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  1. #101
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    I'm glad you like the build. I see this is your first post so, welcome.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rigge View Post
    Hey, popping in to add to OP's otherwise amazing build and detailed, constructed post. For those leveling this throughout Heroic Levels, and interested in staying centered, one option, as the OP has stated, is to always go Short Swords - but two very important things. First off, Short Swords are considered as light weapons, believe it or not. Secondly, instead of waiting till level 15, as soon as 11 AP is available, picking up Tempest (Dex to hit with light weapons, redundant as Ninja Spy's 1st Core, "Basic Ninja Training", allows you to use Dex to hit with all pierce and slashing weapons, centered or not), but more importantly, unlocking Graceful Death - allowing you to use Dex to damage for light weapons (if you want to stay centered, this means Kamas and Short Swords, though only Short Swords benefit from Improved Critical Piercing).
    Hmmm, you're right. I can't believe I missed graceful death as an option of getting dex to damage. Good catch. Although str and dex are so close together throughout heroics that it doesn't matter too much which one you use. But this option is worth mentioning for those who want to stay centerd and use dex for damage. I'll add this into the OP.

    Two disadvantages worth mentioning about this option, however. The first is that rapiers are definitely ahead of shortswords. The second, and more important, is that you only have acces to the basic monk stances until level 18 (monk level 6) when you get both adept of forms and master of forms. So the benefit of staying centered is very minimal and I'm not sure that it outweighs the higher dps of rapier especially if you're investing in the full elf weapon line including the 3% doublestrike. For levels 18-20, though, staying centered might be better than using rapiers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rigge View Post
    Instead of investing in the Elves' Aerenal line, you could instead spend your time leveling throughout Heroics by investing in the Tempest's Whirling Blades line to much the same effect, and probably is more leveling friendly - allows you two weapon categories instead of restricting you to one whilst you level through the content (though I admit, you'll rarely find a Kama so good it's worth passing up Imp Crit Piercing w/ Short Swords for). The loss is, of course, Skill (+3% Doublestrike, +3% Doubleshot, +3% Dodge and +3% bypass Dodge), as well as the bonuses to Longbow - however, you don't pick up Zen Archery until Level 18 if you're following the build, and as this is reply is for those interested in staying centered...

    You can reset the entire Tempest tree and invest points into Kensai to grab One With The Blade at Fighter Level 8 (Character Level 20 if you're following the build posted), pick up a decent pair of Rapiers, and invest the remainder into the Aerenal line and pick up Skill & Grace at the end.
    I do recommend getting the displacement mark as soon as possible. It adds a great deal to your survivability. But I did put most of my points into tempest while leveling. The best stuff in kensai doesn't come until fighter level 8 (build level 20) anyway, and tempest offers some nice goodies along the way. So you are right about this as well.
    White Feather Sniper: dps focused, 62DC paralyzing arrows human ranged ranger/The Divine Cuisinart: human tempest in divine crusader/Hassan's Assassin: 81DC halfling assassin/The Count of Monte Cristo: human swashbuckler/Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer
    Abandoned builds: Totally Bass Ackwards/Santa's Little Slayer

  2. #102
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    Thank you for the warm welcome. Indeed, I completely agree that on the basis of weapons, Rapiers are definitely superior as you're picking up Improved Critical: Piercing as early as level 9, and the Displacement Dragonmark is a definitely worth it; a no-brainer, as you based half of your race selection around this (and the Aerenal Weapon Training line).

    The only main benefits I can think of to stay centered are few - first off, a non-game mechanics related benefit, staying centered allows you to get used to stances, Ki strikes & finishers (I'm not sure if Fists of Iron work with weapons, have yet to test it out - would be great to include that in the rotation of Earth-Earth-Earth finisher), so it would probably feel a significantly less deal awkward for you if you've never played Monk extensively, like myself, when you suddenly find yourself with all of these new options at level 20.

    Mechanics-wise, having the buffs might also be handy, and you get to play around with them 5 levels earlier - for both group play and solo play - particularly Aligning the Heavens and Grasp the Earth Dragon. Though Rapiers are probably still far ahead, Ki strikes and stances will help pad the damage difference slightly, particularly if Fists of Iron is compatible with weapons. That, and staying centered give you all the little monk goodies, being minor bumps in AC (compensated if you wear armor and run uncentered, but if you're going to be running DEX, anything above Light Leather Armor might actually result in a net loss of total AC, considering the fact you'll be stacking DEX), movement speed (Fast Movement), Slow Fall, minor gain in BAB, and if you pick it up, Sting of the Ninja.

    There's also the minor inconvenience that you're leaving a whole resource (Ki) untapped, and though from a min/max perspective, might be worth leaving it alone 'till Level 20, I'm a bit of a neat (i.e OCD) freak and will just fill abnormally wrong for me to just ditch it entirely for the sake of optimized play. The fact that I will also constantly have an exclamation mark above my portrait also played a significant part in my suggestion of running centered. As you can see, I make these suggestions as a personal opinion, and for more player comfort than high quality optimized play style / game mechanics benefits, so readers might want to keep this in mind ^^.

    EDIT: Staying centered also grant you a small (4%) dodge bonus in addition to slightly improved BAB from Flurry of Blows.
    Last edited by Rigge; 04-17-2014 at 10:20 PM.

  3. #103
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rigge View Post
    The only main benefits I can think of to stay centered are few - first off, a non-game mechanics related benefit, staying centered allows you to get used to stances, Ki strikes & finishers (I'm not sure if Fists of Iron work with weapons, have yet to test it out - would be great to include that in the rotation of Earth-Earth-Earth finisher), so it would probably feel a significantly less deal awkward for you if you've never played Monk extensively, like myself, when you suddenly find yourself with all of these new options at level 20.
    Fists of iron does work with weapons. And you are absolutely correct about the awkward shift in gameplay. I had not played the monk class extensively and gaining an excessive amount of clicky abilities at level 20 was overwhelming and took a while to get used to. I'm sure this isn't much of an issue for someone experienced with monks but it is for someone who is not experienced with them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rigge View Post
    There's also the minor inconvenience that you're leaving a whole resource (Ki) untapped, and though from a min/max perspective, might be worth leaving it alone 'till Level 20, I'm a bit of a neat (i.e OCD) freak and will just fill abnormally wrong for me to just ditch it entirely for the sake of optimized play. The fact that I will also constantly have an exclamation mark above my portrait also played a significant part in my suggestion of running centered. As you can see, I make these suggestions as a personal opinion, and for more player comfort than high quality optimized play style / game mechanics benefits, so readers might want to keep this in mind ^^.
    LOL, I can sympathize with this, though my OCD is more concerned with optimization.

    Going centered or not are both valid options, which is why I included the possibilities in the OP. You can get away with a lot in heroics.
    White Feather Sniper: dps focused, 62DC paralyzing arrows human ranged ranger/The Divine Cuisinart: human tempest in divine crusader/Hassan's Assassin: 81DC halfling assassin/The Count of Monte Cristo: human swashbuckler/Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer
    Abandoned builds: Totally Bass Ackwards/Santa's Little Slayer

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    At level 28 now and rocking EE content. Still haven't run in dreadnaught. The on-demand, insane burst damage of furyshot is hard to give up (furyshot is just begging for a nerf).

    Forgot to mention in my last post, sting of the ninja works great on this build. On anything with a lot of hp (i.e. bosses) you will build up a stack of 20 very quickly. It seems to proc more than once every 3 seconds. I see poison damage every other hit or so and I know I'm hitting more than twice in 3 seconds.

    Heal scrolls augment cocoon fairly well. I have everything listed in the OP to boost my UMD and for some reason I end up with one less than what I calculated. I can't figure out why.

    I also noticed that I end up with 5 more hp than what is calculated in the OP. I noticed this on my rogue also and I suspect that improvd heroic durability applies 4 times instead of the 3 it states in the description. That's my best guess anyway.

    My reflex save wasn't high enough to survive the onslaught of ice elementals during the endfight of A Break in the Ice. So it has its limits for sure, but this was the first time it really failed me.
    Hi.
    I did your assassin build and worked very well, thx.

    Can you help with this build: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...lease-critique ?

    Thx again.

  5. #105
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doutrinador View Post
    Hi.
    I did your assassin build and worked very well, thx.

    Can you help with this build: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...lease-critique ?

    Thx again.
    I replied in the thread, hope it helps.
    White Feather Sniper: dps focused, 62DC paralyzing arrows human ranged ranger/The Divine Cuisinart: human tempest in divine crusader/Hassan's Assassin: 81DC halfling assassin/The Count of Monte Cristo: human swashbuckler/Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer
    Abandoned builds: Totally Bass Ackwards/Santa's Little Slayer

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    I replied in the thread, hope it helps.
    thx, helped a lot.

  7. #107
    Community Member Maelodic's Avatar
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    Hey there C!

    You've been a great help to a lot of people on the forums, myself included. I'm planning a 20 Ranger build with similar concepts in mind- DEX Based Displacement dragonmarked Elf with Rapiers and DEX to damage on both TWF and Longbows. It's a bit different as a build- but the things I have to ask about have to do with the playstyle and I'd like your input on them if at all possible.

    (I may ask your advice/workshopping on the build I'm working on later, sorry)

    I was wondering if I could ask about your experience in this particularly as you've had a lot with this build-

    -How important is overwhelming critical to this build?
    There are a lot of stat points used and wasted specifically and only for Overwhelming Critical. Considering the trade offs, do you think that stat points could be used elsewhere?

    -What do you find yourself using UMD for?
    I know heal scrolls- as a Ranger I won't really need those at all as my heals will hit for 200-300 non-crit and I'm not too worried. Are you using them for anything else other than convenience stuff like teleport?
    ~Sarlona~ - Proud Member of The Unrepentant
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    Praise Dog, and Maelodic, his prophet.

  8. #108
    Community Member Garund's Avatar
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    Can't answer you about the overwhelming critical, but on the UMD, it's a huge benefit to be able to scroll cast, GH, Resurection, Restoration, Teleport scrolls; stoneskin wands, etc. Helps a ton when solo'ing and running with guildies.

  9. #109
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maelodic View Post
    Hey there C!

    You've been a great help to a lot of people on the forums, myself included. I'm planning a 20 Ranger build with similar concepts in mind- DEX Based Displacement dragonmarked Elf with Rapiers and DEX to damage on both TWF and Longbows. It's a bit different as a build- but the things I have to ask about have to do with the playstyle and I'd like your input on them if at all possible.

    (I may ask your advice/workshopping on the build I'm working on later, sorry)
    Thank you. I'll be glad to offer any help I can on the build you're planning, with the caveat that I haven't played a pure ranger to cap so my knowledge is limited.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maelodic View Post
    I was wondering if I could ask about your experience in this particularly as you've had a lot with this build-

    -How important is overwhelming critical to this build?
    There are a lot of stat points used and wasted specifically and only for Overwhelming Critical. Considering the trade offs, do you think that stat points could be used elsewhere?
    This build isn't really hurting for feats, so I don't see a reason not to take it. The pre-req feats are actually useful. Cleave and great cleave are great for dealing with multiple mobs (as well as charging blitz if you run in dreadnaught). On EE I can stand in a crowd and still survive because of the high damage avoidance, so I get good use out of cleave/great cleave.

    If you didn't have the tomes and would need to invest more heavily in str, or if you didn't have the feats to spare, then I could see an argument for dropping it. Since you're building a pure ranger, there are a lot of different feat options depending on how heavily you want to focus on melee, ranged, or some combination of them, as well as defensive feats (dragonmark, empower heal or maximize, quicken, dodge, etc.). So depending on what your priorities are with the build, it may make sense to drop overwhelming crit, or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maelodic View Post
    -What do you find yourself using UMD for?
    I know heal scrolls- as a Ranger I won't really need those at all as my heals will hit for 200-300 non-crit and I'm not too worried. Are you using them for anything else other than convenience stuff like teleport?
    As Garund pointed out, UMD has a lot of utility beyond heal scrolls. It adds a great deal of self-sufficiency and versatility -- self-buffing with GH and fire shield, dealing with neg levels with restoration scrolls, raising others with raise dead and resurrection scrolls, break enchantment to get rid of enemy dancing balls and other annoying AoE effects, not to mention the incredible convenience of teleport (it's addicting). Go to the Portable Hole and the House J teleport location (don't remember what it's called, but it offers all the divine scrolls) and check out the list of arcane and divine scrolls with the realization that they are all available to you thanks to UMD, then stock up on anything that seems useful.

    I will say that my other main builds are an artificer and a rogue, both of which get UMD as a class skill. So I am used to having a UMD in the 50s, which basically means that you don't ever have to worry about not being able to use UMD regardless of how many neg levels or death penalties you have. On this build, however, I just barely get enough for scroll healing, which means a few death penalties and scrolls cease to be a viable option. I could get a bit more with gear swaps, but swapping gear to use scrolls to try and get yourself and/or the group back up after its already hit the fan just doesn't work very well.

    I hope that helps.
    White Feather Sniper: dps focused, 62DC paralyzing arrows human ranged ranger/The Divine Cuisinart: human tempest in divine crusader/Hassan's Assassin: 81DC halfling assassin/The Count of Monte Cristo: human swashbuckler/Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer
    Abandoned builds: Totally Bass Ackwards/Santa's Little Slayer

  10. #110
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
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    have you looked much at the new ED, divine crusader, yet?

    I've been running in it on my assassin and it does nice damage, although it trashes my DC.

    I'd be interested to hear how you think it compares to running in fury.
    /sigh

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    Quote Originally Posted by redoubt View Post
    have you looked much at the new ED, divine crusader, yet?

    I've been running in it on my assassin and it does nice damage, although it trashes my DC.

    I'd be interested to hear how you think it compares to running in fury.
    I'm leveling through it right now in fact. I haven't gotten celestial champion yet, which is the real dps boost. The self healing is fantastic. Sacred ground is awesome. Due to the damage avoidance on this build, I didn't need much healing anyway. With sacred ground I can stand in a crowd as long as I want and the heal over time takes care of the few hits I do take. I'm looking forward to the cleave attack in tier six.

    Without endless fury though, manyshot is totally weak. That's the main downside to divine crusader.
    White Feather Sniper: dps focused, 62DC paralyzing arrows human ranged ranger/The Divine Cuisinart: human tempest in divine crusader/Hassan's Assassin: 81DC halfling assassin/The Count of Monte Cristo: human swashbuckler/Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer
    Abandoned builds: Totally Bass Ackwards/Santa's Little Slayer

  12. #112
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    I'm leveling through it right now in fact. I haven't gotten celestial champion yet, which is the real dps boost. The self healing is fantastic. Sacred ground is awesome. Due to the damage avoidance on this build, I didn't need much healing anyway. With sacred ground I can stand in a crowd as long as I want and the heal over time takes care of the few hits I do take. I'm looking forward to the cleave attack in tier six.

    Without endless fury though, manyshot is totally weak. That's the main downside to divine crusader.
    I've leveled crusader up on my assassin to fill in karma in the divine sphere. The crit range mod and damage boost is awesome. I also really enjoy the level 5 zeal boost. At this point, despite being int based, I've mostly skipped bothering to assassinate and I'm just dps'ing stuff down.

    This got me thinking again on a rapier build, but using Crusader. I have a few questions for you as the Santa build is very similar to what I was thinking.

    1. Please refresh my memory on what make the rapier (i.e. balizarde) superior to say a dagger like agony. Before the Crusader bonus, I'm already getting 15-20x3 crit range on a 2.5(2d4). This is comparable to 15-20x3 on balizarde. Both weapons would boost to 13-20x3 with Crusader. Going 8 fighter and centered would add the same 1.5w to both, but you lose +1 to crit multiplier. Balaizarde starts with x3 so it would be better there, but almost all other rapiers are only x2. This means that knife specialization results in a superior crit profile.

    2. Can you elaborate on how the centered portion of fighter/monk works in? I know you can pick up 1.5w from GMoF if you are centered. Is this what makes the centered kensai superior to a knife spec in terms of damage output? I'll admit to not understanding how the monk stances and feats work in and stack.

    3. The two main options seem to be, 8 fighter/6monk/6ranger OR 8fighter/6monk/6rogue. I enjoy having trap skills and most of my builds have them. Going with 6 ranger adds manyshot and I have a good selection of bows and 3xranger past lives; so this is a nice damage option. I had even though about 8fighter/6rogue/6ranger to get ranged attack and traps skills, but then I'm not sure its worth the 8 fighter if not adding monk. (This might be where you would stick to a knife spec build, but add ranged damage...)
    /sigh

  13. #113
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redoubt View Post
    1. Please refresh my memory on what make the rapier (i.e. balizarde) superior to say a dagger like agony. Before the Crusader bonus, I'm already getting 15-20x3 crit range on a 2.5(2d4). This is comparable to 15-20x3 on balizarde. Both weapons would boost to 13-20x3 with Crusader. Going 8 fighter and centered would add the same 1.5w to both, but you lose +1 to crit multiplier. Balaizarde starts with x3 so it would be better there, but almost all other rapiers are only x2. This means that knife specialization results in a superior crit profile.
    Agony is better only with knife specialization because, as you pointed out, it starts with higher base damage and ends up with the same crit profile. For a build without knife specialization, however, Balizarde is better than Agony. Even with the swashbuckling stance Balizarde is still better than Agony since Balizarde ends up with 15-20x4 crit profile while Agony ends up with 15-20x3.

    Quote Originally Posted by redoubt View Post
    2. Can you elaborate on how the centered portion of fighter/monk works in? I know you can pick up 1.5w from GMoF if you are centered. Is this what makes the centered kensai superior to a knife spec in terms of damage output? I'll admit to not understanding how the monk stances and feats work in and stack.
    The greatest benefit of 6 monk is 25% incorp from shadow veil. That is a huge defensive advantage. The stances also add a great deal of flexibility since you can switch between them as needed - earth for defense, wind for dps, water for saves, fire for... eh, well, nothing. You also get 10% offhand attacks from shintao's deft strikes. You can also twist a dance of flowers for 1.5[W], as well as a few other good options.

    8 fighter is only to be centered with non-monk weapons. If you're not going monk, there's little point to going 8 fighter, especially if you have access to another solid tier 5 like knife specialization.

    Quote Originally Posted by redoubt View Post
    3. The two main options seem to be, 8 fighter/6monk/6ranger OR 8fighter/6monk/6rogue. I enjoy having trap skills and most of my builds have them. Going with 6 ranger adds manyshot and I have a good selection of bows and 3xranger past lives; so this is a nice damage option. I had even though about 8fighter/6rogue/6ranger to get ranged attack and traps skills, but then I'm not sure its worth the 8 fighter if not adding monk. (This might be where you would stick to a knife spec build, but add ranged damage...)
    8fighter/6monk/6ranger and 8fighter/6monk/6rogue would both be solid builds, although you wouldn't really need 6 levels of rogue if you took that split. Since you'd need tier 5 in kensai for centered weapons, you'd need at most 4 levels of rogue, though you might want extra just for the skill points since they're hard to max on a fighter who only gets 2 per level.

    If going 8fighter/6rogue/6ranger, I wouldn't bother with the 8 fighter. You could go 14rogue/6ranger and get a ton of free feats, probably enough that you could use your regular feats to build for both melee and ranged dps. Or you could go 15ranger/5rogue, still take knife specialization and get 2 level 4 spell slots from ranger as well as a 4th favored enemy. You'd have a lot of flexibility with your feats with this option since you'd get the full melee and ranged dps feats (well, most of them anyway).

    You've got some good options, so it really depends on what you want it to do.
    White Feather Sniper: dps focused, 62DC paralyzing arrows human ranged ranger/The Divine Cuisinart: human tempest in divine crusader/Hassan's Assassin: 81DC halfling assassin/The Count of Monte Cristo: human swashbuckler/Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer
    Abandoned builds: Totally Bass Ackwards/Santa's Little Slayer

  14. #114
    Community Member Nodoze's Avatar
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    Curious what would be the best variant of Santa's little helper for a 32 pointer with at most +2 tomes (looking at a reasonable end game option for newer players)?

    The main thing that sticks out to me is that, until they drop the strength requirement from Overwhelming Critical, the 23 strength requirement may be too much. Maybe it would be better to look at an alternative feat until that requirement is changed (hopefully soonTM).

    Curious also what the best options are if you don't have any Raider's boxes and don't want to grind CiTW?

    Also curious what would be recommended if you do happen to have 1 Raider's box and were limited to a CiTW weapon of your choice and something else?

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    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nodoze View Post
    Curious what would be the best variant of Santa's little helper for a 32 pointer with at most +2 tomes (looking at a reasonable end game option for newer players)?

    The main thing that sticks out to me is that, until they drop the strength requirement from Overwhelming Critical, the 23 strength requirement may be too much. Maybe it would be better to look at an alternative feat until that requirement is changed (hopefully soonTM).
    Dropping overwhelming crit is an option. With only a +2 str tome (or less), you'd have to invest most of your level ups into str to still qualify for it. While you wouldn't end up with a higher str, you would end up with a lower dex, which is your damage stat. But investing more in str and getting overwhelming crit might still come out ahead of not taking overwhelming crit and having a higher dex. I'd say either option is valid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nodoze View Post
    Curious also what the best options are if you don't have any Raider's boxes and don't want to grind CiTW?

    Also curious what would be recommended if you do happen to have 1 Raider's box and were limited to a CiTW weapon of your choice and something else?
    I really designed this build around Balizarde to try and find the greatest synergy with that weapon. There is a very noticeable increase in dps once you hit level 23 and start using them. Any other weapon choice will be far behind unfortunately (except Thunderforged but since we're talking about a first life I'll assume that's not really an option either). I know players who tried to adapt this build to other kinds of weapons and were not very content with the result. So I would really recommend trying to acquire dual Balizardes. The build really shines with them and is still a decent build without them, but dps will definitely be lacking what it could be.

    That said, there are other decent weapons out there. The main thing you want to be sure of is that they qualify for kensai light blades, although only rapiers will be able to take advantage of the elf damage enhancements. Star of Day from the Eveningstar cleric commendation turn ins are decent and are fairly easy to acquire. Greensteel is also a good option. The Cannith challenge rapier is supposedly good, but I have never used it. That's all I can think of at the moment.

    Hope that helps.
    White Feather Sniper: dps focused, 62DC paralyzing arrows human ranged ranger/The Divine Cuisinart: human tempest in divine crusader/Hassan's Assassin: 81DC halfling assassin/The Count of Monte Cristo: human swashbuckler/Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer
    Abandoned builds: Totally Bass Ackwards/Santa's Little Slayer

  16. #116
    Community Member Nodoze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    Dropping overwhelming crit is an option. ... But investing more in str and getting overwhelming crit might still come out ahead of not taking overwhelming crit and having a higher dex. I'd say either option is valid.
    ...
    Any other weapon choice will be far behind [Balizarde] unfortunately (except Thunderforged but since we're talking about a first life I'll assume that's not really an option either)... So I would really recommend trying to acquire dual Balizardes. The build really shines with them and is still a decent build without them, but dps will definitely be lacking what it could be.

    ...other decent weapons ... be sure of is that they qualify for kensai light blades... Star of Day from the Eveningstar cleric commendation turn ins are decent and are fairly easy to acquire. Greensteel is also a good option. The Cannith challenge rapier is supposedly good, but I have never used it. ... Hope that helps.
    Very helpful and thanks. I don't see why a first lifer couldn't easily at least get some Stars of Day and then two Tier1 Thunderforged Rapiers and between those be helpful in farming CitW and in the many Dragon centric raids. Even at just the easy-to-get-mats-unbound Tier1 level the Thunderforged weapons are great on Dragons at +18 with Epic Bane of Dragons & some combo of Burns/Flames/Shadows depending on the Dragon Boss. If they went full Dex based they would eventually get the tomes but by the time they do and might be looking to LR into higher Str for Overwhelming Crit they may get fortunate and the changes dropping the Str requirement will hit live by then...

    This is one of the few EE capable builds that can get Displacement on a successful melee on a first lifer without grinding greensteel. Thanks for sharing and maintaining the build as I think it is a great option for folk who want to quickly get to EE end game as a melee with no-grinding-yet-top-notch mitigation !

    Lastly, I am curious what you finally thought about the Epic Destiny: Divine Crusader (ED-DC) with this build as I never saw where you shared your thoughts on ED-DC after you capped it. I could see ED-DC as a great viable option for at least some scenarios and, unless you thought it was terribad, I respectfully recommend you update your Initial Post with your thoughts on EDP allocation and Twists for Divine Crusader for this particular build (even if folk mainly use it for farming fate points and Divine Karma).
    Last edited by Nodoze; 08-20-2014 at 08:48 PM.

  17. #117
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nodoze View Post
    I don't see why a first lifer couldn't easily at least get some Stars of Day and then two Tier1 Thunderforged Rapiers and between those be helpful in farming CitW and in the many Dragon centric raids. Even at just the easy-to-get-mats-unbound Tier1 level the Thunderforged weapons are great on Dragons at +18 with Epic Bane of Dragons & some combo of Burns/Flames/Shadows depending on the Dragon Boss.
    That's true, the basic ingredients for Thunderforged are very easy to acquire and should be accessible on a first life. Good point. But last I knew, the bane damage wasn't applying at all. Did this get fixed? Even if it didn't, Thunderforged is what you want to end up with anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nodoze View Post
    This is one of the few EE capable builds that can get Displacement on a successful melee on a first lifer without grinding greensteel. Thanks for sharing and maintaining the build as I think it is a great option for folk who want to quickly get to EE end game as a melee with no-grinding-yet-top-notch mitigation !
    Actually, The Count of Monte Cristo in my sig is more first life/new player accessible than Santa's Little Slayer. No tomes required for it, survivability and dps are as good as this build, maybe even better. The bard lacks as good of a ranged option but offers solid CC. It is not quite as gear dependent as this build either. Both are solid builds, but I would say the bard is more new character friendly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nodoze View Post
    Lastly, I am curious what you finally thought about the Epic Destiny: Divine Crusader (ED-DC) with this build as I never saw where you shared your thoughts on ED-DC after you capped it. I could see ED-DC as a great viable option for at least some scenarios and, unless you thought it was terribad, I respectfully recommend you update your Initial Post with your thoughts on EDP allocation and Twists for Divine Crusader for this particular build (even if folk mainly use it for farming fate points and Divine Karma).
    Divine crusader offers excellent healing and solid melee dps, but nothing in the game compares to the damage dealt with furyshot. When this build is not using furyshot, ranged dps is nothing special. So without furyshot (in other words, in any other destiny), you essentially lose the ranged option. If I was going to drop the ranged option, this build would look a lot different overall. Fury of the wild is particularly suited for a melee/ranged hybrid and has great synergy with this build's capabilities. So for this build, fury of the wild is the better choice imo. For my bard, however, I'd definitely say divine crusader is the optimal destiny.
    White Feather Sniper: dps focused, 62DC paralyzing arrows human ranged ranger/The Divine Cuisinart: human tempest in divine crusader/Hassan's Assassin: 81DC halfling assassin/The Count of Monte Cristo: human swashbuckler/Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer
    Abandoned builds: Totally Bass Ackwards/Santa's Little Slayer

  18. #118
    Community Member Nodoze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    Lots of good stuff ;-)
    Thanks for all the great input. Regarding the Bane Damage I don't know if that has been fixed yet but I agree it would be something they would want anyway.

    I am already following/subscribed to the Count thread and now that I have that input from you I will recommend it more when I see new players asking for help in the request builds thread depending on what they are asking for. TWF Elven Rangers are pretty iconic to many folk and lots of new players may be looking for something like that (plus some requests want ranged options) but the one thing I forgot is that Monk is not available free to F2Pers so that will be a bar to some. Santa's little slayer being triple classed may also be confusing to really new folk even though you documented the build well so I will try to keep that in mind also.

    Thanks for maintaining your builds (including 007 which is one of my favorites).

  19. #119
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    Default Overwhelming Critical Changes (U23)

    With the supposed upcoming change to Overwhelming Critical in U23 (no longer requires Great Cleave; no Strength requirement), how do you think this would reflect this build? Personally, I'd drop Strength a little but would still pick up Great Cleave, and simply spend the extra attribute points to pump INT for skill points.

    But I was more curious as to what the creator of this build would do with a potentially free feat slot and extra attribute points that could be redistributed elsewhere?

    Cheers.

  20. #120
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    When the pre-req changes in U23 hit, this build goes from needing STR 23 for OC to needing at most STR 13 for Power Atk (and CL+GC if you still want them). That makes you a lot less stat-constrained. It might even be worth going DEX-n-WIS-based and picking up 10K Stars; WIS 42 is the min. threshold for triple-procs, but WIS 36 is still good enough for ~1.5 extra procs per shot.

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