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  1. #1
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    Default ATTN Devs Compiled Data Epic XP: CoV

    This post is the result of a project that began a little over a week ago in response to the current level of gaining CoV in game. The character used was mid-heroic TR when U20 launched and after reaching 20 I recorded his progress. The characters progress was made pugging so there were some variables (some deaths, sometimes trap bonus, etc). The intent is to show in a real example (not theory) of how much XP and CoV are gained by taking a mostly EH tour through nearly every epic quest with minimal repeating.

    I am not VIP, the character does not have an Epic Tome of Learning and used no XP pots during this. Unless otherwise stated the only bonus to XP applied is 5% from Voice of the Master and 2% Ship Buff.

    Warning

    Long post ahead, the TLR totals in second post.

    House P

    All on Epic Hard

    A Small Problem
    xp: 36,668
    cov: 12
    BB: No

    Partycrashers
    xp: 30,431
    cov: 12
    BB: No

    Snitch
    xp: 24,650
    cov: 12
    BB: No

    Big Top
    xp: 25,401
    cov: 12
    BB: No

    House D

    All on Epic Hard

    Bargain of Blood
    xp: 17,817
    cov: 12
    BB: No

    Black Loch
    xp: 26,040
    cov: 12
    BB: No

    Tide Turns
    xp: 29,854
    cov: 12
    BB: No

    Marketplace

    Epic Hard

    Devil Assault
    xp: 37,627
    cov: 15
    BB: N/A

    *Level 21*

    House K

    All on Epic Hard

    Last Stand
    xp: 22,712
    cov: 15
    BB: No

    Fathom
    xp: 38,957
    cov: 15
    BB: No

    Claw
    xp: 28,384
    cov: 15
    BB: No

    Deeps
    xp: 44, 373
    cov: 15
    BB: No

    Von1
    xp: 20,695
    cov: 15
    BB: No

    Von2
    xp: 29,444
    cov: 15
    BB: No

    Von3
    xp: 94,289
    cov: 18
    BB: No

    Von4
    xp: 48,324
    cov: 18
    BB: No

    Von3 Epic Normal (1st time run)
    xp: 73,088
    cov: 10
    BB: No

    *Level 22*

    Harbor

    All on Epic Hard

    Lord of Dust
    xp: 39,382
    cov: 15
    BB: No

    Servants
    xp: 49,750
    cov: 15
    BB: No

    Spinner
    xp: 47, 520
    cov: 15
    BB: No

    Rift
    xp: 50,743
    cov: 15
    BB: No

    Sands

    All on Epic Hard

    Wiz King
    xp: 57,679
    cov: 18
    BB: No

    OoB
    xp: 53,497
    cov: 15
    BB: No

    Chains
    xp: 46,351
    cov: 18
    BB: No

    Von3 Epic Normal Repeat
    xp: 84,506
    cov: 10
    BB: No

    *Level 23*

    Von5 Epic Hard
    xp: 138,307
    cov: N/A
    BB: No

    Von6 Epic Hard
    xp: 18,109
    cov: 18
    BB: No

    Eveningstar

    All on Epic Elite

    Impossible Demands
    xp: 34,327
    cov: 30
    BB: Yes

    Lost Thread
    xp: 53,923
    cov: 30
    BB: Yes

    Unquiet Graves
    xp: 39,163
    cov: 30
    BB: Yes

    Battle for EStar
    xp: 65,278
    cov: 30
    BB: Yes

    *Begin Global +30% XP Weekend*

    Sschindylryn

    All on Epic Elite

    Rusted Blades
    xp: 42,060
    cov: 35
    BB: Yes

    Death Undone
    xp: 46,695
    cov: 35
    BB: Yes

    Broken Chains
    xp: 56,150
    cov: 35
    BB: Yes

    Portal Opens
    xp: 67,764
    cov: 35
    BB: Yes

    Von3 Epic Normal Repeat
    xp: 89,075
    cov: 10
    BB: No

    *Level 24*

    Demonweb

    All on Epic Elite

    Trial by Fury
    xp: 44, 523
    cov: 40
    BB: No

    Deal & Demon
    xp: 57,803
    cov: 40
    BB: Yes

    Reclaiming Rift
    xp: 59,183
    cov: 40
    BB: Yes

    Druids Curse

    All on Epic Hard

    Outbreak
    xp: 26,852
    cov: 21
    BB: Yes

    Overgrowth
    xp: 27,593
    cov: 21
    BB: Yes

    Thorn & Paw
    xp: 41,507
    cov: 21
    BB: Yes

    Druids Curse
    xp: 46,879
    cov: 21
    BB: Yes

    Don't Drink Water EH
    xp: 40,453
    cov: 18
    BB: Yes

    Belly of Beast EH
    xp: 49,440
    cov: 18
    BB: Yes

    High Road

    All on Epic Hard

    Detour
    xp: 57,098
    cov: 24
    BB: Yes

    Lost in Swamp
    xp: 44,971
    cov: 24
    BB: Yes

    Rest Stop
    xp: 41,976
    cov: 24
    BB: Yes

    Stay at Inn
    xp: 35,341
    cov: 24
    BB: Yes

    End of Road
    xp: 58,237
    cov: 24
    BB: Yes

    Gianthold

    All on Epic Hard

    Trial by Fire
    xp: 43,245
    cov: 24
    BB: No

    Maze of Madness
    xp: 41,046
    cov: 24
    BB: No

    Foundation of Discord
    xp: 45,849
    cov: 24
    BB: No

    Cry for Help
    xp: 55, 938
    cov: 24
    BB: No

    *Level 25*

    Feast or Famine
    xp: 48,880
    cov: 24
    BB: No

    Crucible
    xp: 82,030
    cov: 24
    BB: No

    Madstone
    xp: 70,357
    cov: 24
    BB: No

    Prison of Planes
    xp: 44,570
    cov: 24
    BB: No

    Cabal
    xp: 35,001
    cov: 24
    BB: No

    Tor
    xp: 59,861
    cov: 24
    BB: No

    Wheloon

    All on Epic Hard

    Lesson in Deception
    xp: 50,261
    cov: 30
    BB: Yes

    Army of Shadow
    xp: 49,114
    cov: 30
    BB: Yes

    Friends in Low Places
    xp: 62,660
    cov: 30
    BB: Yes

    Thrill of Hunt
    xp: 30,331
    cov: 30
    BB: Yes

    Thru Mirror Darkly
    xp: 68,166
    cov: 30
    BB: Yes

    Thru Mirror Darkly EH Repeat
    xp: 43,626
    cov: 30
    BB: No

    Stormhorns

    All on Epic Hard

    Lines of Supply
    xp: 45,164
    cov: 33
    BB: Yes

    Trackers Trap
    xp: 42,009
    cov: 33
    BB: Yes

    *Level 26*

    Breaking the Ranks
    xp: 36,944
    cov: 33
    BB: Yes

    Break in the Ice
    xp: 74,707
    cov: 33
    BB: Yes

    Line of Supply Epic Normal Repeat
    xp: 32,810
    cov: 20
    BB: No

    What Goes Up
    xp: 82,619
    cov: 33
    BB: Yes

    Summary on Post 2.
    Last edited by Braegan; 12-02-2013 at 11:55 AM.
    Git off mah lawn!

    If, If's and But's was Candies and Nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

  2. #2
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    So in summary, a tour of nearly every epic quest in game at this time on epic hard yielded the following:

    3,486,077 Quest XP
    1,169,194 Optional, Saga, *S/E/R*, Daily Dice XP

    4,655,271 Total XP. Halfway through level 26

    1,609 CoV

    *Current totals of S/E/R by zone* :

    Zone S/E/R

    Storm Horns: 53/0/0
    High Road: 13/0/1
    Gianthold: 48(Giants), 22(other)/0/0
    Demonweb: 1/2/0
    Sschindylryn: 64/0/1
    Underdark: 65/3/2
    King's Forest: 25/7/1
    Wheloon: 177/3/1
    Last edited by Braegan; 12-02-2013 at 02:17 PM.
    Git off mah lawn!

    If, If's and But's was Candies and Nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

  3. #3
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    Default

    So those were the facts on leveling up so far.

    My opinion is the number of CoV is a bit too steep.

    I suggest lowering the number needed and/or including in CoV for Saga turn ins in addition to getting them as a quest reward.
    Git off mah lawn!

    If, If's and But's was Candies and Nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

  4. #4
    2015 DDO Players Council Seikojin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braegan View Post
    So those were the facts on leveling up so far.

    My opinion is the number of CoV is a bit too steep.

    I suggest lowering the number needed and/or including in CoV for Saga turn ins in addition to getting them as a quest reward.
    What if you ran them on eh 2 more times?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braegan View Post

    My opinion is the number of CoV is a bit too steep.
    Have no fear, soon the all-is-fine fanbois will be here to let you know there is nothing wrong with DDO except your playstyle.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seikojin View Post
    What if you ran them on eh 2 more times?
    I'm sure you already know the answer to that question.

    Yes running nearly every epic in game three times over should give you enough xp to cap (28) and enough CoV to ETR. In theroy, you should XP cap long before you gain the needed CoV. As in my factual example I am 2/3 on XP cap and a good margin less then 1/2 the needed CoV.

    I think that my suggestion to add CoV as a saga choice is a reasonable resolution. It's not asking for an easy button. It does require playing large amounts of the games content. It would cut down CoV grinding while at XP Cap.
    Git off mah lawn!

    If, If's and But's was Candies and Nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Have no fear, soon the all-is-fine fanbois will be here to let you know there is nothing wrong with DDO except your playstyle.
    Lol, probably. However, this is how most of them recommend to play. No super XP farming. Just hiting all the content I could. I purposely chose to try that out and these are the results. Had I skipped any epicable content while leveling in heroics and Epic Elite BB Streaked, I would be capped on xp with about half the CoV needed.
    Git off mah lawn!

    If, If's and But's was Candies and Nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braegan View Post
    So those were the facts on leveling up so far.

    My opinion is the number of CoV is a bit too steep.

    I suggest lowering the number needed and/or including in CoV for Saga turn ins in addition to getting them as a quest reward.
    Once again we see evidence that 2,500 Comms is a reasonable figure which means you can run EH content through to 28 and maybe spend a little bit of time at 28 farming, and a little bit of time repeating some of the dungeons on your way to 28.

    I really do wish I could see the Turbine spreadsheet that came up with the magic 4,200 number.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasparion View Post
    Once again we see evidence that 2,500 Comms is a reasonable figure which means you can run EH content through to 28 and maybe spend a little bit of time at 28 farming, and a little bit of time repeating some of the dungeons on your way to 28.

    I really do wish I could see the Turbine spreadsheet that came up with the magic 4,200 number.
    I am not sold on an exact number just yet. But I do believe 4200 is too high.

    This evening I ran a three quests and did a tour of Estar Challenges. Hit level 27 and gathered another 26 cov, giving me 1635. With this current mechanic I will probably hit 28 with around 2k comms. If I was just hitting high xp quest farming , the number of CoV would be much less and the xp would be much greater.
    Last edited by Braegan; 12-02-2013 at 08:49 PM.
    Git off mah lawn!

    If, If's and But's was Candies and Nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braegan View Post
    I am not sold on an exact number just yet. But I do believe 4200 is too high.

    This evening I ran a three quests and did a tour of Estar Challenges. Hit level 27 and gathered another 26 cov, giving me 1635. With this current mechanic I will probably hit 28 with around 2k comms. If I was just hitting high xp quest farming , the number of CoV would be much less and the xp would be much greater.
    This here is the problem if a quest is worth more XP for w/e the reason devs decided then it stands to reason and is reasonable to expect the quest should be worth more valcoms.

    A quest that gives you 80k xp should give you more coms than a quest that gives you 20k xp.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    Insulting the development team is not allowed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jendrak
    Somebody should definitely explain to Turbine that when they roll up a new GM that INT is not dump stat.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkofDrasnia View Post
    This here is the problem if a quest is worth more XP for w/e the reason devs decided then it stands to reason and is reasonable to expect the quest should be worth more valcoms.

    A quest that gives you 80k xp should give you more coms than a quest that gives you 20k xp.
    I agree on that, as I also suggest raids should give a much larger sum of CoV. Would only help to liven up the raid scene.
    Git off mah lawn!

    If, If's and But's was Candies and Nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

  12. #12
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    shameless bumb.

    Would love at least a Read by a Dev post.
    Git off mah lawn!

    If, If's and But's was Candies and Nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

  13. #13
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    Have another bump. But even if the devs were to read it, I doubt very much they would respond. They know the system is broken, they built it that way to encourage sales...
    We want more Monster Manuals.

  14. #14
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    +1 to you for all of your hard work keeping track and posting all of this. I'll also add this quote from developer Vargouille:

    "Our current plan is that Iconic and Epic Hearts of Wood each require 4200 Commendations of Valor. This is close to our estimate of how many Commendations of Valor you would get from playing Epic Hard, non-ransacked quests and usually taking Commendations as the end reward, based on how many quests characters would finish between levels 20-28 (again, on Epic Hard)."

    For me on one character I got about 500 comms of valor from level 20-28 and on another I got about 1000. Very fishy....

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hathorian View Post

    For me on one character I got about 500 comms of valor from level 20-28 and on another I got about 1000. Very fishy....
    I got 900 comms going from 23-28. 4200 is way too high.

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    I think they added too many zeroes when they set it to 420.

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    2500 Coms for a heart

    2 million Karm for an EPL.

    Do that and ETR won't suck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hathorian View Post
    I'll also add this quote from developer Vargouille:

    "Our current plan is that Iconic and Epic Hearts of Wood each require 4200 Commendations of Valor. This is close to our estimate of how many Commendations of Valor you would get from playing Epic Hard, non-ransacked quests and usually taking Commendations as the end reward, based on how many quests characters would finish between levels 20-28 (again, on Epic Hard)."
    I bet he wishes he could go back in time and not have posted this. So too his bosses.

    Of course it would have been rather more bold to have come out and told the truth: "We expect you to earn an E Heart every second life, and buy one in-between."

    At least if they said that they would be being honest so we would have a solid starting point to argue from. Rather than the above comment which is just plain wrong. Has been proven wrong over and over. And really just shows how little trust we can place in their statements about how the game mechanics work.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    2500 Coms for a heart

    2 million Karm for an EPL.

    Do that and ETR won't suck.
    Agreed, that will help a lot.
    It's definitely an N-word.

  20. #20
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    We're reading all these threads. We are still considering possible changes. We don't feel that the intended number was truly missed, though speaking often doesn't make up for speaking with clarity in the first place. We are willing to considering changing the goal as well. Our initial analysis presumed earning XP by playing various quests, always at your level, on Epic Hard.

    Some analysis produced by players pretty closely matches the method we used to come up with 4200 Commendations:

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5177085

    Again, we're still considering changes and are not claiming all is perfect. Thank you all for your feedback.

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