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  1. #101
    Community Member FlaviusMaximus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    What about faster melees or melees who if they just cant catch and hit that speedy agile caster or ranged dps toon, who pull out throwers and do some hefty damage with those? We have some mobs in game that throw then melee once they are in range already so maybe boost their ranged attacks and add some ranged attacks to other melee mobs?
    I was thinking about this too. Making it so more mobs throw or fire projectiles when player characters are at a distance makes sense, but I wonder if it wouldn't end up punishing melees too much. For example, melees might get hit by missiles as they run to get close enough to melee when they normally wouldn't get hit until they were close. Also, if a melee was in a tight spot and needed to run away to do a little scrolling/cocooning/whatever else, instead of being able to kite and recharge, the enemies might pull out bows and snipe them to death. I do like the idea of ranged characters being less exempt from damage, but I think something like this might hurt melees as much or more than it would hurt ranged characters.
    Last edited by FlaviusMaximus; 12-08-2013 at 11:50 PM.

  2. #102
    Hatchery Hero BOgre's Avatar
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    This is a problem with content design. SOME areas in some quests have a well designed enemy force set to spawn. The right types of casters backed by the right type of ranged all in the right terrain/environment... Too few areas are set up well though. More mobs, maybe some random mob types ( i.e. code the spawn-point, but have the mob type random, or rolled from a list).
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  3. #103
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by totalmir View Post
    The nice fix would be adding DCs to the shirady cc abilities,based either on dex or wis.
    soooo you want absolutely no cc in epic elite? I mean thats cool and all... I can't speak for that guy with the great axe thats flipping the bird at you atm lol. Because ya sure ain't counting on anything else to make that save lol.
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  4. #104
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaviusMaximus View Post
    I was thinking about this too. Making it so more mobs throw or fire projectiles when player characters are at a distance makes sense, but I wonder if it wouldn't end up punishing melees too much. For example, melees might get hit by missiles as they run to get close enough to melee when they normally wouldn't get hit until they were close. Also, if a melee was in a tight spot and needed to run away to do a little scrolling/cocooning/whatever else, instead of being able to kite and recharge, the enemies might pull out bows and snipe them to death. I do like the idea of ranged characters being less exempt from damage, but I think something like this might hurt melees as much or more than it would hurt ranged characters.
    I was thinking of they switch to ranged after they have been hit and theres no enemy in melee range, and if ranged hits em while melees are running to them they should be aggroed on the ranged, though you should still get the 2 seconds of separation you need to get a quick scroll off when you jump run away, make it take a second or two to pull out the ranged weapon, but this might be easily exploitable if we put em in constant indecision what to use lol.

  5. #105
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    No direct nerfs, though making ED's work as written would be nice (adreline recharche).

    played melee's for years, always was able to keep m alive in elite, though lots of clickies being used.
    With the EE's it becomes harder and harder, even for a self healing melee, a 400+ hp recon or heal is nice but if you get triple hit for 500 a piece, thats not gone matter. Thats 500 damage with 200 fort, near 50% dr from prr, 16% dodge, even with shadow fade, EE ring of shadows and 15 displacement clickies.
    Too much of a choir.

    Remember how much fun it was to run a well geared, well build 2hf toon through heroic content? it was a blast. nowadays, trying to slog though those EE hp and mob dps is no longer fun.
    This assumes you can find a healer willing to run it, most of my healer guildies only come out when were raiding, due to all changes to casting.

    Nowadays you get flat out refused by parties, no pinion&manyshot/10k stars? bugger of!
    Taking 5 other shiradi sorcs/monckers, because that would get the quest done faster, thats the attitude today.

    After the enhancement pass i rolled up a real beefcacke tank, strong on prr/hp/saves/intim/etc, someone activates manyshot and bam, lost agro, gets kicked with the healer, get 1 tell and then squelched: Sory, rather take ranged dps, atleast thay contribute to the quest.

    Don't give that "melee isn't dead bs", even Cetus pull's a bow out of his shiny metalic behind when the going gets though
    It's no fun to see a toon that you worked for years on be put asside.
    It was however to be expected, years ago, many people left in anger after the ranger attack speed nerf.....

    It's all so easy to solve though, lower EE mob's saves/hp/dps output etc

  6. #106
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    Default Not really sure what you mean Norg

    Norg the current method of play still rewards everything you describe with.....higher kill counts! If that is indeed the reward a player is looking for.

    How exactly is this lazy ranged playing you describe being rewarded? I mean, when you have 3-4 ranged players in a party they can either fight for kill count or let one go nuts the others go a bit more relaxed.

    Ranged play is less demanding for the simple reason you just don't get hit near as much as a melee toon.
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  7. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    You mean like most melee builds don't have manyshot nowdays? Many of them have 10k and manyshot, and are STILL swinging an eSOS most of the time.
    Doesn't sound like MANY melee builds i have seen. I do know many are very feat starved.

    But yeah since most ranged feats are auto granted with specific class splits (that benefit ranged more btw) it's easy to pull of. Just wanted to note range are not hard to feat, that's all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Low incoming damage is a myth. There are enemy casters and ranged as well. Melee had those weapons giftwrapped for them as well as ranged, its not so one sided.
    How is that an argument? Casters and ranged don't touch melees? They only attack ranged? Give me a break. Ranged dmg is weak, casters can be built for.

    Y meeles got a box too. But they can't make that weapon a swiss knife type via enhancements meaning they will need more situational weapons that might not be easy to get and will be sub-par.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Keeping mobs lined up for IPS, staying within 30ft for more DPS. Most melee use an OF charge then simply beat on the mob they KDd.
    Unless they got more than one mob in witch case they need to stay alive as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    And how many ranged or casters MIGHT get a 250% stackable damage buff for ALMOST an entire quest. Hint, that number is greater than ranged or casters get.
    Fixed that for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    DDO stopped being a group game when divine stopped healing and started building for fury and LD themselves. Everyone wants a piece of the real OP ability, multiplied damage numbers. It has nothing to do with ranged combat.
    It might have stoped beeing a COOPERATING game for SOME.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Melee stun or KD mobs then beat on them til they are dead. All this "melee takes higher damage " stuff is a myth perpetuated by poorly played melee who are still hung up on the run forward and attack steamroll methods of heroic questing that simply don't work in EE. Skilfull play and CC eliminates most of the damage.
    Hm i must be doing something wrong since I noticed you used plural "mobs". Do you know of any multy target stun or KD that works realiable on EE?
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  8. #108
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrimalConcreteSledge View Post
    Doesn't sound like MANY melee builds i have seen. I do know many are very feat starved.
    Same with ranged. Being forced to take specific class splits to be optimal as well. If not they are harder to feat out.

    Quote Originally Posted by PrimalConcreteSledge View Post
    But yeah since most ranged feats are auto granted with specific class splits (that benefit ranged more btw) it's easy to pull of. Just wanted to note range are not hard to feat, that's all.
    So now RANGERS are OP? BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

    Its about damn time. Been reading the ranger hate on these forums for far too long.

    Quote Originally Posted by PrimalConcreteSledge View Post
    How is that an argument? Casters and ranged don't touch melees? They only attack ranged? Give me a break. Ranged dmg is weak, casters can be built for.
    And melee damage is nonexistent when one knows how to play and CC trash before killing it. You may have a point on cleaving bosses. Trash is just that, trash, and melee has free no DC CC for that kind of stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by PrimalConcreteSledge View Post
    Y meeles got a box too. But they can't make that weapon a swiss knife type via enhancements meaning they will need more situational weapons that might not be easy to get and will be sub-par..
    There are melee weapons that ARE a swiss army knife. Not hard to farm, and still in the top 5 for weapons in the game. A few PRE now give the ability to bypass specific DR for melee as well. This is not just a ranged thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by PrimalConcreteSledge View Post
    Unless they got more than one mob in witch case they need to stay alive as well.
    Not hard to do. This is a moving combat FPS style game. The mobs are about as sharp as a bowling ball, which is why they have to use inflated stats to compensate for that.

    Quote Originally Posted by PrimalConcreteSledge View Post
    Fixed that for you.
    You fixed nothing. My post stands firm as is. There is no "might" about it. IT DOES Anyone not able to do so, their group is doing it wrong. If they cant do so while soloing, they are doing it wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by PrimalConcreteSledge View Post
    It might have stoped beeing a COOPERATING game for SOME.
    For a long period of time now it has stopped for most.

    Quote Originally Posted by PrimalConcreteSledge View Post
    Hm i must be doing something wrong since I noticed you used plural "mobs". Do you know of any multy target stun or KD that works realiable on EE?
    Lay Waste Its in the same destiny that gives a 250% buff to damage for the entire quest when done correctly.

    People need to stop carrying on about specific archtypes and start addressing the real 800 pound gorilla in the room, the arbitrary multiplicative stacking damage buffs in EDs. This is what is truly inflating game stats. Complaining about one archtype or the other is smoke and mirrors or pushing ones own agenda.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  9. #109
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Is that all you can add? Real sad. Glad you are back on the forums with responses like these.
    The quality of the idea dictates the quality of the reply. In this case you get two words, and are lucky to get that much. If you don't like it - post better ideas, preferably ones that aren't as self-servingly myopic and puerile as the ones typically in your wheelhouse. Because I agree - it's real sad. We'll just have to agree to disagree on the headwaters of the sad in this case.
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  10. #110
    Death's Dominator Eth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    People need to stop carrying on about specific archtypes and start addressing the real 800 pound gorilla in the room, the arbitrary multiplicative stacking damage buffs in EDs. This is what is truly inflating game stats. Complaining about one archtype or the other is smoke and mirrors or pushing ones own agenda.
    So true.
    - Master Blitz needs a nerf (less damage, limited time, different mechanics - charging and maintaining are both retarded mechanics)
    - Adrenaline Overload needs a slight nerf (maybe like 300% instead of 400% damage)
    - Nerve Venom in shiradi needs a nerf when used with specific spells
    - buff all other destinys (especially the epic moments)
    - slightly decrease the stats of most mobs

    ...and we should have a more versatility regarding builds and their usefulness.
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  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    I do not want a nerf to ranged per say, but I have noticed a trend in DDO of more and more ranged characters and less and less melee characters. A big reason for this is because ranged combat has become too easy. At one time in the past for every 10 melee there was 1 ranged character or something to that effect. Ranged combat had dps problems back then, but the really good ranged players could still compete. They used improved precise shot, positioning, ranged tactics, gear such as slayer arrows to be competitive. I would like Turbine to reward that type of ranged play again.

    I think in general ranged dps should be decreased, but improved precise shot and archers focus should have their dps increased. What that means is that a player should work and move to get improved precise shot as much as possible and muli targets lined up when they want to do improved precise shot and then they have to actively switch to archers focus when fighting the boss for more dps on that boss. Ranged combat has gotten far too lazy. DDO is rewarding this lazy play. Melee play has gotten much better because melee skill is getting rewarded, but for some reason this lazy ranged play is getting rewarded. Turbine fix that please.
    Why couldn't you be in one of the countries with restricted internet access?

  12. #112
    Community Member Elation's Avatar
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    Default Maybe

    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Most archers are not that skilled and rather lousy. Just saying.
    More accurate most players are Lousy including Melee. I think a small adjustment to your thought process is needed skilled players still perform better than unskilled players. Not much has changed there is nothing wrong with more ranged maybe we need more skilled melee builds to hold agro. Your, I am not saying nerf but saying nerf is not really going to help is it.
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  13. #113
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyrecono View Post
    Don't give that "melee isn't dead bs", even Cetus pull's a bow out of his shiny metalic behind when the going gets though
    More like when he needs kill count to keep LD up after having to hunker down and toss a couple scrolls. Fighter should have been building for many shot since many shot entered the game. This is not some new development that just happened a year or two ago. The good fighter players have been using this for years now.

    Quote Originally Posted by lyrecono View Post
    It's no fun to see a toon that you worked for years on be put asside.
    And melee isnt put aside. Did you watch any of his videos where he solos EE quests?

    Quote Originally Posted by lyrecono View Post
    It was however to be expected, years ago, many people left in anger after the ranger attack speed nerf.....
    You said it yourself. It's no fun to see a toon that you worked for years on be put aside. This is why most nerf requests are absurd from a time investment standpoint.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  14. #114
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    So true.
    - Master Blitz needs a nerf (less damage, limited time, different mechanics - charging and maintaining are both retarded mechanics)
    - Adrenaline Overload needs a slight nerf (maybe like 300% instead of 400% damage)
    - Nerve Venom in shiradi needs a nerf when used with specific spells
    - buff all other destinys (especially the epic moments)
    - slightly decrease the stats of most mobs

    ...and we should have a more versatility regarding builds and their usefulness.
    Adrenaline is fine, just recharging them off of ranged which isn't working as described is cheese.

    I would like a devs to comment on if Master's Blitz is working as intended or not.

    I agree with the rest of what you said, and welcome to Ghallanda.

  15. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    snip
    Funny how you look at melees. They all seam to have both ranger and monk levels, max achievable strenght and dual using both fury and dreadnaught. Rest of the group seams to be 5 babysitters or othervise the group is doing it wrong.

    Reality is, you can't have it all and most of the groups are filled with fury slayers and quivering palmers with no desire of cooperation just like you stated.
    NESALOMLJIVI, Thelanis

  16. #116
    Hatchery Hero BOgre's Avatar
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    Is it just me, or does anyone else have trouble reading all these "most", "all", "every" "always" people love to claim? I just am NOT seeing these claims in the actual game. "MOST" people I've met have characters in all kinds of classes, builds, flavours, etc. I'm certainly not seen "ALL" melees with "must have" monk levels and archers "always" kiting stuff all over hell's half acre.

    You guys really need to qualify your statements better. DDO is not suffering because most-all-every-always <insert your gripe here> is OP or whatever. So what, a few people have re-built or TRd into one class or another because it's more powerful this week. That does not equate to AllEveryAlways. Give it a rest.
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  17. #117
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    manyshot and 10kstars are not working properly, when you do an special attack if you throw 4 arrows in that attack all of them have the "special", this is what makes archery so powerful given that in melee when you use an special and you have several attacks at the same time only first one has the "special", when they fix this, all will go back to normal

  18. #118
    2015 DDO Players Council Seikojin's Avatar
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    Utilizing a system to make a very powerful build is the cornerstone of customization in every rpg that allows it.

    Ranged is inherently stronger than melee due to being out of range for incoming damage. To compensate, they do less per hit, and attack slower than melee.

    In DDO, you can burst dps with ranged and do a lot. However, you can do the same in melee and with spells. So I don't see a problem.

    4+ years of asking for better ranged; when they get it, these balance requests come up. LOL

  19. #119
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seikojin View Post

    4+ years of asking for better ranged; when they get it, these balance requests come up. LOL
    it's because Turbine doesn't know how to balance stuff.

    My bet is when this is finally adjusted Turbine will still nerf the same thing.

  20. #120
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrimalConcreteSledge View Post
    Funny how you look at melees. They all seam to have both ranger and monk levels, max achievable strenght and dual using both fury and dreadnaught. Rest of the group seams to be 5 babysitters or othervise the group is doing it wrong.

    Reality is, you can't have it all and most of the groups are filled with fury slayers and quivering palmers with no desire of cooperation just like you stated.
    Thats not how I look at melee at all.

    You answered your own question in the second line there. FURY - not melee, not ranged, but fury. Destinies are the 800 pound gorilla in the room no one wants to talk about. Turbine "balanced" everything out by giving all of us who wants it arbitrarily multiplied damage simply due to leveling through one destiny. This is not a class or race feature. THis is an epic destiny feature not tethered to a class or race. This is how Turbine balances things, by making them do quad damage as a burst akin to old school video games.

    As far as quivering palm, yes monks are 11 on a power scale of 1-10. multiplicitive damage abilities in destinies are like a 14.

    The issue with this is EE is balanced with people being in these destinies in mind. Orange named mobs have 100khp+ and viable DCs are in the mid 70s. DC is headed toward the same brink AC reached a few years ago. This is not ranged being OP, this is Turbine seeing a scalpel as the best tool to balance the classes with, but instead they bust out the chainsaw and let er rip. Toss a grenade on top for good measure afterward just for historical purposes.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

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