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  1. #1

    Smile DDOGamer: Minimum Levels, Maximum Annoyance

    I love DDO, but not every bit of DDO, sometimes I am crazy annoyed with it.

    -> This is one of those times

  2. #2
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    Sorry but those rings and some other gear was seriously broken and needed to be fixed it wasn't a nerf.

    The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    Sorry but those rings and some other gear was seriously broken and needed to be fixed it wasn't a nerf.
    Yes, because my ML 12 (greater?) potency 6 scepter that suddenly became a gimpy spell power item, but ML 20, was such a bad thing that my cleric needed to be shamed for all the world to see as a dirty cheater.
    It's definitely an N-word.

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    Community Member PNellesen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geoffhanna View Post
    I love DDO, but not every bit of DDO, sometimes I am crazy annoyed with it.

    -> This is one of those times
    Agree completely. Punishing players who DID NOTHING WRONG ACCORDING TO THE RULES OF THE GAME AT THE TIME THEY EQUIPPED THE ITEMS is extremely bad form. It's not the ML change itself that p*sses me off (for some items, at least), it's the presumption that the player is guilty of some misdeed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ertay View Post
    While they were at it though, the devs decided to go on an incredible nerfhammer rampage and left nothing in their wake standing...

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    Hero JOTMON's Avatar
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    My crafted level 4 lifeshield outfit of invulnerability is now min level 8 on my level 5 toon
    It was legitimate when I crafted it and bound it to the character
    Now DDO screws me by retroactively changing it and hitting me with the "burden of Guilt"..

    .. not a happy camper...anything else I want to say will likely get me banned, so.......[redacted]

    Haven't played that alt since..
    Jotmon - Let's not forget why we play these games - to have fun - ~
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    Update 24: Champions... "whew, it's ok, it's only a red name" .. sad day when trash spawn Champions and their one-shot ignore fort attacks instill more party fear than the Red named bosses.

  6. #6
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Yep they Chanced the ML on those broken end reward rings...these rings were not stealth nerfed they were bugged and you my friend were exploiting that bug.

    Yep the Changed the ML on outdated Ricia Items which don't list "Festival" on them because, the game had no way to differentiate Ricia effect from Random Loot Gen. Newly crafted Ricia items will have no ML increase.

    Yep some Cannith Crafting recipes had their ML raised in the changes as well.


    The Burden of Guilt has absolutely nothing to do with your Charicter wearing some item that had its ML raised.

    Burden of Guilt was a temporary fix for an exploit where players were equipping EPIC gear during heroic levels it works by ML and is indiscriminate if your wearing an item which had its ML raised beyond your level or if your equipping ESOS at lvl 1. If your wearing over level items it will get you.

    The solution is to unequip the offending item and stop complaining that your EXPLOIT RINGS got nerfed.

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    The Hatchery
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanngiostr View Post
    The solution is to unequip the offending item and stop complaining that your EXPLOIT RINGS got nerfed.
    And my potency item that got nerfed, but got its ML raised by 8 in the process... how was that exploiting? Please, enlighten me?
    It's definitely an N-word.

  8. #8
    Hopeless Romantic dunklezhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanngiostr View Post
    Yep they Chanced the ML on those broken end reward rings...these rings were not stealth nerfed they were bugged and you my friend were exploiting that bug.

    Yep the Changed the ML on outdated Ricia Items which don't list "Festival" on them because, the game had no way to differentiate Ricia effect from Random Loot Gen. Newly crafted Ricia items will have no ML increase.

    Yep some Cannith Crafting recipes had their ML raised in the changes as well.


    The Burden of Guilt has absolutely nothing to do with your Charicter wearing some item that had its ML raised.

    Burden of Guilt was a temporary fix for an exploit where players were equipping EPIC gear during heroic levels it works by ML and is indiscriminate if your wearing an item which had its ML raised beyond your level or if your equipping ESOS at lvl 1. If your wearing over level items it will get you.

    The solution is to unequip the offending item and stop complaining that your EXPLOIT RINGS got nerfed.
    This view is exactly the problem Geoff is complaining about. He didn't exploit anything. He got an item in game which is a once per rest L3 spell clickie with a mere 30 second duration, which you can buy and drink via pot by level 4 no problems. . It allowed him to equip at L4. Why shouldn't he? What possible reason could he have for looking at that item and thinking "oh I'd better not wear that I'd be exploiting"?

    Of course he was not exploiting. Exploiting is something you do deliberately. It has connotations of misdeeds that do NOT apply in this case. The guy with an eSOS KNOWS something isn't right but this? Please.

    I don't mind (much) that previously perfectly legal items had one or two added to their min levels although it would have been better to simply nerf the power of the items so that, say, I didn't log onto my cleric and have to spend all my plat regearing my cannith crafted armour and weapons... But Geoff is correct. The implication that this happening to you means you were deliberately exploiting something in the same way as someone cackling all the way to the chest swinging an epic weapon around in the waterworks is absolutely insulting. It is NOT exploiting to use an item turbine later decree is too powerful for the level it was previously aimed at as part of a balance pass. It just isn't.
    Last edited by dunklezhan; 12-11-2013 at 10:03 AM.
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    The best of the best DDO players generally overperform when given a real challenge

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    I get where it could be emotionally annoying to a player, but I do think standardizing the loot including the min level ups and downs was a good thing in the long run. Just take the ring off and the burden will be gone.
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    Community Member Miow's Avatar
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    You got turnbined. Just pretend your neo and your inside the matrix.

  11. #11
    Hopeless Romantic dunklezhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrinityTurtle View Post
    I get where it could be emotionally annoying to a player, but I do think standardizing the loot including the min level ups and downs was a good thing in the long run. Just take the ring off and the burden will be gone.
    I agree that the rebalance was needed certainly and overall I agree with you. Geoff's point is merely that there was no need to be rude about it. My own point is that they didn't need to bump ML they should've just nerfed the offending effects rather than force a bunch of folks to regear in some cases quite a number of slots.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    The best of the best DDO players generally overperform when given a real challenge

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    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    The rings were most definitely NOT exploited. They were earned through normal gameplay. You can argue perhaps that they were not working as intended according to Turbine. That's at least up for debate but do not confuse this with an exploit.

    No min level rings are as much an exploit as wonderous craftsmanship is on Wheloon and Stormhorns end rewards. Neither is documented by Turbine and both result in items with much lower min level than intended. (yes, wonderous craftsmanship itself is acknowledged by Turbine, but the fact that you always get these or named item on your reward list was never acknowledged, therefore it could very well be a bug. To call it exploiting to take one of these items is ridiculous) Turbine could turn around tomorrow and say that those end reward lists for Wheloon and Stormhorns have been bugged since day one. Would you call everyone that took a wonderous item an exploiter?
    Last edited by redspecter23; 12-11-2013 at 12:34 PM.
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    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    My favorite quote from the article was "Cutlass doesn’t cheat, he’s too low level!"


    I like Jerry's "it’s unfortunate that some folks (like yourself) who has items equipped that saw ML changes (like your haste ring) were caught in the net" comment.


    Hey you can't make canned tuna without killing a few dolphins. Or a lot of dolphins.
    Last edited by Postumus; 12-11-2013 at 02:47 PM.

  14. #14
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    The rings were most definitely NOT exploited. They were earned through normal gameplay. You can argue perhaps that they were not working as intended according to Turbine. That's at least up for debate but do not confuse this with an exploit.

    No min level rings are as much an exploit as wonderous craftsmanship is on Wheloon and Stormhorns end rewards. Neither is documented by Turbine and both result in items with much lower min level than intended. (yes, wonderous craftsmanship itself is acknowledged by Turbine, but the fact that you always get these or named item on your reward list was never acknowledged, therefore it could very well be a bug. To call it exploiting to take one of these items is ridiculous) Turbine could turn around tomorrow and say that those end reward lists for Wheloon and Stormhorns have been bugged since day one. Would you call everyone that took a wonderous item an exploiter?
    The rings weren't an exploit they were a bug and now they aren't you can still keep them on if you had them but you will likely soon level to the point where they aren't an issue any more. People using +5 rings and such at 1st lvl was ridiculous period.

    The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE

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    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    The ML of items was re-adjusted across the board this fixed some items that were bugged (using bugged items is no different than using bugged abilities)cough *exploit*

    sure some items got the shaft since the game could not differentiate between random gen loot and old school festival items so calculated them upwards.

    Update 19 changed the ML
    Update 20 introduced burden of guilt for those wearing items with too high ML
    try reading the release notes from time to time before you blog Geoff

    yep if you've got the burden of guilt your guilty

  16. #16
    Hero JOTMON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanngiostr View Post

    The Burden of Guilt has absolutely nothing to do with your Charicter wearing some item that had its ML raised.
    Well that is Bull ....
    You obviously don't know what you are talking about

    I made a level 4 Life shield of Invulnerability for my level 4 toon and it was increased to level 8 retroactively.
    I am burdened when I log onto this toon.


    Last edited by JOTMON; 12-12-2013 at 12:57 AM.
    Jotmon - Let's not forget why we play these games - to have fun - ~
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    Update 24: Champions... "whew, it's ok, it's only a red name" .. sad day when trash spawn Champions and their one-shot ignore fort attacks instill more party fear than the Red named bosses.

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    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    My crafted level 4 lifeshield outfit of invulnerability is now min level 8 on my level 5 toon
    It was legitimate when I crafted it and bound it to the character
    Now DDO screws me by retroactively changing it and hitting me with the "burden of Guilt"..

    .. not a happy camper...anything else I want to say will likely get me banned, so.......[redacted]

    Haven't played that alt since..
    Here's an idea.. Take the item off, and put on a different robe/outfit until level 8... Because you know, levels 5-8 are pretty easy... You'll probably be okay.

    Not really rocket science...

    Or you could just never play that character again I guess. That's a MUCH better solution.
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  18. #18
    Hero JOTMON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Here's an idea.. Take the item off, and put on a different robe/outfit until level 8... Because you know, levels 5-8 are pretty easy... You'll probably be okay.

    Not really rocket science...

    Or you could just never play that character again I guess. That's a MUCH better solution.
    Yeah that's one option..
    but I am still penalized for my invested crafting time and materials on a parked toon that I run with friends or guildies at low levels and was never intended to level beyond where he is.

    ..when Feather retroactively made these changes any players who had this gear equipped was still able to wear them.
    I was less disgruntled about the change because of this.

    Then because some Dev couldn't properly fix a bug that allowed epic gear to be exploited players wearing old legitimately crafted gear get screwed


    I am sure if these items were lowered in level it they would not have retroactively fixed them.. I would have to recraft the item or they would offer a fix solution that would cost me a bunch of epic tokens and a stone of change recipe.

    No, DDO screwed a lot of pieces of equipment that I crafted on a few toons as well as a bunch of lowbie items like invis and haste clickies that are worse now than carrying a stack of pots..
    I already destroyed most of these items .. may of which I paid a premium for on the AH because they were good low level items but ***** when they were increased to level 9 for a single use clickie.

    This changed my whole perspective on the game, I used to hard loot like SMAUG the dragon in the Hobbit... or like Gollum and the precious... my precious....
    I even purchased max bank space and sared bank space to sotre all the extra loot.
    Then the retroactive change screwed a lot of my precious low level stored items..

    Now DDO has shown me they have no consideration for my precious treasures and screwed them and me over.
    Now I just vendor trash and destroy loot.. all of it, if it is not immediately useful to me it is trash.
    I will not buy additional inventory space or bank space in future for this very reason.


    I will continue to play this toon since I paid to buy the extra character slots, but they did turn a happy loot hunter into a disgruntled customer.
    Jotmon - Let's not forget why we play these games - to have fun - ~
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    Update 24: Champions... "whew, it's ok, it's only a red name" .. sad day when trash spawn Champions and their one-shot ignore fort attacks instill more party fear than the Red named bosses.

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    Community Member Stoner81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    Well that is Bull ....
    You obviously don't know what you are talking about

    I made a level 4 Life shield of Invulnerability for my level 4 toon and it was increased to level 8 retroactively.
    I am burdened when I log onto this toon.


    HOLY COW! What screen res do you play at!

    Stoner81.

  20. #20
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    Default Ok, so you are saying I exploited a ring with my shield?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanngiostr View Post
    Yep they Chanced the ML on those broken end reward rings...these rings were not stealth nerfed they were bugged and you my friend were exploiting that bug.

    Yep the Changed the ML on outdated Ricia Items which don't list "Festival" on them because, the game had no way to differentiate Ricia effect from Random Loot Gen. Newly crafted Ricia items will have no ML increase.

    Yep some Cannith Crafting recipes had their ML raised in the changes as well.


    The Burden of Guilt has absolutely nothing to do with your Charicter wearing some item that had its ML raised.

    Burden of Guilt was a temporary fix for an exploit where players were equipping EPIC gear during heroic levels it works by ML and is indiscriminate if your wearing an item which had its ML raised beyond your level or if your equipping ESOS at lvl 1. If your wearing over level items it will get you.

    The solution is to unequip the offending item and stop complaining that your EXPLOIT RINGS got nerfed.
    Ok, I guess we would all be wiser not to reply to a post like this, but seriously. ...

    I had several less played characters this happened to. One had a crafted Shield with invulnerability and some other things on it and had it equipped because when I made it it was one of my most useful self crafted items and I was proud of it for my 5th lvl Paladin. The ML of the item gets raised in the change, and I have kept the item equipped (yes, I even went through a couple of quests, carefull to not take off that shield).
    On a couple of other less played characters I had things like goggles and a couple of rings equipped that were lvl 3-4 before they were nerfed with the ML change (bank characters, characters I had to play with my 10yo son once in a while etc.) and to be honest, I didn't even know about these items suddenly having become over my lvl until they were hit with burden of guilt.
    Are you saying that was exploiting? Not to mention that these things were hardly good enough not to get switched out if I would play these characters for more than a single quest (if they have charges, I normally put them on only to activate and then change them out for passive buffs, as do most people, IMO), or be replaced with something better found in the next best adventure.

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