Page 5 of 9 FirstFirst 123456789 LastLast
Results 81 to 100 of 168
  1. #81
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Seminole, FL
    Posts
    10,455

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    What ED are the overwhelming majority of all of those spellcasters and ranged combat characters in? Is it just one ED or are they spread fairly evenly over the ED map?
    From what I can tell, for years now.. people play whatever the flavor of the mod is.. which is usually whatever someone else tells them is the best.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  2. #82
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Seminole, FL
    Posts
    10,455

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    Was about time since everyone was melee for 2-3 years.
    Only 2-3 years? you must be new here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  3. #83
    Community Member Raoull's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    859

    Default

    While I do think some targetted nerfs (furyshot primarily) would be ideal, there are also problems on the mob side as well.

    I just finished an EE Battle for Eveningstar. The end boss is an archer. If you range her, she does piddling damage. I was getting hit for 25-35 or so I think, and not all that fast. If you melee her.... she'd start swinging her bow and could do 150 at hit easily. Not only that, she had one move with a doubleswing that could knock out 300 HPs in a fraction of a second.

    So... the only safe way to kill an archer... is at range?

    I was so surprised by the behavior, it took a bit before I even believed that was what was happening. I thought those piddling attacks were her spiders for a bit......

    As it stands, you have a mob with an AI designed to do minimal damage (as she never opts to melee, only does it if you close on her, and even then she'll retreat on occasion). I'm sure there are more like this. Archers should always do less damage in melee than as an archer... As it stands it makes no sense. I'm now going to watch normal archers to see if they have the same trait. I expect they do, although probably not so magnified.
    Cannith Server :Vice Sovereign of The Guild of Calamitous Intent

    Kalener (Monk) Renelak (backup band) Raoull (Mr. McStabby) Kaleray (laser heals) Kalrah (xbow rogue)

  4. #84

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    False. Melee is easier to feat, easier to gear, and easier to play.
    Hm...

    Y ranged requires more feats. To prove the fact how feat starved ranged toons are most end up with power attack, cleave and g. cleave.

    Harder to gear when there is the best weapon wraped up in the inventory with dr breakers provided via enhancements? A liberty to drop some of the not needed protection layers since low incomming dmg?

    Harder to play? Elaborate plz.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    It is also more powerful as you can have a multiplier on your damage for the entire quests, where ranged and casters can do it situationally.
    Key word being CAN - not will. I hope DDO is still considered a group game? So tell me this: how maby blitz's can an group handle?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Melee is as powerful as it used to be. Its just not the ONLY thing that is powerful now and people are exploring other options.
    Option being staying away from hard hits. Mobs in this game don't hit remotely as hard from afar. Some don't hit at all.

    I don't mind ranged combat being viable. But since i think we can all agree not being forced to go in close combat can be considered a bunus I mind it not having any drawback.
    NESALOMLJIVI, Thelanis

  5. #85
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin, birthplace of D&D
    Posts
    20,923

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PrimalConcreteSledge View Post
    Hm...

    Y ranged requires more feats. To prove the fact how feat starved ranged toons are most end up with power attack, cleave and g. cleave.
    You mean like most melee builds don't have manyshot nowdays? Many of them have 10k and manyshot, and are STILL swinging an eSOS most of the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by PrimalConcreteSledge View Post
    Harder to gear when there is the best weapon wraped up in the inventory with dr breakers provided via enhancements? A liberty to drop some of the not needed protection layers since low incomming dmg?
    Low incoming damage is a myth. There are enemy casters and ranged as well. Melee had those weapons giftwrapped for them as well as ranged, its not so one sided.

    Quote Originally Posted by PrimalConcreteSledge View Post
    Harder to play? Elaborate plz.
    Keeping mobs lined up for IPS, staying within 30ft for more DPS. Most melee use an OF charge then simply beat on the mob they KDd.

    Quote Originally Posted by PrimalConcreteSledge View Post
    Key word being CAN - not will. I hope DDO is still considered a group game? So tell me this: how maby blitz's can an group handle?
    And how many ranged or casters get a 250% stackable damage buff for an entire quest. Hint, that number is greater than ranged or casters get.

    DDO stopped being a group game when divine stopped healing and started building for fury and LD themselves. Everyone wants a piece of the real OP ability, multiplied damage numbers. It has nothing to do with ranged combat.


    Quote Originally Posted by PrimalConcreteSledge View Post
    Option being staying away from hard hits. Mobs in this game don't hit remotely as hard from afar. Some don't hit at all.
    Melee stun or KD mobs then beat on them til they are dead. All this "melee takes higher damage " stuff is a myth perpetuated by poorly played melee who are still hung up on the run forward and attack steamroll methods of heroic questing that simply don't work in EE. Skilfull play and CC eliminates most of the damage. Matt even said so himself when he proclaimed that 4 levels of FvS keeps his barbarian alive using Ameliorating Strike.

    Quote Originally Posted by PrimalConcreteSledge View Post
    I don't mind ranged combat being viable. But since i think we can all agree not being forced to go in close combat can be considered a bunus I mind it not having any drawback.
    Ranged should be optimal as much as melee is optimal. Too long have the myths perpetuated on these forums kept everyone else in the back seat. More options is better for the game.

    People are too afraid to talk about the real 800 pound gorilla in the middle of the room, which is destiny abilities that add arbitrarily multiplied damage to specific destiny cooldowns. This is what is OP - not any of the particular combat styles. These requests to nerf specific combat styles are smoke and mirrors.
    Last edited by Chai; 12-08-2013 at 07:32 PM.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  6. #86
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Staten Island, NY
    Posts
    12,813

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    You are wrong the melee are disappearing from DDO on epic elite. I run EEs all the time I throw up an lfm and take the first the 5 to join and they are not melee. They are ranged and spellcasters. Melee is a lot harder to play then ranged characters. Melee should not become a flavor playstyle in DDO.
    You're misreading the signs. This trend has very little to do with the strength of ranged characters, and a lot to do with the overinflation of EE mobs' stats, particularly their damage output, plus, as I and others mentioned earlier in this thread, the continuing trend in DDO for people to prefer BYOH groups, thanks to people not wanting to play healers. I can't fault people much on the latter, because I really don't want to, either.

    You're seeing more archers these days because archery has finally been improved enough to where it is better in that spot than a melee getting the **** kicked out of them, while before, you were still better with a melee getting pummeled than you were with an archer plinking away. And as for casters, that has universally been the case for almost the entirety of DDO's history. All that has changed (and it cycles to a degree) is whether casters are so much more powerful than melees that they don't need the support, or weakened enough that they could really use the help (unless they want to chug a lot of potions).

    Quote Originally Posted by Singular View Post



    No. Absolutely not. It's hard enough to get IPS to work as it is and it decreases your single target dps anyways.

    Just because some random player is unhappy with the number of archers in the game is no reason to nerf ranged combat. It's just the OP's irrelevant opinion; we can safely ignore it.
    This isn't a new idea or suggestion--it's been popping around on the forums, by myself or others, for a long time. It used to be mostly presented (regarding IPS and Manyshot) in the hopes of giving the devs and excuse to buff ranged combat, since they were, for a very long time, apparently reluctant to do so due to their feeling Manyshot, especially, was too strong as it was, which is true. Thankfully, someone over at Turbine saw through that anxiety and decided to finally buff ranged combat anyway. This was a good thing, but it's demonstrating how overpowered Manyshot and, to a lesser degree, IPS are. The argument has gone back and forth, round and round: some people are willing to sacrifice some, not all, of the power of Manyshot and IPS to get an overall boost to archery, while others enjoy the crazy-goodness of Manyshot burst DPS. My concern is that we'll get hit with an overall nerf to ranged combat in response to some of the things it's doing now, rather than targeting the actual problem areas. Adrenaline + Manyshot is seriously problematic (made slightly less so in the current metagame strictly thanks to the overinflated HP on EE mobs) because it's combining two of the best burst damage abilities in the game without any consideration for that combined effect. If Adrenaline applied to only one arrow of Manyshot, the combo would still be good, because they are both still independently good, but it wouldn't be as ridiculous as it is currently. I'd prefer that change, to changing Fury Eternal to only work with melee attacks, as that just brings us back to a pressure on archers to melee when not using Manyshot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raoull View Post
    I just finished an EE Battle for Eveningstar. The end boss is an archer. If you range her, she does piddling damage. I was getting hit for 25-35 or so I think, and not all that fast. If you melee her.... she'd start swinging her bow and could do 150 at hit easily. Not only that, she had one move with a doubleswing that could knock out 300 HPs in a fraction of a second.

    So... the only safe way to kill an archer... is at range?

    I was so surprised by the behavior, it took a bit before I even believed that was what was happening. I thought those piddling attacks were her spiders for a bit......

    As it stands, you have a mob with an AI designed to do minimal damage (as she never opts to melee, only does it if you close on her, and even then she'll retreat on occasion). I'm sure there are more like this. Archers should always do less damage in melee than as an archer... As it stands it makes no sense. I'm now going to watch normal archers to see if they have the same trait. I expect they do, although probably not so magnified.
    Many of them do. It's always struck me as very odd, that our melee opponents have damage that scales semi-competitively with our own, while ranged attacks don't, really, and never have. And of course, even more strange that an enemy archer can swing their bow in melee (which we can't) and deal more damage with that improvised weapon for which they are presumably not built to use effectively than they do with their ranged attack, their focus.

    That just comes back to the antiquated, clunky AI we have in the game, particularly when it comes to mobs dealing with opponents at range. Also, we're looking at Turbine's desire to use ranged attackers for peppering, lethal in large numbers, out of reach, or as support for more dangerous in your face opponents, rather than as actual threats themselves, in part because ranged opponents don't last long in DDO, as we box them in and hammer them down in melee where they aren't well suited.
    Useful links: A Guide to Using a Gamepad w/ DDO / All Caster Shroud, Hard Shroud, VoD, ToD Einhander, Elochka, Ferrumrym, Ferrumdermis, Ferrumshot, Ferrumblood, Ferrumender, Ferrumshadow, Ferrumschtik All proud officers of The Loreseekers. Except Bruucelee, he's a Sentinel!

  7. #87
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    that our melee opponents have damage that scales semi-competitively with our own, while ranged attacks don't, really, and never have.
    if enemy archers' arrow damage scales as melees, your party will be wiped in 5 sec by only a dozen of archers focusing fire.
    Last edited by nichefish; 12-08-2013 at 07:47 PM.

  8. #88
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin, birthplace of D&D
    Posts
    20,923

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nichefish View Post
    if enemy archers' arrow damage scales as melees, your party will be wiped in 5 sec with only a dozen of archers focusing fire.
    Only a dozen?

    See this is another issue. Not only do mobs have insanely inflated stats, they spawn in such large numbers that we fully expect to be fighting armies of mobs nowdays, and its accepted as the way it is.

    The party wouldn't wipe if people actually played to beat that situation with strategy rather than barge in and overwhelm it with brute force. Many EE players consider that kind of play a 'waste of time" however. Those archery can be CCd strategically and beaten however. It just cant be done Leroy Jenkins style.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  9. #89
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    Let me get this straight.... ranged is now overpowered?!
    It is amongst good players . . .

  10. #90
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Only a dozen?

    See this is another issue. Not only do mobs have insanely inflated stats, they spawn in such large numbers that we fully expect to be fighting armies of mobs nowdays, and its accepted as the way it is.

    The party wouldn't wipe if people actually played to beat that situation with strategy rather than barge in and overwhelm it with brute force. Many EE players consider that kind of play a 'waste of time" however. Those archery can be CCd strategically and beaten however. It just cant be done Leroy Jenkins style.
    and with proper group strategy and cc'd mobs, melee would have less problems to complain.
    dont think we have to discuss about this further. here

  11. #91
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    But having a self healing option in EE has been a life saver as a melee for me, even with a healer in the party, i don't wait for him to throw a heal if im low and in a bad spot, and heck sometimes its saved the healer or someone else. I think that play style of Healer, caster and DPS and the healer is the main and sometimes only source of healing for some of the dps is not going to be very popular, even in the future.
    I have one to. it's called a hjealer. I tell them to do their job, they hjeal meh, all is right with the world.

  12. #92
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    8,866

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post


    And how many ranged or casters get a 250% stackable damage buff for an entire quest. Hint, that number is greater than ranged or casters get.

    .
    Blitz can work with ranged too right? Ive seen a few monk/chers saying how good LD can be for a lot of quests they where mainly in sharadi and Fotw but they tried out LD and said it was great too, especially for soloing but even in groups if they where blitzing this was a few months ago, has something changed?

  13. #93
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    8,866

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    I have one to. it's called a hjealer. I tell them to do their job, they hjeal meh, all is right with the world.
    Only gimp troll need hjeals............reroll.

  14. #94
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    5,555

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    Blitz can work with ranged too right? Ive seen a few monk/chers saying how good LD can be for a lot of quests they where mainly in sharadi and Fotw but they tried out LD and said it was great too, especially for soloing but even in groups if they where blitzing this was a few months ago, has something changed?
    LD is still good on ranged I enjoy it from time to time

  15. #95
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    8,866

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanngiostr View Post
    LD is still good on ranged I enjoy it from time to time
    Yeah thought so, use to use manyshot in LD on a melee was great for building that first stack and did a lot of damage once it came off timer again esp if you had IPS and could line up multiple mobs.

  16. #96
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    5,555

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    I do not want a nerf to ranged per say, but I have noticed a trend in DDO of more and more ranged characters and less and less melee characters. A big reason for this is because ranged combat has become too easy. At one time in the past for every 10 melee there was 1 ranged character or something to that effect. Ranged combat had dps problems back then, but the really good ranged players could still compete. They used improved precise shot, positioning, ranged tactics, gear such as slayer arrows to be competitive. I would like Turbine to reward that type of ranged play again.

    I think in general ranged dps should be decreased, but improved precise shot and archers focus should have their dps increased. What that means is that a player should work and move to get improved precise shot as much as possible and muli targets lined up when they want to do improved precise shot and then they have to actively switch to archers focus when fighting the boss for more dps on that boss. Ranged combat has gotten far too lazy. DDO is rewarding this lazy play. Melee play has gotten much better because melee skill is getting rewarded, but for some reason this lazy ranged play is getting rewarded. Turbine fix that please.
    Meh this coming from the one who thinks EE should be the only difficulty that anyone plays.

    just trying to force everyone to play the way you want them too again...more of the same yawn

  17. #97
    Community Member FlaviusMaximus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    1,635

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    Blitz can work with ranged too right?
    Blitz only adds to melee damage unless it is bugged. Dreadnought is specifically a melee destiny.

    If I'm in the middle of a Blitz and my hits are doing roughly 300-2000 damage per swing to non stunned mobs (TWF), I'm not pulling out a bow to tickle enemies with an unadrenalized Manyshot. If the ability isn't working as it is written and is for some reason giving a damage bonus to ranged as well, then that is a different story.
    Last edited by FlaviusMaximus; 12-08-2013 at 09:13 PM.

  18. #98
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Staten Island, NY
    Posts
    12,813

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nichefish View Post
    if enemy archers' arrow damage scales as melees, your party will be wiped in 5 sec by only a dozen of archers focusing fire.
    I'm not saying they need to be shooting for 200-400 a shot, but more than 50 would seem appropriate, and certainly for more than they are swinging their bow in melee for.

    I think you glossed over my other points where I pointed out that one of the problems is the way the devs use archery-focused enemies. If we are fighting a dozen archers (or crossbowmen) as in, say, Lord of Blades, then yes, it makes sense that they won't deal too much damage a shot, because they are essentially a machine gun, but for someone like the drow at the end of Battle for Eveningstar, that's a lone archer who hits like the battalions of them do.
    Useful links: A Guide to Using a Gamepad w/ DDO / All Caster Shroud, Hard Shroud, VoD, ToD Einhander, Elochka, Ferrumrym, Ferrumdermis, Ferrumshot, Ferrumblood, Ferrumender, Ferrumshadow, Ferrumschtik All proud officers of The Loreseekers. Except Bruucelee, he's a Sentinel!

  19. #99
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    5,555

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FlaviusMaximus View Post
    Blitz only adds to melee damage unless it is bugged. Dreadnought is specifically a melee destiny.

    If I'm in the middle of a Blitz and my hits are doing roughly 300-2000 damage per swing to non stunned mobs (TWF), I'm not pulling out a bow to tickle enemies with an unadrenalized Manyshot. If the ability isn't working as it is written and is for some reason giving a damage bonus to ranged as well, then that is a different story.
    the way Blitz works with ranged is situational...

    if you can IPS manyshot/fuselage/10kstars a bunch of mobs you can get a bunch of stacks on Blitz at once

    you could likely do the same with Cleave attacks but, its a situational thing really

    What I like on LD with my Range focused Arti is to get the stacking passive Critical damage, Devastating Critical, Extra action boosts (more Fuselage), bonuses to HP with Stat boosts in Con, +50% damage to helpless opponents while any Action Boost is active, twist in Pin and Win.

  20. #100
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    8,866

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    I'm not saying they need to be shooting for 200-400 a shot, but more than 50 would seem appropriate, and certainly for more than they are swinging their bow in melee for.

    I think you glossed over my other points where I pointed out that one of the problems is the way the devs use archery-focused enemies. If we are fighting a dozen archers (or crossbowmen) as in, say, Lord of Blades, then yes, it makes sense that they won't deal too much damage a shot, because they are essentially a machine gun, but for someone like the drow at the end of Battle for Eveningstar, that's a lone archer who hits like the battalions of them do.
    What about faster melees or melees who if they just cant catch and hit that speedy agile caster or ranged dps toon, who pull out throwers and do some hefty damage with those? We have some mobs in game that throw then melee once they are in range already so maybe boost their ranged attacks and add some ranged attacks to other melee mobs?

Page 5 of 9 FirstFirst 123456789 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload