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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    These are the natural troll breading grounds
    We deep-fry them after we bread them, right? Mmmm.

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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    I do not want a nerf to ranged per say, but I have noticed a trend in DDO of more and more ranged characters and less and less melee characters. [...]
    Well, reduce enemy damage output and enemy spell/ability dc:s to a level where it's once again possible to melee and you will see the pendulum swing back again. Frankly, after several years of archers being the lepers of DDO, I dont mind them having a slight restitution.

  3. #63
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    I disagree with the OP. For the longest time, THF was the dominant DPS build, and ranged was basically flavor country. Now that everyone who wants has 1-3 THF cleave builds on their account over the past few years, and destinies + enhancement pass happened, players want to explore the other options that opened up. Melee cleave builds are still strong, so theres no reason to nerf ranged or make it harder to achieve. They are just old hat because they were dominant long before ranged gained power with destinies + enhancement pass.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  4. #64
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    The ratio will not reverse. Ranged is too easy. I have played ranged combat and two weapon fighting combat since day one of ddo. I know how difficult it was to be a good ranged player in the past. Now its easy, easy to survive, easy to cc, easy to dps, just plain old easy. Melee is actually a nice challenge right now other then the blitz but even with that the melee has to be wary of the damage they take and getting the blitz going and maintaining it.
    This is bologna. Its not ranged that makes this all easy, it is shiradi. Ranged combat is fine. Its the destinies that are OP. Soloing with blitz is far lazier than soloing with shiradi, does ALOT more damage, and is at least as survivable.

    I also played ranged toons when they were extremely unpopular. The reason why they are popular now is because melee has been behind the wheel for years and years, and now that other options opened up, players want to explore those other options. It makes perfect sense that folks who have accounts with 3 or more mele cleave builds would want to try other things, and ranged is currently a breath of fresh air.

    Keep your nerfs to yourself please. The game needs the variety it has today, and requests like your only serve to put entire playstyles back into flavor country. More options makes the game better. Melee is still a strong option, its just older than George Burns and people are gravitating to new powerful options, rather than building for the only one that is powerful as they did in the past..
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

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  6. #66
    Community Member taurean430's Avatar
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    It's time to reign monks in as opposed to giving them more and more abilites that surpass focused builds for no investment. The changes that need be made are small as well and would not invalidate the entire ranged playstyle.
    Last edited by taurean430; 12-08-2013 at 04:36 PM.
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  7. #67
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    This is bologna. Its not ranged that makes this all easy, it is shiradi. Ranged combat is fine. Its the destinies that are OP. Soloing with blitz is far lazier than soloing with shiradi, does ALOT more damage, and is at least as survivable.

    I also played ranged toons when they were extremely unpopular. The reason why they are popular now is because melee has been behind the wheel for years and years, and now that other options opened up, players want to explore those other options. It makes perfect sense that folks who have accounts with 3 or more mele cleave builds would want to try other things, and ranged is currently a breath of fresh air.

    Keep your nerfs to yourself please. The game needs the variety it has today, and requests like your only serve to put entire playstyles back into flavor country. More options makes the game better. Melee is still a strong option, its just older than George Burns and people are gravitating to new powerful options, rather than building for the only one that is powerful as they did in the past..
    You are wrong the melee are disappearing from DDO on epic elite. I run EEs all the time I throw up an lfm and take the first the 5 to join and they are not melee. They are ranged and spellcasters. Melee is a lot harder to play then ranged characters. Melee should not become a flavor playstyle in DDO.
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  8. #68
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    You are wrong the melee are disappearing from DDO on epic elite. I run EEs all the time I throw up an lfm and take the first the 5 to join and they are not melee. They are ranged and spellcasters. Melee is a lot harder to play then ranged characters. Melee should not become a flavor playstyle in DDO.

    What ED are the overwhelming majority of all of those spellcasters and ranged combat characters in? Is it just one ED or are they spread fairly evenly over the ED map?
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  9. #69
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    No. Don't.
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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    You are wrong the melee are disappearing from DDO on epic elite. I run EEs all the time I throw up an lfm and take the first the 5 to join and they are not melee. They are ranged and spellcasters. Melee is a lot harder to play then ranged characters. Melee should not become a flavor playstyle in DDO.
    Alot of what you are describing can be tied directly to BYOH and lack of divines in current end game. Folks hated waiting for a healer so they made their characters self-suffcient. Now folks want to run EE and not need external heals, this leads to more people making builds that do ranged DPS (spell or arrow). The only regard in which melee is harder to play then a ranged character is mitigating damage taken and self-healing.

    Edit: Just to be clear, /not signed as it were.
    Last edited by Braegan; 12-08-2013 at 04:53 PM.
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  11. #71
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    melee dps is just fine. still got better dps than ranged mostly. the only problem is crazy incoming damages on EE.

    so, nerfing the ranged combat won't bring back the melees to the frontline unless it's a harsh nerf.
    Last edited by nichefish; 12-08-2013 at 05:15 PM.

  12. #72
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    You are wrong the melee are disappearing from DDO on epic elite. I run EEs all the time I throw up an lfm and take the first the 5 to join and they are not melee. They are ranged and spellcasters.
    No they are not disappearing from epic elite. I see just as many as I used to.

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Melee is a lot harder to play then ranged characters.
    False. Melee is easier to feat, easier to gear, and easier to play. It is also more powerful as you can have a multiplier on your damage for the entire quests, where ranged and casters can do it situationally.

    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Melee should not become a flavor playstyle in DDO.
    Melee is as powerful as it used to be. Its just not the ONLY thing that is powerful now and people are exploring other options.

    Youre not even demonstrating you know what is making this all OP. You keep carrying on about ranged -vs- melee, when it is the destiny abilities that provide multipliers to damage that are OP. Once those get toned down the game would be balanced pretty well. It wont happen however because those enamored with huge crit numbers would riot like theres no tomorrow.

    Keep your nerfs to yourself.
    Last edited by Chai; 12-08-2013 at 04:57 PM.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  13. #73
    The Hatchery zwiebelring's Avatar
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    Just make everything harder for madmatt's toons, and only for those, so he/she finally can have fun in DDO again.
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  14. #74
    2016 DDO Players Council Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braegan View Post
    Alot of what you are describing can be tied directly to BYOH and lack of divines in current end game. Folks hated waiting for a healer so they made their characters self-suffcient. Now folks want to run EE and not need external heals, this leads to more people making builds that do ranged DPS (spell or arrow). The only regard in which melee is harder to play then a ranged character is mitigating damage taken and self-healing.

    Edit: Just to be clear, /not signed as it were.
    I would say this is a big part of it. the push for self sufficiency and players who don't want to play party healer, so those who want to play melee but don't want to rely on CSW pots and SF pots build these ranged builds that can do well in both categories. ranged combat is finally very good. the problem isn't ranged combat and shouldn't be nerfed in any way.
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  15. #75
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    I wonder whats going to need nerfing next?

    It could be a lot of things but with maddmatt it normally follows this line, something is too good making it easy..................its so easy that bad terrible players are made to look good, or get good loot, they should not be allowed to do so...............they lack skill but have powerful characters or whatever, they do not deserve it. So at least he does keep the base theme constant. Or EH is too easy it allows people who are more casual a good xp per minute and decent loot option get rid of it!!! Never once thinking about ajusting EE so the xp rewards the extra time better or even ajusting EH no just get rid of it.............. . Go back further it was anger at people getting good loot from Echrono, red ferns, house P, They are too easy to get!!!!Noobs and unskilled players will be getting loot!!!! THE HORROR!!!!

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  16. #76
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    You are wrong the melee are disappearing from DDO on epic elite. I run EEs all the time I throw up an lfm and take the first the 5 to join and they are not melee. They are ranged and spellcasters. Melee is a lot harder to play then ranged characters. Melee should not become a flavor playstyle in DDO.
    Was about time since everyone was melee for 2-3 years.

  17. #77
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    No. Don't.
    Is that all you can add? Real sad. Glad you are back on the forums with responses like these.
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  18. #78
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    I would say this is a big part of it. the push for self sufficiency and players who don't want to play party healer, so those who want to play melee but don't want to rely on CSW pots and SF pots build these ranged builds that can do well in both categories. ranged combat is finally very good. the problem isn't ranged combat and shouldn't be nerfed in any way.
    Ive seen even with Jhealer a good jhealer a lot of EE's fail or the DPS with self built in healing doing all the work because the dps with no self heals where soul stones even with a good healer. The amount of incoming damage having to rely on someone else for all incoming healing is tricky and can be stressful for a healer, people who ajust and can use some tactics and movement can do better but these are often people who have opted to put in a life support system for their toon.

    I lot of people can't stand tagging around playing wack a mole with red bars and if your a sole healer in EE's it can be a pretty consuming task especially if you want to dps and do other stuff yourself, and can have a bit of anger generated your way if they see you killing stuff and they die at the drop of a hat..........if you where not fighting I would not of died!!!

    I don't know, but maybe melees need a bit of a buff not so much in dps of course but some more CC options and some damage mitigation, after all they have to be in melee range to dps and yes people harp on at skillz dodging enemy attacks, I do this to some extent but with the lag in this game and stuff you can make mistakes, mobs that are CCed seem to move around, and mobs seem to hit you even if they appear to be out of range or swinging in the wrong direction the margin of error is less when you have to do your dodging yet be close enough to step in and hit when your opportunity presents itself.

    I use PPR blur, displacement, incorp, dodge, that helps a lot but some players seem to have trouble with putting that into their build for EE's I dunno, some classes seem to have it harder to get those into their builds. I can say monk/monk splash makes it more easy for me when I use it, and having gear and access to twists and ED's.

    Also im repeating myself but the MOB AI makes range so effective even more because they are so damn dumb, but thats something they most likely cannot do anything about as we are stuck with it?

    But having a self healing option in EE has been a life saver as a melee for me, even with a healer in the party, i don't wait for him to throw a heal if im low and in a bad spot, and heck sometimes its saved the healer or someone else. I think that play style of Healer, caster and DPS and the healer is the main and sometimes only source of healing for some of the dps is not going to be very popular, even in the future.

  19. #79
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    This is really the solution the game needs, and I wish the devs would have spent time working on the AI instead of readjusting the combat mechanics system and half of the other cockamamie changes they've made over the last two years that have neither benefited the game, nor accomplished what they sought to do.

    Archery is in a good place right now: it has enough DPS and enough options that it isn't a waste of a party slot to be purely ranged, you no longer must build your character to be able to swap to melee when Manyshot is off-timer.
    Yeah, so leave it alone. Dev time is better spent elsewhere.

    [*]Improved Precise Shot should probably be tweaked in the same way, only applying those affects to the first target struck.[/LIST]
    No. Absolutely not. It's hard enough to get IPS to work as it is and it decreases your single target dps anyways.

    Just because some random player is unhappy with the number of archers in the game is no reason to nerf ranged combat. It's just the OP's irrelevant opinion; we can safely ignore it.

  20. #80
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    You are wrong the melee are disappearing from DDO on epic elite. I run EEs all the time I throw up an lfm and take the first the 5 to join and they are not melee. They are ranged and spellcasters. Melee is a lot harder to play then ranged characters. Melee should not become a flavor playstyle in DDO.
    Melees are only disappearing because people are tired of getting beat up all the time... not because they are lacking in DPS.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

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