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  1. #201
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RTFM View Post
    Clerics need more love, been that way for a long time now. So here are some comments:

    1. Like others have said some improvements to the Unyielding ED before making yet another half thought out ED.

    2. For the new divine ED, yes do make it "cleric" flavor.

    3. Mix of turning, and [spell or melee]. Turning clerics could use some love, get more Epic undead quests and make turning clerics fun to play.

    4. Clerics should be able to pump out more damage, considering they are not really cherished as in the old days when every group *had* to have a healer.
    Hmm I personally think clerics are better then FVS. FVS do have an advantage with light damage, but very little else. That being said both FVS and clerics could use a bump. FVS could use the third enhancement and this third destiny and clerics could use domain/ turn feat sort of thing..
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  2. #202
    Community Member dlsidhe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    We are considering some changes to buff Unyielding Sentinel and Exalted Angel along with a new Divine Epic Destiny. The overall scope of these changes is limited (we're not looking to completely remake the existing Epic Destinies), but would probably include revisiting their Epic Moments.
    Speaking as a fan of EA, if the angelic form became a toggle rather than a timed form (maybe take a hint from savants/Druids/PMs), and the epic moment became a self resurrection with spell point regeneration, that'd be pretty sweet.
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  3. #203

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanuk View Post
    As other have said, thank you for the open and early communication!

    I will say it straight out, don’t do a melee ED tree for the 3rd divine tree. Simply don’t! There’s already a melee divine tree called unyielding sentinel....
    +1

    Pallys have aura already, and guess what, the word in Stormreach is the battlefields are getting bigger, much bigger?
    Divines are starting to consider enlarge spell metamagic, so unless you want to restrict the raid designers, think outside the box?

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Hmm I personally think clerics are better then FVS. FVS do have an advantage with light damage, but very little else.
    Enhancement pass went a good way toward making Cleric same ballpark as FvS instead of way behind them. Personally, I wouldn't say they've fully caught up, but it's much, much closer now.

    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    That being said both FVS and clerics could use a bump. FVS could use the third enhancement and this third destiny and clerics could use domain/ turn feat sort of thing..
    /signed to both

    All classes, including FvS, need 3 enhancement trees.

    Cleric is (I think) the only class still missing one of it's primary class abilities from the game: domains.

  5. #205

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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    Balanced Strike
    Active melee attack, 10s cooldown, no cost
    You attack with a sweeping motion in front of you, hitting all enemies in a 150 degree frontal cone (contrast to Cleave's 270 degrees) with your main hand weapon and this attack has +3[W] damage. If you have a shield equipped and this attack hits at least 2 targets, you gain 10% doublestrike or 50 temporary HP for the next 6 seconds. (Not really fussed which of those two effects, either will be useful).


    Exalted's situation is more complex. Light damage is not viable at the 28 cap and was mediocre at the 25 cap, and the additional healing throughput of Exalted is total overkill as healing is about reflexes, not throughput. EA needs more changes than just minor ones.
    Ran out of rep for the day, but virtual +1 anyway.
    Welcome back the Sirgog, I used to know.
    Quote Originally Posted by samthedagger View Post
    This here is brilliant.
    +1 indeed

  6. #206
    Community Member TDarkchylde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Hmm I personally think clerics are better then FVS. FVS do have an advantage with light damage, but very little else. That being said both FVS and clerics could use a bump.
    Someone check the thermostat in Hell please.

    +Rep. Maddmatt's 100% right on this one. Clerics are ahead by light years at this point, especially when it comes to pure builds and mostly divine with small splits of other classes. The only place Favored Souls are ahead at this point are as 2 level splashes on an arcane.
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  7. #207
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post

    Cleric is (I think) the only class still missing one of it's primary class abilities from the game: domains.
    I'd say the core feature missing are familliars (partially mitigated with necro pet for wizard) and animal companions (but they'd be worthless in game with their HD=1/2 ranger level, and rangers are offset by gaining both TWF and archery specialisations).
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  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braegan View Post
    I'd like to see a heavier focus in Divine DCs for a new ED.

    Divine DCs are in a pretty sad state right now.
    I agree with Braegan, divine needs boost to DC/power casting.
    However, with greater respect to developers and players.. Lets think this more realistically.

    Adding archon: this sounds very good, but.. This will put some players in very bad situation like FvS.
    What do they have.. Almost nothing good when it comes to DC/Power casting. Clerics are better now.
    And some people mentioned to add archon.. Before all this, only Fvs had jump of faith, now everyone can use it.. Remember guys, jump of faith is class feature and so archon.. I don't think it's smart to take away what unique features one class have and give it to everyone away..

    AE(Exalted angel) change: yes! I agree that epic moment is very weak right now. CD is of curse, why not don't mess with it and add one simple unique feature. Angelic wraith: whenever you get hit magically or physically there is a chance epic archon (not shoulder) will be summoned to aid you in battle. Or something like that.. It's an angel after all, they have to be better and one step ahead of anyone else (human, drow etc)

    Lastly, lets don't say something like.. Oh, add +5 spell pen and +5 spell dc while on angel mode or something that really over powered and not well calculated. Sorry, I really don't mean anything bad by saying this... But, I think we should look more into what is divine and who they truly are.. Like for example: did you guys know that angels are originally made from fire? It's not always light, also Angels in D&D are naturally immune to some spells like electric.. So maybe they should have some spell resistance? Also it would be cool if ascendancy become toggle "angel"(not necessarily) and epic moment would be Arch-angel (just an idea) same effect like angel, but add wings or make it look like dramatic angel (?) lol. Let party say, wow!! Cool angel!

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelic-council View Post
    I agree with Braegan, divine needs boost to DC/power casting.
    However, with greater respect to developers and players.. Lets think this more realistically.

    Adding archon: this sounds very good, but.. This will put some players in very bad situation like FvS.
    What do they have.. Almost nothing good when it comes to DC/Power casting. Clerics are better now.
    And some people mentioned to add archon.. Before all this, only Fvs had jump of faith, now everyone can use it.. Remember guys, jump of faith is class feature and so archon.. I don't think it's smart to take away what unique features one class have and give it to everyone away..

    AE(Exalted angel) change: yes! I agree that epic moment is very weak right now. CD is of curse, why not don't mess with it and add one simple unique feature. Angelic wraith: whenever you get hit magically or physically there is a chance epic archon (not shoulder) will be summoned to aid you in battle. Or something like that.. It's an angel after all, they have to be better and one step ahead of anyone else (human, drow etc)

    Lastly, lets don't say something like.. Oh, add +5 spell pen and +5 spell dc while on angel mode or something that really over powered and not well calculated. Sorry, I really don't mean anything bad by saying this... But, I think we should look more into what is divine and who they truly are.. Like for example: did you guys know that angels are originally made from fire? It's not always light, also Angels in D&D are naturally immune to some spells like electric.. So maybe they should have some spell resistance? Also it would be cool if ascendancy become toggle "angel"(not necessarily) and epic moment would be Arch-angel (just an idea) same effect like angel, but add wings or make it look like dramatic angel (?) lol. Let party say, wow!! Cool angel!
    Doh, I always forget to add.. About epic archon I mentioned above, why not extend the limit and allow that skill to summon 3 or 5 max archon (just like puddings)

  10. #210
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    They could add something that lets anyone summon archon, and when you already can do it because you're fvs, archon is more powerful (double damage, double crit, twice fast shooting, using 100% spellpower instead of 50%).

    They should also modify wings: 'if you already have this ability, it now costs 0 SP, you get double uses and cooldown is reduced to 1.5 second)'.
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  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    They could add something that lets anyone summon archon, and when you already can do it because you're fvs, archon is more powerful (double damage, double crit, twice fast shooting, using 100% spellpower instead of 50%).

    They should also modify wings: 'if you already have this ability, it now costs 0 SP, you get double uses and cooldown is reduced to 1.5 second)'.
    Interesting idea, I respect your opinion on that wing ability sounds good btw
    Hmm.. If we going to change that.. Maybe we just keep 10sp per use for balance.
    My archon crit for 213 damage so, if we going to double it. It would be little op

  12. #212

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    I understand the developers not want to completely redo the existing epic destinies.
    Overall, I think they are nice; adjustments are quite welcome.
    Going over everything in detail, hashing it all out, gives us a chance to help you understand what we feel is less and more important.


    Divines have blue bars, hence they are more casters in a way than melees.
    I like the premise put forth in comparison to other epic destinies:

    Make Unyeilding more like Dreadnought without being overpowered, allowing melee fans a way to level up the divine sphere.
    {Balancing the three stances instead of eliminating seems reasonable, making one have to choose instead of auto picking SAT.}

    Make Exalted Angel more like Draconic with a focus on light, force, positive energy and fire instead of elements.
    {Limited DC and Spell Pen, emphasizes on blowing up things.}
    [You can solve the archon problem indirectly by granting a tier 5 Sunburst SLA with a super low cooldown, as each spell hit counts as charge, and Sunburst does less damage overall. Include that with quickening divine wrath and you have a somewhat stable light engine.]

    Make the new ED somewhat like Magistar with a divine feel to it.
    {Its a new destiny, lets not waste it, show us the genius that made divine disciple again!}


    Thanks for all you do, you have come a long way since Atari Adventure.
    Last edited by Silverleafeon; 12-19-2013 at 01:21 AM.

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    I'd say the core feature missing are familliars (partially mitigated with necro pet for wizard) and animal companions
    Yup, those as well, and I'd like to see them in-game, too.

    Though I'll claim a familiar is far more minor feature (less impact on play) than domains. Clerics without domains are like if Druids didn't have shape-shifting.

  14. #214
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    Yup, those as well, and I'd like to see them in-game, too.

    Though I'll claim a familiar is far more minor feature (less impact on play) than domains. Clerics without domains are like if Druids didn't have shape-shifting.
    Funny, as I've never seen a D&D video game where shape shifting would be worth of using (except DDO of course) ; )
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  15. #215
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    Default Angel of Death

    Wow guys! I didn't know in D&D there is fallen angel = angel of death..
    Wouldn't be cool if ascendancy will transfer you to an angel and so reborn in light, but when you use reborn in light while dead you become angel of death. Reborn in Darkness: you get some pretty dark effects..

  16. #216

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    On the subject of epic reincarnating from another thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    I didn't find shadowdancer all that bad for my wizard. +6 INT, a temporary 100% dodge clickie and evasion. The evasion worked out well since I took insightful reflexes.

    I thought divine was actually weaker because there was no way to buff my DC.

  17. #217

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    I ran into someone last night who claimed the Devs said they would never raise the level of epic destinies, after I stated that I have been predicting for some time that the level cap for ED will increase to 10 when the level cap goes to 30.

    I never read his assumed quote and we could not find it; all the official word heard (even in private for me) is that at the end of next year when the level cap
    goes to 30 that:
    Quote Originally Posted by ProducerRowan View Post
    Happy Winter Holidays!

    Our final update of 2014 will extend the level cap to 30, which is intended to be DDO’s “permanent” level cap and complete the Epic levels. With this update we’ll be looking at ways to complete and improve existing systems like Epic Destinies..
    It goes on to say:

    Quote Originally Posted by ProducerRowan View Post

    Please let us know what you’d like to see next year, and onward as we develop and improve Dungeons & Dragons Online.
    Nothing more has been said on the subject (at least to me) and it makes sense not to talk about things not currently being worked on.
    We avoided the great Depression of the early 21st century, but still DDO is luxury entertainment and the economy greatly influences luxury items.

    But I'll give my reason why I still predict and want the level cap of ED to rise to 10.

    Look at your xp scale atm, closely.
    If you max out your epic destinies you are 1 xp short of ED level 6.
    Why do that if the level cap will stay at 5?

    It opens up more end game activity.
    More reasons to adjust your toon for a particular sphere and work on it.
    More reasons to consider a few various reincarnates.

    It raises caster levels to meet character levels.
    This could mean that the innates of Draconic and Magistar need rewriting.
    Frankly all the innates will need a brushover/glance thru at that time.

    It grants 16 more ED points, and who amoung us will sneer at that?
    Look at your current spending and compare it to the enhancement trees.
    Big difference, the ED points spent look like a ghost town.

    The big questions are the Innates.
    A long time ago, I gave examples of how to increase every ED to 10.
    The devs have a lot of options with the Innates.
    Innates 6 thru 10 could be tied to character level, they could be minor, if power creep was a concern.

    Some EDs could use a bit more innate love.
    The Epic Moment in the Draconic ED atm does not work, however if the innates are extened outward,
    there would be an adjustment to extending Draconic Fury duration that would actually allow the epic moment to properly function.

    This all brings up, should all innates be tied to character level?
    Probably, but being a player, I would rather not see that happen.
    However, increasing the amount of innates would be a comprise making that acceptable.
    Particularly if the innates 6 thru 10 were significant.

    Regardless of the Innates which is the only things that really needs working on for the ED level to increase to 10,
    the ED system as a whole is very pleasing in my eyes. Adding another divine is essential, and I hope that goes well.
    Occasional review and adjustment of any system is necessary as well. Thank you.

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    I ran into someone last night who claimed the Devs said they would never raise the level of epic destinies, after I stated that I have been predicting for some time that the level cap for ED will increase to 10 when the level cap goes to 30.

    I never read his assumed quote and we could not find it; all the official word heard (even in private for me) is that at the end of next year when the level cap
    goes to 30 that:


    It goes on to say:



    Nothing more has been said on the subject (at least to me) and it makes sense not to talk about things not currently being worked on.
    We avoided the great Depression of the early 21st century, but still DDO is luxury entertainment and the economy greatly influences luxury items.

    But I'll give my reason why I still predict and want the level cap of ED to rise to 10.

    Look at your xp scale atm, closely.
    If you max out your epic destinies you are 1 xp short of ED level 6.
    Why do that if the level cap will stay at 5?

    It opens up more end game activity.
    More reasons to adjust your toon for a particular sphere and work on it.
    More reasons to consider a few various reincarnates.

    It raises caster levels to meet character levels.
    This could mean that the innates of Draconic and Magistar need rewriting.
    Frankly all the innates will need a brushover/glance thru at that time.

    It grants 16 more ED points, and who amoung us will sneer at that?
    Look at your current spending and compare it to the enhancement trees.
    Big difference, the ED points spent look like a ghost town.

    The big questions are the Innates.
    A long time ago, I gave examples of how to increase every ED to 10.
    The devs have a lot of options with the Innates.
    Innates 6 thru 10 could be tied to character level, they could be minor, if power creep was a concern.

    Some EDs could use a bit more innate love.
    The Epic Moment in the Draconic ED atm does not work, however if the innates are extened outward,
    there would be an adjustment to extending Draconic Fury duration that would actually allow the epic moment to properly function.

    This all brings up, should all innates be tied to character level?
    Probably, but being a player, I would rather not see that happen.
    However, increasing the amount of innates would be a comprise making that acceptable.
    Particularly if the innates 6 thru 10 were significant.

    Regardless of the Innates which is the only things that really needs working on for the ED level to increase to 10,
    the ED system as a whole is very pleasing in my eyes. Adding another divine is essential, and I hope that goes well.
    Occasional review and adjustment of any system is necessary as well. Thank you.
    +1. I would love to see ED level cap increase. I actually think, they maybe will add.. 1 or 2 extra levels into all destinies.
    btw, you are pretty good theorist lol You think they going to add 4 more levels once level cap 30? so it would be something like -
    - Enhancement ( level 1 - 20 ) Epic destiny ( epic 1 - 10 ). Hm.. that actually make good sense, you know what they can do?
    Once you cap one epic sphere for example ( level 6 exalted angel ) you will be able to scroll up and there is another tier of destiny
    "ultimate epic destiny" (?). There will be another list of extremely powerful destiny from level 7 to 10.. Sorry (lol), I got little too over excited about it.

    But yeah, you have really good point there! I just worry about current epic destiny (innate) like for example: exalted angel = ascendancy.. I mean,
    it's almost sounds like.. this is it! this is our final work! enjoy!.. lol you know what I'm trying to say. :P What do you think about it? How do you think they can
    increase level cap for those destinies which uses, epic transformation or epic moment.

  19. #219
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    Piloto, Vargouille:

    Once you've had time to digest all our feedback and discuss it internally, please let us know your thoughts on how the divine Epic Destinies might look going forward, both in terms of any changes to existing destinies, or a potential new destiny.

  20. #220

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    Read thru this thread:

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ngs-to-pan-out

    Seem like an awful lot of player's posts would be solved with a review/improved/creation of new inside the divine sphere.
    Thanks Devs for considering this.

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