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  1. #61
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post

    - What's your favorite named loot upgrade system, and why?
    Greensteel loot. For two reasons:

    1- It is versatile and players can tailor gear and item effects to suit their build, style of play, and creativity.

    2- Almost every ingredient is completely unbound. This allows players to trade freely with other players and does not require one to run something hundreds of times to be able to craft some desired gear. If I pull a lot of ingredient A but need ingredient B, I can trade or transact with other players to get ingredient B and vice versa.


    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    - Name a desired named item that felt like the right difficulty to acquire. Name one that felt too hard.*
    Lucid dreams and the other Mindsunder loot seems like the right difficulty. Also the highroad and king's forest quest items seem like the right difficulty.

    The old Rube Goldberg epics (all the shard/seal/scroll stuff) have drop rates so low to the point that it just isn't worth the time to worry about them.


    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    - What weapon types / class equipment do you feel are due or overdue for some named loot love?
    Pet Collars. It would be nice to have some named collars for pets at various levels.

    Mauls. There are tons of great axes, falchions, two-handed swords, but no really impressive mauls that I can think of.


    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    *Random number disclaimer: sadly, bad luck is bad luck. Random is a fickle goddess, and if she has singled you out personally for Loot Denial, you have our sympathy, but there's only so much we can do. Though we heard ceremonial rain-dances can help.
    This is why making crafting items, like greensteel, 100% unbound works so well. Being able to trade with other players means I'm not completely screwed just because I have a run of bad luck since I might pick up some items other players want and we can trade.

  2. #62
    Community Member Snapdragoon's Avatar
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    progression is the key to getting the gear you want.

    random drop chance is random, sometimes it takes a lucky first run, other run hundreds of times and still no luck.

    the thing that was so great about greensteel, and even cannith crafting. is the fact that every time you ran it you made progress to your item. the more often you ran it, the faster you would complete your item. then alchemical came out, but that was just a poor time to implement a spiritual successor to greensteel because soon after the MOTU expansion hit and rendered most of the gear worthless except for some select gear. same for the cannith challenges really, decent gear at what was the endgame at the time, released right before expansion.

    good systems
    alchemical - every run makes progress (though restricting drops by diff is not welcome)
    greensteel - every run makes progress, increase diff increases the amount of progress made (PERFECT SYSTEM)
    fall of truth - comms are progress in the new gear, every run gets comms, more drop on higher diff, perfect.

    now that you know what system works, you can create gear that works

    greensteel is praised because it covers nearly EVERY weapon and item slot available in the game, anyone can probably find a piece of greensteel gear for something. add to that some small but unique bonuses (the hp and sp items) that can stay relevant but not be required. add to that the customization that came with GS not only being able to go in any slot or weapon but picking the effects on the items and your all set.


    TLDR
    system needs to make progress on every run. and gear needs to not so much be op, as it needs to stay relevant and be slightly future proofed with nice unique bonuses that can be good, but not be required. customization is a bonus, an example of decent try would be twilight: it starts decent, then you can customize it to the particular elements of magic you use, instead of say slapping combustion on it then requiring every fire savant to need it :P.

    ALSO: base item BOUND TO CHARACTER, upgrade items BOUND TO ACCOUNT its not hard.

    good grind: fall of truth, white/black/blue dragon scale

    bad grind: esos, sands, von, anything with tiny random percent drops really.

  3. #63
    Hero, Mo Bro H'ro, & MB Super-H'ro ComicRelief's Avatar
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    Default Named Loot Should Be "More" than What Random Loot is

    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    - What's your favorite named loot upgrade system, and why?
    - Name a desired named item that felt like the right difficulty to acquire. Name one that felt too hard.*
    - What weapon types / class equipment do you feel are due or overdue for some named loot love?
    Before getting into the above, let me first explain my post tile. Prior to the introduction of augment slot system, there were many named loot itmes that were the same as random loot. For instance: Bllodknuckle's Loincloth is just a 25% fortification belt, Grundok's Boots are just Jump +1 boots, Sword of Pain is just a +1 acid touch shortsword, etc. - nothing special or even different from some random loot. I remember picking up a named weapon (I forget which, now, but it was low-level) that was just a +1 'element' touch weapon and thinking, "Wow - nothing special about this named item." (seeing as how I just sold several random weapons with the exact same stats on it).

    At least now with the augment system many of the named items also have at least one slot (Bloodknuckle's Loincloth and Grundok's Boots, for example) which helps, but it's still possible to get random loot with augments, so still nothing "special" about them. Now, granted, the named loot may have lower MLs - and that's good - but I think all named loot should have that "something" special that you normally can't get from random loot.

    For example, Miasma's Fang is not just a +1 'deception' dagger (with an augment slot), but it also has Fortification Save +1. For an ML2 item, that nice - it has the little 'extra' (fort save) that you would not normally see in random loot.

    And that's basically what I mean - named loot should not just be some "random" loot item with a name, but something "more" (doesn't have to be much, just "more" or "different" from random loot).

    OK, on with answering the above:

    Favorite Named Loot Upgrade System: You mean other than epic versions of certain named loot and the "stone of change" minor upgrades (and excluding "event/challange" named loot), there are systems to upgrade named loot? What am I missing?

    Named Loot with Appropriate difficulty to obtain: Muckbane.
    Named Loot with that's too difficult: Muck's Doom; Sun Blade*

    Weapon Types/Class due for Named Loot Love: Um...that's a tough one. Probably regular bows (perhaps specifically shortbows? but also longbows). "Hand-and-a-half" swords (gotta be careful with the "B" word - young eyes could be watching). Longsword. Warhammer.


    *Speaking of named loot, I would LOVE to see the Sun Blade be "epicifiable" (I even have some ideas for it). And, no, the Star of Day is NOT an epic version of the Sun Blade.
    "...At least it tells us they understand our language; they're just not willing to speak to us in it. -Who knew they were French?"

  4. #64

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    - What's your favorite named loot upgrade system, and why?
    Greensteel. One of the best and most flexible system. It only relies on your needs and the amount of possible permutations. You control it plus you can also trade the mats. I wish the shards were BTA since I have a glut of shards on some guys and few on my later toons. Time is time run; BTC is always such a arbitrary feature and especially on mats. So please consider a Greensteel 2 with more options and perhaps even tier 3-4 augment slots for even more flexibility. And crafting. Another system that allows me to create and control what I want. More recipes please and the ability to craft augment slots and guild slots onto items. With a wider amount of crafting options we can either trade or just make that hard to fit item for those levels that you need them.

    - Name a desired named item that felt like the right difficulty to acquire. Name one that felt too hard.*
    Greensteel. I'm serious. It's just a matter of time. There are no better system then greensteel. Old epic was okay, but there was always a fickle glut of one specific item that dropped in one specific chest, like a seal or shard. Like Web of Chaos. I mean seriously - I can't pull a complete set for epic silver bow, silver cross bow and envenomed blade for the life of me. I have enough shards, seals and scrolls for everything else (strike that, I FINALLY pulled a shard for the double crossbow so I have ONE of those). So the old epic system was okay, but it should've had a way to replace one of the pieces with something else. Like cruching 4 of whatever epic shards for the one you need. Or something like that. In other words, similar to greensteel that it's just a matter of time before you have it. I don't mind grinding - but the incremental reward towards your goal always feels more rewarding.

    - What weapon types / class equipment do you feel are due or overdue for some named loot love?
    Honestly - rune arms. Upper end. But something where the AOE rune arms are useful. Make them interesting. Something that complement the arti. Like a spell power specific rune arm with lore and spell power for something. Even better; a crafting system for rune arms. Make your own - pick element, how the element works, add effects and even augment and you can settle for low end all the way up to high end. Power and features decide ML.

  5. #65
    Community Member Satyriasys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    - What's your favorite named loot upgrade system, and why?
    While I enjoy Greensteel because of the customization available, the system itself is too complex with so many different ingredient types. We have Shavarath Stones, Vale ingredients, crafted Vale ingredients, Shroud ingredients, Shroud crafted ingredients, power cells, shards. Way too many items involved in the process.

    The Caught in the Web weapons on the other hand is a very simple system where I only need to combine my item with commendations. Far more straight forward, but lacks the customization of Greensteel. A hybrid of these 2 systems would be a good goal.

    The Dragontouched Armor deserves a mention also. While the randomness of the runes becomes a tedious grind, I love the ability to choose between many different affects for each of the 3 tiers. The runes themselves need a major overhaul as many of them are redundant and underpowered.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    - Name a desired named item that felt like the right difficulty to acquire. Name one that felt too hard.*
    Right - Cannith Challenge items. I am working towards crafting an item and I know exactly how long it will take me. I can grind for the ingredients at my own pace without any randomness or rarity of drops being a concern. The amount of ingredients required seems to be a fair amount. I can also solo farm for these which in a underpopulated game is unfortunately becoming increasingly important.

    Wrong - The Scroll, Seal, Shard system by a mile. These items are so insanely difficult to attain I don't even bother trying for them. I have been playing this game for years and have only ever been able to make a handful of these items. The amount of luck required to find the 4 items is staggering. I could even get behind this system when level 20 was cap because grinding for these items was our endgame and the reason to cap. Now that we are level 20 for no more than an afternoon it seems unfair that these level 20 items should remain so difficult to attain. It makes no sense, what if level 8 items had the same difficulty for no apparent reason? Please just make the old epics drop completed like the new ones do or lower the ingredients to just one type.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    - What weapon types / class equipment do you feel are due or overdue for some named loot love?
    Runearms!
    1 - Lack of late game Runearms. The last decent Runearm we get is level 19. The ones introduced in Tor are really a joke.
    2 - Most of the shots are worthless. The DCs are way too low making only the seeking shots (acid and force) viable. This further limits our options to only 2 varieties.
    3 - They are ugly and noisy. Please see this post for further details.
    Join Date: Nov 2009

  6. #66
    Community Member Lauf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    - What's your favorite named loot upgrade system, and why?
    I would have to go with the cauldron of Sora-Katra, and the Shroud/ToD
    Sora-Katra because you needed to run the different quests in the chains for different marks, it provided incentive for running optionals, and you had some say in what the end product would be.
    another good thing about it was that if you had bad luck pulling your desired marks, it wasn't an endless grind trying to get one, because there was always a good chance to get them at the end of the chain as well.

    the named items also had a set bonus, and some cool effects (who doesn't like having a true-seeing +6 wis item?). most notably these were named items that didn't short-change you (i.e. give you a +4/5 stat item in a level where you should be using +6s) even back when most named items did.
    classic opposite example:
    http://ddowiki.com/page/Choker_of_the_Silver_Tongue
    anyone slotting a stat, would want/need that stat to be maxed, even if it means less fluff around it. if the stat isn't maxed (in this case, +6) then you'll need to slot it again in an additional spot, which raises the question why bother with the named item to begin with? random loot would be better. <--- here's the problem with named loot.


    as to why I named the shroud/ToD, first of all the flexibility, second of all the fact that materials could be reused between packs.
    I wouldn't go as far as to say it's the best upgrading system out there, I think it could be recreated with less materials to be used, but at the moment the two reasons I've named set it apart from most existing upgrade systems. (note I am referring to the upgrade SYSTEM, as the named loot from ToD is far from being a favorite of mine)

    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    - Name a desired named item that felt like the right difficulty to acquire. Name one that felt too hard.*
    again I go back to the Sora-Kell set, if you ran the chain 4-8 times you should easily have enough to create and upgrade any named item, and hopefully enough to create the set. this I feel is a reasonable amount of questing through a pack to guarantee you get and upgrade an item you are after (note-running the chain, not a quest).
    one that felt too hard? anything requiring a shard from the tide turns, anything that drops from a random chest in Prison of the Planes, anything that drops from a 3bc rare... I'll stop here but honestly I could go on and on

    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    - What weapon types / class equipment do you feel are due or overdue for some named loot love?
    Warhammers.
    at the moment if you want to build a character that dual-wields warhammers (there are a couple of nice ones at the epic levels) there really isn't a named one to be found on your way to 23. anywhere.
    Last edited by Lauf; 12-11-2013 at 06:49 PM.

  7. #67
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post

    - What's your favorite named loot upgrade system, and why?
    None of them make me especially happy, to be honest. The old Scroll, Seal, Shard system worked okay in some ways, and terribly in others. I think the Desert would have worked well, if the loot tables hadn't been so watered down with around 50 items. The upside of the S/S/S system was that you had to work toward acquiring an item, and the drop rates for each individual piece could be higher than, for say Epic Elite versions of the current good named loot, without thrusting too many items into people's hands. It also was a cumulative system, where you would acquire more parts to complete more items as a function of hunting for whatever you wanted. But, it could also be very frustrating, and promotes some weird farming habits (slaying respawning troglodytes in the Snake hall of ADQ1, super-zerging the 3 optional chests in ADQ1, over and over and over). Another problem with this system, was that sometimes acquiring the heroic base item to upgrade is sometimes more difficult than acquiring the parts to upgrade it due to poor drop rates.

    I liked the idea of the Cannith challenges upgrade system--not the running more challenges to improve the item through steps 1, 2 and 3, but the ability to use Cannith crafting to apply shards to the items you've made. If Cannith crafting had kept up with the augment slots sytem in terms of available item effects, and had the epic items from the challenges retained the "Craftable" designation, instead of gaining augment slots, that would have been pretty cool.

    Augments are okay, but they're too expensive (20 Tokens of the Twelve; 9/9/9 Restored GH Relics + a Commendation of Heroism are kind of steep), too hard to acquire (the costs for the lower level turn-in augments are too high for randomly generated collectibles), and they're missing too many effects, and too strongly weighted toward Blue and Colorless augments for most items. The other big problem with Augments is that we cannot purchase Jeweler's Toolkits in-game, and they are seriously over-priced in the DDO store, so we're left with a choice between spending much too much TP to unslot our items, or regrind the pieces necessary to purchase a new augment, and that seriously exacerbates the too-high cost of the augments themselves.

    I think the Normal, Hard, Elite item system is okay, but fails in that you cannot upgrade a lowered-tiered item to a higher tier. If I run a quest on Epic Hard and pull the item I want, and then run the same quest on Epic Elite 10 times, and the item doesn't fall, I haven't really been rewarded for taking on the tougher content, and if I do pull the EE version, now I have a Bound to Character item that is semi-useless. I'd have liked to see these all be upgradeable. Maybe by including an automatic drop token in Hard and Elite quests that can be combined in an altar with a named item from that quest to upgrade it? I'd say, Normal items can be upgraded to hard with 5 Hard tokens, or 2 Elite Tokens, and can be upgraded from Hard to Elite with 5 Elite tokens. The tokens would drop in the end chest of the quest if the item can be acquired from that chest or as an end reward, or in the chest that the item drops in if it only appears in a particular chest.

    Okay...actually answering the quest:

    My favorite upgrade system is greensteel (and Tower of Despair rings). It grants a lot of flexibility and variety, has both bound and unbound ingredients, can be rewarding even for characters that haven't been able to complete the raid (you can make tier 1 greensteel just by completing part 1 or 2 of Shroud, tier 2 greensteel by completing part 3, and can make any of them with some luck by running Devil Assault, Shavaraht quests, and Tower of Despair), and has several absolutely unique effects (unique for the time, and still without replication even 11 levels and 6 years later). It had something for everyone: casters, melees, archers, throwers, DPS brutes, tanks, stealthy characters, skill monkeys, UMD splashers, FotM builds, pure builds, flavor builds, wonky builds. It was generic enough that it continues to be useful to every class and build years and levels later, and even though some of the effects are outmoded now in level 20+ content, it's still useful from 12-20 (and a lot of it is still good even to level 28).

    It also two mechanics build-in to make continuing to run The Shroud after you've acquired a single item still worthwhile: first, it yields both weapons and accessories/jewelery, so it covers a lot of needs, and is desirable to have both a weapon and equipment, and second, you cannot equip a second piece of gear unless you acquire an auto-drop item from a 20th completion, which competed with (at the time) the best tomes available in the game. So, even with trade-able loot, and the possibility of getting lucky and front-loading your Shard acquisition, you would still have incentive to run the raid to 20, 40, 60 completions.

    The only thing missing from greensteel was the ability to deconstruct things you'd made, to adjust to a changing metagame, which was ostensibly to be addressed with Yellow Dopant, but the stuff has such a ridiculously low drop rate that it may as well not even exist--it's never on the Auction House (and the few times I did see it, it was selling for an enormous sum).

    I expect that greensteel is going to be the far and away majority favorite here.
    - Name a desired named item that felt like the right difficulty to acquire.
    Just about every item from The Reaver's Fate (except Madstone Boots), A Vision of Destruction, and Hound of Xoriat were at about the right difficulty level and drop rate--you had a good chance of acquiring the item you wanted in under 20 runs, and an excellent chance of getting it on your 20th completion list.

    The Red Fens epic items (aside from the Gloves and Bracers of the Claw) were about the right amount of difficulty/grind to acquire, excepting the base item for the Shatterbow.
    Name one that felt too hard.*
    The Helm of the Red Dragon, the Shard of the Sword of Shadows, the Shard of the Red Dragon (in over 200 runs, I've only seen the first three times, the second three or four times, and the last once, and never under my name, and only a couple of times up for roll).

    Named items with randomly-generated portions; finding a +2 Str, +10 Stunning Seal of Dun'Robar ring, finding a +2 Con, +10 Trip Seal of Dun'Robar. Finding a +3 Insightful Helm of whichever Dragon, +3 Insightful Int or Wis Intricate Field Optics. Taking a low drop rate item, sticking it in a tough to hit chest (the dragons are challenging on EH unless you have a good party, and very hard on EE even with a good group--mind you, I've completed them, for the most part, with about a 90% success rate, but that requires assembling a decent group, which may involve a bit of waiting, and sometimes expending a lot of resources), and then also lowering the drop rate even further by randomizing elements of the item sucks. Look at the trades forums: the most commonly sought after items are the ones with random abilities, where people are looking for particular permutations of these.

    I'd prefer to see variably programmable items--say, Intricate Field Optics drops with its current stats, but instead of the +8 or +3 stat, it has "Mutability" in that place. Then you click on the item and get a Barter UI pop-up wherein you may select which of the variants you want. The choice gets locked-in, and now you're happy that you pulled the item.
    What weapon types / class equipment do you feel are due or overdue for some named loot love?
    DOCENTS!!!!!!!!!!!! Docents are notoriously short-changed; it seems like every quest pack introduces a new light, medium and heavy armor, a new robe and outfit, and maybe one docent (or no docents). Many docents also appear to be simple variants on older named docents, with many having similar stats, and very few docents match the better named armors of any type, especially for casters. It has been proposed in the past that we should be able to take a named armor, stick it in a Stone of Change, and convert it into a docent. That would be something seriously worth considering. At least going forward. That, or duplicate most armors made available in docent form. For an easy comparison, look at the Spider-spun Caparison, Spider-Silk Robes, Hide of Goristro, Terroweb Chitin Breastplate, Embrace of the Spider Queen, and the Stone Heart and Ancient Gemstone.

    Khopeshes need a new named item or two.

    I'd say the biggest problem with named loot in this regard is that it's too easy for a quest, raid, or quest pack to completely leave out certain classes or builds. Look at Caught In the Web: clerics and favored souls gain very little from the raid unless they are specced for melee/ranged combat, or do a lot of nuking with Evocation spells. Part of this is due to our never getting a Divine version of Arcane Augmentation. Casters who use DC-based non-Evocation, non-Enchantment spells were similarly left out. Anyone with an Epic Sword of Shadows. Unarmed monks have better options than the Antipode. Then, on top of that, if you run the raid and get the item you wanted, there is little reason to run it again, especially with Commendations of Heroism being easier to acquire from Fall of Truth (and now the Raider's Reward Boxes).

    In older content, we got the Divine Vengeance sword, which was supposed to be great for paladins, but was only useful to S&B and TWF paladins (and even then not very)--THF paladins were left in the cold, because there was no two-handed version of the weapon. One should be able to combine two of the same 1-handed weapon into a single two-handed weapon in some instances.
    Useful links: A Guide to Using a Gamepad w/ DDO / All Caster Shroud, Hard Shroud, VoD, ToD Einhander, Elochka, Ferrumrym, Ferrumdermis, Ferrumshot, Ferrumblood, Ferrumender, Ferrumshadow, Ferrumschtik All proud officers of The Loreseekers. Except Bruucelee, he's a Sentinel!

  8. #68
    Community Member Grosbeak07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    Friends, forumites, adventurers, lend me your ears. I come not to tell about Named Loot, but to ask about it. Really, we want your feedback on named items in DDO. This is the promised follow-up to my introductory post, where I asked you all to share your thoughts on random items.

    Let me give a quick report on the prior thread: you guys gave us a lot of great feedback, and a couple major themes came out, all of which we are actively digesting. One of those themes was concern about old named items (especially raid items) being out-powered by new, high level random items. We heard ya, and we're looking at solutions and scheduling now. So there's no need to talk about that today.

    Today, we want to focus more squarely on named loot itself. Please share your thoughts on these topics. The tapes are rolling! And thanks!

    - What's your favorite named loot upgrade system, and why?
    - Name a desired named item that felt like the right difficulty to acquire. Name one that felt too hard.*
    - What weapon types / class equipment do you feel are due or overdue for some named loot love?



    *Random number disclaimer: sadly, bad luck is bad luck. Random is a fickle goddess, and if she has singled you out personally for Loot Denial, you have our sympathy, but there's only so much we can do. Though we heard ceremonial rain-dances can help.

    1. Honestly, the Shroud. As much as I may loath the Raid now, there was "something for everyone". You could make an offensive weapon, defensive weapon, something to boost skills etc. Wish it had been extended to shields and armor.

    2. Reaver Items I always felt had a good drop rate, you might get lucky and get in a few runs, but something along 10 to 15 runs isn't bad. Which is also about the length it took to make your first greensteel in shroud. With the Shroud, you felt like you made progress every run.

    2B. What felt too hard? LoB and ToD (tie). Lord of Blades was just confusing and not all that different from shroud. Given how little the raid was run due to the annoying open areas and well, making items from that was near impossible unless you had a guild dedicated to doing it. ToD had the problem of too many rings, watering down the loot tables. Given that maybe 1-2 rings *might* drop and you had a chance at 15 different rings, meant it was a long time before you even saw the ring you were looking for. And if you were looking for it, so was 20 other people. Unless you got super lucky and it dropped to you, most of the time you were out of luck. Which was a bummer.

    3. Bludgeoning weapons like maces, morning stars, hammers etc. also Armor and accessories.
    Magical Rings are well... magical. - Gandalf

  9. #69
    Community Member Nightmanis's Avatar
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    - What's your favorite named loot upgrade system, and why?
    Both the old Shard/Seal/Scroll system and the Heroic comms. If you could somehow combine the 2 (and obviously make it not as difficult to acquire as the Von/Sands gear) then I would be just absolutely giddy.

    On a different note, my least favourite system is the whole EN/EH/EE setup.

    - Name a desired named item that felt like the right difficulty to acquire. Name one that felt too hard.
    Before Epics were changed so you could run them more than once a day, absolutely EVERYTHING from the House D chain. Maybe even if you had reduced everything by .5% on the drop rates, it would have still been wonderful. Then when you went into some other raids (Von actually comes to mind here) you could get the most powerful gear in the game, and it was exceedingly difficult. Hell, the ESOS is still the overall #1 weapon in the game, but Von6 has become such a cakewalk to complete. I liked it better when the breath actually could have wiped a party in one pass, now I just evade it. (That being said, maybe up the save DC by 5 points and quintuple the damage. This might just make only pally splashed characters play it, though...)

    - What weapon types / class equipment do you feel are due or overdue for some named loot love?
    I would like a staff, one that is on par with Sireth (make it useful, more than just straight damage) that is just a plain stick. Nothing fancy, just a plain stick like Nat Gann's. I do think we've gotten plenty enough axe love for now, and honestly when it comes to range it's Pinion, and other bows (mostly GS) until you are the right level for Pinion.

    Maybe try for a shield that is actually centered around offense, instead of just defense (Reverberate 10% of damage back into the opponent). Also, make a tower shield that actually looks like a tower shield (Skyvault and the Alchemical are the only ones in the game that actually look the part) instead of just making a large shield and giving it the title. I want to walk around with a Vault door, not a slightly enlarged saucer sled. People did enjoy this form of play, and it would be nice if some gear was given to help them.

    Casting items could get some love, giving different effects totally unique to the item. This would be so much nicer than the "Just get something off the AH" setup we have now.

    Also, set bonuses. Yes currently we have the Dragon armours, and the Planar sets. But I remember when having the Chrono was considered on top of the top end of gear. It was so cool how you actually had 5 different items, and any 3 would give you a certain bonus while all 5 would give you an even better one. I would just absolutely love to see this idea return to the game, and maybe even give it it's own simpler version of the S/S/S system (maybe just have you get the items from flagging quests, combined give a small bonus yet the end quest/raid drops the "Missing Piece" for that item which increases the bonus while also upgrading the item.

  10. #70
    Hopeless Romantic dunklezhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post

    - What's your favorite named loot upgrade system, and why?
    - Name a desired named item that felt like the right difficulty to acquire. Name one that felt too hard.*
    - What weapon types / class equipment do you feel are due or overdue for some named loot love?


    A bit of a moot point. Named loot mostly all requires the favour of the RNG, so I don't bother caring unless something nice drops randomly, most of the time. Generally, it isn't any use for the character I'm on when it does, so generally just give it away. I tend to rely on lootgen - it's often as good, and it's no more random, but you do get stuff useful to you quite regularly. Not necessarily an upgrade, but worth looking at twice. Can't say the same for named loot that drops for me.

    Anyway, since we're being asked to think about it:

    -I like the system where you simply run on elite and get better loot. As a casual player, that is what I want. I want simple - not 'easy' quests, but I don't want to have to play a loot minigame. I'm not interested, it turns me off. I know I'm in a miniority and game theory says ignore this kind of player, but /meh. I'm fine with that, gonna say it anyway: I do not want 'turn in to upgrade' systems, they drive me crazy and only result in rerunning content with the same character, which I also hate. So grindy. Systems like shroud crafting and cannith crafting are a good concept: you make an item and then create extra effects of your choosing onto it based on the types of turn ins you have been able to gather. Now if you could just lay the smack down on the horrible, horrible grind of shroud, or sort out cannith crafting so the grind is actually worth it again... I'm fine with favour opening up access to a patron store with ridiculously pricey awesome named items in plat, with higher (more frequent) favour levels upping what you have access to. That then just happens with normal questing on harder difficulties, and you get a choice. There needs to be no clear 'best in slot' for each favour tier. This means you need loads of items to choose from . And I'm fine with that too.

    -Eveningstar turn ins (e.g. to get sun soul gear) feel about right. I don't like turn ins, but you turn in once and buy your gear. Done. That's like a favor reward and I can live with that. Dragontouched by comparison just feels all wrong and random. Remove the RNG from that or give a reasonable way to convert to a chosen effect. It's really not that powerful anymore, so no-one runs it, so you can't get your gear anyway. And let us not speak of the greensteel grind again. Alright, we'll speak of it: it's terrible. Needing to rerun quests as well as raids, needing 20 raids to get a cleansing essence... ugh. I've done it, for two characters and a total of 4 items (and boy do I have buyer's remorse on that lit2 repeater. SO not worth it, even on a TR life where I can use it from L11 upwards). I will not be doing that again (although I'll run shroud cos it's quite fun, and save the drops to give to guildies). Plus the fact of the matter is that GS just isn't really that good anymore, comparatively (it's powerful, but... just not that powerful), but it takes so long to grind it out you're actually doing so for your next life, as you'll have capped 28 before you get enough ingredients, and the random lootgen and normal named drops are potentially better by then, particularly for weapons. A system you only take part in to twink a future incarnation? That can't be good in terms of new and experienced players getting together, surely?

    -S&B AC builds need love. Lots of love. In other words: obtainable tiers of armour and shields that make a noticeable difference to defense particularly at higher levels. The swords are fine, not sure about the axes.
    Last edited by dunklezhan; 12-11-2013 at 06:26 PM.
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  11. #71
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    - What's your favorite named loot upgrade system, and why?
    Many have some very good points. Greensteel is by far the best upgrade system. This is because of several factors. First and foremost is the customizability of the system. There are so many options to have fun with. Some of them very unique, like my personal favorite Ooze2. The second reason it is at the top is that it's mats are found in other places than just one or two packs: Greensteel mats are found in amrath, the vale, devil assault, and are tradeable to other players. The thrid is that the materials are used for more than just greensteel. You also use them to upgrade the rings from Tower of Despair, and this extention of the system into further parts of the game makes it feel like a part of the game world rather than an "Oh look what random thing the devs did today, now lets get back to playing" sort of system.

    After greensteel I would have to say it is a tie between the inspired quarter system, the lordsmarch system, and dragon touched armor with a nod to the trace of madness items as a runner up. Each has there good points that I would like to point out for you. The inspired quarter has items that can gain additional abilities when upgraded, but the reason that I like this system is that it is also used by other items, namely the ioun stones and the dreamsplitter, making it a system that feels like a part of the game world. The unraveling enchantments would have been an awesome system if it had extended into other parts of the game. In the lordsmarch plaza there is a system that lets you combine weapons to add an effect from one, to the other weapon creating a single more powerful weapon. This is an interesting thing to me, and it is akin to how cannith crafting was originally pitched to the playerbase. Dragon touched armor has the quality of being customizable. It is one of my favorite armors, simply because I can make it into how ever I want. It also has sundering ooze guard, and this will make anything better.

    Trace of madness had potential. It had a small amount of customizability, and it almost looked like it would extend into multiple packs, but it didn't, so it ended up just kind of a meh system that involved some otherwise really nice items.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    - Name a desired named item that felt like the right difficulty to acquire. Name one that felt too hard.*
    Right difficulty: Original Xacosian Eardweller before the spellpower changes. It was a unique power increase for spellcasters, and it was the most powerful. It was elusive and you had to hunt for it through a few quests. The hunt was fun.

    Too Hard:
    scroll/shard/seal items. All of them. Every single one. New items of the same level are better and easier to acquire. This is a very very bad way to do things. It should have changed when you abandoned the system for new content. It is at the same level of badness as the ghostbane situation.

    Also Everything that drops in Zawabi's Revenge raid. You can not even reliably get what you want in the twentieth list. My first life I had 80 runs without getting one of the three items I was after. I won't run that raid ever again until this situation is fixed.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    - What weapon types / class equipment do you feel are due or overdue for some named loot love?
    -Named shields that are not metal, so a druid can use them.
    -Named medium armor that a druid can equip. Seriously this one is a constant irritant to me. The game used to have hide armor, a medium armor made from skins, meaning it was not metal and a druid could equip it. Litterally just before turbine releases druids, they change the armor by removing many of the types, one of which was hide, the only medium armor a druid can use. Druids have medium armor proficiency, let them freaking use it dammit! (not directed at anyone, I just want to express how incredibly irritated I am about this.)
    -new rune arms of various levels. So much potential here, and so wasted. You could do things like a rune arm that heals allies or fires webs, or soooo many other things, give us some reason to carry as many rune arms as we do weapons.
    -Shuriken. There is what, 3-4 named ones? Need more.
    -All Favored weapon types for divine characters. They need them at all levels and for all playstyles. Named caster greatswords, shortswords of divine smiting, heavy maces of holy wrath, longswords and longbows of divine vengeance, and scimitars of the deathless. Both for stabbing things with and for blasting things with.
    -More items with gaurds/procs that summon monsters for you like Ooze2. It is my favorite effect in the game and I would like to be able to use it in more parts of the game. Please, please, please give us more things like this, whatever they are on.
    -Docents. There have been no good or interesting ones for a long time. Make some that are just docents and not copy/pastes of some armor from the same pack.

    As a note I despise the idea of items that require a certain class to use, with no UMD check. One of the things that made this game attractive to me was a complete lack of such things. Seriously such mechanics are immersion breaking for me. Don't do it please. UMD stands for use magic device. It is the skill for figuring out how to use something that you otherwise wouldn't be able to use. So when you make a class specific item give it a UMD check for everyone else. Not doing that is basically proclaiming that all other characters are to dumb to operate that item, and personally things like that irritate me. Instead, you could make items like Divine Vengence, the sword from VoD that gets better the more Paladin you are. You see one method is telling your players how to play, and the other is encouraging them to use items a certain way. Encouragement is always better. Rune arms should have been like this. They should have been able to be equipped by anyone, but only fired by characters with the use runearm feat that artificers get.
    Last edited by Havok.cry; 12-11-2013 at 06:28 PM.
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  12. #72
    Time Bandit & Hero SirShen's Avatar
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    Favorite Loot System:
    Greensteel because it is completely customizable and Cannith Challenge Gear.

    Right Difficulty to Acquire:
    Greensteel and Cannith Challenges, doing the quests and raids get you ingredients needed, same goes for cannith challenges.

    Too hard to Acquire:
    Shard/Seal/Scroll epic system.

    Things that need some attention:
    Augments (why no true seeing augment?), Quivers, Handwraps, Wooden Versions of Weapons for druids (no wooden version of scimitar) and more named scimitars.

    Just to add the reason i ask for wooden versions of weapons is so that you can use the spell Shillelagh on them.
    Last edited by SirShen; 12-27-2013 at 03:20 PM. Reason: Wood weapons for druids

  13. #73
    Hero Propane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    Friends, forumites, adventurers, lend me your ears. I come not to tell about Named Loot, but to ask about it. Really, we want your feedback on named items in DDO. This is the promised follow-up to my introductory post, where I asked you all to share your thoughts on random items.

    Let me give a quick report on the prior thread: you guys gave us a lot of great feedback, and a couple major themes came out, all of which we are actively digesting. One of those themes was concern about old named items (especially raid items) being out-powered by new, high level random items. We heard ya, and we're looking at solutions and scheduling now. So there's no need to talk about that today.

    Today, we want to focus more squarely on named loot itself. Please share your thoughts on these topics. The tapes are rolling! And thanks!

    - What's your favorite named loot upgrade system, and why?
    - Name a desired named item that felt like the right difficulty to acquire. Name one that felt too hard.*
    - What weapon types / class equipment do you feel are due or overdue for some named loot love?



    *Random number disclaimer: sadly, bad luck is bad luck. Random is a fickle goddess, and if she has singled you out personally for Loot Denial, you have our sympathy, but there's only so much we can do. Though we heard ceremonial rain-dances can help.
    1) Shroud with Alchemical a close second.

    GODD
    Shroud was very well done - power shards bound to character - so you had to run it some - all other stuff bound to account - you could be flexible and farm with alts.
    Lots of options for weapons and gear - options all classes and roles wanted.
    Great 12-20 gear - can use long enough it is worth effort to get - works well with a TR or two (or three....)

    BAD
    Shroud was missing hand wraps and shield / armors.
    Stacking stats are outdated at LV 20 - semi ok with that
    Need 20 runs for some drops is daunting
    Could improve with how TOD expands the shroud items - more cross over.

    GOOD
    Alchemical - nice to add more weapon types (hand wraps and great clubs) - good options (not quite as good as shroud).
    +2 stats stack will a lot of stuff - does not get overwritten easily
    Having the two raids work together is nice - gives you something to do during your 3 day cool down. Makes for a good story - not just a loot machine.
    Having rewards at 5 and 10 completions is more reasonable

    BAD
    Alchemical
    Missing CHR and INT bonus
    Casting options are weak - need to go melee option for +2 WIS
    Damage Die low should be 1.5, 2,0, 2.5 for 3 tiers
    Missing other gear with guards / etc...
    Duel crafting missing

    BAD
    Wish the sprits were bound to account and cells were bound to character - farming is much harder here than shroud.
    It takes too long to get to raid (MA is much worse)
    +CHR and INT are missing

    2) The Cannith challenges are about right - reasonable grind for reasonable loot. A few more things could be added to make it more popular. The random gear of Eveningstar is a real turn off. (thank goodness items are not BTA)
    The older seal / shard / scroll drop is a nightmare - I have some yet today I would like to finish - but there is no end in sight - no measureable predictable end... We like to see progress - after this run I have X more things - can estimate if I need 5 more runs, 10 more runs - I need a goal to work towards, not a chance each time. The 5,10,20 completions is a goal - that added to each 10 runs you get your pick of seal / shard / scroll would be great!

    3) Stuff for our healers! They need to have interest in the loot to go along - Bound to Account helps (farming for others) - look at the raid items list - need more stuff to get the healer types excited.
    More threat generation / threat reduction - more slots - every augment / item in store should be able to worked towards in game.
    I like the flexibility of adding stuff to the weapon I want us use (style) - compare named Daxe to Bsword or Warhammer and Rapier to Scimitar - I want to pick a style / look and then get make a weapon - not get a raid weapon drop and have to compromise.

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  14. #74
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    - What's your favorite named loot upgrade system, and why?
    Heroic Gianthold Armours - Although you annoyed me when you changed the Black Plate from Cleric/Paladin Armour to Pure DPS Armour

    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    - Name a desired named item that felt like the right difficulty to acquire. Name one that felt too hard.*
    Really having trouble finding one that felt right unless you're willing to count Korthos items - And NO I don't believe EVERY Named item should be that easy to get!

    As for too hard - Well there's numerous:

    Base Ring of Spell Storing and ALL Epic Sands Upgrades are Insane!

    BUT

    There's Two items in game that have become almost required over the years {maybe not so much now but you all know what I mean}:

    Planar Gird - Xorian Cypher
    &
    Visor of the Flesh Render Guards - Splinterskull End Reward

    Visor especially should be made 100% available in the End Reward just like Voice of the Master in Delera's and Mantle of the Worldshaper in Threnal.

    The Gird is harder to Pinpoint But even doubling it's silly low drop rate would be a big help to many!

    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    - What weapon types / class equipment do you feel are due or overdue for some named loot love?
    CLERICGEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    As for Weapons:

    Flails
    Spears
    Polearms

    Even if they could just be added as special named items it would be a huge advancement for DDO.

    We could do with more choices for:
    -Quarterstaves {Melee Staves NOT Caster Sticks}
    -Repeater X-Bows {Lvl Range 8-15 needs some choices}
    -Warhammers {Please give us a reason to go with a Bludgeoning Build on our Defenders}
    -Falchions {These are ignored atm as G-Axe and G-Sword are too strong in comparison}
    -Mauls {Something other than a Skelly Beater please}
    -Morningstars {specifically make some named ones that break Pierce DR as well as Bludgeon}
    and I'm gonna get flak for this one
    -Scimitars {way too few choices in the 11-19 Level Range}


    Oh and Shields - Real Shields of all types - From Bucklers to Tower Shields - We need GOOD Named Shields that FIT the Builds that are going to use them:
    Bucklers for Rogues
    Large Shields for Paladins and Clerics
    Tower Shields for Fighters.

    I.E. No Tower Shields with Sacred or Spell Power on them.
    No Bucklers that compete with the Best Tower Shields for Tank Use {Swashbuckler was this when it first came out}.
    Last edited by FranOhmsford; 12-11-2013 at 06:38 PM.

  15. #75
    Community Member bbqzor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    Today, we want to focus more squarely on named loot itself. Please share your thoughts on these topics. The tapes are rolling! And thanks!

    - What's your favorite named loot upgrade system, and why?
    - Name a desired named item that felt like the right difficulty to acquire. Name one that felt too hard.*
    - What weapon types / class equipment do you feel are due or overdue for some named loot love?
    1) Shroud Greensteel, for many reasons:
    - Progress every run, even if its not an ingredient you immediately needed you always got something and never had 12 people complete a raid for a drop-less box.
    - Good itemization, it effectively had every effect available in every slot.
    - No randomization, there was none of the annoying and misplaced "randomization" which plagues modern systems (ie, no chance of crafting failure like cannith crafting, and no random modifiers like U14, Tor, and U19 exhibit).
    - Meaningful effects, the loot had modifiers which were relevant and cared about by both new players and hardened vets.
    -- To expand, A) the things which were good were actually good, and not just good because they were the least bad. An example, unique (at the time) stacking hp/mana, or lit2 new effect, as opposed to Master Illusionists Gloves which is only good because its a static high int modifier which is otherwise just available randomly and has a pointless illusion dc mod on it rather than something useful like necro or enchant.
    --And B) the effects were ones people actively wanted, such as better dps through unique mutations, rez clickies (before they were nerfed), haste clickies, etc. Nowadays we get better dps through another 1d4 damage no one cares about, or mutation effects which are wholly unasked for and effectively pointless like Trapsmiths Crossbow. Really? A +0 Epic Weapon, not even repeating, which deals 1 stat damage that the epic mobs you use it on are effectively immune to? There is nothing appealing about it despite it being unique, and having (at the time) a unique mutation. It's just a waste of time and space.
    - Tradeable! Why does everything have to bind to character... some of us (most of us, I would wager) enjoy playing different characters, or don't want to be discouraged against changing to a healer to help out over bound ingredients. I understand binding items, but the key to shroud was the ability for all your guys to help out both your other guys, and your friends and guild. Its a MMO, it should be massively-multiplayer, and encourage teamwork. Not encourage me to play only one guy for 100 runs, ignoring everyone else's goals, to get something I can't ever use anywhere else.

    2) Just Right: Greensteel, for the first 2 accessories and weapons. If you wanted to wear 3+ items on one guy it became difficult, due to Essence of Cleansing bottlenecks. Those should have been craftable from an ingredient recipe too, like 6 of each large makes a BTC Essence or something and then it would have been 100% on.
    - Considering JUST FoT, Heroic Coms are okay (items take 0-12, you get at least 1 per run, its fair that by 20th you can upgrade the one named item you probably got, and have a few left over for a crafted one like Dragonscale Armor). Once you add Web (which takes twice as many at 25 per item, and drops perhaps 10% as many, and takes 3x as long per quest) the system falls apart completely into the terrible affliction it is on players now... but the U17/EGH/FoT portion as a stand alone was playable. Note: Maybe you should go fix the Web Com drop rates finally... after Raiders Boxes its difficult to even fill an LFM for it, least you could do was make it less of a waste of time.

    Totally Wrong: Where to begin... heres a few that come to mind:
    - Reavers Refuge was the first of many terrible, terrible systems and its still terrible to this day. It needs a barter interface so you can 3:1 to what you want, that would fix it.
    - Lords of Madness drops ingrediants too slow to make use of more than really one, or maybe two upgrades... the mobs in quests need to drop parts much faster so you can get 20-50 without doing dozens and dozens of runs, by which time you've out leveled the content and the items it drops.
    - Inspired Quarter Dreaming Dark was bad, until the changes so every 3rd run you got a shot at some upgrade progress. That made it workable, just including this as an example that fixes are possible.
    - Stormreaver Seals... taking 60 heroic scales for 1 seal is way overkill. It shouldn't take 3 full items, which are actually still useful on their own, to get one upgrade for something you'd only use while leveling. Making it use a full set of one color, so you trade a suit of armor for a seal is fair.

    3) In response to several posts above... NOT Dwarven Axes, there's already like a half dozen of those at epic.
    - How about some Heavy Picks or Warhammers, to go with the new Enhancements? Mornh is good but the definition of needing more choices is when you are pigeon-holed into one choice, and theres no picks at all.
    - The only Kopeshes (not counting Drow Weaponry since every weapon got one) were Ironwood (just terrible, nothing to take advantage of its crit profile and an ability that won't even work on the mobs which drop it due to low dc) and Allegiance (pretty limited scope at best).
    - A Khukri would be good, now that rogues have a reason to use them, perhaps giving them a choice of going slashing instead of piercing.
    - Divine "favored weapon" choices for all the options. Right now Celestia is a great example of this done right (ps, warpriest enhancements still bug it out, can we get those coded to +atk/dmg/sp directly already so Vulkoor Warpriests can actually use them). But the other faiths have little choice (other than ESOS/Pinion of course). A good divine caster/melee longsword, and a morningstar, would be great.
    - And some more weapons which use alternate stats. For example Elyd Edge is great for Cha-based Bards, but those builds have little recourse for advancement after that point and its a poor option at 28.
    - Pet Collars. I know we can convert named Wraps, but really, it would be nice to see some pet-centric design. Perhaps as a choice on a quest hand in (ie, from a barter window like if you could use dragon scales in tor to buy dragon-fanged collar) so it doesn't bloat the loot table for the 90% of classes without a pet. As pet-only items they could be a little more robust (since pets only have two slots) without causing imbalance elsewhere. As an example, it would be great to see a "iron defender tank" collar which adds something like 100% threat, +30 intim, +30 prr, +10% dodge or whatever (I know some of those are traditionally armor mods, but since pets use player armor it would be a good idea to shift them to collars for balance reasons). Without a substantial boost, pets are borderline useless on Epic Hard, and completely worthless in Epic Elite... its sad to see a Unique Class Feature be worthless when it would be fixed by adding like one "Beastmaster" NPC Barter guy for druids and one "Tinkerer" NPC Barter guy for artificers to get some legit pet collars (honestly could be applied to all levels, but especially necessary post 20/25).

  16. #76
    2015 DDO Players Council Sebastrd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Livmo View Post
    My favorite loot system is when an named item drops its based on the difficulty setting, Epic, Epic Hard, Epic Elite. Same for heroic. Results are guranteed if you get one and you don't have to spend forever trying to get shards/seals//scrolls that never drop.
    I don't mind this system, except that I'd like to see all versions set to the normal version's minimum level. That way when you acquire a higher difficulty version, there's absolutely no reason to keep the others clogging up your inventory - especially now that epic TRing has been implemented.

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  17. #77
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    My $0.02

    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    What's your favorite named loot upgrade system, and why?
    I like the tiered upgrades, with a second tier with a good improvement, and a third tier customizable. Kinda like Cannith Challenge items. The second upgrade is always an improvement over some base stat, and the third tier is either a slot, or "craftable +X". Both allow you to put anything you want there.

    The one-tier-upgrades (Visbane's Folly, Altar of Vulkoor, Sora Katra Cauldron, Altar of Insanity, Dreamforge, Reforging Station) are missing, to me, either the static upgrade, or the customizable update.

    I know Shroud is popular and stuff, but personally, I didn't liked shroud crafting system at launch, with all the "secret" recipes we had to find (for years, we had to rely on fan-made crafters to plan them out), plus the easy way to mess up and having to start from scratch. Shroud definitelly, as a crafting system, do not feel "good" to me.

    Alchemical Crafting tried to mimic Greensteel, but IMO, the major reason it didn't succeed as intended was because the upgrades would raise the ML of the weapons (One major advantage of GS is to powerlevel you during a heroic TR), the lack of non-weapon stuff, and the ingredients being tiered by the raid difficulty instead of raid "phases" like Shroud.

    Dragontouched is too random to me. And currently, there are very few effects that are worth slotting.

    The absolute bottom of the line to me is the old epic item system (Base, Shard, Seal, Scroll). The drop rate of each part is already small enough, and currently, 95% of those epic items are subpar to loot (random and named) about the same level. Eg, you migh prefer to use a Blade of the High Priestess than an Epic Phiarlan Spy Dagger. For the former, you just need to finish one chain three times. For the latter, months of grinding.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    Name a desired named item that felt like the right difficulty to acquire. Name one that felt too hard.
    As a mostly casual player, everything feels "hard" to me, except the guaranteed drops, either by getting a full list on X completions, or something that have over 50% chance to appear in chests (Like Insanity). So, while I don't like greensteel as a crafting system, I like them as a reward. Because after every shroud, no matter what, you are closer to finishing your greensteel. It is not the same as if I was looking for, let's say, a Sword of Shadows. My first and my hundredth Vault of Night all have the same chance to drop the sword. And if things goes for too long, you give up after some time. The threshold limit varies from player to player. I know mine is very short.

    But even I can name one single named item that is so low on the loot chances that everyone agrees it needs to get some raises someday.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    What weapon types / class equipment do you feel are due or overdue for some named loot love?
    We need bardic items that are not only "this things gives you more songs" and Anthem. Epic Elyd Edge have a unique mutation that put it on high grounds for any bard. We need more stuff like that. Maybe something that have sonic and devotion together, or that shorten the time of your singing, or allow you to keep attacking while you sing. Something new.

    We need more longswords. With Warpriest out, a lot of Sovereign Host divines would love to keep a longsword in hands, but every epic named longsword simply are too defensive in nature to be worth wielding.

    We need more picks. Up to today, Deathnip is the best pick in the game. And it is ML 14! We need a lot more picks because they are the only weapon type with a x4 crit multiplier. It is, theoretically, on pair with 18-20/x2 weapons, and need more representations.

    We need more Great Crossbows. I know, people prefer repeaters. But we only have one named great xbow in the game, and it is given on Khortos! This seriously hurts anyone that might consider going the path of great xbow instead of the common repeaters.

    A lot of simple weapons also are lacking in the named loot department: Sickles, light clubs, maces, morningstars, crossbows, and non-scepter clubs.

    Finally, we need throwers. Darts, daggers, axes, hammers, and shurikens. They are backup weapons, but some good opener stuff (like shattermantle) or all-arounder (one with metalline and aligned) might be worth the farming time.
    Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist (12/14) [<o>]
    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma


    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Kensai, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

  18. #78
    Community Member
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    Nov 2009
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    totaly to easy to get:
    - everything u will get from, run some stuff on casual 3 times, then get a list of named stuff. this mechanic is just wrong


    I disagree, with the old epic item system (shard, seal, scroll, base) being to difficult. This statement would again totaly fail to catch the real problem - RANDOMNESS.


    Let me explain:

    All stuff from the Phiarlan chain was SLIGHTLY to EASY to get. All the complains and the bad memories ppl have, about geting an item they wanted from there, are purely connected to bugs (missing drops of seal shards, droprates of stuff being way to low cos of bugs etc pp).
    - The system here is random, but getting scrolls was never a problem, IF u realy wanted a certain scroll, cos they were tradeable and auctionable.
    - Aquiring a specific seal was also never a problem, cos certain chests gave at most 3 or 4 different seals. If u wanted a certain thing, u simply did run that stuff, and with only 3-4 items fighting over a slot to drop and moderately high droprates, no problem to get what u wanted.
    - For the base its same as the seals
    - To get a shard in this chain u had to run big top and u had a guarantied drop of 1 shard, with 19 shards possible and 1 certain drop, it wasnt that hard to get what u wanted, especially with the longstanding bug of being able to shortcut that mission in 5 minutes. Now after that shortcut being removed, it will take quite a bit longer to get what u want, cos of randomness, and cos those items are mostly vendortrash, aka nobody is running that chain.


    If u now look at the red fens, same amount of items, the difficulty to get what u want is much higher. why!??? Red Fens also has 19 items. So why its harder?
    In fact it isnt. The point here is the percieved difficulty. Red Fens has/had a few very desireable items. Auqiring the base was a no brainer and totally too easy. But basically only from 2 of the 3 missions u realy WANTED something, leading to the fact that u did run mostly this 2 missions for scrolls and seals and both missions (claw and last stand) u did need a grp or a very specific build/class to run it solo. And to get the desired shard u had to run a pretty long mission PLUS a optional endboss that did proove for many many as too hard.
    In the end, i still believe, red fens has a good power to aquire ratio (the epic claw set is STILL a good set).

    Now look at sands or von stuff. totally friggin too hard to get what u want. Why? most things are just vendortrash. and to get the few items u want (or in case of von, its basically just 3 things sos, helm and armor) it took alot of runs to get lucky, cos of the problem of dilluted droptables(von 26 items, sands 59 items!!!). PLUS that preraid/raid problem. U run 2 missions for the chance(!!!) of a shard out of that many possible, to get what u want, is madness!

    Randomness works only to a certain degree. If there are to many options for a drop, it becomes too much a thing of a chance and luck and ppl get frustrated.

    In case of shroud this thing of randomness is broken down into smaller things (u WILL get a chance for a small, a medium, a large ing - not just a chance of geting any of the 3 - u dont end up unlucky with only small ings) and even when u get unlucky, u have the option to trade 2-3 stones for a scale if u needed it.
    Thats why shroud is even now popular. U can get that lucky moment feeling of having pulled what u need or getting 2 large scales. But even if not, u did make progress and u can trade what u got for what u need.


    If shroud is so good, why is LoB (alchemical) so bad???

    shroud had a guarantied progress (getting small and mediums, even if u failed). LoB is all or nothing. Plus LoB also sufffers from dilluted droptables, getting exactly that type of khyber frags u needed was a thing of pure luck, getting that exact type of spirit (normal, refined, exquisite) is pure luck. U cant trade stuff. and LoB was a pretty tough raid, and even today many fail or dont even try cos they might fail.
    If normal would only drop t1 stuff, guarantied only t1 stuff, u could raise the droprates slightly. Then hard would only drop t2 stuff (refined) and elite the t3 (exquisite). In this case ppl knew what they would get, decide what diff to run and make certain progress if they dont fail.

  19. #79
    Hero nibel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
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    Brazil
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    Now that the questions are out of the way, I'll throw more 2 cents on the discussion.

    First off, I believe every single named item should be strictly better than a equal-level, same niche, random loot item. The only exception allowed is if the item is a guaranteed drop after the quest (like the staff at the end of Haywire's Foundry).

    If you have a named item that their main point is that it have a stat or skill bonus, it should match or surpass a random loot item of the same level. A ML 11 item with three skills should give +13 to each skill, because even if it consolidate a lot of skills, if the character want at least one of those skills maximized, he will prefer a random loot with maximized bonus than the named item if the bonus were, let's say, +10. In the same vein, any ML 11 named item with a stat bonus should give at least a +6.

    Items with unique, or rare effects (Torc, Madstone Boots, Scarab of Absorption...) may have sub-par stats because they are not the main point of the item. Even then, I believe it is good practice to keep them on pair.

    So, a named item should have one of those gimmicks to be worth the search:

    • It have the same stats as a random loot item, but a lower Minimum Level.
    • It have multiple stats with the same level as a random item, but helps with item consolidation.
    • It have a unique effect that you can't find outside of this item.
    • It have the same stats as a random loot item, but in a non-standard slot (Used a lot before U14 messed the item stats to be all around all items. Eg, Previously, you could not get Spot outside of goggles, helmet or rings, thus the Gloves of the Falcon were interesting for slotting Spot in the Hand slot)
    Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist (12/14) [<o>]
    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma


    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Kensai, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

  20. #80
    2016 DDO Players Council karatemack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    210

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    - What's your favorite named loot upgrade system, and why?
    Don't have one. If you could upgrade an item from EN to EH and then EE with comms then that would be it.

    - Name a desired named item that felt like the right difficulty to acquire. Name one that felt too hard.*
    Just right would be staff of the necromancer.

    Too hard would be fully upgraded ring of spell storing. Also named loot with random effects (why!?!?). Nether orb, for instance, is difficult due to low drop rate combined with random factor which has a chance of producing trans focus 5 items. Why not allow us to customer upgrade the focus instead with augments???

    - What weapon types / class equipment do you feel are due or overdue for some named loot love?
    Cleric. Turning. Gear.

    Would love to see more set bonuses.

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