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  1. #1
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    Default Changing the five-minute time limit on entering the shroud,

    I suggest we get rid of the five-minute time limit on entering the shroud. I am not sure why there is a time limit, who cares if people join late.

    The LFM will tell them how late they are and they can decide themselves whether they still want to run it or not.

  2. #2

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    Pretty sure it's 3 minutes.

    The lockout is to prevent people from joining at the end and getting free raid chests.

    For me personally, the last thing I want is to have every shroud end with "anyone need to change to a different alt that needs supreme shards?" Just waiting for people to leave was grating enough. Thankfully running on elite has all but eliminated that delay.

  3. #3
    Community Member toaftoaf's Avatar
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    maybe they could do something like... portal goes away when part 4 is started? it would be nice to start it while the party fills. takes longer and longer for raids to fill.. you know.. dieing game and all

  4. #4
    Community Member LawfulEvil's Avatar
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    /signed. Yeah, I've been in a few groups that had to either finish without a full roster or restart because someone's client crashed when zoning in, and the DC and reconnect didn't make the timer cut-off. Having the portal stay open until part one is over should give plenty of time for almost full groups fill the last spot(s) or have the unlucky guy that DCed make it through the portal.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by LawfulEvil View Post
    Having the portal stay open until part one is over should give plenty of time for almost full groups fill the last spot(s) or have the unlucky guy that DCed make it through the portal.
    Yeah, this would be a good change. The initial portal stays open until you click the first altar. Done and done.

  6. #6
    Community Member darkly_dreaming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    For me personally, the last thing I want is to have every shroud end with "anyone need to change to a different alt that needs supreme shards?" Just waiting for people to leave was grating enough.
    This. When running Epic Chronoscope was a thing, waiting for 6 people to change to their gimp alts for completion, getting the quest shared, finding out they were on timer, switching again .... big fat waste of time for everyone else.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Yeah, this would be a good change. The initial portal stays open until you click the first altar. Done and done.
    This is a great solution. Although I would say until the final portal of part 1 is killed. No switching to loot shards of power that way. Make the portals linked, if you need the lore reasoning to go with it.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inoukchuk View Post
    This is a great solution. Although I would say until the final portal of part 1 is killed. No switching to loot shards of power that way. Make the portals linked, if you need the lore reasoning to go with it.
    How about changing the entrance portal to one of the ones you have to kill? If everyone is in you can kill it first. If you're still waiting on people you can save it for a while.

  9. #9
    Community Member Dendrix's Avatar
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    No

  10. #10
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Default /not signed

    Might as well ask for no barrier in Reavers too.

  11. #11
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    If the antics in CITW are any indication of what we could expect, just no. And I suspect there would be, as there are still people who insist on leaving instead of just getting their loot and building up their completions.
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  12. #12
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    My suggestion would be to close it after everyone dies if you don't go through the ritual of dying you shouldn't be able to finish the quest.

    Plus I wouldn't want permadeath to have away around dieing lol.

    I would definitely rather wait five minutes on the backend for somebody change out a toon. Than 30 minutes to an hour to fill a group in the beginning.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    Might as well ask for no barrier in Reavers too.
    Did you know that the Reaver didn’t have a barrier in the beginning.

    The raids loot system used to be a lot different than it is today. Each raid would be guaranteed to drop raid loot and the leader would disperse to whoever they saw fit.

    They put up the Barrier after people started to solo it and invite their friends and guildies in. They would open the chest find out what was in it and if they already had the item or didn’t need it they would ask if anyone needs “madstone boots”. People would join the group and go into the Reaver and take the boots without ever having to run the quest. There was good reason to put up the barrier.

    However now with the raid loot being random and the incentive to have more people in the group the better I do not see a problem with having the barrier down for a longer period of time. I agree you shouldn’t be able to come in after the quest is over, but I don’t see why everyone has to be there from the beginning.


    They made changes when they needed too. I do not see the problem with changing the time limit to when the barriers go up and do not see how this hurts anyone’s gaming experience.

    Personally we short man the shroud a lot of the time. If the barrier was down longer I would put an lfm up to let more people in. But with the barrier being so short it just isn’t worth putting up an lfm and I’m not going to wait.

    No one has to join a raid in process, but it could be there for those who want too.

  14. #14
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBlaze View Post
    Did you know that the Reaver didn’t have a barrier in the beginning.

    The raids loot system used to be a lot different than it is today. Each raid would be guaranteed to drop raid loot and the leader would disperse to whoever they saw fit.

    They put up the Barrier after people started to solo it and invite their friends and guildies in. They would open the chest find out what was in it and if they already had the item or didn’t need it they would ask if anyone needs “madstone boots”. People would join the group and go into the Reaver and take the boots without ever having to run the quest. There was good reason to put up the barrier.

    However now with the raid loot being random and the incentive to have more people in the group the better I do not see a problem with having the barrier down for a longer period of time. I agree you shouldn’t be able to come in after the quest is over, but I don’t see why everyone has to be there from the beginning.


    They made changes when they needed too. I do not see the problem with changing the time limit to when the barriers go up and do not see how this hurts anyone’s gaming experience.

    Personally we short man the shroud a lot of the time. If the barrier was down longer I would put an lfm up to let more people in. But with the barrier being so short it just isn’t worth putting up an lfm and I’m not going to wait.

    No one has to join a raid in process, but it could be there for those who want too.
    yeah, I know the old stories. that's why im glad times have changed to a better system. that old system sucked.

  15. #15
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    /signed.

    Close it when Arraetrikos spawns in part 4.

    Shroud was the most popular raid in DDO's history, and this would breathe a bit of life back into it, particularly at-level runs.
    I don't have a zerging problem.

    I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.

  16. #16
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toaftoaf View Post
    maybe they could do something like... portal goes away when part 4 is started? it would be nice to start it while the party fills. takes longer and longer for raids to fill.. you know.. dieing game and all
    And now for the rebuttal:

    It's so nice to have one raid in the game that actually promotes GROUPING!

    One raid where the newbie doesn't have to play catch up!

    One raid where people work together for the good of all!


    The Shroud used to be an End-Game raid and is by far the most popular Raid this game has known!


    The Shroud is no longer End-Game {at least until they allow us to run it on Epic} and the Devs could do us all a favour by keeping it set up so that Newbies {yes there are still newbies finding DDO} can be introduced to raiding in a controlled environment where half the group isn't already on Pt 3 while the FvS is kiting Harry in Pt 5 alone!

    Sound Familiar? Think Chronoscope - Where one person inevitably starts the instant he joins group without saying a word, the group notices and follows, that first person then goes straight for the end fight while the group's desperately trying to grab the opts!
    AND THE NEWBIE COMPLETELY ALONE, STEPS IN, RUNS INTO A COUPLA BEARDIES WHILE ON RED ALERT AND GETS HAMMERED!


    Let's look at the other raids shall we?

    -Tempest Spine - The Gauntlet that every DDO vet NOT already in the know from other MMOs knows to their everlasting shame and embarrassment. - Long before we had Chronoscope this was where we cut our teeth in DDO.
    Is still Zerged without thought by many, Can be soloed at level by many, Usual advice to newbies is keep up or pike!

    -VoN 5 - Half the quest is done by the first two to enter, Newbies are many times simply told to pike at the door.

    -ADQ - Groups have vanished for this in the past 2 years - Those in the know have already run it a thousand times and can run it solo in their sleep - No chance for Newbies to get in.

    -Twilight Forge - Lol

    -Reaver's Fate - At Level Groups for BB have almost completely disappeared and when they do get together have a high Failure Chance - Overlevel runs aren't much more popular but rarely fail - Newbie learns nothing though!

    -Abbot - Aaaaaaarrrrrrrrgggghh - So many deaths! - Party Wipes aren't uncommon even with 28s in group!

    -ToD - Still haven't ran ever!

    -LoB and MA - Rapidly becoming the new Twilight Forge!

    -HoX and VoD - Both can and have been soloed by many many vets over the years - Getting to them takes longer for most groups than running them!
    Lvl 28s steamroller them!

    -CitW - Closest raid in style to Tempest Spine BUT has serious faults that makes it unliked by many - Could have been great!

    -Fall of Truth - Euuurrrrrgh - This is a joke of a Raid in my view - I know many like it BUT I prefer The Tempest Spine/CitW/Shroud style of Raid to the One Room Beat down thank you!


    Of the one room beat downs HoX wins hands down {actually not totally a One Room raid and getting there helps a lot same as VoD which holds a creditable second place.
    VoN 6 and Titan Awakes maybe both fit in here but do come after Strong Pre-Raids {though those do have their own well known issues}.
    Reaver's Fate stays off the bottom of the pile
    ADQ2 is a Joke of a Raid that I've seen completed in 30 secs {my first run!} BUT Still beats Fall of Truth for me.



    Everyone Knows that You run Shroud as a group {whether you're Duoing it or 12 manning it!} - Why ruin a good thing?
    Last edited by FranOhmsford; 11-26-2013 at 10:31 PM.

  17. #17
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    And now for the rebuttal:

    It's so nice to have one raid in the game that actually promotes GROUPING!

    One raid where the newbie doesn't have to play catch up!

    One raid where people work together for the good of all!


    The Shroud used to be an End-Game raid and is by far the most popular Raid this game has known!


    The Shroud is no longer End-Game {at least until they allow us to run it on Epic} and the Devs could do us all a favour by keeping it set up so that Newbies {yes there are still newbies finding DDO} can be introduced to raiding in a controlled environment where half the group isn't already on Pt 3 while the FvS is kiting Harry in Pt 5 alone!

    Sound Familiar? Think Chronoscope - Where one person inevitably starts the instant he joins group without saying a word, the group notices and follows, that first person then goes straight for the end fight while the group's desperately trying to grab the opts!
    AND THE NEWBIE COMPLETELY ALONE, STEPS IN, RUNS INTO A COUPLA BEARDIES WHILE ON RED ALERT AND GETS HAMMERED!


    Let's look at the other raids shall we?

    -Tempest Spine - The Gauntlet that every DDO vet NOT already in the know from other MMOs knows to their everlasting shame and embarrassment. - Long before we had Chronoscope this was where we cut our teeth in DDO.
    Is still Zerged without thought by many, Can be soloed at level by many, Usual advice to newbies is keep up or pike!

    -VoN 5 - Half the quest is done by the first two to enter, Newbies are many times simply told to pike at the door.

    -ADQ - Groups have vanished for this in the past 2 years - Those in the know have already run it a thousand times and can run it solo in their sleep - No chance for Newbies to get in.

    -Twilight Forge - Lol

    -Reaver's Fate - At Level Groups for BB have almost completely disappeared and when they do get together have a high Failure Chance - Overlevel runs aren't much more popular but rarely fail - Newbie learns nothing though!

    -Abbot - Aaaaaaarrrrrrrrgggghh - So many deaths! - Party Wipes aren't uncommon even with 28s in group!

    -ToD - Still haven't ran ever!

    -LoB and MA - Rapidly becoming the new Twilight Forge!

    -HoX and VoD - Both can and have been soloed by many many vets over the years - Getting to them takes longer for most groups than running them!
    Lvl 28s steamroller them!

    -CitW - Closest raid in style to Tempest Spine BUT has serious faults that makes it unliked by many - Could have been great!

    -Fall of Truth - Euuurrrrrgh - This is a joke of a Raid in my view - I know many like it BUT I prefer The Tempest Spine/CitW/Shroud style of Raid to the One Room Beat down thank you!


    Of the one room beat downs HoX wins hands down {actually not totally a One Room raid and getting there helps a lot same as VoD which holds a creditable second place.
    VoN 6 and Titan Awakes maybe both fit in here but do come after Strong Pre-Raids {though those do have their own well known issues}.
    Reaver's Fate stays off the bottom of the pile
    ADQ2 is a Joke of a Raid that I've seen completed in 30 secs {my first run!} BUT Still beats Fall of Truth for me.



    Everyone Knows that You run Shroud as a group {whether you're Duoing it or 12 manning it!} - Why ruin a good thing?


    FoT is the raid that is done by groups with teamwork now. Shroud no longer merits teamwork because we outlevel it by so much.

    The last time Shroud really involved teamwork was when the cap was 20 and the blades were briefly made lethal, meaning players coordinated monster kill timing and had to move as a group.
    I don't have a zerging problem.

    I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.

  18. #18
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    I guess that's the way it is on your server, but on mine I disagree with at least half of what you say. not once have I been in a raid and newbs are told to pike or pike if they cant keep up. they are told to keep up though. newbs get into ADQ, but only if there is an lfm for the raid which I haven't seen a heroic one in a very long time. I see at level Reavers not often, but they do exist. some take awhile to fill. it could be a few days before I could see one and they can appear in lumps over a few days. no rhyme or reason to it, but usually the ones I join have at least several newbs in them.. haven't done an Abbot since cap was 20. saw lfms for that for the first time in a long time just a couple weeks ago. it lasted for a couple days and haven't noticed any since. newbs = /sleep. HOX and VOD wasn't soloed by many vets over the years. it was considered an accomplishment to solo VOD when cap was 20 and drinking tons of mana pots. today, as powerful as we are now, its only a personal accomplishment. HOX was soloed by epic vets awhile back before the devs updated Mommas DR.

    its too bad many of these old popular raids have gone or almost gone to belly up status.

  19. #19
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    I guess that's the way it is on your server, but on mine I disagree with at least half of what you say. not once have I been in a raid and newbs are told to pike or pike if they cant keep up. they are told to keep up though. newbs get into ADQ, but only if there is an lfm for the raid which I haven't seen a heroic one in a very long time. I see at level Reavers not often, but they do exist. some take awhile to fill. it could be a few days before I could see one and they can appear in lumps over a few days. no rhyme or reason to it, but usually the ones I join have at least several newbs in them.. haven't done an Abbot since cap was 20. saw lfms for that for the first time in a long time just a couple weeks ago. it lasted for a couple days and haven't noticed any since. newbs = /sleep. HOX and VOD wasn't soloed by many vets over the years. it was considered an accomplishment to solo VOD when cap was 20 and drinking tons of mana pots. today, as powerful as we are now, its only a personal accomplishment. HOX was soloed by epic vets awhile back before the devs updated Mommas DR.

    its too bad many of these old popular raids have gone or almost gone to belly up status.

    OK So the Told to Pike bit was Exaggeration but frankly they may as well have been as when you're running to keep up and just hoping you don't take the wrong turn in a raid with no map it certainly feels like you're piking.

    Been the Leader and seen Vets go charging off without a word, Seen people enter while group's still forming without a word - Is this really what you want for Shroud?


    It may look like Tempest Spine is my go to example BUT these things happen in VoN, Chrono, CitW - Frankly any raid that's NOT a One Room beatdown or in the case of Twilight Forge doesn't require a number of people early on.

    I've seen the way to VoD/HoX cleared on many occasions before the Raid's even full, I've seen early entries into VoD set off the Barrier locking everyone else out.

    Their are people out there soloing Shroud now {Which is why I deliberately specified whether duoing or 12 manning in my previous post when talking about group play.}
    My version of Many People soloing VoD/HoX {and again I did not specify at level when I made that statement} may be quite a bit lower than your version of Many.

    I know that there's someone out there who can solo whatever quest/raid you care to mention {there was even a thread a while back showing a Solo VoN 6 with a Duo in VoN 5!}.

    I'm not saying that soloing Raids should be impossible {at least I won't say it in this thread as it's off topic} - I'm just saying that it shouldn't be considered the Default and that seems to be where we're heading....Fast!

    FoT may require Teamwork - I didn't actually say it doesn't BUT I didn't specify that the Teamwork I'm talking about is quite different to what is required in a One Room Raid like VoD or indeed FoT - Do we really want Every Raid to be a One Room Beatdown?


    Going back to Chronoscope - We're seeing those runs where one person pretty much soloes the instance while the group's filling in Epics now as well as in Heroic Runs.
    Is this what you want to see Shroud become?

    Surely Not?


    Now having thought about it I'm not against changing the Timer on the Barrier to allow for more leeway with the old IP but doubling it to 10 mins or specifying once portal to Pt 2 opens Portal to Pt 1 Closes would be more than enough in my view.

  20. #20
    Community Member FlaviusMaximus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    ...
    FoT may require Teamwork - I didn't actually say it doesn't BUT I didn't specify that the Teamwork I'm talking about is quite different to what is required in a One Room Raid like VoD or indeed FoT - Do we really want Every Raid to be a One Room Beatdown?...
    The arena style fight in FoT feels uninspired to me. I have never quite understood the love fest for it. I can only assume that players like short, simple raids.

    /signed on the original post. Disconnections in the beginning can occasionally screw people over if they don't get in the first portal, and I only see it as a positive if you don't have to wait around for stragglers to get started.

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