Some years ago i would have laughed about the original post.
But now after i have seen several youtube videos of solo-bow users killing EE Gianthold Tor enemys like its Epic-Casual (For example killing the first room waves in a few seconds) i have to agree.
Especially Monkchers are extremly Overpowered right now comapred to any other class.
If the answer to this problem is nerfing ranged damage is another story.
Wayfinder: Drache-V26, Taragon-V4 Quarterstaff-Bot, Iridal-Cleric, Xar-Level 4 Mule
No need to nerf more. Expand!
Why don´t I see anybody playing on Magister or Draconic EDs? Why do the clerical EDs get so low a reputation? Because these do not give any good combinations that make the game fun and the toon strong. They are lame in contrast. That´s why everybody is playing Shiradi Sorc and fury Monkchers. Nerfing them is no solution. Expanding the other EDs would be.
I think a lot of it may be curiosity. Many people probably never seriously leveled a bow user because of the overwhelming disdain for ranged dps. Now that the pendulum has swung the other way a bit (and augmented by the Raider's Reward box) people are more eager to try it out. All things even out over time.
Formerly on Reidra, now on Khyber.
No man is more noble than the cause he fights
imo, I think Monks need to be knocked down a notch or two for better balance. a Monk that can be centered using weapons outside of what they are proficient with is too OP.
Shiradi sorc with 2 fvs lvls is laughing at this thread.
I have a better idea:
How about NOT re-inventing player choices everytime there is an update. I have never seen any game that continually moves the goal posts. This is like playing a permanenet open beta.
You are supposed to add new content, not change the existing everytime. It is getting to the point where I hate the updates. Every 2 months and always tremondous changes to something we have been playing for years.
Regardless of the OP desire, the Ranger is just fine as it is. I am sure we could all the the same thing about any class. Who the hell are you to say which classes should be nerfed anyway?
So glad devs don't read the forums
I agree that changes should be made, but I think the main issues need to be addressed without impacting other builds. A few targetted nerfs would definitely help even things out.
In particular, I propose 3 changes.
-Furyshot is nuts. Change Adrenaline to only apply to the first arrow of a volley.
-Shiradi effects should only have a chance to apply to the first attack of a multiattack spell (magic missle type things).
-Monk stances should not be selectable feats.
It is possible that 10K stars will need to be adjusted as well, but with these changes Monkchers will lose their insane damage burst (fury shot), and depending on build may also lose some of their crit profile. Removing 10K stars with bows would radically alter Moncher builds, so that step should be taken more carefully.
This will impact mainly ranged builds, although the monk stance will also impact many of the One with the Blade melees. (One with the blade / Earth 3 will still be doable, but will be limited to M12/F8 builds.) However it won't effect the less problematic ranged builds (Shiradi archers, repeating crossbow builds, etc) at all.
No build will be destroyed (even One with blade builds which lose Earth 3 can still keep the substantial PRR / Dodge / Shadowfade / Evasion defenses they have now), but the most out of line builds will be a bit more down to earth.
Cannith Server :Vice Sovereign of The Guild of Calamitous Intent
Kalener (Monk) Renelak (backup band) Raoull (Mr. McStabby) Kaleray (laser heals) Kalrah (xbow rogue)
According to what? Shiradi is kind of fun on an archer, but Fury is where the power lies. Fury is much stronger in EE than Shiradi is on an archer by quite a ways.
Untrue.Unrelated to this topic, and going the wrong way about things
Should be about time.
Cool,then they wont mind the dc on something that barely affects them.
Really? How many DC-based abilities are at all effective in epics vs. the number that aren't? Of the ones that are, how many require slavish devotion of build in order to get them to that level? Then also require two items equipped as well (a +10 or better tactic DC item, and Combat Mastery)? And we still have most DC-based abilities being fairly worthless.Double untrue.
The moments when you can keep more than one mob Pinned don't come up all that often. We don't have that many places in the game where we can target creatures from farther away than they can hit us, and even fewer where we can do that and line up more than one creature. And in those places, why shouldn't someone be able to do that? Most of the time, we're in a smaller space, and even if we Pin one creature, there are often others moving around and hitting hard anyway. And, as has been suggested earlier in this thread, and for years, if mob AI were improved, this wouldn't be as debilitating as it is.
Sure, there are some players soloing EE content on their monkchers, but there are also players soloing EE content on their favored souls, their sorcerers, their wizards, their clerics, a few on their monks, some druids...
These encounters aren't trivialized in most cases, but certainly made easier and more manageable. That's partly due to Turbine's favorite way of making things more difficult being adding gobs of HP, which is boring, and forces us into these sorts of decisions. And, I guess you don't know how to read that well, or you would have seen my earlier post, and understood it, regarding some changes I proposed to Manyshot and Improved Precise Shot, which would rein in the power of Adrenaline a bit, without nerfing the whole thing from orbit.Most archers will go with Fury over Shiradi because of the ability to get kills on a whim, combined with the ability to trivialize red-named and purple-named encounters.Wait...being able to get kills on a whim and trivialize big encounters doesn't make it better than Shiradi? I don't think you know how to put together a logical argument to support a point. Maybe you should go back to Essay Writing 101...or 3rd grade (but they probably wouldn't let such a creep around kids). Fury + Pin is better than Shiradi + any twist when you're in most EE content, and if you aren't in EE, then play whatever you like!That doesn't mean that Fury is better than Shiradi for a ranged combatant. I switched from Shiradi to Fury on my ranger because I wanted to improve his MELEE tactics - I would have stuck with Shiradi if I wanted a ranged easy button.
It's easy to get good results using Manyshot. The same is not true for ranged as a whole, as everything else requires some smart build decisions (or following someone else's), tomes, gear, and some skill. It's not too hard to get ridiculous results with Master's Blitz--I two-manned an EE OoB with a pal who basically soloed the quest, start to finish, on a Blitz. Should that get nerfed? Maybe. Do many people play like that? Not that I've seen.Which brings up the fact that the OP is generally correct. Ranged combat is at a state where it is quite easy to get good to stupidly good results. Yes, it's also easy to get stupidly good results with a Skybreaker and THF, and with a caster and mana pots, and with a bard and fascinate, and...Fixed your poor sentence construction for you. You really shouldn't try to learn to write sentences by reading gamers' text. Nice attempt at a pun, though. If you want to get into power creep, then many things need to be fixed well ahead of ranged combat. Besides, that wouldn't fit the DDO development cycle--ranged would need to rise to be the clear best way to address combat and then get nerfed, after is has been reigning king for a few months to a year or so. Clearly not time for that yet.
It's called power creep. It needs to be fixed. Ranged combat is at the top of the list, because it's the first to come within "range."
Right, my whole point of being on the forums is to be both stupid (your opening points) and dastardly sinister. That makes sense.I get it. Your entire point on these forums is misdirection. You don't want the developers to figure out the exploits, so you make backwards statements to confuse them. Nerve venom is the PRIMARY attraction to a Shiradi caster. I do far more DPS in Draconic on my casters than Shiradi. You pretty much HAVE to be doing low to middling DPS in order for the nerve venom delay to be of any use at all.
Personally, I don't stay apprised of exploits, and I don't care if Turbine fixes legit ones or not. This isn't an exploit you're describing--it's a WAI feature of the game. And from all the observations I've made, the point of going Shiradi on a caster is to kill EE mobs efficiently as far as mana-spent, which Draconic Incarnation doesn't do. You're spending a few SP to possibly be doing huge chunks of damage thanks to the various damage procs in Shiradi, while also having a chance at insta-killing creatures with Rainbow. Nerve Venom may be a relevant part of this, and it is certainly strong, but if you took away all of the other stuff in Shiradi, I don't think we'd see as many casters using the destiny, whereas if you took away Nerve Venom, I don't believe we'd see much of a drop-off.
I have. They're terrible. Not because they aren't effective, but because they aren't effective at their chosen focus except for every 20 seconds out of 2 minutes, and they require a lot of feats invested. Compare Power Attack, THF, ITHF, GTHF (or the TWF line), Improved Critical, to Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Manyshot, Improved Precise Shot, Improved Critical, Bow Strength (Weapon Focus if not a ranger), and if you want the monk stuff, also Zen Archery and Ten Thousand Stars. That's 5 vs. 7 or 9 feats. And, yes, adding Cleave and Great Cleave to the mix for the melees is worthwhile (for two-handers, mostly), most DPS-oriented martial characters are taking those for Overwhelming Critical, and while melees get to use them, archers are dumping 3 feats into the toilet for that ability.
Even with all of the positive changes to archery, it's still fairly poor when you're only firing one arrow per shot and hoping for a doubleshot. That the devs felt the need to add a longpenalty to that after Manyshot just makes the non-monkchers even weaker, because they can't even focus heavily on DS to make up for not having a second semi-Manyshot.
It's funny, I'd be saying for years that what I'd like to see is a metagame where monk archers have the highest rate of fire, rangers easiest access to archery feats, a removal of reliance on Dex to a degree, and strong ranged CC in the form of spells, fighters with ranged tactics abilities and higher damage than the previous two, and barbarians with the biggest ranged DPS, and we mostly have gotten that, but the devs made if very easy to combine those, so we can get the ranger's bonus feats and Paralyzing Arrows, and Leg Shot (except we have Pin which is almost always better) etc...while also picking up 10K Stars along with all of the monk's other useful features (immunities, saves, Evasion, Improved Evasion, run speed, Dodge). While I like the increased flexibility of the system post-enhancement pass, I think it went too far.
I know you really don't like monks, because you feel they've basically got everything, and overshadow other melee characters, particularly now, when nearly every build that doesn't have barbarian levels (and why would you want them these days?) has at least 2 monk, if not 6 or 12, because it combines even better than it used to, and you're not entirely unjustified in that opinion. Simply nerfing monks, or archery, isn't the way to go, though, unless you really want us back to even archery-focused characters using a bow about 30% of the time, and melee the rest. I know I don't.
From what ive únderstood the OP wants to nerf an entire group of classes and builds because one build is OP in his opinion. Which does not sound well thought through.
Dystopia = utopia achieved
CBA to fix my forum title, RIP my old greenis.
*casts Raise Bread* *drinks Beer of Annihilation*
The amount of polarising ideas from that user is astonishing. You think it somehow can't get any crazier... there you go.
Characters on Orien:
Wanzer/ Klingtanz/ Incanta Superior/ Mercantus
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