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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standal View Post
    I will note that having my entire questing schedule determined by vcomm rates really is not appealing. We already have the 6 million required karma as a restriction requiring us to run the whole ETR life in a destiny that we may not really enjoy or be built for. If they ever come up with some decent end loot this only taking vcomms as end rewards will get old quickly.
    I completely agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matuse View Post
    Another virtue of putting comms into end chests: DQ1, VoN5, which presently give 0 comms, would have comms.
    Good point.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilkofDrasnia View Post
    Just got done running claw EH though as I had to solo it, wife was too busy with our son tonight.

    It gave me 15 coms. Will have to try again tomorrow or so and see if I can get it done on EE.
    Hmm, more of a random bug, then?
    <seemingly offensive Army of Darkness quote>

  2. #42
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dandonk View Post
    Thank you for the positive feedback, I appreciate it.

    I agree that 2500 seems a much more reasonable number. I suppose I cannot claim "definitive" results yet, since VIP bonus is high atm, but I don't think even with it at normal levels I could get much higher than maybe 2200.

    I find the tying of comms so strictly and purely to quest difficulty and level is counterproductive on several levels.

    1) Optionals.
    When comms are so exhausting to grind, comms/min is king - so optionals have much lesser value, and more people will start to zerg through the quests instead of enjoying the complete content in each quest. I don't think this is good for the game's longevity for each player, in all likelihood this'll lead to faster burnout.

    2) Length of quests.
    Some quests take far longer than others, and will therefore be avoided by comm grinders. This will again narrow the scope of many players' questing.

    3) Challenges.
    These are already very seldom seen in LFM, and most people I talk to run them once if at all. Since these give no comms at all, they're being further marginalized.

    4) Areas.
    I do not particularly like doing areas myself, but some people here on the forums seem to, and I see LFMs for it regularly. These people are getting punishd for playing the game "the right way".

    5) XP bonuses.
    Buying tomes, being VIP for xp, buying ship xp buff for TP, buying pots... all these lose value if you aren't prepared to fork over the fairly large amount of cash each life.

    All in all, I think that since comms are such an important (at the moment, the only) part of the end game being so restrictive about how you get them is overly punishing of people playing the game outside "the right way" (as seen by Turbine). It marginalizes a lot of content, and lessens the value of some TP purchases. I think it needs to be rethought in a major way.
    I, and many others, made basically these same points when the idea was first proposed, when it was on Lamannia, when it hit live, and have continued to do so. The devs have, for the most part, just completely ignored virtually the entire player base saying the same things.

    You would think that, after obliterating what little endgame DDO had left, they would do something to spur some enthusiasm, but apparently someone at Turbine wants to make a quick buck NOW, rather than make a real effort to keep people playing. And, as you pointed out, it's even more puzzling, because people were buying XP tomes, and pots, and such, and would absolutely have been buying more with an ETR system, if this extra wrinkle hadn't been thrown over the whole thing.

    As if grinding out 6.6 million XP wasn't enough of a chore for piddling bonuses like +1 to saves and +3 PRR, you can't even do that and ETR without spending a couple thousand Turbine points, or grinding away even more. It's stupid. Really and utterly thoughtless. And the only comment we get on the matter is, "We're considering it, but we want to make sure that we don't lower the grind too much now, or for the future." Idiots! Mind-blowing stupidity.
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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    I, and many others, made basically these same points when the idea was first proposed, when it was on Lamannia, when it hit live, and have continued to do so. The devs have, for the most part, just completely ignored virtually the entire player base saying the same things.
    I know you did, and many others did as well. We were all told that we should wait and see it on live, that there were no problems in the proposed system and we'd see that when we actually tried it instead of theorizing about it.

    So I did try it, twice. And these are my conclusions, and my thoughts about why it is bad and why it marginalizes some forms of gaming.

    I hope that posts like yours and mine can contribute to making a better ETR/ITR system. At the least, I had to try.

    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    You would think that, after obliterating what little endgame DDO had left, they would do something to spur some enthusiasm, but apparently someone at Turbine wants to make a quick buck NOW, rather than make a real effort to keep people playing. And, as you pointed out, it's even more puzzling, because people were buying XP tomes, and pots, and such, and would absolutely have been buying more with an ETR system, if this extra wrinkle hadn't been thrown over the whole thing.
    I completely agree. Destroying endgame, and making the substitute this bad and restricting, it is simply not good for the game.

    And yes, I would definitely buy pots and tomes for my epic chars, but that is simply not going to happen now. 1300-1500 TP for these small bonuses... no, I'm not going to keep paying that.

    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    As if grinding out 6.6 million XP wasn't enough of a chore for piddling bonuses like +1 to saves and +3 PRR, you can't even do that and ETR without spending a couple thousand Turbine points, or grinding away even more. It's stupid. Really and utterly thoughtless. And the only comment we get on the matter is, "We're considering it, but we want to make sure that we don't lower the grind too much now, or for the future." Idiots! Mind-blowing stupidity.
    Agreed.

    I'm glad they're considering it, but this needs to be acted on sooner rather than later. There is no other form of endgame, so to keep players playing, this needs to be made more playerfriendly.
    <seemingly offensive Army of Darkness quote>

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dandonk View Post
    My conclusion after round 2 is much the same as the first: The numbers needed for a heart is nowhere near the stated "run EH daily from 20 to 28 and get close to 4200" that was said by the devs.
    Ideally the comm needed should be set that you could reasonably do 20-28 and get about half the comms needed, so if you buy the heart you'd see a heart from valor every second cap. That's reasonable if you're doing ETRs back to back rather then wait and scrape together a heart before ETRing again.

    I have a similar experience. I'm doing most of my runs in EH (at least now when I'm on a synergistic destiny) and have about 2k comms on a guy since Valor started dropping.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by patang01 View Post
    Ideally the comm needed should be set that you could reasonably do 20-28 and get about half the comms needed, so if you buy the heart you'd see a heart from valor every second cap. That's reasonable if you're doing ETRs back to back rather then wait and scrape together a heart before ETRing again.
    That is not what they promised when the system was launched.
    <seemingly offensive Army of Darkness quote>

  6. #46

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    I somewhat lack the EE ability, so I EN when Solo (grinding Primal with a Q-Staff Fighter/Monk) and can normally EH with a group. I have been in 3 EE quests, they take quite a while again melees. First life through I had roughly 1700 comms (taken as EVERY END REWARD). Currently level 22 (mid way through) and at 2436 comms. As a more casual gamer (working on HTR 11), it would take me roughly 2 times through Epics to make a heart, this would include skipping Slayers/Explorer/Rares/Challenges. So the new end game-run to quest, zerg, run to next quest, zerg, don't farm, run a quest once every 2 days to insure the Ransack does not happen.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gljosh View Post
    I somewhat lack the EE ability, so I EN when Solo (grinding Primal with a Q-Staff Fighter/Monk) and can normally EH with a group. I have been in 3 EE quests, they take quite a while again melees. First life through I had roughly 1700 comms (taken as EVERY END REWARD). Currently level 22 (mid way through) and at 2436 comms. As a more casual gamer (working on HTR 11), it would take me roughly 2 times through Epics to make a heart, this would include skipping Slayers/Explorer/Rares/Challenges. So the new end game-run to quest, zerg, run to next quest, zerg, don't farm, run a quest once every 2 days to insure the Ransack does not happen.

    Working as intended. It's approximately epic life + an additional 10 MM xp to get your heart if you run mostly on EN. It's life + an additional 5MM xp to get your heart mostly on EH. If you run on EE you will get an epic heart during your epic life. Of course all this assumes you don't use any xp pots, etc.

    Or pay approximately $8 for an epic heart from the DDO store and you don't need to change the way you run.

    If you are VIP you will get a free heart on 12/12 for every epic character you log into.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    Working as intended. It's approximately epic life + an additional 10 MM xp to get your heart if you run mostly on EN. It's life + an additional 5MM xp to get your heart mostly on EH. If you run on EE you will get an epic heart during your epic life. Of course all this assumes you don't use any xp pots, etc.
    Not WAI according to the original statements, where you should get "close" to getting a heart on an EH run to cap.
    <seemingly offensive Army of Darkness quote>

  9. #49

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    I am confused by Turbine...buy XP pots, XP tomes, and VIP XP bonus to level faster, oh and then buy a ETR Heart. OR don't buy anything and just run the quests to get your ETR Heart. The all in approach makes me glad that my VIP time is just a 3 month experiment, I have my XP tomes from X-pan buys, and I don't buy XP pots.

  10. #50
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    I want to thank turbine because now I will finally get my completionist feat, this etr thing is boring, epic pl feats are not really worth the trouble, I wouldnt be getting any favor/tp while doing it, epics are boring, no raids to do, so whats the point.

  11. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    I want to thank turbine because now I will finally get my completionist feat, this etr thing is boring, epic pl feats are not really worth the trouble, I wouldnt be getting any favor/tp while doing it, epics are boring, no raids to do, so whats the point.
    Wait a minute, you don't like to run 6.6 million (farm/buy heart) for 15 HP at cap and a fairly weak stance? What about 19.8 million (farm/buy 3 hearts) for 45 HP at cap and a pretty decent stance? Would you rather run a Barb life, get 3.8 million, gain favor/TP, farm a heart, and get 10 HP base? /sarcasm
    Epic TR works great for a few reasons, grinding 20 Shroud Runs, maxing out Relic Weapons, and uh grinding old Epic Items?

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gljosh View Post
    Wait a minute, you don't like to run 6.6 million (farm/buy heart) for 15 HP at cap and a fairly weak stance? What about 19.8 million (farm/buy 3 hearts) for 45 HP at cap and a pretty decent stance? Would you rather run a Barb life, get 3.8 million, gain favor/TP, farm a heart, and get 10 HP base? /sarcasm
    Epic TR works great for a few reasons, grinding 20 Shroud Runs, maxing out Relic Weapons, and uh grinding old Epic Items?
    Dont need to farm for heroic heart, have 200 tokens.

  13. #53

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    my attempt to bypass etr and comm farm is playing gw2 at the moment. €24 for the whole game was too tempting.

  14. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    Dont need to farm for heroic heart, have 200 tokens.
    When I finish my 3rd ETR (Triple Colors of the Queen!), I will have enough for 4 Heroic Hearts and be 5 lives away from Completion (I might Iconic a few of these and trade Korthos for Eveningstar).

  15. #55
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    Just hit level 27. 5,263,990 XP and 2366 vcomms. I've been focusing mainly on quests where (vcomms earned * 6.6 million xp / quest xp) > 4200, but I've also been doing some EAG and Midnight Greetings farming that don't really provide the right number of comms/xp. Also, our weekly raid nights include von5/6, which really kills the comms/xp ratio. It feels crazy to post that it's bad to run a quest because it gives too much xp. I think that Turbines calcs are probably right if you play the way they want you to, but nobody wants to play that way.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standal View Post
    Just hit level 27. 5,263,990 XP and 2366 vcomms. I've been focusing mainly on quests where (vcomms earned * 6.6 million xp / quest xp) > 4200, but I've also been doing some EAG and Midnight Greetings farming that don't really provide the right number of comms/xp. Also, our weekly raid nights include von5/6, which really kills the comms/xp ratio. It feels crazy to post that it's bad to run a quest because it gives too much xp. I think that Turbines calcs are probably right if you play the way they want you to, but nobody wants to play that way.
    Thanks for the further data!
    <seemingly offensive Army of Darkness quote>

  17. #57
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    Said this on another thread, and I'll add it here. Turbine's intent is to make you work to get a free Epic Heart. There is no intent to give one away just from leveling from 20-28, nor should there be imo.

    Just as with Heroic Hearts, there is going to be repetitive, boring, and sometimes unwanted re-running of quests. That's why it's called "work", not "play". I don't see a problem here, despite the vocal members who seem to think just leveling from 20-28 deserves a free Epic Heart.

    /e looks at first line of sig...
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  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnhelm View Post
    Said this on another thread, and I'll add it here. Turbine's intent is to make you work to get a free Epic Heart. There is no intent to give one away just from leveling from 20-28, nor should there be imo.
    Sorry, but the post from the devs on the design of this system disagrees with you - we should get "close" to the needed comms running EH to 28. Nice try, but no.
    <seemingly offensive Army of Darkness quote>

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnhelm View Post
    Said this on another thread, and I'll add it here. Turbine's intent is to make you work to get a free Epic Heart. There is no intent to give one away just from leveling from 20-28, nor should there be imo.

    Just as with Heroic Hearts, there is going to be repetitive, boring, and sometimes unwanted re-running of quests. That's why it's called "work", not "play". I don't see a problem here, despite the vocal members who seem to think just leveling from 20-28 deserves a free Epic Heart.

    /e looks at first line of sig...
    And it's been said many time already. You're comparing 1 day of "additional" work (or a couple of hours if you know what you're doing) with 1 week of "additional work". Nobody's idea of fun and not what I believe the intention to be.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    And it's been said many time already. You're comparing 1 day of "additional" work (or a couple of hours if you know what you're doing) with 1 week of "additional work". Nobody's idea of fun and not what I believe the intention to be.
    Also comparing the rewards of Heroic Heart with Epic Heart, levels involved, etc. More reward should equal more work, imo. As I said earlier, the Epic Hearts are not meant to be free items. They require time, energy, and effort to earn if one doesn't want to buy them from the DDO Store.

    Dandonk, look above at the post you've thanked Standal for making. While Standal disagrees with the method of questing involved, he validates Turbines statements that leveling from 20-28 will get you close to the number of CoV's necessary for an Epic Heart. Your not wanting to play the way Turbine has calculated the CoV returns doesn't change the simple fact.

    The Epic Hearts are not free. They take time and effort on a player's part to earn. That you don't have to pay solid world money to earn that is reward enough, imo. Again, these are not intended to be free giveaways just for leveling any way you want from 20-28. As with any other reward in game, the intent here is to make it require time and effort rather than being a giveaway item just for playing the game your way on your schedule.
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