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  1. #21
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Opposite is healer needed.

  2. #22
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_Rapp View Post
    Sigh. This is the state of the game. Why is the Cleric even in there anymore? If you're not totally self sufficient, you're done. You're dead weight in everyone's eyes. Yer a noob, get gud scrub.

    To actually answer OP's question, I think "All welcome" is fairly standard. Failing that, include some kind of joke or witty one-liner indicating the group's willingness to utilize teamwork and cooperation to support each other while accomplishing difficult tasks. Some suggestions include "LET'S GO DROW HUNTIN' BOYS" or "GIANTS = DEAD, YAY TEAMWORK!!!1"

    Feel free to experiment to see what gives you the best results, and as always, play safe around the traps.
    I use "all welcome" to mean just that. "All welcome".

    If we get a cleric/fvs and you need a cleric/fvs - bonus. I'm not waiting on a cleric to join though.

    There cleric is there, btw, to pike until class level 11 and then to finish quests at a run while the melees pike. Also smash undead, zap things with light beams / smite and swing the biggest stick they can to help us finish faster. Buffs are handy, and appreciated. Raises welcome.

    My current cleric is there for comic relief, trying to brute-force through traps, gathering soulstones and finding / raising lost party members. Also for explaining the quest mechanics to new players. And cleaving ... cleaving is fun.
    Last edited by voodoogroves; 11-25-2013 at 09:17 AM.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  3. #23
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    [popcorn]The opposite of "BYOH" is "Team Players" because everyone knows that BYOH means that you are selfish and don't care about other people and aren't willing to work as a part of a team.[/popcorn]

    In all seriousness, I don't think that there is an opposite of BYOH. There is a different play style where one person is declared to be responsible for the health of the other party members, but even in those runs, party members are still responsible for their own health as well because they need to pull out of a fight when it is too hot for them to handle, avoid aggroing too much at one time, build an appropriate amount of damage mitigation in their character, etc. Every quest should have people bringing at least some self-healing and taking some responsibility for their own red bar. The question is of the degree to which that responsibility extends.
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  4. #24
    Community Member darkrune's Avatar
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    Default my vote is STR

    STR or Smell the Roses.

    Tells people that you are going to take your time and do everything and possibly get dead as roses also are a typical funeral flower.
    Darkrune TRx2 lvl 20 FvS, Darkdivinity lvl 20 cleric, Darkaxe lvl 20 fighter, Darktune TRx1 lvl 4bard, Darkbow lvl 20 AA Ranger, Darksoldier TRx1 lvl 20 Barb, Darkspells TRx2 lvl 20 Wizard, Darkbattle TRx1 lvl 20 artificer, Darktemper lvl 17 Ranger, Darkfists TRx1 lvl 20 Monk, Darkherald lvl 5 paladin Guild Leader of No Politics Thelanis Server

  5. #25
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    My experience shows me that far too often "BYOH" really "means every man for himself."


    "All Welcome" is a much friendlier LFM comment.


    Now, I totally believe that professional adventures bring their own heals etc. They bring all of the tools needed to do a job.
    But they also help each other.

    If I wanted to solo, I would solo.


    The older I get, I know exactly what kind of person I want to be.... that applies on the Internet as well as in person.
    I want to be a nice, friendly, helpful human being.

    and I want to associate with the same.

    I wish society would show zero tolerance for rudeness.



    Anyway... I totally believe in self sufficiency.
    But I believe in working together too.

    I hate standing around doing nothing.
    I hate waiting for a healer.... or rogue.. or anything else.

    Every class can handle challenges in dungeons in their own way.
    Every class can do something to help someone else who is in trouble.

    Expecting someone to babysit you or hold your cape is just wrong IMO. (but I understand new guys need more help and have fewer resources.. plus this game has a learning curve.)



    Anyway... I like "All welcome."

    I tend to put "First Five" since that implies that I do not plan on waiting for a healer so come prepared.

    Although, actually I rarely put up LFMs, because it gets frustrating when people join and start making demands... (like "ok, now we just need a healer." That and I prefer to follow and let others set the pace... plus I prefer to never give spoilers, so new guys can enjoy experiencing the game for the first time.
    I would rather join someone else's group.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  6. #26
    Community Member Miow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemoneyes View Post
    i vote for: hjeel meh!
    on a more serious note, i consider every group that has not stated byoh as a group where you will get heals.
    Me too

  7. #27
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemoneyes View Post
    i vote for: hjeel meh!
    on a more serious note, i consider every group that has not stated byoh as a group where you will get heals.
    See, I'm the exact opposite - and maybe I need to clarify.

    Upon joining any group that does not specify BYOH or having a dedicated healer, I assume I'm responsible for myself - bringing my own heals. I do not assume someone else will be babysitting me, but will appreciate any help nonetheless. Regardless, I will help others as that's what I do.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that unless it is specified, I assume as much of my own experience will be determined by ME, and place no responsibility on anyone else.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  8. #28
    Community Member Saravis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post
    See, I'm the exact opposite - and maybe I need to clarify.

    Upon joining any group that does not specify BYOH or having a dedicated healer, I assume I'm responsible for myself - bringing my own heals. I do not assume someone else will be babysitting me, but will appreciate any help nonetheless. Regardless, I will help others as that's what I do.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that unless it is specified, I assume as much of my own experience will be determined by ME, and place no responsibility on anyone else.
    In my opinion, if its not specified then that means that there are no specifics to who can join, that includes newbies and non-self-sufficient builds. While veterans usually feel that self-sufficiency is important, not everyone is going to understand that. If you join a group that doesn't specify, but you have your own heals, I'm sure they'll be happy to have you along. I just wouldn't expect that of everyone to join.

  9. #29
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saravis View Post
    I just wouldn't expect that of everyone to join.
    I place no expectation on others - I assume my own responsibility when I join a group.

    I tend to be very clear in LFMs I post.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  10. #30
    Community Member Dave_Rapp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post
    I assume as much of my own experience will be determined by ME
    I can't think of a way to phrase this that doesn't sound hostile. So I'll just say it.

    If this is your mindset when gaming, why on earth are you playing an MMO? An old MMO, at that? Wouldn't you be happier playing... almost any other video game?
    Last edited by Dave_Rapp; 11-25-2013 at 09:41 AM. Reason: spelling is hard
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  11. #31
    Death's Dominator Eth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post
    I use "all welcome" to mean just that. "All welcome".

    If we get a cleric/fvs and you need a cleric/fvs - bonus. I'm not waiting on a cleric to join though.

    There cleric is there, btw, to pike until class level 11 and then to finish quests at a run while the melees pike. Also smash undead, zap things with light beams / smite and swing the biggest stick they can to help us finish faster. Buffs are handy, and appreciated. Raises welcome.

    My current cleric is there for comic relief, trying to brute-force through traps, gathering soulstones and finding / raising lost party members. Also for explaining the quest mechanics to new players. And cleaving ... cleaving is fun.
    This. Why should "All Welcome" mean I will make sure we have someone who makes up for the deficits in your build?
    When I post "All welcome" in my LFMs it means I'll click "Accept" when you hit my LFM without even reading your Name/Guild/Class Split/Whatever.
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  12. #32

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    Yes, there is an opposite for BYOH it is Bring your own DPS.

    This simply stats that you are in a position to heal barbarians and appreciate their strong ability to take down foes quickly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Hjeal meh!
    Regarding builds and their ability to heal, one would question whether a pale master CC wizard could heal?

    In a recent FoT raid, Fawngate, who wears the gauntlet of immortality, killed trash, got spectrals attention, got Reavers attention, and healed the TO tank all in the same raid, backing up various toons when their death necessitated someone stepping up to the plate and getting the job done till they could be Resurrected.

    Its not so difficult to have Cocoon twisted in and enough umd to use heal scrolls.
    In fact it probably ought to be considered standard protocol for a good toon.

    Its easily possible to twist in renewal as well, which is what a good divine used 80% of the time anyway.

  13. #33
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_Rapp View Post
    I can't think of a way to phrase this that doesn't sound hostile. So I'll just say it.

    If this is your mindset when gaming, why on earth are you playing an MMO? An old MMO, at that? Wouldn't you be happier playing... almost any other video game?
    I'm not voodoogrooves, but I'll answer this from my own perspective. I enjoy being social. I like working as a team. I like when people toss me a heal when I need it. I like when people carry my soulstone when I do something dumb. I don't assume that anyone is going to do any of those things for me. I take responsibility for my own character and I help other players as best I can when I'm in a PUG and I hope that they'll do the same for me, but I keep in mind that my red bar is my responsibility (even if there is a Cleric or FvS in the group) and I take steps to make sure that my red bar doesn't go to -10 or below when I can.

    I don't see any inconsistency in that. It's how I live my life as well. I take care of myself. I take responsibility for myself and for my own actions. I help other people when I can and I am glad to accept help from other people, but I don't blame them when something bad happens to me and I don't think it's their fault when I don't get what I want. I like being part of a team. I just don't expect anyone else on the team to carry me on their shoulders.
    No one in the world ever gets what they want
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  14. #34
    The Hatchery Habreno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    Its not so difficult to have Cocoon twisted in and enough umd to use heal scrolls.
    This I agree with, but also keep in mind some of us don't have SP unless we wear an item. It is somewhat difficult to maintain DPS while be expected to lose an item and a twist slot for Cocoon. It is also somewhat difficult to maintain DPS when you don't inherently have the ability to use Heal scrolls and need gear to supplement UMD in order to do so (not even counting that Heal scrolls don't do much DPS)

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    In fact it probably ought to be considered standard protocol for a good toon.
    I disagree with this part for the reasons given above.



    As a note, before people go at my neck, I may be misinterpreting your comments as applying to all toons, as your OP did reference a PM Wizard in the paragraph above these. I also am a supporter of BYOH, even on a HOrc Barb.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLegendOfAra View Post
    Welcome to Argo, where our end game players are constantly striving for new and exciting ways to make themselves more gimp, and continually working towards progressively more pointless goals.
    BYOH. Know it, abide by it, or don't mess with those who do.

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Habreno View Post
    I disagree with this part for the reasons given above.
    Nods, was thinking more of sp types as that is what I play atm, but my general statement did not indicate that.

  16. #36
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_Rapp View Post
    I can't think of a way to phrase this that doesn't sound hostile. So I'll just say it.
    No worries. Internet sucks for some things, and I'm pretty easy going.

    In fact, I suspect the "interent" is why you're reacting like you are anyway - stuff is hard to explain.

    If this is your mindset when gaming, why on earth are you playing an MMO? An old MMO, at that? Wouldn't you be happier playing... almost any other video game?
    I'm a social guy. I like playing this game with others. I just don't expect/insist others to modify their own behaviors for me.

    Look at PNP. Let's say I join a PNP group - say a group at a convention. There's a dude who for whatever reason has decided to build someone who throws boomerangs. He's the best you can be at the level we are. I don't expect him to heal me. We may not get a "healer", so I expect I need to take care of myself. We're going to have a blast - we'll try to figure out how to finish the adventure with whatever party we got. We'll make jokes, we'll run through traps and maybe we'll be struggling as between us we only have 2 cure light potions.

    Same with DDO. I don't expect someone with a cleric icon to be a healer - maybe they want to swing a big sword? Maybe they don't enjoy healing - that's cool. I take on responsibility for myself. We'll chat on voice chat. We'll complete the quest. Hey, maybe that guy with the cleric icon tosses me heals - that's cool ... thanks man! Maybe he doesn't ... that's cool too, I'm responsible for myself. We may not have a trapper and maybe one of us has to run through (and die) in the traps and raise on the other side to get a lever. That's cool - it's fun - we're going to complete with a suboptimal group. We'll laugh, I'll die, he'll raise me, I'll die again. We'll joke, I'll say it must be the lag, he'll say it's the lag between the screen and seat and we'll laugh.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  17. #37
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Habreno View Post
    This I agree with, but also keep in mind some of us don't have SP unless we wear an item.
    Its just a single yellow slot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Originally Posted by Random Person #2 View Post
    People who exploit bugs in code are cheaters cheaters cheaters. And they are big fat ****yheads too.

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    Its just a single yellow slot.
    How many Cocoons out of 200 sp slotted in?

    12 sp cost x 16 uses = 192 sp right?
    Last edited by Silverleafeon; 11-25-2013 at 10:20 AM.

  19. #39

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    I wonder why, when I provide a divine hireling, toons that need heals don't follow me around, but instead wander off?

  20. #40
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    Or:

    I'm too lazy to bother with building a good character, need someone to hand hold me through quest.
    Or;

    I'm so anti-social in a teamwork based game or made such a reputation for myself I have to only rely on myself for groups from now on.

    No?

    If you do not build or play your characters they way I build mine or you don't play they way I want you to, you are beneath me and subject to ridicule.

    Better?

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
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