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  1. #1
    Community Member FAQ's Avatar
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    Default Why do bows suck in the low/mid heroic levels?

    I've never played a ranged character, besides an Arty, but reading through the forums I get the impression in the title: that using bows suck in the low/mid heroic levels? Is that true, and if so, why?

    I ask because I'm planning my next life as a pure Arcane Archer ranger (I'm trying each class pure before I start multiclassing; already did pure Pally life, wasn't that bad ;P). I was hoping to stay mainly ranged, just to change the pace from my current life (pure THF dwarven fighter).
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  2. #2
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    rate of attack combined with slow rate of movement.

  3. #3
    Community Member Nayus's Avatar
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    Because you don't get many shots off manyshot.
    Yep, because it's what heroic archering is all about.

    Now, if you want to be pure, you don't deal much damage per shot and it's pretty slow, I'd suggest you take a Paralyzing Bow, it'll help your party way more than your DPS will.

  4. #4
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    When I'm a caster in lowish levels, it's all about fireball. When I'm a melee in lowish levels, it's all about cleave. There really is no ranged equivalent until 10k stars, manyshot or improved precise shot which all come later and get more useful much later. In low levels you're shooting things one at a time, which is really slow compared to how fast other fighting styles can kill stuff.
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  5. #5
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    Hint, acid blast is superior to fireball because you can use it with web

    Thank me later when you discover that web is the single most important arcane spell to level with, and fireball / firestorm / any spell that removes webs are ****ing annoying and make you a terrible player for using them.
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  6. #6
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDOisFree View Post
    Hint, acid blast is superior to fireball because you can use it with web

    Thank me later when you discover that web is the single most important arcane spell to level with, and fireball / firestorm / any spell that removes webs are ****ing annoying and make you a terrible player for using them.
    It was just an example to show that while melee and casters have AoE available to them, bow users do not. I don't use webs at level 5. MOAR FIREBALL!!, but yeah, in situations where web is a consideration, yes acid blast has more utility. This is assuming solo play at low levels, which I tend to stick to. I personally wouldn't be fireballing other people's webs if I could help it in a group situation.
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  7. #7
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDOisFree View Post
    Hint, acid blast is superior to fireball because you can use it with web

    Thank me later when you discover that web is the single most important arcane spell to level with, and fireball / firestorm / any spell that removes webs are ****ing annoying and make you a terrible player for using them.
    I have not seen Web used in a long time, outside of as a way to CC legitimately dangerous mobs with high SR. Heroic content has few high SR mobs and even fewer legitimately dangerous mobs, and the few of those that exist (mostly in elite Running with the Devils) die to one Fireball followed by one DBF anyway. Even if they make one of their saves they die.

    Most mobs that are dangerous are dangerous because they have AoE damage spells. And a good number of mob AoEs will destroy your Webs, making Web pretty terrible against them.


    Acid Blast is weaker than Fireball because its targetting is worse. Even on a character with Conjuration spec and/or Cleric past lives, Fireball is superior because it can be used at point blank range, whereas Acid Blast ALWAYS misses at point blank range. If the targetting on Acid Blast is ever fixed, I will use it over Fireball but that may be a long way off.
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  8. #8
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    The most success I've had with ranged weapons in low/mid heroic levels is a rogue with a repeater. The sneak attack damage makes it work. Also you can put a sleet storm just in front of yourself and shoot through it.

  9. #9
    Community Member Whitehairguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    I have not seen Web used in a long time, outside of as a way to CC legitimately dangerous mobs with high SR. Heroic content has few high SR mobs and even fewer legitimately dangerous mobs, and the few of those that exist (mostly in elite Running with the Devils) die to one Fireball followed by one DBF anyway. Even if they make one of their saves they die.

    Most mobs that are dangerous are dangerous because they have AoE damage spells. And a good number of mob AoEs will destroy your Webs, making Web pretty terrible against them.


    Acid Blast is weaker than Fireball because its targetting is worse. Even on a character with Conjuration spec and/or Cleric past lives, Fireball is superior because it can be used at point blank range, whereas Acid Blast ALWAYS misses at point blank range. If the targetting on Acid Blast is ever fixed, I will use it over Fireball but that may be a long way off.
    But hint!

  10. #10
    Community Member FAQ's Avatar
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    Thanks very much for the replies. So I can expect some slow leveling in the beginning.

    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    When I'm a caster in lowish levels, it's all about fireball. When I'm a melee in lowish levels, it's all about cleave. There really is no ranged equivalent until 10k stars, manyshot or improved precise shot which all come later and get more useful much later. In low levels you're shooting things one at a time, which is really slow compared to how fast other fighting styles can kill stuff.
    Very nice comparison. I see what you mean, thanks!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flavilandile View Post
    This is how it should scale: Random loot < Named Loot < Raid Named Loot.
    The Trophy Room A great idea. Please do this devs!

  11. #11
    Community Member RavenAmazing's Avatar
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    I don't think the bows are under powered. With the AA imbues available and the Runebow enhancement, they get strong fast. You will pick up Paralyzers at level 6, that, along with precision allows you to drop several mobs at once. The Phantasmal Killer effect from Fear Arrows procs rather nice too. Just be sure to mention you are using Fear when in a PUG. Some players, (Melees) don't like it.

    Ranger is a great class. It is an extremely strategic play style. Best toon I have played to date.

    Get to 10 and equip the Thornlord or an Element of Ice. Slayer, Paralyzer arrows and a decent Speed item and you are going to take out a lot of mobs. Manyshot is just a nice bonus. Use it on the Bosses.
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  12. #12
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    Kobold Assault would like to have a word with you.

    (but we'll pretend that Repeaters don't exist right now.)
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    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  13. #13
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDOisFree View Post
    Hint, acid blast is superior to fireball because you can use it with web

    Thank me later when you discover that web is the single most important arcane spell to level with, and fireball / firestorm / any spell that removes webs are ****ing annoying and make you a terrible player for using them.
    I only carry acid blast for fire-immune mobs while heroic leveling.

    Web is irrelevant, as any decent fire savant tossing fire balls is going to murder anything not immune.
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  14. #14
    Community Member Blackheartox's Avatar
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    Id say mostly low levels, once you get silver bow and later for mid unwavering ardeny archery starts to get quite ok.

    Repetitors is a different thing, with a crafted rad 2 and pos2 you murder content in mid high level, and til then due to firing 3 bolts and ability to use int as modifier your damage can be quite amazing.

    Id say something like low mid high levels repetitors are quite amazing, but bows are amazing from 12 + once you get enough bab for manyshot to be worth and imp precise shot/lit 2 gsteel bow

  15. #15
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FAQ View Post
    I've never played a ranged character, besides an Arty, but reading through the forums I get the impression in the title: that using bows suck in the low/mid heroic levels? Is that true, and if so, why?

    I ask because I'm planning my next life as a pure Arcane Archer ranger (I'm trying each class pure before I start multiclassing; already did pure Pally life, wasn't that bad ;P). I was hoping to stay mainly ranged, just to change the pace from my current life (pure THF dwarven fighter).
    If you want to play a pure ranger, then don't play half-a-ranger. You get the full twf line for a reason.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackheartox View Post
    Id say mostly low levels, once you get silver bow and later for mid unwavering ardeny archery starts to get quite ok.
    Silver Longbow and Manyshot are great. Getting to level 6 is a struggle. From there it is simple.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    I have not seen Web used in a long time, outside of as a way to CC legitimately dangerous mobs with high SR. Heroic content has few high SR mobs and even fewer legitimately dangerous mobs, and the few of those that exist (mostly in elite Running with the Devils) die to one Fireball followed by one DBF anyway. Even if they make one of their saves they die.

    Most mobs that are dangerous are dangerous because they have AoE damage spells. And a good number of mob AoEs will destroy your Webs, making Web pretty terrible against them.


    Acid Blast is weaker than Fireball because its targetting is worse. Even on a character with Conjuration spec and/or Cleric past lives, Fireball is superior because it can be used at point blank range, whereas Acid Blast ALWAYS misses at point blank range. If the targetting on Acid Blast is ever fixed, I will use it over Fireball but that may be a long way off.
    Acid Blast and Fire Ball have the same targeting mechanic.
    What you are talking about are the SLA but those are hard target only for both of them.
    Maximized Acid Blast is already Overkill in heroic, so i dont waste my time with Fire.
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  18. #18
    Community Member Rakuda13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FAQ View Post
    I've never played a ranged character, besides an Arty, but reading through the forums I get the impression in the title: that using bows suck in the low/mid heroic levels? Is that true, and if so, why?

    I ask because I'm planning my next life as a pure Arcane Archer ranger (I'm trying each class pure before I start multiclassing; already did pure Pally life, wasn't that bad ;P). I was hoping to stay mainly ranged, just to change the pace from my current life (pure THF dwarven fighter).
    Doesnt suck that bad,most of the stuff you look for on Xbows is included in Arcane Archer enhancements so thats nice.

  19. #19
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Prepare to kite a lot if you solo. Or preferably pull them in one by one from a long range, which is slow.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnbeimnech View Post
    If you want to play a pure ranger, then don't play half-a-ranger. You get the full twf line for a reason.
    Unfortunately, twf isn't worth doing until level 6 at minimum for a pure ranger and level 11 if not taking the second tempest core enhancement. A 60% or less chance to proc a weaker off hand attack simply doesn't give what 1.5x str bonus, 2x PA and larger base damage numbers from a two-handed weapon gives with no feats.

    The way the game's set up, rangers should just grab a great axe and bash their way to at least level 6 regardless of what they eventually intend to specialize in.

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