keep the 60s cooldown
    - Add some ability to cast more maximized spells (a good Efficient Metamagic - Maximize effect and/or a good +% SP effect)
    - A useful source of no save damage (doesn't need to be excellent, just good enough to warrant using, such as a no-meta Polar Ray/BDB SLA).
    I stand by my statement that DI wins hands down in raw DPS. I have played a shiradi caster, and I don't discount their utility. My problem is that to be effective in EE, you need these gimmicky shiradi builds with unimaginatve no save cc's to be successful. If Turbine added DC's to the Shiradi Procs, then Shiradi would fall far behind DI.

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