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  1. #1

    Default offhand strike >100% worthless?

    I have been playing around with a TWF build that gets
    base 20%
    TWF 20%
    ITWF 20%
    GTWF 20%
    Deft strikes 10%
    Tempest 10%
    Deflect arrows (tempest core) 10%

    will 110% chance for offhand always produce an offhand strike and have a 10% chance for a second offhand strike or am I just wasting my time? I have yet to actually see a second offhand strike while doing one attack at a time on a dummy...
    Formerly Rathic of harvestgain

  2. #2
    Community Member Thumbed_Servant's Avatar
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    I think you have answered your own question.

    As it is intended and written, the chance is a percent chance to swing the offhand at the same time as the main hand. A 110% chance of occurrence mathematically would only give you a guaranteed offhand swing for every main hand swing. There is nothing in the descriptions or the math that would imply a second occurrence possibility.
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    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    There's nothing that implies it doesn't either so the OP is asking a legitimate question...sorry OP I wouldn't know
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    There's nothing that implies it doesn't either so the OP is asking a legitimate question...sorry OP I wouldn't know
    It also doesn't imply that a Turbine employee will come to your house and give you an over-sized cheque for a billion dollars either.

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    Hero LOOON375's Avatar
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    I dumped GTWF on my rogue, and I have yet to have an issue with misses.
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    2015 DDO Players Council Seikojin's Avatar
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    Do you have gear to push it higher? Try seeing if you can get it closer to 120. I doubt it goes past 100% mechanically, but 20% is a lot more frequent in ddo than 10%

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    One could easily test this out if they have any of the iconics unlocked.

    12 Ranger - gives you up to TWF and you can pick up +20% from tempest tree.
    1 monk - to unlock deft strikes.

    Start swinging at the dummy and see if you get double strikes from the offhand. You might be careful to avoid having anything that provides double strike (main hand) in order to not confuse things.

    In theory, if one can get a double-offhand proc, one should see one every 10 swings. It should not take long to confirm.

    I'm thinking that it's probably capped at 100% but who knows how the coding works.
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    Community Member Systern's Avatar
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    If I had to guess.... Offhand Doublestrike is its own thing, as seen in the epic feat "Perfect TWF".

    So, probably no.

  9. #9
    Community Member rest's Avatar
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    My rogue was over 100% offhand strike, and I never noticed any difference. I didn't test extensively, so it very well could work. I focused instead on getting close to 50% doublestrike rather than 110/120% offhand strike.

  10. #10
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rest View Post
    My rogue was over 100% offhand strike, and I never noticed any difference. I didn't test extensively, so it very well could work. I focused instead on getting close to 50% doublestrike rather than 110/120% offhand strike.
    Off-topic, but what's your breakdown for maintaining close to 50% doublestrike?
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    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Even if you don't gain any extra off hand procs for having over 100%, if you can get it to 120% you can basically free up a feat by giving up greater two weapon fighting. So you could increase your DPS in that way.
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    Community Member FlaviusMaximus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rathic View Post
    will 110% chance for offhand always produce an offhand strike and have a 10% chance for a second offhand strike or am I just wasting my time? I have yet to actually see a second offhand strike while doing one attack at a time on a dummy...
    Excellent question and I'm shocked it hasn't come up yet, at least as far as I've seen. It sounds like you already did some testing and found that having over 100% offhand strikes does nothing, but I added to the testing to be sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by aristarchus1000 View Post
    One could easily test this out if they have any of the iconics unlocked.
    12 Ranger - gives you up to TWF and you can pick up +20% from tempest tree.
    1 monk - to unlock deft strikes.
    Yup, that's what I did. 110% offhand strikes, 200 single attacks against the training dummy, each attack yielded exactly one offhand attack. So as the original poster suspected from his own testing, having over 100% offhand strikes does nothing.

    The alternative is that the +10% offhand strikes from Shintao doesn't stack with one of the +10% from Tempest. It's possible to test this out, but probably not necessary since it makes sense that offhand procs over 100% wouldn't do anything.
    Last edited by FlaviusMaximus; 12-06-2013 at 02:44 PM.

  13. #13
    Community Member hucka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaviusMaximus View Post

    The alternative is that the +10% offhand strikes from Shintao doesn't stack with one of the +10% from Tempest.
    those do stack

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    Community Member rest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    Off-topic, but what's your breakdown for maintaining close to 50% doublestrike?
    I my standing DS is 38, then if I can kill stuff fast enough the killer effect gives me another 20. I can maintain 1 stack (5%) at almost all times, so my usual running DS% is 43.

    I'd have to look to get everything, but I get some from ultimate wind stance, some from twisting in GMoF stuff, some from enhancements, some from epic feats, some from destiny feats and some from equipment.
    If I remember, I'll try to post back with exact details when I get home.

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    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rest View Post
    I my standing DS is 38, then if I can kill stuff fast enough the killer effect gives me another 20. I can maintain 1 stack (5%) at almost all times, so my usual running DS% is 43.

    I'd have to look to get everything, but I get some from ultimate wind stance, some from twisting in GMoF stuff, some from enhancements, some from epic feats, some from destiny feats and some from equipment.
    If I remember, I'll try to post back with exact details when I get home.
    Ah, Ultimate Wind Stance didn't occur to me, since you said it was on a rogue. I'd guess:
    10% UWS
    5% Perfect TWF
    3% Opportunist
    3% Hail of Blows
    3% Running With Wind

    That's 24%. Could get another 8 I think with an EE item, which would be 32%. Don't know what I'm missing.
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    Community Member FlaviusMaximus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    That's 24%. Could get another 8 I think with an EE item, which would be 32%. Don't know what I'm missing.
    People will debate over whether this is worth doing, but you can enter a fight with a staff equipped, hit an enemy with the Thief-Acrobat Quick Strike ability, then switch to another weapon. The +25% doublestrike continues regardless of what you have equipped. The Quick Draw feat obviously helps. I don't know if that's how the poster is getting above 50% doublestrike, but that's one possible way to do it.

    *edit
    Nevermind, the question was already answered.

  17. #17
    Community Member rest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    Ah, Ultimate Wind Stance didn't occur to me, since you said it was on a rogue. I'd guess:
    10% UWS
    5% Perfect TWF
    3% Opportunist
    3% Hail of Blows
    3% Running With Wind

    That's 24%. Could get another 8 I think with an EE item, which would be 32%. Don't know what I'm missing.
    3% black set. Also, I'm not in Shadowdancer currently, which is another 3% profane bonus to DS from the level 3 core ability. I use Celestias and eMG, so I get 3% profane using weapon finessable weapons.
    The item isn't EE, it's a regular end reward for one of the shadowfail quests.

    So if I am killing like a madman, I can temporarily get up to 58% DS, but like I said that's not sustainable. Usually when in shadowdancer I keep 1 stack of killer at all times, bumping my DS up to 43. It's pretty awesome.

  18. #18
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rest View Post
    3% black set. Also, I'm not in Shadowdancer currently, which is another 3% profane bonus to DS from the level 3 core ability. I use Celestias and eMG, so I get 3% profane using weapon finessable weapons.
    The item isn't EE, it's a regular end reward for one of the shadowfail quests.

    So if I am killing like a madman, I can temporarily get up to 58% DS, but like I said that's not sustainable. Usually when in shadowdancer I keep 1 stack of killer at all times, bumping my DS up to 43. It's pretty awesome.
    If I weren't so attached to keeping my rogue pure, I think I'd make an effort to follow in your footsteps on this one.
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  19. #19
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaviusMaximus View Post
    People will debate over whether this is worth doing, but you can enter a fight with a staff equipped, hit an enemy with the Thief-Acrobat Quick Strike ability, then switch to another weapon. The +25% doublestrike continues regardless of what you have equipped. The Quick Draw feat obviously helps. I don't know if that's how the poster is getting above 50% doublestrike, but that's one possible way to do it.

    *edit
    Nevermind, the question was already answered.
    Could be a decent way to start a fight, I guess, but for a 10 second buff, that seems like kind of a hassle, even with Quick Draw.
    Useful links: A Guide to Using a Gamepad w/ DDO / All Caster Shroud, Hard Shroud, VoD, ToD Einhander, Elochka, Ferrumrym, Ferrumdermis, Ferrumshot, Ferrumblood, Ferrumender, Ferrumshadow, Ferrumschtik All proud officers of The Loreseekers. Except Bruucelee, he's a Sentinel!

  20. #20
    Community Member rest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    If I weren't so attached to keeping my rogue pure, I think I'd make an effort to follow in your footsteps on this one.
    I really miss that 7 assassinate DC sometimes (13rog/6rng/1mnk), but the DPS is simply awesome. I decided if I wanted an assassin rogue, I'd do a shadar-kai.

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