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  1. #261
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deuxanes View Post
    Multi-classing as it is encountered in DDO had always favoured melee builds..
    That's weird I remember splashing levels of Monk and Artificer into my Cleric and Favored Soul lives... traps, evasion, repeater, and boosted force damage for my blade barrier... All pre enhancement pass

    those were wonderful lives where I had excellent self healings but, didn't need it since I could basically just run to the end of a quest laying blade barriers as I went everything that followed died.

    I used my Greensteel repeaters for some long range auto attack damage when I was actually healing parties in Shroud all of the once I ran Shroud per TR life.

    Most quests I never healed any of the melee they we too busy chasing monsters that I agroed from range with the repeater long before we got to them but died in my blade barriers before the melees could reach them.

    ah those were the lives.

    I remember splashed
    Rogue/Wizard
    Rogue/Monk/Druid
    Rogue/Ranger.
    Fighter/Barb
    Fighter/Paladin
    Fighter/Rogue.
    Fighter/Rogue/Monk
    Fighter/Arti/Monk
    Arti/Ranger


    Remember doing my first go as a Pure Fighter my with Artificer was pure and I played a Pure Sorc.
    Last edited by Tanngiostr; 12-15-2013 at 02:54 PM.

  2. #262
    The Hatchery zwiebelring's Avatar
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    DDO is very limitted compared to a pnp campaign where actually anything can happen in addition to fights. But in DnD it always helped to be capable of fighting and especially in DDO you mostly face combat relevant threats. And that is why splashing 2 lvl.s of a class for some defensive features might always be a plus. Mostly when you are soloing.

    I agree on melee characters always benefit from reasonable multiclassing.
    Characters on Orien:
    Wanzer/ Klingtanz/ Incanta Superior/ Mercantus

  3. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakHar View Post
    And they can all solo EE. because THAT is how you make a team game.

    Making a team game means everyone should be able to solo, wouldn't it be the opposite, to make a team game, make it so no one can solo, cause if everyone can solo, most will, like we have now, not like the early days, where few people could solo the hard stuff, so we teamed up lot.

    Dont get me wrong, i like the current balance pretty well, my good guys can solo EN and some EH without grinding gear every second, and for EE i group up, for me, multi classing is the bread and butter of DDO, take that away too much and i lose interest fast, making wacky builds is something i really enjoy doing, some work, and some don't, its fun to see which.

  4. #264
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Default Waxing nostalgic here, so feel free to ignore...

    Quote Originally Posted by ric0 View Post
    Making a team game means everyone should be able to solo, wouldn't it be the opposite, to make a team game, make it so no one can solo, cause if everyone can solo, most will, like we have now, not like the early days, where few people could solo the hard stuff, so we teamed up lot.
    Others may disagree, but I really miss when DDO was designed as a party centric game, and soloing Elite quests at level was an accomplishment to be strived for. There's still little hints and reminders of this former era of the game hanging around, like on the quest entry screen where you select the *ahem* "difficulty level" of the quest (which has really been reduced to the "which first time XP bonus would you like?" selection screen) that says things like - "Extreme challenge, balanced party recommended" - but it's just an artifact of a former age... Balanced parties have been replaced by Swiss Army knife toons that can trap, CC, DPS & self heal. Quests that once required parties got Crucibled to be super soloable - looking at you, "updated" Tor!

    Do I still play? Obviously. Do I have these Swiss Army toons? Yup. The game has changed, and I've altered my stuff along with it, but I honestly feel that far too many people - and especially the game developers - have confused the words "new" and "improved." The two are not synonymous, and the former never guarantees the latter.

    Quote Originally Posted by ric0 View Post
    Dont get me wrong, i like the current balance pretty well, my good guys can solo EN and some EH without grinding gear every second, and for EE i group up, for me, multi classing is the bread and butter of DDO, take that away too much and i lose interest fast, making wacky builds is something i really enjoy doing, some work, and some don't, its fun to see which.
    I mostly agree with ^this.^ I say mostly, because I do like that I can make some funky flavor builds that function just fine in Normal or Wven Hard content; it's when those same builds work in Elite that I shake my head...

    Pardon the above digression, I read something that got me stroking my beard for a bit there...
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  5. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by ric0 View Post
    Making a team game means everyone should be able to solo, wouldn't it be the opposite, to make a team game, make it so no one can solo, cause if everyone can solo, most will, like we have now, not like the early days, where few people could solo the hard stuff, so we teamed up lot.

    Dont get me wrong, i like the current balance pretty well, my good guys can solo EN and some EH without grinding gear every second, and for EE i group up, for me, multi classing is the bread and butter of DDO, take that away too much and i lose interest fast, making wacky builds is something i really enjoy doing, some work, and some don't, its fun to see which.
    I could not have made my sarcasm more obvious, yet you missed it.

  6. #266
    Community Member Plantman81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiliconScout View Post
    ROFL fight club ... if the dev's don't know about the multiclass power imbalance by now then honestly they aren't worthy of working on the game. The only way you could not know that the vast majority of the builds are better off multiclassed is if you don't actually play the game (or only play on some sort of godmode dev account).

    I don't think they need to "nerf" multiclass per se. I think what they need to do is even out some of the front loading on existing classes. As an example if monk and rogue had to wait an extra level to get evasion would it really make any difference? To the monk / rogue probably not but having to give up even 1 extra level on a caster means you are suddenly looking at losing 9th level spells on a sorc, not a good trade. This is just one simple example of how a minor tweak in the front loading could dramatically change build options.

    That said, the bigger thing they need to do is make pure builds have actual advantages. The capstones need to be buffed moderately to considerably in most cases. They should also allow pure builds to hit tier 5 in more than 1 enhancement tree.

    Providing a better buff at capstone AND a second enhancement tree at tier 5 for pure builds would go a long way towards making a solid argument for "staying pure".

    The only class that is benefited by staying pure is a DC caster. Every other build can gain something more than what they give up with taking a couple of levels of something else. Hell by Cleric 18/ Ftr2 is a far better healer than my pure cleric simply because he's more survivable and his DPS is actually higher on the whole. It's crazy I know but it's true. The only thing I give up is some spell points (that I can easily afford to lose) and divine intervention which is OK but honestly not big enough to give up my tower shield + Shield Mastery + improved Shield Mastery + stalwart defender. the extra AC and PRR means I can stay in the fight to drop the heal needed or that res / raise without risking my neck.

    And honestly I would probably gain a LOT more by taking 2 levels of monk rather than fighter but in this case it was a flavor / build test choice.

    You want me to really think about staying pure on my cleric, then make his capstone something meaningful. Let's say +4 levels turning undead, +75 Spell power on light and healing. And when that is coupled that with the ability to have 2 enhancement trees at level 5, say both the aura and say divine power running at the same time, it is a choice that is harder to make.

    These are the sorts of things you need to look at if you want the "pure" build to mean anything. They had promised with the Enhancement Pass that capstones would be worth it and being pure would be advantageous but honestly the ONLY time that is true is a pure DC caster wizard. A sorc .. might have a reason to stay pure but +20 Spell power really isn't enough for most to make a noticable difference, make it +50 and suddenly that DPS caster really needs to think about whether evasion is worth the boost in DPS.
    I couldn't have said it better myself. Totally 'signed'.
    Respect your home plane of existence. It is unique and cannot be replaced.

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