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  1. #201
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    Oh I didn't fail, no worries. He just didn't realize the win conditions of the game. All the better for the peanut gallery.

  2. #202
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    You guys never learn.... STOP ASKING FOR NERFS, next could be your toon!

  3. #203
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    If you have “more power” by simply splashing that – by default – is a game balance issue.

    Hence the need for a nerf to multiclassing.

    Wow…please tell me my tax dollars didn’t pay for your edumacation…please…
    I don't do it for the power!

    I'm not your FOTM multi-class I build my own and I build for versatility, survivability, and for dps.

    It not my fault that my multi-class build has "more power" than your pure soul stone.

  4. #204
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    Yeah.
    The point was melee DPS.

    You sit there and tell me someone who spends all of their time and effort training to be the best battlefield soldier should not have top-notch melee DPS because…well…someone who is a master of every frickin weapon that you can get your hands on should not do lots of damage with them.
    all the best battlefield Soldiers are Multi-class and are experts with every weapon they train with.

  5. #205
    Community Member zachxr100's Avatar
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    Why would we nerf multiclassing when they could simply buff purity, I mean i finally fell to the dark side and gave up on being pure for the fact that I hate the iconic class choices and I don't plan on wasting 12 hearts to remove that ******** first class of all of them. I would love something that would actually increase the potential of a pure class that can convince me to loose my **** ton of saves, str, evasion, dodge, and damage, and did i mention saves to go back to a pure class, i'd rather not see a nerf in general nerfing is bad, and will just anger more people and turbine will loose customers, instead buffing of the pures should be done keeping these multi-class builds still viable as they ever where, but also making the pure builds more viable.

    And don't say that the pure builds aren't viable, as they are, they just aren't as viable, the only ones i say the pure build is in desperate need of a revamp or support as they sure can't solo epic elite is as well as other is bards and barbarians. Although bard isn't supposed to be able to they are by design a support character.
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  6. #206
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanngiostr View Post
    all the best battlefield Soldiers are Multi-class and are experts with every weapon they train with.
    Weapons, as defined by DDO, are not classes.

    Weak argument. Try harder...much harder...

  7. #207
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    Fine, since this whole topic is troll bait:

    Multiclass is the reward for trying different things.

    Pure classes are for people too lazy to character build.

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    Weapons, as defined by DDO, are not classes.

    Weak argument. Try harder...much harder...

    So people who train as Medics and Infantry wouldn't count as multi class, your argument is the weak one, his comment was spot on IMO, soldiers tend to be much more versatile and multi-classed than most other people, and believe me, you dont pass the training if your not an expert!

  9. #209
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ric0 View Post
    So people who train as Medics and Infantry wouldn't count as multi class, your argument is the weak one, his comment was spot on IMO, soldiers tend to be much more versatile and multi-classed than most other people, and believe me, you dont pass the training if your not an expert!
    A solider IS a fighter silly wabbit.

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakHar View Post
    Fine, since this whole topic is troll bait:

    Multiclass is the reward for trying different things.

    Pure classes are for people too lazy to character build.
    I'll take that bait.

    When the new Enhancement tree allowed only three trees, instead of six, multiclass players were too lazy and unwilling to try different things because they wanted everything on the same plate.

  11. #211
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanngiostr View Post
    all the best battlefield Soldiers are Multi-class and are experts with every weapon they train with.
    Soldiers training with weapons would be defined as a pure class.

    Soldiers who take 18 levels of soldier, and then splash 2 levels of Insurance Salesman will be good as a soldier, and sucky at selling insurance...but far less sucky than if they were never trained at all.

  12. #212
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ric0 View Post
    So people who train as Medics and Infantry wouldn't count as multi class, your argument is the weak one, his comment was spot on IMO, soldiers tend to be much more versatile and multi-classed than most other people, and believe me, you dont pass the training if your not an expert!
    Ok, go to your buddy the medic if you have cancer or if you need a tumor removed as opposed to a full-fledged doctor.

    This is probably the stupidest case made thus far for pure vs. multi-class.

  13. #213
    Community Member deahamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    Ok, go to your buddy the medic if you have cancer or if you need a tumor removed as opposed to a full-fledged doctor.

    This is probably the stupidest case made thus far for pure vs. multi-class.
    Assuming that your comparison isn't completely flawed:

    If I splash 6 level clerics why would you think I'm going to be as good at healing as a level 20 cleric? Fool.

    Now if I go 17cleric/2monk/1fighter or whatever... I'm going to be a great healer and good DPS. What would that be equivalent in real life? Real doctors going into the army and doing the soldier training. There are such cases. In which case, yeah, you can get the field doctor to take a look at your cancer.

    Now of course, if he spends more time in the field, he gets even better at fighting and maybe slightly less informed on the newest technologies in medicine. That's like going 12/6/2 with 12 being cleric for example. Still a damn good doctor, but if he suspects anything serious, he'll refer you to a specialist.

    ---
    Real issue with your post:

    Now go get your gynaecologist to see if your tumour is cancer? Oh what's that, he can't. That's a real problem with your comparison, doctors are specialists for a reason and a smart general practitioner will always send you for tests and a specialist. Use better comparisons next time.
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  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by oradafu View Post
    I'll take that bait.

    When the new Enhancement tree allowed only three trees, instead of six, multiclass players were too lazy and unwilling to try different things because they wanted everything on the same plate.
    I don't care, they allow six. That's the reality. Pure builders are being lazy. Your "what if they kept the three trees" is about as useful as a prostitute to a eunuch.

  15. #215
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakHar View Post
    Fine, since this whole topic is troll bait:

    Multiclass is the reward for trying different things.

    Pure classes are for people too lazy to character build.
    Multiclass is for those who want to diversity. Pure is for those who want to specialize.

    I know that we live in a world where when the word "diversity" is thrown out there, we all think unicorns, rainbows, and mana falling from heaven. But the reality is that diversity is actually counterproductive in many ways. And doing things pure for the sake of diversity means that you are ignoring one thing for the sake of another.

    I have two kids: one who is good at everything, and another one who has deficits on some areas, and genuine off-the-chart strengths in another. Neither one is smarter than the other, but once cannot compete with the other in , say, oratory. And the reverse it true in , say, science. However, using the addle-brained definitions being provided here the assumption should be that the one who is talented across a broad range of skills is somehow "better" than the one who specializes. In that case, you have a lot of people talking, planning, and writing about going to the moon, but will never get there because the people who specialize in the actual science skills fall below the bar that was set by some idiotic, arbitrary measure.

    The issue is, and always has been that since the enhancement pass, the capstone means virtually nothing. If the fighter class peaks at lvl 12, that is a huge issue.

    People are all up in arms about nerfing multiclass because they have some investment in their builds (which they shouldn't do anyways because Turbine changes stuff frequently and invalidating them regularly), have found a good thing and don't want it upset (which, as I mentioned already, the game changes regularly so being so invested in as specific build is kinda stupid), or honestly think that being diverse is somehow better than what it is, which is kinda dumb.

    Finally, multi-class is not a "reward" for nothing. There is nothing special about you as an individual because you multi-class your build. Likewise, a reward is something exclusive for doing something - any idiot can multi-class. That same idiot can make a pure build too. The concept of "reward" is irrelevant.

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    Soldiers training with weapons would be defined as a pure class.

    Soldiers who take 18 levels of soldier, and then splash 2 levels of Insurance Salesman will be good as a soldier, and sucky at selling insurance...but far less sucky than if they were never trained at all.
    That's interesting.

    My cousin who did 22 years in the Argyll's still insists that some of the chefs he knew were the best shots. They might not be as good as the highest trained snipers who obviously get specialised gear, but they were better than any infanty soldier.

    So are the chefs multi-classed or pure?

    Oh, and I bet they make a darn fine soufflé?.

  17. #217
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deahamlet View Post
    Assuming that your comparison isn't completely flawed:

    If I splash 6 level clerics why would you think I'm going to be as good at healing as a level 20 cleric? Fool.
    Splash 2 rogue, and you can do any of the traps that a lvl 20 rogue can do.

    Nice try...

    Quote Originally Posted by deahamlet View Post
    Now if I go 17cleric/2monk/1fighter or whatever... I'm going to be a great healer and good DPS. What would that be equivalent in real life? Real doctors going into the army and doing the soldier training. There are such cases. In which case, yeah, you can get the field doctor to take a look at your cancer.
    If you honestly think that someone being in the army somehow makes them better at curing your cancer, then more power to you.

    And if you think that someone who was in the military until well into the thirties, then took 4 years of college, another 4 of med school, then the prerequisite number of years in an internship, residency, and fellowship is going to have the same depth of knowledge and experience that she same person who started at 18 is going to have at the age of 50, you are seriously, seriously deluding yourself.

    However, I wouldn't be running to the guy who started at 18 on his path to being a doctor to show me how to field-service a weapon either.

    Quote Originally Posted by deahamlet View Post
    Now of course, if he spends more time in the field, he gets even better at fighting and maybe slightly less informed on the newest technologies in medicine. That's like going 12/6/2 with 12 being cleric for example. Still a damn good doctor, but if he suspects anything serious, he'll refer you to a specialist.
    Tell me, where is it written that people in the military cannot go into oncology? (Here's a hint: there isn't anything.)

    This is one of those instances where an argument gets worse and worse the more is it explained. Do yourself a favor - stop digging that hole.

    ---
    Quote Originally Posted by deahamlet View Post
    Real issue with your post:

    Now go get your gynaecologist to see if your tumour is cancer? Oh what's that, he can't. That's a real problem with your comparison, doctors are specialists for a reason and a smart general practitioner will always send you for tests and a specialist. Use better comparisons next time.
    I think the real issue here is that in your fervor to try and win an argument - and you are still WAY behind in that area - you've decided to obfuscate classes with prestige enhancements.

    Oncologist and gynecologist would be consider prestige trees.

    Doctor and special forces medic would be considered pure vs. multi-class.

    Like with someone else, please tell me you are not a public sector employee, making a living off off my hard-earned tax dollars with this type of "logic" and "rationale"...

  18. #218
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    I am starting (just starting) to think that some people are not actually playing to get personal fun but are trying their best to ruin everyone elses.

    You can solo, you can find a guild for pures, why the heck do you care if someone somewhere doing another instance is doing better than you ?

    BTW - google the meaning of "scrub", pretty sure it applies perfectly in this situation.

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    Multiclass is for those who want to diversity. Pure is for those who want to specialize.
    Why try and categorise people as one or the other? In this blended society in which we live, there is room for all.

    Oh yeah, and if my main has done a pure life of every class in the game and a whole stack of multi-classes does that make me a diverse specialist?

  20. #220
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    That's interesting.

    My cousin who did 22 years in the Argyll's still insists that some of the chefs he knew were the best shots. They might not be as good as the highest trained snipers who obviously get specialised gear, but they were better than any infanty soldier.

    So are the chefs multi-classed or pure?

    Oh, and I bet they make a darn fine soufflé?.
    That's nice.

    Then why didn't they become snipers?

    Answer: they either decided to be a chef, or didn't have what it took to be a good sniper. But being a good sniper is more than just being a "good shot," by someone's definition...22 years in the military or not.

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