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  1. #121
    Community Member Gizeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadion View Post
    In total agreement with the OP. I find it silly and immersion breaking when opponents which are obviously of sub epic calibre are just given a pile more stats and declared to be epic. You can give 3BC epic mechanics, but it will NEVER feel or deserve to be epic.

    [...]

    Epic 3BC however is just a sad joke.
    You mean unlike the bandits and their dogs in the high roads or the prisoners and lizardfolk in Wheloon, which are low level encounters with bloated hit points as well?

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Impaqt View Post
    ...and difficulty(Time consuming) getting to quests.
    For just 5 Astral Shards you'll be able to teleport to any quest. It will be a bargain!

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gizeh View Post
    You mean unlike the bandits and their dogs in the high roads or the prisoners and lizardfolk in Wheloon, which are low level encounters with bloated hit points as well?
    *sigh* are they not teaching that two wrongs don't make a right anymore in schools? Who the fffffront door cares that they've repeatedly made very non epic feeling stuff epic. This is about letting them know that maybe they should STOP? Or at least that some players have higher expectations.
    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    You can't possibly design good gameplay if excitement unpredictability and unknowns are NOT ALLOWED because they confuse some players who want everything cut and dried and spelled out for them.

  4. #124
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    Default BTW the thread title is "Tolero" not someone.

    I put her name in the title because she was talking about 3BC on DDO cast recently and it seems obvious that she lobbied for it to be epic'd.

    I've not cought up with the thread yet, but I'm guessing they changed it because they didn't see a connection.
    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    You can't possibly design good gameplay if excitement unpredictability and unknowns are NOT ALLOWED because they confuse some players who want everything cut and dried and spelled out for them.

  5. #125
    Community Member haulindonkey's Avatar
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    Default Ah haha

    Quote Originally Posted by Ovrad View Post
    Now now, that's completely different! One is pirate-themed and the other themed with pirates!
    Ha. I see what u did there ^^ LOL.
    All Haiku courtesy of Kayerith: RAID HAIKU!!: Velah isn't scared//we are killing the zombies//Dahliya is mean? <> Running for the hound!//making babbies fight mommy!//Michael Vick Approved <> Do you trust the shroud?//We must fight Harry two times//bring D-R Breakers <> Race haiku!!: Rusties eat war-forged//I laugh at their suffering//the screams are funny <> War-forged have no souls//batteries not included//save your receipt please <> Toaster surfing haiku!!: Jumping in the air//warforged crowding below me//I cannot get down!!! <> Confusion claims me!//which gender has facial hair?//male or female dwarves? <> It cannot be true! // a dwarf with no beard appears!//ABOMINATION!!
    http://orderoftheemeraldclaw.guildlaunch.com/

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krelar View Post
    You realize it would just be the loth's legs stage of CiTW but with different graphics?
    Actually that might be fun, picture a bunch of floating degree/life boats/rafts from the destroyed ship and you have to jump off the one that's getting a tenticle. Would be a rare skill based raid similar to abbot. Not everyone's cup of tea but every raid does not need to appeal to every player. Having one other twitch skill raid would be Nice.
    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    You can't possibly design good gameplay if excitement unpredictability and unknowns are NOT ALLOWED because they confuse some players who want everything cut and dried and spelled out for them.

  7. #127
    Community Member haulindonkey's Avatar
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    Default Try Lima Beans (er maps) Over and over....

    Quote Originally Posted by LazarusPossum View Post
    Ugh. Epic Tangleroot? Already it's like having beans for dinner every day, but the beans represent hobgoblins.
    The beans also represent quest maps.

    Wait Deja Vu here....

    Haven't I been in this map er, um.... Like 5 times previously? Talk about your recycling. Turbine went green in Tangleroot with maps and hobgoblins. Map may consist of 100% recycled content.
    All Haiku courtesy of Kayerith: RAID HAIKU!!: Velah isn't scared//we are killing the zombies//Dahliya is mean? <> Running for the hound!//making babbies fight mommy!//Michael Vick Approved <> Do you trust the shroud?//We must fight Harry two times//bring D-R Breakers <> Race haiku!!: Rusties eat war-forged//I laugh at their suffering//the screams are funny <> War-forged have no souls//batteries not included//save your receipt please <> Toaster surfing haiku!!: Jumping in the air//warforged crowding below me//I cannot get down!!! <> Confusion claims me!//which gender has facial hair?//male or female dwarves? <> It cannot be true! // a dwarf with no beard appears!//ABOMINATION!!
    http://orderoftheemeraldclaw.guildlaunch.com/

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shorlong View Post
    You know, reading through here again, I see lots of people claiming that this isn't epic, but they all seem to want Vale. These people are complaining because they are tired of epic wolves and spiders and commoners being bad guys, and they want something truly epic. So, let's break that down, shall we?

    Yeah nice breakdown. Way to leave out half of the stuff in each quest to make them seem as vanilla as possible to try to make your point. When you need to intentionally omit half of the data, it only demonstrates how weak your argument is.


    Let's add everything back in that you intentionally edited out shall we?


    Vale of Twilight - Explorer:

    Gnolls, Spiders, bats, scorpions, trolls, ogres, rats, dogs.
    AND rakshasa, bezekiras, elementals, bearded devils, orthons, ogre magi, and djinni.


    Let Sleeping Dust Lie - Quest:

    Spiders, rats, ogres
    AND ogre magi, mephits, and rakshasa



    Ritual Sacrifice - Quest:

    Bats, Spiders, Elementals, Hyenas, Gnolls
    AND bearded devils, bezekiras, greater mephits, and orthons


    Rainbow in the Dark - Quest:

    Gnolls, bats, rust monsters, trolls, trogs
    AND elder beholders, elementals, giant rock scorpions, ancient stone golems, gelatinous cubes, orthons, and tormented shadows.


    That is a heck of a lot more variety than 3BC has.

  9. #129
    Community Member LightBear's Avatar
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    I'd love an Epic 3BC and am wondering what new quests, setting and foes we're about to see.

    One, two! One, two! and through and through. The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
    He left it dead, and with its head. He went galumphing back.

  10. #130
    Community Member Nestroy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LightBear View Post
    I'd love an Epic 3BC and am wondering what new quests, setting and foes we're about to see.
    No new quests, 100% recycled content, and just inflated monsters to fit the CR 40 dog mob bill. Two thumbs down for this.

  11. #131
    Community Member Shorlong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    That is a heck of a lot more variety than 3BC has.
    If you read a few posts after that, you will see that I said I was nitpicking, and that I know there are more there. However, my argument wasn't that 3BC doesn't have that epic feel, my argument was people always complaining that MotU and Shadowfell and High Road don't feel epic because of wolves and spiders and commoners, yet no one mentions the drow priestesses, hezrou, glabrezu, yugoloth, bebeliths, goristro, dragons, netherese wizards, howlers, shades, shadow beholders......everyone else is nitpicking over things, I took a well loved and oftened campaigned for quest pack and nitpicked it as well.

    Again, I agree with the argument that is being made, but the fact that some people want a different pack with just as many non-epic creatures, if not more, to be epic, but are against it anywhere else just screams of hypocrisy.

    That being said, again, I do look forward to 3BC being epic, because I could give a flying flip about what type of enemies I am fighting at what level, and look more forward to the actual quests. 3BC has some of the better designed quests in the game, and contains one of my top five favorite quests.

    Also, I hate Pirates.......
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  12. #132
    Community Member Shorlong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    I put her name in the title because she was talking about 3BC on DDO cast recently and it seems obvious that she lobbied for it to be epic'd.

    I've not cought up with the thread yet, but I'm guessing they changed it because they didn't see a connection.
    No, they got the connection. However, you were making a direct attack. It doesn't seem "obvious" that she lobbied for it to be epic. She was doing her job. She also posted here and someone else posted on facebook about 3BC, asking us our opinions on them. What our favorite quest was, what we liked most about the wilderness. I thought it was pretty obvious from the outset of that thread being posted that it was going to be epic within a year.
    Shorlong - Pale Master, Cevon - Druid Archer, Gorgnak - Barbarian, Addanc - Bear Tank, Juristash - Shadar Kai Assassin, Treiah - Morninglord Tempest Ranger, Baylfyre - CC Bard, Deimanus - Bladeforged Melee Arti, Daerian - Healing Cleric Morninglord, Krazig - Pally Tank, Veriste - Shadar Kai Death Knight, Xanapheia - TWF FVS, Helainia - Shadar Kai Henshin-Theif

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  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakuda13 View Post
    The ladders in prove your worth hare really easy,just use mouse look,look backwards and jump.

    Really if you cant do something so simple makes me wonder what else you cant do in game.
    No need to be a pretentious jerk about it.

    I CURRENTLY find the ladders easy, because I'm playing on a low-latency connection.

    You try doing the ladder jumps on a 1000 ms satellite connection, then come back and tell us how easy it is.

    It requires reasonably good timing, and there's plenty of reasons that might not be easy for someone.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    Seriously what is Epic about pirates and bugbears and hobgoblins and Ogres?

    It boggles my mind that in a turbine meeting room at some point someone said "seeing the success of epic Gianthold, our next re-vamp is logically going to be 3BC..."

    And no one laughed and asked Okay whats the real next Epic pack revamp?

    You have Shroud, an Interplaner Devil invasion, A Necropolis with a guy trying to turn himself from a Lich into a God, Twilight Forge ancient apocalyptic war machine.

    You also have an end game that could sorely use a revamped old end game raid, Such as Shroud, TOD, Abbot or even SubT... 3BC isn't just a failure to feel the pulse of the community, it's a failure to take an opportunity to revamp a part of old engame INTO NEW ENDGAME.

    You went with Pirates and skelly filled tombs, rats, Trog infested dungeons and Halfing Necromancers? Cave bats and Minortours?

    It could have been Pitfiends, Demons and Devils and Liches, Doomshperes and Demi-gods, Warforged Titans from Apocalyptic wars. But those aren't Epic enough. We needed pirates and brigands and and criminals and rats and scorpions.

    Remember that kids game where draw lines to connect the things that are related to each other?

    Epic ..................... [Pirates/Pests/Brigands/Vermin]



    Pedestrian ...................... [Liches/Demigods/Devils/Titans]

    Match these up Turbine.
    I totally agree.... I have to say that I do like some of the 3BC quests, but making them epic.... I don't think so... would much rather have EPIC Meridia and Shroud, and Epic Shavarath quests.... The Shroud and TOD should have been the level 30 raids and endgame
    S

  15. #135
    Community Member AbyssalMage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    *sigh* are they not teaching that two wrongs don't make a right anymore in schools?
    Don't use logic. It hurts the forumites

    Who the fffffront door cares that they've repeatedly made very non epic feeling stuff epic. This is about letting them know that maybe they should STOP? Or at least that some players have higher expectations.
    I agree if they do a straight translation of 3BC it will also be an epic fail, pun intended
    But the House D chain shows how pirates, just like all other humanoids, can interact with extra planar NPC's not realizing the full consequences. If they use the story line given with how we, the players, have came in and interrupted their illicit economy, and build on top of it (i.e. completely new adventures) I am sure they can epic it enough to be believable. I am not sure this is the route they are taking as I tend not to watch Pod casts because they are too boring.

    The new 3BC storyline
    • Pirate (new purple named) got its butt kicked from players (Linking old with new)
    • Pirate, seeking revenge begins researching Liches (Necro 1 - IV), extra planar encounters (Most upper level quests. I think invaders is 12? Hate it so I always skip ), and GH (prophecy).
    • Pirate makes contact with said being, bargain is made
    • Things go pear shape really fast (Pirate may not realize this)
    • We have a 'new' adventure pack

    So yes, I can see it Epic'd. But others packs would have been a better fit.

  16. #136
    Community Member LazarusPossum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    No need to be a pretentious jerk about it.

    I CURRENTLY find the ladders easy, because I'm playing on a low-latency connection.

    You try doing the ladder jumps on a 1000 ms satellite connection, then come back and tell us how easy it is.

    It requires reasonably good timing, and there's plenty of reasons that might not be easy for someone.
    I used to play on a laptop, and since this conversation arose, I went back to play it using a desktop with a mouse. It's much harder now. The fingerpad makes so much of a difference.
    "Why is stuff so hard?" - William Murderface

  17. #137
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    Yeah nice breakdown. Way to leave out half of the stuff in each quest to make them seem as vanilla as possible to try to make your point. When you need to intentionally omit half of the data, it only demonstrates how weak your argument is.


    Let's add everything back in that you intentionally edited out shall we?




    AND rakshasa, bezekiras, elementals, bearded devils, orthons, ogre magi, and djinni.




    AND ogre magi, mephits, and rakshasa





    AND bearded devils, bezekiras, greater mephits, and orthons




    AND elder beholders, elementals, giant rock scorpions, ancient stone golems, gelatinous cubes, orthons, and tormented shadows.


    That is a heck of a lot more variety than 3BC has.
    I am not a fan of 3BC epic but if you take away the Shroud the Vale is pretty lame. The Eladrin are epicy, but spiders, gnolls, and trogs are the other three main mob types in the vale and they are most definitely not epicy. The Shroud always made that pack. The quests are decent but the shroud is one of the best raids that Turbine ever made. I would rather Turbine just make the shroud epic and do some other more worthy pack with it.
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  18. #138
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    I like how you can do any of 3BC quests in any order. I like (most of) the missions themselves. I get the argument for epic adventuring involving dragons and demons and so forth. But, I don't want all epics to focus on just those mobs usually considered epic. That would be boring. And, I just visualize being in another dimension, so epic spiders or kobolds or commoners or whatever doesn't bother me.

    I say "Yaaaarrrrrhhh!!!!" to epic 3BC.

  19. #139
    Community Member LazarusPossum's Avatar
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    There's Old Grey Garl, and Two-Toed Tobias, but I think if there's an epic flagging raid, it will have something to do with The Dragon Below.

    Whot say ye?
    "Why is stuff so hard?" - William Murderface

  20. #140
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    Well, I believe I did mention that if Turbine released anything that could be added to VIP content, it would be a re-hash of an existing pack. And now: here it is.

    Lets just hope they decide to actually add quests as opposed to just epic-ing the ones that already exist. As it stands right now, I am SO FRICKIN' SICK OF RUNNING GH QUESTS, I'd do just about anything (including helping people favor farm) to run something else.

    Don't get me wrong - I love 3BC. I love the quests. I love the explorers. But I am really not that much of a fan of eGH, and I can almost guarantee I won't be much of a fan for e3BC.

    That being said, I'm having a bugger of a time equipping my rogue in epic. Maybe that'll be a prime hunting ground.
    Personally if they epic'd harbor quests id probably run em none stop for xp if not fun. Take usfull items and toss em in there under the old epic make system and you have yourself a goal. Unfortunatly with the major screw up of +10 stat/dmg/accuracy/EVERYTHING on common loot, the only way to fix it would be to up the anti monster wise the whole way around. And then work with that vender loot as a base. That or nerf everything. But then people would be ****ed. Better to jack up a monster and let it beat on the shiny human.

    Spell wise its tricky. You wan't to make spells matter, but you don't want the damn pale running in there and koing everything. So idk, give deathward to some monsters and not others? Let monsters be able to cast death ward? idk, magic just always screws up the ratio's. Damn death spells.
    Through avarice, evil smiles; through insanity, it sings.

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