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  1. #81
    Community Member TDarkchylde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    We definitely agree that Bards are in need of some love. That was, in fact, a focus of this patch, in which we:

    - Reduced the singing time of a lot of Bard songs, some by more than half (Including Song of Capering, which was an important one for a lot of Bards. The total singing time on SoC went from five seconds to two, and the effect should be kicking off faster). Most Enhancement-based Bard songs were affected by the reduction in playing times.
    This one specifically annoys me. Yes, you reduced the time required to sing these songs, but it is absolutely no help when all of them share a ten second cooldown with themselves, much less with Inspire Greatness. All it does is leave me more time to twiddle my thumbs while waiting on these shared cooldowns to conclude. No one is going to wait for me to sing six Vigors, a Trance, a Song of Arcane Might, six Sustaining Songs (please fix this), an Inspire Greatness, an Inspire Courage, an Inspire Heroics, and an Inspire Competence for all except me - and that's just in a six man group! In a raid? Bard songs are useless. By the time you're done singing, assuming you can get eleven other people to actually wait for songs, the songs on the first person are expiring!

    Which update do we get to await the unchaining of cooldowns that's needed to come since Spellsinger and Warchanter were first introduced?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    - Rebuilt Victory Song entirely, turning it into a toggle that provides full Base Attack Bonus at all times. Previously, it was supposed to grant it only for a few seconds when Inspire Courage was used.
    Barely noticed, Warchanter is still underpowered compared to Spellsinger, much less other Arcane PrEs. With the introduction of Eldritch Knight, it needs a serious rework.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    - Fixed Musical Studies, which provides much-needed Bard songs in Heroic levels.
    About time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    - Fixed Song of Heroism to apply in an AOE, as well as give the (much longer) duration it was supposed to.
    About time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    - Fixed Inspire Recklessness, which was not giving enough Doublestrike in its third rank.
    About time, even though some people still won't take the song, especially with the Fortification changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    - Cleaned up a variety of bugs and feedback issues with various other Bardic abilities.
    Which?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    We recognize that some of you are unhappy with the fix to Spellsong Vigor; the intent was not to make Bards weaker, but to fix a bug in an existing ability that was not working as intended. Prior to the U19 Enhancement pass, it was single target, and the description has always indicated this, even between U19 and today's patch.

    We also recognize that Bards are still in need of additional love, and we thank you for your continued feedback; we are currently weighing some interesting Bard-related things to see if they fit into plans for next year.
    To be honest, I thought y'all had finally got the point that Bards were weaksauce and fixed Vigor, without changing the description. You know, a stealth fix? To give Bards some love.

    Wasn't really surprised that it got taken away though.

    Here's a hint I'd suggest for future development of Bards. Once an update, if it seems just a bit too OP for Bards? It's probably perfect, let them have that slightly OP shiny. They need a few. Including AoE Vigor. Or at least code it to work with an Epic Elyd Edge's Inspiring Echoes so it can become AoE.
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  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    We definitely agree that Bards are in need of some love. That was, in fact, a focus of this patch, in which we:

    - Reduced the singing time of a lot of Bard songs, some by more than half (Including Song of Capering, which was an important one for a lot of Bards. The total singing time on SoC went from five seconds to two, and the effect should be kicking off faster). Most Enhancement-based Bard songs were affected by the reduction in playing times.
    reducing the singing time is great and all, but the majority of my bards songs share the same cool down timer. i can not conceive of any reason why any song should share a cool down timer with another song. give each song its own timer and i'll be a happier.
    Server: Sarlona. Characters: Rackoribs Barbequed, Brautwurst Flamegrilled, Porkloin Flameseared


  3. #83
    Community Member AzB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don1966 View Post
    reducing the singing time is great and all, but the majority of my bards songs share the same cool down timer. i can not conceive of any reason why any song should share a cool down timer with another song. give each song its own timer and i'll be a happier.
    To go one further, why should any song have a substantial cooldown? Now that vigor and trance have become single target spells, it takes bleedin' forever to cast them on multiple party members. How about a raid? It's enough to make a bard run screaming into the darkness.

    The good news is that most other players aren't too worried about any bard songs anyway, so if you don't sing them they simply go unnoticed.

    I mostly just sing for myself now anyway. My bard needs the buffs, most of the monkcher/wf arcanes, etc don't need any of them anyway. They obliterate everything nearly instantly and are completely self sufficient and immune to most everything.

  4. #84
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    Bards are not meant to get love but to give some. And if they give some they'll get some in return. A "pure" spellsinger hardly ever kills any monster, is unable to solo any quest but it's value increases with party size and quest difficulty. In "endgame" EE quests he's the capstone of the party, the party's most important member.

    I'm disapointed they nerfed it because bards were rather rare in game and now it will be even more rare. DDO needs social builds because it's more fun to play with balanced and inter-dependant parties, and not parties which are merely an addition of big-DPS-high-saves-self-healing clones.

  5. #85
    Community Member NovaNZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    We definitely agree that Bards are in need of some love. That was, in fact, a focus of this patch, in which we:

    - Reduced the singing time of a lot of Bard songs, some by more than half (Including Song of Capering, which was an important one for a lot of Bards. The total singing time on SoC went from five seconds to two, and the effect should be kicking off faster). Most Enhancement-based Bard songs were affected by the reduction in playing times.

    - Rebuilt Victory Song entirely, turning it into a toggle that provides full Base Attack Bonus at all times. Previously, it was supposed to grant it only for a few seconds when Inspire Courage was used.

    - Fixed Musical Studies, which provides much-needed Bard songs in Heroic levels.

    - Fixed Song of Heroism to apply in an AOE, as well as give the (much longer) duration it was supposed to.

    - Fixed Inspire Recklessness, which was not giving enough Doublestrike in its third rank.

    - Cleaned up a variety of bugs and feedback issues with various other Bardic abilities.

    We recognize that some of you are unhappy with the fix to Spellsong Vigor; the intent was not to make Bards weaker, but to fix a bug in an existing ability that was not working as intended. Prior to the U19 Enhancement pass, it was single target, and the description has always indicated this, even between U19 and today's patch.

    We also recognize that Bards are still in need of additional love, and we thank you for your continued feedback; we are currently weighing some interesting Bard-related things to see if they fit into plans for next year.
    Bollocks!

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    Last edited by NovaNZ; 01-11-2014 at 10:00 PM.
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    Who wouldn't want to see Flizik the dwarf jamming to 'Devil went down to georgia' and smoking a pipe ...

  6. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by TDarkchylde View Post
    This one specifically annoys me. Yes, you reduced the time required to sing these songs, but it is absolutely no help when all of them share a ten second cooldown with themselves, much less with Inspire Greatness.

    Which update do we get to await the unchaining of cooldowns that's needed to come since Spellsinger and Warchanter were first introduced?
    In Update 21, almost every Bard Song has been given its own cooldown timer. In addition, several single-target songs now have shorter cooldowns.

  7. #87
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  8. #88
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    In Update 21, almost every Bard Song has been given its own cooldown timer. In addition, several single-target songs now have shorter cooldowns.
    Ok, rather than make an overly disparaging remark because players have bug reported this quality of life issue for 9-10 years... (and we are very grateful that it is FINALLY being done)

    Why did it take so long? Is there a high overhead on timers?

  9. #89
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    In Update 21, almost every Bard Song has been given its own cooldown timer. In addition, several single-target songs now have shorter cooldowns.
    this is great news!

    on the topic of cooldown timers the Artificer spell Deadly Weapons (which in most situations every melee character is going to ask for) cooldown is too long. Its a buff with a single target. What is the issue that it must be so long? Its not like being able to buff the party faster is going to break the game.

    please give Deadly Weapons a shorter cooldown timer also.

    Thanks again for the Bard songs!

  10. #90
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanngiostr View Post
    this is great news!

    on the topic of cooldown timers the Artificer spell Deadly Weapons (which in most situations every melee character is going to ask for) cooldown is too long. Its a buff with a single target. What is the issue that it must be so long? Its not like being able to buff the party faster is going to break the game.

    please give Deadly Weapons a shorter cooldown timer also.

    Thanks again for the Bard songs!
    Deadly is not worth pre-casting; a good artificer will throw one on zoning in and will cast the rest while moving with the party.

    If you are waiting at the start of the quest for someone casting Deadly, you would be better off running without it.

    That said I think all spells that are primarily cast out of combat should not have cooldowns.


    On Spellsong - yes I think we all know that Vigor being AoE was a bug, but it was an example of a bug that made the game better. Please return it to AoE, and make it cost 2 songs if you feel that there is a balance issue.
    I don't have a zerging problem.

    I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.

  11. #91

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    Vigor is suppose to be aoe, the bug is now it is not. If you look up vigor you can see that its description talks of mass cure and how it is for the entire party. I brought this problem up within the first hour of the last update and they have said a fix already exists but will only be implemented in the next update.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    In Update 21, almost every Bard Song has been given its own cooldown timer. In addition, several single-target songs now have shorter cooldowns.
    I had to admit that when it was said there will be additional love for the bard I was hopeful but skeptical at the same time. But thanks for not losing your attention for bard and trying to re-balance this class.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kobold_Ranger_Black View Post
    Vigor is suppose to be aoe, the bug is now it is not. If you look up vigor you can see that its description talks of mass cure and how it is for the entire party. I brought this problem up within the first hour of the last update and they have said a fix already exists but will only be implemented in the next update.
    You're confusing spellsong vigor with sustaining song.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    In Update 21, almost every Bard Song has been given its own cooldown timer. In addition, several single-target songs now have shorter cooldowns.
    While this is truly awesome and my bard thanks you VERY much for it... she seriously misses the AoE Spellsong Vigor. Please reconsider re-flipping the switch that put it back (and added Sustaining Song) to single target, and change the description to match.
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  15. #95
    Community Member AzB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phot View Post
    Bards are not meant to get love but to give some. And if they give some they'll get some in return. A "pure" spellsinger hardly ever kills any monster, is unable to solo any quest but it's value increases with party size and quest difficulty. In "endgame" EE quests he's the capstone of the party, the party's most important member.

    I'm disapointed they nerfed it because bards were rather rare in game and now it will be even more rare. DDO needs social builds because it's more fun to play with balanced and inter-dependant parties, and not parties which are merely an addition of big-DPS-high-saves-self-healing clones.
    That's nice and all, but some of us like to play our bards more aggressively. If you want to stand back and "help" and consider that to be the end all of your existence, that's great. But please don't suggest that you are speaking for everyone.

    I agree that balanced and inter-dependant parties are fun and that the game is supposed to be social. I always prefer to play in parties when I can. But sometimes, when I have time to play, there are no parties. So I'm supposed to log off and do something productive? The reality is that good or bad, the days when co-operative parties were common is gone. You are expected to have some degree of self sufficiency, and by my standards my toons should be able to solo as well as contribute in party.

    The other side of the coin is that this is a video game that is derived from Dungeons and Dragons. A bard translates very poorly to a video game because most of the bard skills are based on interaction with other players and npcs. 99% of the interaction in DDO is hitting someone else over the head with something heavy and sharp. The subtleties don't exist.

    So be prepared for the bard tin DDO to be significantly different than PnP bards. Open you mind a bit and see the possibilities rather than only seeing what you want to see.

  16. #96
    Community Member Ailaesaedol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    In Update 21, almost every Bard Song has been given its own cooldown timer. In addition, several single-target songs now have shorter cooldowns.
    That is awesome! Cant wiat, since you guys combined SS and Virt... *ugh* (why?! but anyways...) getting the songs out has been an absolute chore.

    Any chance on having Sustaining Song influenced by either Sonic or Positive spell power? This would help with making scale to epic levels, even if it only counted half your perform ranks or half overall sonic spell power, it'd be a great addition.

  17. #97
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    I think a good way to improve bard would be to allow them create a song from blank song.

    let me explain, it would be a clicky that you can create by combining song.

    For exemple combine
    -spell song trance
    -Inspire courage
    -Ironskin Chant
    -Inspire Recklessness

    this clicky ability will cast the 4 song in same time to allow bard to buff without wasting player time and still doing the job. Of course this ability will expand the same amount of song as if you where casting the song one by one.

  18. #98
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sephiroth_k2 View Post
    I think a good way to improve bard would be to allow them create a song from blank song.

    let me explain, it would be a clicky that you can create by combining song.

    For exemple combine
    -spell song trance
    -Inspire courage
    -Ironskin Chant
    -Inspire Recklessness

    this clicky ability will cast the 4 song in same time to allow bard to buff without wasting player time and still doing the job. Of course this ability will expand the same amount of song as if you where casting the song one by one.
    Won't happen. Turbine doesn't want to open the door to bot programming, even in a limited fashion.

    You are dependent upon 3rd party software in order to do this type of thing.

    Other wise, I wish they would allow programmable aliases, such that we could call out hotbar and button to string together hot bar actions. This would be easier and much more flexable than a click button setup as that would also require additional GUI menus which the engine may or may not allow.

    Engine development is separate from DDO or LOTRO, which is the reason why it took so bloody long for a new mouse pointer and the like to come about. (incase you didn't know.)

  19. #99
    Community Member whereispowderedsilve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    In Update 21, almost every Bard Song has been given its own cooldown timer. In addition, several single-target songs now have shorter cooldowns.
    Holy _____ I think this is working as intended I just tested this on Lama. O_O! I'm so happy! Wheeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!
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  20. #100
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