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  1. #1
    Community Member Rakuda13's Avatar
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    Default Is there an opposite for BYOH

    Most of us know BYOH basically mean take care of yourself/TR train/no hires. Usually fallowed by the quest being on elite.

    I like BYOH as it lets me know the basic level of the people involved in the quest. It really works good,Im not complaining.

    What i would like to propose is something that lets people know that its not being run a at the BYOH level.

    I was thinking of something along the lines of Newbies/Flavor builds/Hires welcome.

    NFBH for short.Might not be the best but looking for ideas. Of course this can be bent the same way BYOH is but its a start.

  2. #2
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    DBYOH? As in, Don't Bring Your Own Healing?

  3. #3
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    i vote for: hjeel meh!
    on a more serious note, i consider every group that has not stated byoh as a group where you will get heals.
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  4. #4
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    I applaud your intentions OP, but I rather suspect that you're going about this backwards and complicating it far more than you need to.

    While we might know what acronyms like BYOH mean, newbies often don't, so I suggest avoiding them entirely.

    Just put "All Welcome" or "Newbies Welcome" in your LFM.

  5. #5
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    I usually put "All Welcome" just because it is a signal that dying happens and tends (for me) to keep those away who would get upset when someone dies.

  6. #6
    2015 DDO Players Council Seikojin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coyopa View Post
    I usually put "All Welcome" just because it is a signal that dying happens and tends (for me) to keep those away who would get upset when someone dies.
    ^That soo much! It is weird how nasty people get when someone dies.

  7. #7
    Community Member Miow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemoneyes View Post
    i vote for: hjeel meh!
    on a more serious note, i consider every group that has not stated byoh as a group where you will get heals.
    Me too

  8. #8
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemoneyes View Post
    i vote for: hjeel meh!
    on a more serious note, i consider every group that has not stated byoh as a group where you will get heals.
    See, I'm the exact opposite - and maybe I need to clarify.

    Upon joining any group that does not specify BYOH or having a dedicated healer, I assume I'm responsible for myself - bringing my own heals. I do not assume someone else will be babysitting me, but will appreciate any help nonetheless. Regardless, I will help others as that's what I do.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that unless it is specified, I assume as much of my own experience will be determined by ME, and place no responsibility on anyone else.
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  9. #9
    Community Member Saravis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post
    See, I'm the exact opposite - and maybe I need to clarify.

    Upon joining any group that does not specify BYOH or having a dedicated healer, I assume I'm responsible for myself - bringing my own heals. I do not assume someone else will be babysitting me, but will appreciate any help nonetheless. Regardless, I will help others as that's what I do.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that unless it is specified, I assume as much of my own experience will be determined by ME, and place no responsibility on anyone else.
    In my opinion, if its not specified then that means that there are no specifics to who can join, that includes newbies and non-self-sufficient builds. While veterans usually feel that self-sufficiency is important, not everyone is going to understand that. If you join a group that doesn't specify, but you have your own heals, I'm sure they'll be happy to have you along. I just wouldn't expect that of everyone to join.

  10. #10
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saravis View Post
    I just wouldn't expect that of everyone to join.
    I place no expectation on others - I assume my own responsibility when I join a group.

    I tend to be very clear in LFMs I post.
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  11. #11
    Community Member Dave_Rapp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post
    I assume as much of my own experience will be determined by ME
    I can't think of a way to phrase this that doesn't sound hostile. So I'll just say it.

    If this is your mindset when gaming, why on earth are you playing an MMO? An old MMO, at that? Wouldn't you be happier playing... almost any other video game?
    Last edited by Dave_Rapp; 11-25-2013 at 08:41 AM. Reason: spelling is hard
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  12. #12
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_Rapp View Post
    I can't think of a way to phrase this that doesn't sound hostile. So I'll just say it.

    If this is your mindset when gaming, why on earth are you playing an MMO? An old MMO, at that? Wouldn't you be happier playing... almost any other video game?
    I'm not voodoogrooves, but I'll answer this from my own perspective. I enjoy being social. I like working as a team. I like when people toss me a heal when I need it. I like when people carry my soulstone when I do something dumb. I don't assume that anyone is going to do any of those things for me. I take responsibility for my own character and I help other players as best I can when I'm in a PUG and I hope that they'll do the same for me, but I keep in mind that my red bar is my responsibility (even if there is a Cleric or FvS in the group) and I take steps to make sure that my red bar doesn't go to -10 or below when I can.

    I don't see any inconsistency in that. It's how I live my life as well. I take care of myself. I take responsibility for myself and for my own actions. I help other people when I can and I am glad to accept help from other people, but I don't blame them when something bad happens to me and I don't think it's their fault when I don't get what I want. I like being part of a team. I just don't expect anyone else on the team to carry me on their shoulders.
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  13. #13
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_Rapp View Post
    I can't think of a way to phrase this that doesn't sound hostile. So I'll just say it.
    No worries. Internet sucks for some things, and I'm pretty easy going.

    In fact, I suspect the "interent" is why you're reacting like you are anyway - stuff is hard to explain.

    If this is your mindset when gaming, why on earth are you playing an MMO? An old MMO, at that? Wouldn't you be happier playing... almost any other video game?
    I'm a social guy. I like playing this game with others. I just don't expect/insist others to modify their own behaviors for me.

    Look at PNP. Let's say I join a PNP group - say a group at a convention. There's a dude who for whatever reason has decided to build someone who throws boomerangs. He's the best you can be at the level we are. I don't expect him to heal me. We may not get a "healer", so I expect I need to take care of myself. We're going to have a blast - we'll try to figure out how to finish the adventure with whatever party we got. We'll make jokes, we'll run through traps and maybe we'll be struggling as between us we only have 2 cure light potions.

    Same with DDO. I don't expect someone with a cleric icon to be a healer - maybe they want to swing a big sword? Maybe they don't enjoy healing - that's cool. I take on responsibility for myself. We'll chat on voice chat. We'll complete the quest. Hey, maybe that guy with the cleric icon tosses me heals - that's cool ... thanks man! Maybe he doesn't ... that's cool too, I'm responsible for myself. We may not have a trapper and maybe one of us has to run through (and die) in the traps and raise on the other side to get a lever. That's cool - it's fun - we're going to complete with a suboptimal group. We'll laugh, I'll die, he'll raise me, I'll die again. We'll joke, I'll say it must be the lag, he'll say it's the lag between the screen and seat and we'll laugh.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_Rapp View Post
    I can't think of a way to phrase this that doesn't sound hostile. So I'll just say it.

    If this is your mindset when gaming, why on earth are you playing an MMO? An old MMO, at that? Wouldn't you be happier playing... almost any other video game?
    Why do you believe that playing with others = letting someone else be responsible for your gaming experience? There is no rule that says gaming with others means that you MUST be dependent on those others. What if you PUG with a tank who isn't very good? Does that mean that your group is doomed to failure or do you find another strategy for killing the boss? If you depend on that tank for your gaming experience then you're not going to have a very good experience. If you instead depend on yourself and figure out another way to deal with the situation, you could potentially still have a good gaming experience.

  15. #15
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    I guess the popular and simple "all welcome" is close to what you're after, and is already in use.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemoneyes View Post
    i consider every group that has not stated byoh as a group where you will get heals.
    Get heals from who?

    I consider every group BYOH unless someone has said something along the lines of "I will heal you".

    Quote Originally Posted by Rakuda13 View Post
    What i would like to propose is something that lets people know that its not being run a at the BYOH level.
    I suggest you use, "I will heal you." If you can't heal others, where do you think the healing is going to be coming from?

  17. #17
    2015 DDO Players Council FuzzyDuck81's Avatar
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    Maybe it'd be "Bring Healing For Others Only"? Could work in a duo, have a fleshy non-pale master wizard & a warforged favoured soul with improved fortification?
    I don't mean to come across as unsympathetic - but I am, so I do.

  18. #18
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    I'm not sure opposite is what you're asking for.

    I do see things like "traditional roles" or "move as a group, PNP style" pop up. That's kinda the opposite.

    I also assume every group is BYOH unless told otherwise. When I see "all welcome", I read that as "taking whoever, so take care of yourself".
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  19. #19
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post
    When I see "all welcome", I read that as "taking whoever, so take care of yourself".
    Yeah, I always took it to mean that too. Since if all are welcome, then they aren't saving a spot for a healer, or a trapper or cc or whatever else for that matter.

  20. #20
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnbeimnech View Post
    Yeah, I always took it to mean that too. Since if all are welcome, then they aren't saving a spot for a healer, or a trapper or cc or whatever else for that matter.
    What i would ask then is in what way does that differentiate from byoh?

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