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  1. #61
    Community Member thompsonizer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zDragonz View Post
    Ah. This makes sense. I searched but found nothing. My Spot is high, buy my search has nothing in it.

    But my search is 22 without any investment, but from my gear and epic levels. What is a good search for epic hard quests, for secret doors?

    And yes I was hammered last night.
    I have a lvl 1 cloak that has a "find secret doors" clicky on it and that has always worked for me even at higher levels but not traps or levers

  2. #62
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shorlong View Post
    Wow...you can find p2w in anything....and I'll just wait here until you tell me that one day I'll agree with you when I hit a tipping point...
    Nope, this is blateent p2w. They can nerf my ability to see things in game but they cant nerf my ability to see what it is outside of the game. They are so desperate they have to attempt to milk secret doors for cash.? Maybe, maybe not but this is the message it sends when they change game mechanics in order to resell us the capability we once had free.

    Maybe you have a tipping point, maybe you dont. The more extreme that point is, the more hilarious it sounds when trying to defend game changes that are made for the sole purpose of making cash.

    The funniest thing about all this is people attempting to deny stuff like this is done for making money. If I was in support of p2w like some folks who often quote my posts and disagree are, id be up on these forums calling it what it is and stating support for it. Instead we get these weak lawyerisms explaining how it was not supposedly done to make money and how its not supposedly p2w. People want to support it but they arent even willing to admit it is what it is. This is why they simply cannot state a logical premise against what I post on the subject, because they have to avoid posting anything that identifies it as what they have been attempting to deny it is the whole time.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  3. #63
    Community Member zDragonz's Avatar
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    Default I have a cloak with 3 charges on it, but I never thought to bring it with me in Epic.

    I have one of those in my bank, but that was when I was level 3. You mean to tell me that this new mechanic they put in can be solved with a detect secret door level 1 spell?

    Hmmm, wow.

  4. #64
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forzah View Post
    The main reason to change this is because secret doors don't make sense when everybody can see them so easily.
    The main rea$on to change thi$ i$ becau$e $ecret door$ don't make cent$ when everybody can $ee them for free.
    Last edited by Chai; 12-11-2013 at 09:15 AM.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  5. #65
    Community Member moomooprincess's Avatar
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    This change occurred in August 2013 I think. There is a secret door divining rod in the DDO Store that had its level increased at the same time. Surprised?

    It was WORSE when the first rendition came out. Not sure where the OP was but many threads were written about it.

    Personally, I find it rather idiotic that it was even addressed. The game worked fine for six/seven years with it, even seeing its strongest growth during that time frame. I never once remember any complaints about it.

    Obviously, a certain person had a pet peeve about it and once they had the ability to change it, they did. I find this change annoying to me, but it is what it is.
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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Nope, this is blateent p2w. They can nerf my ability to see things in game but they cant nerf my ability to see what it is outside of the game. They are so desperate they have to attempt to milk secret doors for cash.? Maybe, maybe not but this is the message it sends when they change game mechanics in order to resell us the capability we once had free.

    Maybe you have a tipping point, maybe you dont. The more extreme that point is, the more hilarious it sounds when trying to defend game changes that are made for the sole purpose of making cash.

    The funniest thing about all this is people attempting to deny stuff like this is done for making money. If I was in support of p2w like some folks who often quote my posts and disagree are, id be up on these forums calling it what it is and stating support for it. Instead we get these weak lawyerisms explaining how it was not supposedly done to make money and how its not supposedly p2w. People want to support it but they arent even willing to admit it is what it is. This is why they simply cannot state a logical premise against what I post on the subject, because they have to avoid posting anything that identifies it as what they have been attempting to deny it is the whole time.

    I'd have agreed with you IF they had added this item when they made the change. However, it already existed. All they did was up it's power so it would always work. I believe a dev even said it was being upped because "if you're buying it from the store, it should always work". I'd believe it more if they had introduced a series of "divining rods" that we're guaranteed to find doors up to lvl "X". That'd be P2W. storm horns= p2w, wheloon =~meh kind a p2w, not as bad. If they hadn't made it so necessary secret doors can always be found, even on a blind barbarian, that'd be p2w.

    BTW, there's a big difference between not having your logic refuted and being right.

  7. #67
    Community Member enochiancub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zDragonz View Post
    And yes I was hammered last night.
    Woo whoo! Called it!

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  8. #68
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArcaneArcher52689 View Post
    I'd have agreed with you IF they had added this item when they made the change. However, it already existed. All they did was up it's power so it would always work. I believe a dev even said it was being upped because "if you're buying it from the store, it should always work". I'd believe it more if they had introduced a series of "divining rods" that we're guaranteed to find doors up to lvl "X". That'd be P2W. storm horns= p2w, wheloon =~meh kind a p2w, not as bad. If they hadn't made it so necessary secret doors can always be found, even on a blind barbarian, that'd be p2w.

    BTW, there's a big difference between not having your logic refuted and being right.
    They made a change that requires you to either bring a Rogue with you (available through the DDO store and not through in-game currency) or buy a detect secret doors item from the DDO store (available through the DDO store and not through in-game currency).

    The fact that those previously-useless items were available in the store previously doesn't make this any less of a blatant P2W cash grab.
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  9. #69
    Community Member Shorlong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    The main rea$on to change thi$ i$ becau$e $ecret door$ don't make cent$ when everybody can $ee them for free.
    I seriously doubt the divining rods are making them any sort of money, considering that their only use is to find doors that may contain optionals and loot. As someone else said, if they sell 100 of those a day, they might make $40 out of the deal. Not really a strong argument for driving store sales if you ask me. But again, you always claim logic when you find any way possible to wiggle out and make your theory stick. Such as saying that everything is p2w and anyone who says you can't win in this game is just lawyering the word.....which is funny, because it's exactly what you do. But, no since in arguing with an idiot like yourself (yes, I know, I'll be banned/warned, but seriously, this is getting ridiculous), since you will always be right in your own thick skull.
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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandir View Post
    The change makes sense if they make like a procedural quest were the hidden doors are always in a different spot. They also would have to make sure you can get through the dungeon without using the secret doors too though. So yeah.
    I don't know why secret doors( not hard quest related ones) are Not random already!?

    Back when 'instancing' was a newly heated debate I was pro-non-instance. I hated them,..felt they isolated the world,.etc,.we know the points. But with DDO, among others,..I saw the potential to have a truly crafted dungeon with breakables,..dynamic events,..etc,..

    I thought,..ok,..if it's gonna be a 'one off' dungeon, fully tailored and not subject to random outside factors,.then you can go all out and really have fun in there. You'll never have to worry about random people not on the quest breaking the momentum or camping a mob. Great.

    I see no reason whatsoever that they cannot have random secret doors,..heck ,..even randomly generated maps. Actually,..I hear they did have these at launch,..is that right? what happened?

    But this is off topic,..sry..jst a little ranty.

    Back on point: I agree with the notion that True sight should reveal 'magical' only. But the search skill should still be needed to get it open, imho. Gotta give those roguey types sumth'in to do

  11. #71
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shorlong View Post
    I seriously doubt the divining rods are making them any sort of money, considering that their only use is to find doors that may contain optionals and loot. As someone else said, if they sell 100 of those a day, they might make $40 out of the deal. Not really a strong argument for driving store sales if you ask me. But again, you always claim logic when you find any way possible to wiggle out and make your theory stick. Such as saying that everything is p2w and anyone who says you can't win in this game is just lawyering the word.....which is funny, because it's exactly what you do. But, no since in arguing with an idiot like yourself (yes, I know, I'll be banned/warned, but seriously, this is getting ridiculous), since you will always be right in your own thick skull.
    I don't have any problem with Turbine making changes to their game for game balance or because they think that something should work a certain way. Even if I disagree with them about whether that should be done, it's their call on making game balance and game play decisions, so that's fine.

    But if they're going to make a game change because the game should work a certain way, then I find it exceptionally distasteful for them to sell an exception to that in the DDO store - especially when that exception is not available to find in-game. If detect secret doors items are a problem, then the DDO store item should be a problem too. If the DDO store item isn't a problem, then the in-game item shouldn't be a problem either. Pick one option and stick with it, Turbine.
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  12. #72
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    I have another idea, turbine should fix knock, make that only if you have high enough open lock you can open that chest/door.

  13. #73
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    The main rea$on to change thi$ i$ becau$e $ecret door$ don't make cent$ when everybody can $ee them for free.
    Read the developer post quoted earlier in this thread. It explains exactly why they decided to make this change. Maybe I'm naive, but I believe his reasoning.

    The profit from this change is so small that it can never be the main reason to make this change. It costs a few hours of developer time, which is costlier than what it brings to the table. It's just not worth it from a "P2W perspective".

  14. #74
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forzah View Post
    Read the developer post quoted earlier in this thread. It explains exactly why they decided to make this change.

    The profit from this change is so small that it can never be the main reason to make this change. It costs a few hours of developer time, which is costlier than what it brings to the table. It's just not worth it from a "P2W perspective".
    If they weren't concerned about the profits from the divining rod, it wouldn't be in the store (or store exclusive).
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  15. #75
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    If they weren't concerned about the profits from the divining rod, it wouldn't be in the store (or store exclusive).
    It was already there. No reason to remove it.

  16. #76
    Community Member MartinusWyllt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enochiancub View Post
    Woo whoo! Called it!
    Nicely done! I thought you were just being charitable.

  17. #77
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forzah View Post
    It was already there. No reason to remove it.
    Sure there was.

    They changed the system so that you couldn't find all secret doors with a clickie or spell. Whether this change was good or bad is irrelevant. Turbine made the change and stated it was for the good of the game balance.

    Yet, they still sell you an item that will completely negate this new balance they have created? Cash trumps game balance to them. This is the part I disapprove of. Either the game needs this new balanced change or it doesn't. Selling a store item to completely negate the "game balancing" change just shoudn't happen. It's like saying that all you players that don't use the store need to operate under these new rules, but those of you that want to pay us can keep playing like you used to. Very poor form.

    If the change was truly necessary for game balance, the item should have been removed. If the item is deemed to be fine, then why the change to begin with?

    Some may say this is pay to win. I see it slightly differently. This is pay to play with a different set of rules, which should never be an option.
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  18. #78
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    I have another idea, turbine should fix knock, make that only if you have high enough open lock you can open that chest/door.
    I'd like to see Knock changed so that Open Locks +skill items apply to the spell. That might require a change to the spell's base DC, but I do think it would be appropriate for such an iconic spell to have it actually work on most level appropriate locks
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  19. #79
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zDragonz View Post
    no I want to solo.
    Solo with a rogue?

    I'm just...uh...spitballing that one.

  20. #80
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zDragonz View Post
    We do not need you. But the game got dumbed down and I guess we do, but you are not needed. True seeing is True seeing. Period.
    Ok.

    Then why are you complaining then?

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