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  1. #1
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    Default Dex Monk Build needed please

    im new to monks and would like to build one around the ninja spy dex boni for shortswords. featwise i thought about the twf line and the whirlwind attack line for more dodge. i have enough cleaving toons with overwhelming crit, so that can be cut out even if it hits my overall dps.

    i have basically not clue about the all the monk special attacks. in a dex build, should i put my levelup points towards wisdom anyway, should i balance between dex and wis or only go dex?

    its a first life drow.

    thanks to anyone who can help out

  2. #2
    Community Member inspiredunease's Avatar
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    I've also wanted to try a whirlwind dex-based for a while, but I definitely still want to fit in OC. What follows is a build I want to to try out in a future life on my main. Not sure how useful it will be on a first life tomeless toon, but it might give you ideas:

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.03
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Stabby McStabberson
    Level 28 Lawful Neutral Drow Male
    (20 Monk \ 8 Epic) 
    Hit Points: 394
    Spell Points: 1236592 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 15
    Reflex: 25
    Will: 16
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 28)
    Strength             16                    23
    Dexterity            18                    31
    Constitution         12                    17
    Intelligence         10                    15
    Wisdom               14                    19
    Charisma             10                    15
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    +3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11
    +4 Tome of Strength used at level 15
    +4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 15
    +4 Tome of Constitution used at level 15
    +4 Tome of Intelligence used at level 15
    +4 Tome of Wisdom used at level 15
    +4 Tome of Charisma used at level 15
    +5 Tome of Strength used at level 19
    +5 Tome of Dexterity used at level 19
    +5 Tome of Constitution used at level 19
    +5 Tome of Intelligence used at level 19
    +5 Tome of Wisdom used at level 19
    +5 Tome of Charisma used at level 19
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 28)
    Balance               7                    30
    Bluff                 0                    10
    Concentration         5                    37
    Diplomacy             0                    10
    Disable Device        n/a                  n/a
    Haggle                0                    10
    Heal                  4                    26
    Hide                  4                    18
    Intimidate            0                    10
    Jump                  3                    16
    Listen                2                    14
    Move Silently         4                    26
    Open Lock             n/a                  n/a
    Perform               n/a                  n/a
    Repair                0                    10
    Search                0                    12
    Spellcraft            0                    10
    Spot                  2                    37
    Swim                  3                    14
    Tumble                5                    21
    Use Magic Device      2                    21
    
    Level 1 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 2 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 3 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Dodge
    Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness
    
    
    Level 4 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 5 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 6 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Mobility
    
    
    Level 7 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 8 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 9 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 10 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 11 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 12 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
    
    
    Level 13 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 14 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 15 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 16 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 17 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 18 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack
    
    
    Level 19 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 20 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 21 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical
    
    
    Level 22 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 23 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 24 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise
    
    
    Level 25 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 26 (Epic)
    Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 27 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Whirlwind Attack
    
    
    Level 28 (Epic)
    Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Elusive Target
    Enhancement: Drow - Spell Resistance (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Drow - Drow Dexterity (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Drow - Xen'drik Weapon Training (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Drow - Venom Lore (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Drow - Venom Lore (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Drow - Venom Lore (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Drow - Xen'drik Weapon Training (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Drow - Improved Dodge (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Drow - Improved Dodge (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Drow - Improved Dodge (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Drow - Xen'drik Weapon Training (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Drow - Venomed Blades (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Drow - Venomed Blades (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Drow - Venomed Blades (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Drow - Xen'drik Weapon Training (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Ninja Training (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Ninja Training (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Shadow Veil (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Poisoned Darts (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Diversion (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Ninja Master (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Impending Doom (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Wave of Despair (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Unbalancing Strike (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Agility (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Agility (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Agility (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Sting of the Ninja (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Dexterity (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - No Mercy (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - No Mercy (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - No Mercy (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Dexterity (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Crippling Strike (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Shadow Double (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Bastion of Purity (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Deft Strikes (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Deft Strikes (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Deft Strikes (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Iron Skin (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Iron Skin (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Iron Skin (Rank 3)
    The build would be run in Legendary Dreadnought with Dance of Flowers, Standing in Stone and Cocoon as twists (I believe you can still get a blue bar for it just with +sp items, if not, would have to drop standing in stone for endless faith or something). Playstyle will be to cleave, great cleave and whirlwind to apply lots of poison damage to groups. I ignore the DC based dark finishers and touch of death as in my experience even with a wisdom build they're difficult to land. Ki should all go into dark attacks, preferably spammed just after a great cleave to try and apply it to a group. The either use the neg level finisher, or the other one dependent on if you need a little healing and ki top up. Should be pretty survivable with improved evasion, ridiculous reflex saves, lots of PRR, 28% dodge and cocooon self-healing and should do reasonable damage with celestia + rebellion.

    To modify for a first life I would probably drop overwhelming crit as you said, get whirlwind earlier, put points into int instead of strength. I'd still grab cleave/great cleave for the AOE, but pick up different epic feats. Possibly improved martial arts and blinding speed?
    Last edited by inspiredunease; 12-03-2013 at 06:55 AM.

  3. #3
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    thanks a lot so far.

    am i right that when i would take the epic feat vorpal strike (http://ddowiki.com/page/Vorpal_Strikes), also handwraps would be considred slashing thus profiting from improved critical slashing and profiting from the +dex to hit and damage from ninja spy core 1 and 2?

    i know i would get vorpal from tier5 ninja spy, but this could maybe be a good reason for pumping wisdom and having the option to be decent with monk special attack dcs? but then again, this would mean i had to use kamas instead of shortswords or get 2 improved critical feats

  4. #4
    Community Member inspiredunease's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-Shell View Post
    thanks a lot so far.

    am i right that when i would take the epic feat vorpal strike (http://ddowiki.com/page/Vorpal_Strikes), also handwraps would be considred slashing thus profiting from improved critical slashing and profiting from the +dex to hit and damage from ninja spy core 1 and 2?
    Nope. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way, improved crit: bludgeon is needed for handwraps, as vorpal strikes doesn't alter the original damage type. None of the enhancements work for them either (they used to for Ivy wraps but they've been nerfed, and relegating yourself to a sub-par set of wraps is not good anyway). If you're not going shortswords I wouldn't recommend going drow. Or full ninja spy. The whole point is the synergy between drow shortswords and the ninja spy enhancements. That and all the fun poison procs, which also don't work with handwraps.

    Quote Originally Posted by C-Shell View Post
    this could maybe be a good reason for pumping wisdom and having the option to be decent with monk special attack dcs?
    Nope. You will not have good DCs with the finishers unless you have a lot of investment in wisdom. Even then they'll not be great (DC = 10 + Monk level + Wisdom modifier = 10 + 20 + 30 (requires 70 wisdom) = 60 DC, not enough for EE). The DCs that are worth working for with monks are QP and SF, these can have great DCs because they are affected by stunning/shattering/combat mastery items (you can theoretically get +20 QP DC from gear) and tactics enhancements (can get +3 from dwarf/bladeforged/warforged, +6 from legendary tactics +2 from tactician and +3 from gmof innates). If you want a DC based build, I would suggest you do a dwarf unarmed build. With a lot of work you should be able to get a 70+ DC for QP/SF on a first life toon on a dwarf unarmed build. Otherwise, just forget DCs.

  5. #5
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    understood sir. i dont want DCs that are just good in enorm, so i will pump dex.

  6. #6
    Community Member Todkaninchen's Avatar
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    One thing to remember on build points...

    You get AC bonus from DEX and WIS! As a monk, you can also get a reasonable amount of AC which--in combo with a blur item, dodge, and your 25% incorp from shadow fade--can mitigate a lot of damage while you DPS.

    So WIS boosts both DC's on things like stunning fist, quivering palm, etc. and AC in addition.

    Also, some abilities (like stunning fist and quivering palm) can also be gear boosted as well as mentioned. (stunning fist by stunning and quivering palm with sunder). While stunning fist won't work with short swords, quivering palm does...

    Oh, and consider getting Fists of Iron. ALSO works with weapons.

    Another possibility is Whirling Steel Strike for longs words...

    ...which--with the Ninja core--makes them also DEX to hit and DEX to damage.

  7. #7
    Community Member Todkaninchen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by inspiredunease View Post
    Nope. You will not have good DCs with the finishers unless you have a lot of investment in wisdom. Even then they'll not be great (DC = 10 + Monk level + Wisdom modifier = 10 + 20 + 30 (requires 70 wisdom) = 60 DC, not enough for EE). The DCs that are worth working for with monks are QP and SF, these can have great DCs because they are affected by stunning/shattering/combat mastery items (you can theoretically get +20 QP DC from gear) and tactics enhancements (can get +3 from dwarf/bladeforged/warforged, +6 from legendary tactics +2 from tactician and +3 from gmof innates). If you want a DC based build, I would suggest you do a dwarf unarmed build. With a lot of work you should be able to get a 70+ DC for QP/SF on a first life toon on a dwarf unarmed build. Otherwise, just forget DCs.
    Part of that is tactics...

    Are you going to be able to stun/QP everything?

    No.

    What you will usually be able to stun/QP with a moderate build most of the time are enemy casters...

    ...and you should have the mobility to get to them, dispose of them, and then go back to beating down melees. If you're in a party and the (other) melees go straight to the enemy melees, this also gives them time to pull aggro and let you add in your sneak attack damage as well.

    So, just saying, play to your strengths, eh?

  8. #8
    Community Member inspiredunease's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todkaninchen View Post
    You get AC bonus from DEX and WIS! As a monk, you can also get a reasonable amount of AC which--in combo with a blur item, dodge, and your 25% incorp from shadow fade--can mitigate a lot of damage while you DPS.
    No. It can't. Ac is completely meaningless in any and all end-game at the moment. This has been proven to the point where even Therigar has shut up about it. High reflex saves however are worth shooting for. Wisdom does not help with this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Todkaninchen View Post
    So WIS boosts both DC's on things like stunning fist, quivering palm, etc. and AC in addition.
    SF is irrelevant on a weapon build. Good QP DCs could be attainable, but as you state in your second post, they're situational at best.

    Quote Originally Posted by Todkaninchen View Post
    Oh, and consider getting Fists of Iron. ALSO works with weapons.
    Fists of iron is nice if you can fit it in. AP are tight with a ninja spy build unfortunately. Having to put 40 points in to get the capstone is constrictive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Todkaninchen View Post
    Another possibility is Whirling Steel Strike for longs words...
    This doesn't make sense on a drow build.

    Quote Originally Posted by Todkaninchen View Post
    {The rest of your second post}
    Can effectively be filed under: "learn to play a monk". Which is solid advice.

  9. #9
    Community Member Todkaninchen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by inspiredunease View Post
    No. It can't. Ac is completely meaningless in any and all end-game at the moment. This has been proven to the point where even Therigar has shut up about it. High reflex saves however are worth shooting for. Wisdom does not help with this.
    All I know is the combination works for me to the point I can self-heal with wholeness of body and the GMoF insta-heal every 5 minutes while I see a whole chain of "Blurry" "Miss" "Dodge" "Incorporeal". You're not going to have everyone miss you all the time. But the combination of a 50% defense or 68% defense or whatever at level, a 25% incorp chance, a 28% dodge chance, and 20% permablur means you don't have to have a very high AC to be valuable because it only has to work after something gets past the other 2 or 3 (2 if an enemy has true seeing) miss rolls.


    Quote Originally Posted by inspiredunease View Post
    SF is irrelevant on a weapon build. Good QP DCs could be attainable, but as you state in your second post, they're situational at best.
    Like you said, learn to play monk. Being able to pick a single target, knock them in the head, and tear them down with blades may not be the simplest way, but it can be very effective situationally.


    Quote Originally Posted by inspiredunease View Post
    Fists of iron is nice if you can fit it in. AP are tight with a ninja spy build unfortunately. Having to put 40 points in to get the capstone is constrictive.
    40 points is half your total AP. Fists of Iron shows up in all three monk enhancement trees and--of the other three elemental strikes--one's a DC-based one anyway. It's a 5ki spammable attack that gives you +3[W] damage, and boosted crit range and multiplier on a 3 second cool down. Unless you're doing a QP build or other means of insta-kill, it's a big DPS jump, especially if you chain it with Shadow Double.

    Quote Originally Posted by inspiredunease View Post
    This doesn't make sense on a drow build.
    Depends on the blade. If you have/need/get an exceptional longsword (Oathblade, perhaps, or Tinah or Threnalian War blades at low level) or something else that offsets the +4 damage from Xendrick weapon training, it might be worth the feat. Otherwise, stay with short swords

  10. #10
    Community Member inspiredunease's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todkaninchen View Post
    All I know is the combination works for me to the point I can self-heal with wholeness of body and the GMoF insta-heal every 5 minutes while I see a whole chain of "Blurry" "Miss" "Dodge" "Incorporeal". You're not going to have everyone miss you all the time. But the combination of a 50% defense or 68% defense or whatever at level, a 25% incorp chance, a 28% dodge chance, and 20% permablur means you don't have to have a very high AC to be valuable because it only has to work after something gets past the other 2 or 3 (2 if an enemy has true seeing) miss rolls.
    All enemies have 5% miss chance against you. Regardless of AC: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...eality-and-you. Please read this thread and notice that Therigar has fallen strangely silent. Maybe he's testing whether he can get 5 or, gasp 10% mis-chance in EEs. Either way. It's effectively meaningless and not worth building for. I'm disappointed too, I used to have an untouchable monk with icy raiments too, but AC has been nerfed to oblivion for end game. Accept it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Todkaninchen View Post
    40 points is half your total AP. Fists of Iron shows up in all three monk enhancement trees and--of the other three elemental strikes--one's a DC-based one anyway. It's a 5ki spammable attack that gives you +3[W] damage, and boosted crit range and multiplier on a 3 second cool down. Unless you're doing a QP build or other means of insta-kill, it's a big DPS jump, especially if you chain it with Shadow Double.
    I would agree with you here. It is great DPS. So is unbalancing strike. The build i posted can't fit it in, but I agree with you, it's worth getting if you can.
    Quote Originally Posted by Todkaninchen View Post
    Depends on the blade. If you have/need/get an exceptional longsword (Oathblade, perhaps, or Tinah or Threnalian War blades at low level) or something else that offsets the +4 damage from Xendrick weapon training, it might be worth the feat. Otherwise, stay with short swords
    Again, we're talking about optimising an end-game Drow shortsword build. Why would you use longswords? Celestia and rebellion are both better DPS than Tinah without even taking into account that you would have to waste a feat to use it.

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