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  1. #1
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    Default Melees need more and better enhancements!

    'Melee' classes for the purpose of the discussion/argument means any class that must engage in melee combat, with the sole exception of the Monk class. Monks do not need anymore help. The melee classes I'll be talking about are Fighters, Barbarians, Paladins, Rangers and Bards. Rogues overall are in a good position right now (3 class trees and UMD as a class skill).


    In General

    Just by looking at the enhancement trees I can tell that they weren't all made by the same person. That gives the enhancements overall a 'homemade' feel. The 'homemade' feel is good for quests, and it's one of the things I like about DDO. However, I think that systems like enhancements have to be consistent, so that all classes are equally fun to play.

    Bard Warchanter vs. Wiz/Sorc Eldritch Knight.

    Both get an enhancement that lets them equip and use medium armor. However, the EK enhancement is a tier 4 enhancement, while the bard version is tier 5. Mainly, this means that Wizards and Sorcerers do not have to sacrifice access to tier 5 abilities in other trees in order to get access to medium armor, while Bards do. Also, EK gives out ASF reduction from shields, as well. A mitigating factor is that Bards do not suffer ASF in medium armor after purchasing this enhancement, while players not using elves, half-elves or drow have to wait unti level 12 to gain the same -ASF% benefit from EK. Oh, wait, that isn't much of a mitigating factor, is it? After all, Armorer, the fifth-tier bard enhancement I've described, cannot be taken until lvl 12. Huh. So why is the Bard version of this enhancement on tier 5? Then there are the Martial Weapon Proficiency feats in both trees. The Bard version is on Tier 5 (remember how tier 5 enhancements are different from others?) while the Eldritch Knight version is on tier 2.

    Ranger Tempest vs. Monk Ninja Spy.

    Both have a fifth tier ability which gives the user a large doublestrike boost for a short amount of time. The ranger's "A Thousand Cuts" gives 90% doublestrike chance for six seconds at a cost of 6 AP, and has a cooldown of 2 minutes. The monk's "Shadow Double" gives 100% doublestrike for six seconds, costs 2 AP and 30 Ki to activate, but only has a 30 second cooldown. Wow. Monks get the best toys, don't they?

    Ranger Deepwood Stalker vs. every other tree with an SLA in it.

    DWS has a second tier ability called "Empathic Healing". This allows the user to use up an Animal Empathy charge in order to use Lesser Vigor as an SLA. The second rank of this enhancement lets the user cast a Mass Lesser Vigor effect. Now Sorcerers, Wizards, Druids, Clerics and Favored Souls get at least one SLA in their enhancement trees, and all of them have offensive options as SLAs. My own current Ranger character (lvl 14) gets 6 uses of Empathic Healing (animal empathy) per rest. My Druid can cast her SLAs, all them, as long as she has spell points. Clearly, "Empathic Healing" is rather weak. Now, one could argue that the mass version of the ability is very powerful. It is, but it has limited uses, and more importantly, no one expects or needs a ranger to use mass heals on the party. I don't mind tosses a heal if another party member needs it, but no one has ever asked me to heal them when I'm playing my ranger. My Druid? My FvS? Of course! But not my ranger. A mass heal is nice, but a ranger would be better served with single-target, higher tier Vigor spells.

    Then there are the "Wand Heightening" and "Wand and Scroll Mastery" enhancements. Bards get these as two separate enhancements, while Clerics and Druids get both of them combined into one enhancement, and a few other classes get the WaSM part, but not the WH portion. Very inconsistent.


    Barbarians

    The main problem with Barbarians, as I see it, are that they haven't gained additional durability to cope with increases in incoming damage from mobs. They only have access to medium armor, and thus less PRR, and they gain DR 7/- at level 20. This really isn't enough at level cap, not for a class that only relies on potions and the kindness of other players to heal them in the middle of combat. Currently, there are lots of Wand and Scroll enhancements that increase the efficacy of scrolls and wands. Why not give Barbarians something similar, except that it applies to healing potions?

    Concerning Frenzied Berserker... there is a limit to how many debuffs they can apply to themselves before they become too squishy to participate in melee combat. Someone who uses the Frenzied Berserker tree can theoretically debuff themselves with -58 AC and -20 PRR. Barbarians are supposed to have the ability to significantly reduce the amount of damage they take per hit in return for their lack of AC. I really hope that someone at Turbine will realize that Storm's Eye is an awful capstone and replace it with something that helps or heals the user instead of half-killing them. In order to get +25 damage from the capstone, the user has to take 100 damage, then take 25d20 damage over the course of 150 seconds and stay over 50% HP the entire time, if I'm reading it right. Oh, and don't forget the -25 penalties to to-hit and AC!

    Ravager is a nice tree, overall. However, the two enhancements "Demoralizing Success" and "Fear Me!" all have fixed DCs, 20 and 13 respectively. How does anyone expect those abilities to stick at higher levels? With those DCs, they'll only be effecive 5% of the time. Then there is the "Fury" mechanic. Stacks of "Fury" do not stack with items that have the "Deadly" ability on them. Eventually, this mechanic becomes useless since the "Deadly" items let me get the same benefit as "Fury", but I'll have it on *all the time!*

    I only have a few problems with Occult Slayer. Firstly, the 4 DR-improving enhancements are spit in the bucket compared to the damage barbarians take at later levels. Secondly, the word "Vampiric" usually implies that someone is gaining actual health, not temporary health. Thirdly, 5% chance to nullify *force* spells is not very useful when fire/acid/cold/electric spells are more common. Finally, "Metalline Bond" could use some improvement. Lacking the proper material DR for an enemy means that I'm less likely to damage an enemy, thus slowing the rate at which I raise the weapon bond. If I already have a weapon that lets me bypass the DR of the enemies I'm fighting, then I don't need this at all.


    Fighters

    Fighters have their own problems. They have only two enhancement trees, the fighter feat list hasn't gotten anything new added it ever, and despite the release of the Purple Dragon Knight Iconic, they didn't give out a PDK fighter enhancement tree. Then there is "Shattering Strike" in the Kensai tree, which is modified by the user's *wisdom* modifier. I know that Kensai is supposed to have synergy with the Monk class, but putting an ability that only a Monk could use effectively in a Fighter tree is ridiculous (Unless it's really powerful, like One With the Blade).

    The other tree fighters here, Stalwart Defender, has some very odd problems. A player could gain access to all of the enhancements that modify the Stalwart Defense defensive stance. However, you can't activate the stance until fighter level 6. More strange, however, is the number of enhancements that involve attacking with a shield. Equip a shield for the defensive and doublestrike bonuses? Sure! Actually attack with a shield? Not a very useful technique. First off, it is ALOT easier to find a DR-breaking or otherwise useful weapon than it is to find an offensively useful shield. Secondly, the doublestrike bonuses one gets from having the proper feats and using a shield are lost when one attacks with a shield, since that doublestrike bonus specifically applies to the *mainhand* weapon.


    Bards

    Bards. Ah yes, they can be considered a melee class, since they have two enhancement trees, one being Spellsinger (songs and magic), and the other being Warchanter (melee combat). The elves' AA tree makes them a ranged class, as well. They really need a third tree, or at least some new damage-dealing spells, since right now they have Spellcraft as a class skill, but no spells that are affected by Spellcraft. Yet for some reason they have plenty of healing spells but no Heal as a class skill.

    I can't help but wonder if the guy who did these enhancements was either an intern or just tired from staring at all the black and purple of the Shadowfell. The main problems of the Warchanter tree come from short-terms buffs, "Boast", and "Gathering Cold". Boast gives for the cost of a song a set amount of temp HP and +1[W] which lasts as long as the temp HP does. Now, since mobs do more damage as one gets into higher level content, how long do you think that +1[W] is going to last? Not very long, I'd say. And then there is "Gathering Cold". Basically, one gains 1 AC and 1 cold resistance whenever one is hit by cold damage. But not always. Spending 3 AP on this enhancement lets one gain a stack of +1 AC and +1 cold res 50% of the time, and only for 12 seconds. Okay, this mechanic is inconsistent, since it depends on what kind of damage the *enemy* is attacking the player with. This mechanic really needs to be replaced with something else. Anything else. Personally, I'm fond of the Freezing Ice ability on the Frozen Tunic.

    Not much to say about Spellsinger, except that Bards currently have no use for Spellcraft bonuses, and "Reviving Verse" would be alot more useful if there were Energy Drain effects that actually had DCs. Oh, and I'm not sure why Wail of the Banshee is part of the Spellsinger capstone. Bards would get alot more milage from Implosion or Wierd (although Wierd doesn't exist in DDO, like most illusion spells). Lastly, if I take the "Haunted" enhancement, then do I really need "Enthrallment"?

    Edit: Oh f***, I forgot to mention "Flicker". Taking this enhancement gives you a 5% chance of turning invisible for up to 6 seconds. when damaged. But guess what? If you are in melee and taking aggro, then turning invisible has no effect! If you're right in front of a mob, it can see you whether you are under stealth or invisible, if I'm reading the notes correctly. This ability would actually have an effect if the 'invisibility' portion of this enhancement was changed to '20% incorporeal miss chance', then it would be worth taking.


    Rangers

    One of the wierd things I've noticed is how opportunities to gain spellpower are arranged. For Rangers, they can only get spellpower by taking specific enhancements in the Deepwood Stalker tree. Both Wizards and Sorcerers can get some amount of universal spellpower in any of their trees, although the amount varies. Very, very odd. All a Ranger has is buffs and healing spells, and all Rangers need positive energy spellpower equally. Very unfair that we *have* to take points in a certain tree to get something very important to our survival.

    Arcane Archer is okay. Lots of versatility, as befits a tree that is also a racial tree, but there is no earth-shattering kaboom in this tree. "Inferno Shot", despite it's cool name, is rather boring. "Terror Arrows" and "Paralyzing Arrows" have fixed DCs. "Soul Magic" and "Moonbow" are interesting, since they give you small amounts of reliable temp sp procs.

    Deepwood Stalker is useful, whether you go ranged or melee as a Ranger. Not much to say about this one, since I've already made my feelings about the availability of positive energy spellpower for rangers, and the godawful "Empathic Healing", abundantly clear.

    Tempest has a few small problems. First, "Critical Accuracy" and "Critical Damage" really should be combined into one enhancement. They aren't very useful by themselves. Secondly, I'm not fond of any effect that has a shorter duration than an action boost but has a longer cooldown. I'm looking at you, tier 4 and 5 enhancements.


    Paladins

    Paladins suffer from the same spellpower problem that Rangers do. It looks like the dev in charge of the pallie trees tried to put all of the defensive and support functions into Sacred Defender (why not call if Defender of Siberys?), and the offensive ones in KotC. Problem being, pallies of any stripe need positive energy spellpower. And with two trees, the only choices I make when choosing paladin enhancements is how much offense/defense to I want. It's kind of boring.

    Sacred Defender (was someone trying to be PC? lol) is a bit better than Stalwart Defender. For one thing, there aren't any silly shield bash proc enhancements. For another, "Swift Defense" negates the movement penalty at tier 4. "Harbored By Light" at tier 5 makes shield-blocking an offensive attack. It still suffers from the 'no-access-to-the-defensive-stance-itis' problem that SD does.

    Knight of the Chalice suffers from being a bit too focused. The core abilities force one to choose between bonuses to damage and saves vs. undead or evil outsiders. Does anyone know how many evil undead outsiders there are in this game? None that I know of. No reason to make players choose between the two. "Divine Light" is nice, but it does a set amount of damage, which makes it less useful as one levels up. Then there is "Passion", in which one *only* gains temp HP when using "Divine Sacrifice". Meh. The worst offender is "Divine Retribution", which uses up a smite, but only has a % chance to activate the DC-based insta-kill effect until you put 3 AP into it.
    Last edited by HatsuharuZ; 11-30-2013 at 12:33 AM.

  2. #2
    Community Member whereispowderedsilve's Avatar
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    Awesome write up guildie! Tweet that ish to glin!: https://twitter.com/producerglin (or we will get someone 2 do it for us :P)

    Great work! Keep it up! Cheers! :P! ! !

    P.S. BUFF THE BARDS!
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  3. #3
    Community Member Nightmanis's Avatar
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    I like the idea of more. I love having more, because it means more to play with.

    As for better? Umm, I'll just take more.

    As a note, I'm far too lazy and just commented on the title.

  4. #4
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmanis View Post
    I like the idea of more. I love having more, because it means more to play with.

    As for better? Umm, I'll just take more.

    As a note, I'm far too lazy and just commented on the title.
    I said "better" because some of the enhancements, especially the ones I listed, are really substandard.

  5. #5
    Community Member guardianx2009's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HatsuharuZ View Post
    Edit: Oh f***, I forgot to mention "Flicker". Taking this enhancement gives you a 5% chance of turning invisible for up to 6 seconds. when damaged. But guess what? If you are in melee and taking aggro, then turning invisible has no effect! If you're right in front of a mob, it can see you whether you are under stealth or invisible, if I'm reading the notes correctly. This ability would actually have an effect if the 'invisibility' portion of this enhancement was changed to '20% incorporeal miss chance', then it would be worth taking.
    This isn't true. It does have an effect and is often underestimated.

    I noticed this back in the days before ED doing DQ2 elite solo. I noticed I was taking noticeably more damage when I took off my mabar cloak. Turns out the difference was the invisibility proc on the mabar cloak. When it procs, at the very least, it reduces the incoming damage from the archers.

  6. #6
    Community Member AestorTheKnight's Avatar
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    Completely agree with the OP.

    There are loads of abilities on many of the enhancements trees that are basically useless, and a waste of APs.

    Shattering Strike on the Kensei tree is a perfect example. Its basically almost completely worthless. But there are lots of examples of stuff like this on other tree's too.

    At present it feels many of the class's are badly balanced, as the OP has pointed out.

    I agree the new enhancement trees still need some work.
    So in everything, do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

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  7. #7
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    commenting on barbs because I know that class better than any other and have 2 that I play.

    FB- if you play a barb you really don't care about AC anyways. -58 AC is the same as having 58 AC. it don't matter. AC has been replaced with Dodge and PRR. that's where the barbs need a boost. I don't have Storms Eye on my FB barb because the damage to self is too excessive for the return.

    Ravager- Demoralizing Success actually procs a lot in heroics. haven't tried it in epics so cant comment on that. if it doesn't proc enough, than the DC does need to be boosted, otherwise its just a waste. I didn't waste the AP on Fear Me! there were other and better enhancements to take. Fury needs to stack with Deadly if its going to be a special barb enhancement. if any class can get the same thing from an item, whats so special about it?

    OS- take away the 20 temporary hp on hit every 6 seconds when at Weapon Bond 150+ and just make it vampirism with no Weapon Bond. honestly, it should be maybe Tier 3 so other barb prestiges can get it. Vampirism would be a huge boost for barbs. I wouldn't waste the AP on increasing DR. another 4 is the same as 7. in epics its the same as 0. metalline weapon bond is useless. I don't like weapon bond in general anyways. the cool down is way too long.
    #MakeDDOGreatAgain

    You are the one choosing not to play alts.

    Casual player now investing way less than I used to into the game, playing 1-3 months at a time and still want nothing to do with Reaper. #improvepuggrouping#alldifficultiesmatter

  8. #8
    Community Member Teh_Ghoul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HatsuharuZ View Post
    Bard Warchanter vs. Wiz/Sorc Eldritch Knight.

    Both get an enhancement that lets them equip and use medium armor. However, the EK enhancement is a tier 4 enhancement, while the bard version is tier 5. Mainly, this means that Wizards and Sorcerers do not have to sacrifice access to tier 5 abilities in other trees in order to get access to medium armor, while Bards do. Also, EK gives out ASF reduction from shields, as well. A mitigating factor is that Bards do not suffer ASF in medium armor after purchasing this enhancement, while players not using elves, half-elves or drow have to wait unti level 12 to gain the same -ASF% benefit from EK. Oh, wait, that isn't much of a mitigating factor, is it? After all, Armorer, the fifth-tier bard enhancement I've described, cannot be taken until lvl 12. Huh. So why is the Bard version of this enhancement on tier 5? Then there are the Martial Weapon Proficiency feats in both trees. The Bard version is on Tier 5 (remember how tier 5 enhancements are different from others?) while the Eldritch Knight version is on tier 2.
    non-issue you should be splashing 2 rogue or 2 monk for evasion and in only light armor or robes
    Ranger Tempest vs. Monk Ninja Spy.

    Both have a fifth tier ability which gives the user a large doublestrike boost for a short amount of time. The ranger's "A Thousand Cuts" gives 90% doublestrike chance for six seconds at a cost of 6 AP, and has a cooldown of 2 minutes. The monk's "Shadow Double" gives 100% doublestrike for six seconds, costs 2 AP and 30 Ki to activate, but only has a 30 second cooldown. Wow. Monks get the best toys, don't they?
    tempest sucks, and monks are p2w any questions?
    Ranger Deepwood Stalker vs. every other tree with an SLA in it.

    DWS has a second tier ability called "Empathic Healing". This allows the user to use up an Animal Empathy charge in order to use Lesser Vigor as an SLA. The second rank of this enhancement lets the user cast a Mass Lesser Vigor effect. Now Sorcerers, Wizards, Druids, Clerics and Favored Souls get at least one SLA in their enhancement trees, and all of them have offensive options as SLAs. My own current Ranger character (lvl 14) gets 6 uses of Empathic Healing (animal empathy) per rest. My Druid can cast her SLAs, all them, as long as she has spell points. Clearly, "Empathic Healing" is rather weak. Now, one could argue that the mass version of the ability is very powerful. It is, but it has limited uses, and more importantly, no one expects or needs a ranger to use mass heals on the party. I don't mind tosses a heal if another party member needs it, but no one has ever asked me to heal them when I'm playing my ranger. My Druid? My FvS? Of course! But not my ranger. A mass heal is nice, but a ranger would be better served with single-target, higher tier Vigor spells.
    free (nearly) healing is free.


    Barbarians

    The main problem with Barbarians, as I see it, are that they haven't gained additional durability to cope with increases in incoming damage from mobs. They only have access to medium armor, and thus less PRR, and they gain DR 7/- at level 20. This really isn't enough at level cap, not for a class that only relies on potions and the kindness of other players to heal them in the middle of combat. Currently, there are lots of Wand and Scroll enhancements that increase the efficacy of scrolls and wands. Why not give Barbarians something similar, except that it applies to healing potions?

    Concerning Frenzied Berserker... there is a limit to how many debuffs they can apply to themselves before they become too squishy to participate in melee combat. Someone who uses the Frenzied Berserker tree can theoretically debuff themselves with -58 AC and -20 PRR. Barbarians are supposed to have the ability to significantly reduce the amount of damage they take per hit in return for their lack of AC. I really hope that someone at Turbine will realize that Storm's Eye is an awful capstone and replace it with something that helps or heals the user instead of half-killing them. In order to get +25 damage from the capstone, the user has to take 100 damage, then take 25d20 damage over the course of 150 seconds and stay over 50% HP the entire time, if I'm reading it right. Oh, and don't forget the -25 penalties to to-hit and AC!

    Ravager is a nice tree, overall. However, the two enhancements "Demoralizing Success" and "Fear Me!" all have fixed DCs, 20 and 13 respectively. How does anyone expect those abilities to stick at higher levels? With those DCs, they'll only be effecive 5% of the time. Then there is the "Fury" mechanic. Stacks of "Fury" do not stack with items that have the "Deadly" ability on them. Eventually, this mechanic becomes useless since the "Deadly" items let me get the same benefit as "Fury", but I'll have it on *all the time!*

    I only have a few problems with Occult Slayer. Firstly, the 4 DR-improving enhancements are spit in the bucket compared to the damage barbarians take at later levels. Secondly, the word "Vampiric" usually implies that someone is gaining actual health, not temporary health. Thirdly, 5% chance to nullify *force* spells is not very useful when fire/acid/cold/electric spells are more common. Finally, "Metalline Bond" could use some improvement. Lacking the proper material DR for an enemy means that I'm less likely to damage an enemy, thus slowing the rate at which I raise the weapon bond. If I already have a weapon that lets me bypass the DR of the enemies I'm fighting, then I don't need this at all.
    barbs are worthless lately, play any other class. If you are going completionist just pick enough barb levels to get the pl.
    Fighters

    Fighters have their own problems. They have only two enhancement trees, the fighter feat list hasn't gotten anything new added it ever, and despite the release of the Purple Dragon Knight Iconic, they didn't give out a PDK fighter enhancement tree. Then there is "Shattering Strike" in the Kensai tree, which is modified by the user's *wisdom* modifier. I know that Kensai is supposed to have synergy with the Monk class, but putting an ability that only a Monk could use effectively in a Fighter tree is ridiculous (Unless it's really powerful, like One With the Blade).

    The other tree fighters here, Stalwart Defender, has some very odd problems. A player could gain access to all of the enhancements that modify the Stalwart Defense defensive stance. However, you can't activate the stance until fighter level 6. More strange, however, is the number of enhancements that involve attacking with a shield. Equip a shield for the defensive and doublestrike bonuses? Sure! Actually attack with a shield? Not a very useful technique. First off, it is ALOT easier to find a DR-breaking or otherwise useful weapon than it is to find an offensively useful shield. Secondly, the doublestrike bonuses one gets from having the proper feats and using a shield are lost when one attacks with a shield, since that doublestrike bonus specifically applies to the *mainhand* weapon.
    Fighters are probably in the best shape of any melee due to one with the blade. Fighters don't have any issues.
    Bards

    Bards. Ah yes, they can be considered a melee class, since they have two enhancement trees, one being Spellsinger (songs and magic), and the other being Warchanter (melee combat). The elves' AA tree makes them a ranged class, as well. They really need a third tree, or at least some new damage-dealing spells, since right now they have Spellcraft as a class skill, but no spells that are affected by Spellcraft. Yet for some reason they have plenty of healing spells but no Heal as a class skill.

    I can't help but wonder if the guy who did these enhancements was either an intern or just tired from staring at all the black and purple of the Shadowfell. The main problems of the Warchanter tree come from short-terms buffs, "Boast", and "Gathering Cold". Boast gives for the cost of a song a set amount of temp HP and +1[W] which lasts as long as the temp HP does. Now, since mobs do more damage as one gets into higher level content, how long do you think that +1[W] is going to last? Not very long, I'd say. And then there is "Gathering Cold". Basically, one gains 1 AC and 1 cold resistance whenever one is hit by cold damage. But not always. Spending 3 AP on this enhancement lets one gain a stack of +1 AC and +1 cold res 50% of the time, and only for 12 seconds. Okay, this mechanic is inconsistent, since it depends on what kind of damage the *enemy* is attacking the player with. This mechanic really needs to be replaced with something else. Anything else. Personally, I'm fond of the Freezing Ice ability on the Frozen Tunic.

    Not much to say about Spellsinger, except that Bards currently have no use for Spellcraft bonuses, and "Reviving Verse" would be alot more useful if there were Energy Drain effects that actually had DCs. Oh, and I'm not sure why Wail of the Banshee is part of the Spellsinger capstone. Bards would get alot more milage from Implosion or Wierd (although Wierd doesn't exist in DDO, like most illusion spells). Lastly, if I take the "Haunted" enhancement, then do I really need "Enthrallment"?

    Edit: Oh f***, I forgot to mention "Flicker". Taking this enhancement gives you a 5% chance of turning invisible for up to 6 seconds. when damaged. But guess what? If you are in melee and taking aggro, then turning invisible has no effect! If you're right in front of a mob, it can see you whether you are under stealth or invisible, if I'm reading the notes correctly. This ability would actually have an effect if the 'invisibility' portion of this enhancement was changed to '20% incorporeal miss chance', then it would be worth taking.
    Warchanters are stronger than they have been in a long time right now. You just never make a melee anything pure. Go 17 ish bard, 2 fighter, 1 fvs, don't completely dump cha. You'll have almost barbarian levels of strength fully buffed and all your spells and the ability to self heal.
    Rangers

    One of the wierd things I've noticed is how opportunities to gain spellpower are arranged. For Rangers, they can only get spellpower by taking specific enhancements in the Deepwood Stalker tree. Both Wizards and Sorcerers can get some amount of universal spellpower in any of their trees, although the amount varies. Very, very odd. All a Ranger has is buffs and healing spells, and all Rangers need positive energy spellpower equally. Very unfair that we *have* to take points in a certain tree to get something very important to our survival.

    Arcane Archer is okay. Lots of versatility, as befits a tree that is also a racial tree, but there is no earth-shattering kaboom in this tree. "Inferno Shot", despite it's cool name, is rather boring. "Terror Arrows" and "Paralyzing Arrows" have fixed DCs. "Soul Magic" and "Moonbow" are interesting, since they give you small amounts of reliable temp sp procs.

    Deepwood Stalker is useful, whether you go ranged or melee as a Ranger. Not much to say about this one, since I've already made my feelings about the availability of positive energy spellpower for rangers, and the godawful "Empathic Healing", abundantly clear.

    Tempest has a few small problems. First, "Critical Accuracy" and "Critical Damage" really should be combined into one enhancement. They aren't very useful by themselves. Secondly, I'm not fond of any effect that has a shorter duration than an action boost but has a longer cooldown. I'm looking at you, tier 4 and 5 enhancements.
    Tempest sucks, don't know about dws, aa is very powerful. Para arrows work great till epic. At epic who cares, twist pin, click adrenaline, many shot, slaying arrows = dead.
    Paladins

    Paladins suffer from the same spellpower problem that Rangers do. It looks like the dev in charge of the pallie trees tried to put all of the defensive and support functions into Sacred Defender (why not call if Defender of Siberys?), and the offensive ones in KotC. Problem being, pallies of any stripe need positive energy spellpower. And with two trees, the only choices I make when choosing paladin enhancements is how much offense/defense to I want. It's kind of boring.

    Sacred Defender (was someone trying to be PC? lol) is a bit better than Stalwart Defender. For one thing, there aren't any silly shield bash proc enhancements. For another, "Swift Defense" negates the movement penalty at tier 4. "Harbored By Light" at tier 5 makes shield-blocking an offensive attack. It still suffers from the 'no-access-to-the-defensive-stance-itis' problem that SD does.

    Knight of the Chalice suffers from being a bit too focused. The core abilities force one to choose between bonuses to damage and saves vs. undead or evil outsiders. Does anyone know how many evil undead outsiders there are in this game? None that I know of. No reason to make players choose between the two. "Divine Light" is nice, but it does a set amount of damage, which makes it less useful as one levels up. Then there is "Passion", in which one *only* gains temp HP when using "Divine Sacrifice". Meh. The worst offender is "Divine Retribution", which uses up a smite, but only has a % chance to activate the DC-based insta-kill effect until you put 3 AP into it.
    Paladins are awful and should only be used in 2 level splashes other than getting a pl.

  9. #9
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HatsuharuZ View Post
    Wow. Monks get the best toys, don't they?
    DDO is all about the Pay2win monks. Has been for years. We got some more Pay2Win piled on lately with Bladeforged as well.

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    Community Member Teh_Ghoul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    DDO is all about the Pay2win monks. Has been for years. We got some more Pay2Win piled on lately with Bladeforged as well.
    Most BF suck 45% hamp with no items and not enough sp to recon themselves thru a quest. They're just a new way to be a soul stone.

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    Ranger Tempest vs. Monk Ninja Spy.

    Both have a fifth tier ability which gives the user a large doublestrike boost for a short amount of time. The ranger's "A Thousand Cuts" gives 90% doublestrike chance for six seconds at a cost of 6 AP, and has a cooldown of 2 minutes. The monk's "Shadow Double" gives 100% doublestrike for six seconds, costs 2 AP and 30 Ki to activate, but only has a 30 second cooldown. Wow. Monks get the best toys, don't they?
    You can't just pick out and compare two abilities directly to each other and say one class has it worse than the other; that completely disregards the rest of the tree and the class, which is very important. Evasive Dance is a very powerful ability in the Tempest tree, for example, and Ninja Spy core abilities don't add as much damage as the Tempest cores (well, it would help if the Tempest capstone didn't suck/wasn't broken). But damage isn't all people care about, of course. Some people may like the various clicky attacks in Tempest and not being forced into certain items and alignments in order to play a Monk to full effectiveness. Does Monk need a nerf? Probably, but they've almost always needed a nerf, so that's not something new to the enhancements.

    DWS has a second tier ability called "Empathic Healing".
    Empathetic Healing, while generally weak, is available from level 2. This is something that a lot of people forget: Not every enhancement has been made with endgame in mind. Some enhancements are there simply to be very effective at low levels and then slowly become less useful, generally because of flat damage/healing. Look at Reaving Roar, for example. I remember reading complains that it got nerfed heavily when it had its damage reduce. Know what else happened when they reduced the damage? They lowered the minimum level you could take it at from 9 (IIRC) to 3. Reaving Roar was OP enough as it was before, but dropping the minimum level to 4 or less (which is the only option other than making it a level 12 T5 or level 6 or 12 core) would make Druids laughably broken from level 3 to level ~12.

    Then there are the "Wand Heightening" and "Wand and Scroll Mastery" enhancements. Bards get these as two separate enhancements, while Clerics and Druids get both of them combined into one enhancement, and a few other classes get the WaSM part, but not the WH portion. Very inconsistent.
    Some classes get Heavy Armor Proficiency while others don't even get Light. Would you consider that inconsistent as well?

    I wouldn't be surprised if they split up the Bard enhancements like that because people complained early on about not having anything good to take in the low tiers of the SS tree. Naturally, Turbine just made an existing enhancement cost more instead of making the enhancements more useful to everybody.

    The other tree fighters here, Stalwart Defender, has some very odd problems. A player could gain access to all of the enhancements that modify the Stalwart Defense defensive stance. However, you can't activate the stance until fighter level 6. More strange, however, is the number of enhancements that involve attacking with a shield. Equip a shield for the defensive and doublestrike bonuses? Sure! Actually attack with a shield? Not a very useful technique. First off, it is ALOT easier to find a DR-breaking or otherwise useful weapon than it is to find an offensively useful shield. Secondly, the doublestrike bonuses one gets from having the proper feats and using a shield are lost when one attacks with a shield, since that doublestrike bonus specifically applies to the *mainhand* weapon.
    The problem with the Stalwart Defender tree is that things that too many enhancements buff the stance, such that you can't put all of them in places where you can only take them when you have the stance. You could make them require the stance in order to take them, but then you force people to take enhancements they may not want (because only a few enhancements don't require the stance in each tier) in order to unlock the stance and then start to take the stance buffs when they've already spent 11 AP in the tree. They'll probably need to make the stance a T1 ability to really fix this.

    Secondly, regarding shields: Part of the problem is a lack of offensive shields. Getting damage from a shield has never been viable, so there's almost nothing to support it in terms of items, feats, etc. More importantly, though, where are the enhancements you claim involve attacking with a shield in the SD tree? Overbalance requires a shield hit, but is extremely good IIRC. Unless things are different in-game than on DDOWiki, that's all that requires a shield attack; but even that doesn't require you to block and then attack to do a shield bash, as there are plenty of ways to get shield attacks added to your normal attack chain.

    I can't help but wonder if the guy who did these enhancements was either an intern or just tired from staring at all the black and purple of the Shadowfell. The main problems of the Warchanter tree come from short-terms buffs, "Boast", and "Gathering Cold". Boast gives for the cost of a song a set amount of temp HP and +1[W] which lasts as long as the temp HP does. Now, since mobs do more damage as one gets into higher level content, how long do you think that +1[W] is going to last? Not very long, I'd say. And then there is "Gathering Cold". Basically, one gains 1 AC and 1 cold resistance whenever one is hit by cold damage. But not always. Spending 3 AP on this enhancement lets one gain a stack of +1 AC and +1 cold res 50% of the time, and only for 12 seconds. Okay, this mechanic is inconsistent, since it depends on what kind of damage the *enemy* is attacking the player with. This mechanic really needs to be replaced with something else. Anything else. Personally, I'm fond of the Freezing Ice ability on the Frozen Tunic.
    Regarding Boast, again, available at level 2. Plus it's 1 AP for +1[W] damage to target(s) so long as you can avoid being hit, which would keep the damage up. Obviously you're not going to cast it on a tank (unless you suddenly need more threat!), but if you're beating down something that can't fight back, or is focused on somebody else, or if you have an extra song before a boss fight... again, it's 1 AP for +1[W] damage if you can keep from taking damage, and at low levels 30 extra HP can be very helpful in many situations. The only thing that needs to be changed is the threat increase, which doesn't fit mechanically with the +1[W] damage. Not everything's going to be useful to everybody.

    I agree with you that there are plenty of changes that should be made, but many of the things you point out don't need to changed like you think they do.

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    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Ghoul View Post
    Most BF suck 45% hamp with no items and not enough sp to recon themselves thru a quest. They're just a new way to be a soul stone.
    Wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Wrong.
    Wrong on your server, Thelanis has it's own brand of special lately.

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    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Ghoul View Post
    Wrong on your server, Thelanis has it's own brand of special lately.
    Special people will always be special. BF is a big bucket of Pay2Win awesomeness because in the hands of an intelligent player it's some over-powered ubberness.

    The fact that some tards manage to make bad monks and bladforged doesn't remove any of their pay2win OPness.

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    Community Member FlaviusMaximus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Ghoul View Post
    Wrong..
    Awww, there's two of you. That's adorable.

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    Community Member Teh_Ghoul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaviusMaximus View Post
    Awww, there's two of you. That's adorable.
    Wrong

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    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaviusMaximus View Post
    Awww, there's two of you. That's adorable.
    I'm not sharing a cup with him.

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    The enhancement pass added so much power, it has become game breaking. I definitely do not think they need better. More... sure, I guess there could be more options. We are now at the point where melee is as powerful as they can be without the game breaking under the weight of every zerging noob. They are still weaker than casters, but that is due to things that will never be fixed (i.e. killing from afar).

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    Community Member AbyssalMage's Avatar
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    Melees don't need more enhancements. Not even sure they need better enhancements. Now if you are arguing that they need better T4/T5 so staying pure or near pure would be desirable you would have my ear. But otherwise I find to many fallacy's with your argument to even support it as written.

    p.s. It's a good rough draft but requires some serious revisions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Ghoul View Post
    non-issue you should be splashing 2 rogue or 2 monk for evasion and in only light armor or robes

    tempest sucks, and monks are p2w any questions?

    free (nearly) healing is free.



    barbs are worthless lately, play any other class. If you are going completionist just pick enough barb levels to get the pl.

    Fighters are probably in the best shape of any melee due to one with the blade. Fighters don't have any issues.

    Warchanters are stronger than they have been in a long time right now. You just never make a melee anything pure. Go 17 ish bard, 2 fighter, 1 fvs, don't completely dump cha. You'll have almost barbarian levels of strength fully buffed and all your spells and the ability to self heal.

    Tempest sucks, don't know about dws, aa is very powerful. Para arrows work great till epic. At epic who cares, twist pin, click adrenaline, many shot, slaying arrows = dead.

    Paladins are awful and should only be used in 2 level splashes other than getting a pl.
    I think you're missing the point.

    This is how I'm reading your response -

    OP: Melees need help!

    You: No no, they're fine as long as you splash or don't play them at all!


    Your response doesn't address the problem at hand.


    My 2 cents -

    Traditional melees should be worth playing. Builds like 18 barb/ 2 fighter, 20 ranger tempest, 18 bard/ 2 fighter, 20 bard warchanter, ect. should be viable. This only makes sense from a lore perspective if nothing else. You shouldn't have to take monk levels or divine levels to make an awesome fighter, barb or tempest ranger. And suggesting they are fine as long as you don't play them makes no sense since it suggests the problem will be solved by not solving it.

    Every melee shouldn't have to be completely self-sufficient and self-sufficiency should come at the cost of less DPS. Right now it doesn't. We need some better DPS boosting capstones and high tier enhancements to the mentioned classes. Pure builds are way underpowered right now and the cons for not splashing are way bigger than the pros. The fact is the capstones for these classes as they exist currently are so weak that there is no point in playing a melee in the traditional sense. This needs to change.

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