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  1. #1
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    Default Epic TR sytem needs Rebalanced

    Devs,

    You rememeber when you first proposed the idea of ETR and losing destiny XP? The idea of players grinding destiny XP was not well received, was it? So you introduce the new Karma XP system, which does allow us to keep our Epic Destinies, however still forces players to play in EDs that simply suck (for lack of any better term to describe). The Divine Sphere has 2 destinies that just simply suck if you like to run any EEs. The idea of farming a whole life of with any ED in that sphere on anything save a healer that just heals is mind numbing especially x9.

    Should you rethink the karma XP system?
    Should we be able to fill a sphere with our choice of ED active regardless if it is in that sphere or not?
    Should the Karma required to ER be lowered?

    I personally like the idea of activating a sphere to fill with karma regardless of what ED we are in so long as you have those EDs completely filled from that sphere then leave it at 6mil. I think most everyone agrees that forcing players to be active in an ED that they are not built for is "the grind" that people originally complained about when this was introduce intially, and the Karma system is not the answer in its current form. Many of us prefer to run Epic Elite and this whole system seems unrewarding to those that want to run the highest challenge available.

    Oh and do not get me started on CoV balance, that is a whole other issue.

  2. #2
    Community Member Draxis's Avatar
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    I can't speak for karma, since I started out with maxxed EDs and 6 mil karma per sphere.

    But the CoVs... The CoVs gotta change. I've played 5+ hrs every day since the update and just now reached the halfway mark with my CoVs. Ridiculous.

  3. #3
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
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    I think CoV cost for a ETR or ITR heart should be around 2500. Currently the cost is too high for the reward/gain. But then again what else is there to do right now in the game?
    Characters: Celemia / Tukson / Thau (Broken link) / Atremus

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  4. #4
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    I happen to like both of the Divine destinies, but I can see where you're coming from with the complaint. I can't help but wonder if it's not best solved just by adding more destinies, though...as that would be a good thing to do anyway. The Divine Sphere doesn't even have a "cleric analogue" option yet, and they could easily make that more of a Divine Disciple or Warpriest style of a destiny given that the Favoured Soul one is already quite healer-friendly. True Reincarnation is supposed to include an element of doing things differently after all, at least once you've maxed out on stacking up the lives from one class / chosen destiny.

  5. #5
    Community Member Shorlong's Avatar
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    I am also upset by this, but it goes even deeper. I am about to TR my barbarian. But, I really want a Paladin past life instead of barbarian. Running a Paladin for 20 levels just DOESN'T sound like my idea of fun. So, I feel that I should be allowed to just choose the past life I want without having to earn it.

    That's what you sound like. You want that Previous Life, you run in that sphere. It's not that difficult to figure out....
    Shorlong - Pale Master, Cevon - Druid Archer, Gorgnak - Barbarian, Addanc - Bear Tank, Juristash - Shadar Kai Assassin, Treiah - Morninglord Tempest Ranger, Baylfyre - CC Bard, Deimanus - Bladeforged Melee Arti, Daerian - Healing Cleric Morninglord, Krazig - Pally Tank, Veriste - Shadar Kai Death Knight, Xanapheia - TWF FVS, Helainia - Shadar Kai Henshin-Theif

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  6. #6
    Community Member Kalimah's Avatar
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    I solved it by just heroic tr'ing and saying the hell with epic stuff for now lol.
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  7. #7
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    I agree fully with Shorlong. If you want a divine past life, spend time in that sphere. It's not even a specific destiny, you got a sphere to choose from. Unlike heroic TR, you're not even forced to be always in that sphere.

    To get a heroic past life, you need the majority of levels from that class. To get an epic past life, you need 6 mil karma.

    As long as you can easily switch destiniy and simply earn the karma doing some VoN3 runs or other fast xp quests and gain Commendations in EE with your main destiny, any complaints are likely to be put aside quickly by the devs. Past life are not free gifts and unless you want to spend money you'll also have some work to get free hearts. We're just spoiled by how easy it is to get free True Hearts, compare it instead to the grind to gain enough TP for adventure packs just from favor as pure f2p.

  8. #8
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Drop the karma requirements to 2 million XP.

    Lower the CoV heart costs to 2500.

    Sing praises glory to Teh_Troll.

  9. #9
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shorlong View Post
    Running a Paladin for 20 levels just DOESN'T sound like my idea of fun.
    Oh it sucks . .. but 8 pally/6 ranger/6 rogue is fine.

    We can cheese our way past the BS and un-fun heroic TRs, let us do the same in epic. Either drop it to 2 million so it's not as paiful or put shears back in the store.

  10. #10
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    Hey, if we can rack up, say, Divine Epic PLs while running in Primal EDs, how about also we can rack up, say, Heroic Barbarian PLs while running as a Sorc?

  11. #11
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    Hey, if we can rack up, say, Divine Epic PLs while running in Primal EDs, how about also we can rack up, say, Heroic Barbarian PLs while running as a Sorc?
    You can with a +5 heart.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shorlong View Post
    I am also upset by this, but it goes even deeper. I am about to TR my barbarian. But, I really want a Paladin past life instead of barbarian. Running a Paladin for 20 levels just DOESN'T sound like my idea of fun. So, I feel that I should be allowed to just choose the past life I want without having to earn it.

    That's what you sound like. You want that Previous Life, you run in that sphere. It's not that difficult to figure out....
    As Mr Troll said..I ran a 10 pally/8 fighter/2monk. Super quick and easy fun tr life.

    While it's not difficult to figure out, it's a mindless, stupid and eye-bleeding grind. It's not too hard to figure out that is not what this game needs right now. 2-3 million karma ok, there's some pain for your gain. But really, the EPL's are not worth the pain of 6 million XP in off destinies/sphere's.

    That's not hard to figure out either, you know, once you have done it once. Have you?

    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    Hey, if we can rack up, say, Divine Epic PLs while running in Primal EDs, how about also we can rack up, say, Heroic Barbarian PLs while running as a Sorc?
    Man, it's not the same. Heroic you level with enhancements that help you as you go and as difficulty increases.. In off destinies you get none of that. More than likely most if-not-all the destinies will give you only a few options that are helpful, not 20 levels worth of enhancement AP's that are 90% useful.

    The people who keep saying this are the people who have never ER'ed yet. Quit the inaccurate analogies, do it for yourself, then come back with an honest opinion.
    Last edited by Drwaz99; 11-25-2013 at 03:56 PM.

  13. #13
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    well, the first thing that needs to happen is understand what a reincarnation actually is. the current ER system is not at all anything like reincarnation. a different word needs to be used like Epic Training or something that actually makes more sense. heroic reincarnation is the total opposite of what a epic reincarnation is. when you epic reincarnate, you just go back 8 levels and retrain or train new epic abilities. so you get a epic past life for going back 8 spaces on the board game? come on Turbine.
    #MakeDDOGreatAgain

    You are the one choosing not to play alts.

    Casual player now investing way less than I used to into the game, playing 1-3 months at a time and still want nothing to do with Reaper. #improvepuggrouping#alldifficultiesmatter

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drwaz99 View Post
    Man, it's not the same.
    It is the same if you're wanting to get the benefits (past life) from something without actually playing it.

    Whether playing it is hard or easy is a separate issue.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    It is the same if you're wanting to get the benefits (past life) from something without actually playing it.

    Whether playing it is hard or easy is a separate issue.
    Straight Question: Have done a ER? If so, stop reading and ok. If not:

    Playing a Barb in Exalted Angel Or Unyielding Sovereignty is not you playing a Cleric of Favor Soul. Come on, you need a much better argument. This is the same one people keep rehashing and they are the people who no idea what they are talking about.

    If you response is to TR and then do it..if that's what they wanted, they could have implemented that mechanic but chose not to. They could have also given us the option of rebuilding after a ER, but didn't.

    It's basically a barely scaled down version of the original proposal.

    "Oh you don't want to re-level ED's for 2mil XP?" Ok, we'll just make you stay in the sphere and triple the XP amount. So we didn't really gain anything, nor did Turbine give up anything with the original talks, just lateral movement.

    Glin mentioned he was pleased that the team has shifted to
    "and I for one am very pleased that the systems team has taken that direction from 'power from pain' to something more palatable, like 'rewarded for efforts.'"
    It's a funny twist on words but it's not really true. There's lots of pain, from COV grinding to Karma XP - and relatively little reward for monumental effort.

    And I have still yet to see one champion of this system who has actually done it (and not used Otto's stones). Almost universally people who have ER'ed have said it's far too much for far too little reward. But if your not going to do it yourself or haven't done it, your opinion matters little.
    Last edited by Drwaz99; 11-25-2013 at 05:24 PM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draxis View Post
    I can't speak for karma, since I started out with maxxed EDs and 6 mil karma per sphere.
    So did I, but don't see one free pass of each sphere that the system is set up to do nine passes each of to be all that great. Personally, I think the karma cost should be the same as the cost to complete one destiny in a sphere. Allowing the balance of the 6.5 million xp needed each life to be played in whatever destiny one finds most fun.

  17. #17
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Now heres a question: since you are going to eitehr play your toon or delete it, what does it matter what the cost is?

    If you are going to play it youll get CoVs over time, its not like your going to bury your toon as soon as it hits 28, are you?

    If you play your toon after epic reincarnation, youre going to get karma. If you play the toon in a certain sphere, youll sooner or later be able to get the EPL from that sphere.

    You dont want to play in a certain sphere? Well, then you wont get a past life from that spehere, simple as that.

    Whats so monumentally wrong about it, you can keep on playing you EEs and get the ability to ER sooner or later. Its what youve been doing all the time, but now, since there may be a purpose beyond just playing, its all wrong.

    The problem is not the cost, the problem is impatience.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drwaz99 View Post
    Playing a Barb in Exalted Angel Or Unyielding Sovereignty is not you playing a Cleric of Favor Soul.
    Who said it was?

    Quote Originally Posted by Drwaz99 View Post
    Come on, you need a much better argument.
    No, I'm perfectly happy with it, thanks. You get the benefits of doing X by doing X. If you don't want to do X, you don't get the benefits of X. If you want the benefits of X, you do X. It doesn't even matter what X is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drwaz99 View Post
    "Oh you don't want to re-level ED's for 2mil XP?" Ok, we'll just make you stay in the sphere and triple the XP amount.
    Math fail. 6 million is less than a third of the 20 million they were proposing we lose at first. (Lose all EDs except 1.) But who cares? I'm certainly not endorsing the asinine system they originally proposed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drwaz99 View Post
    There's lots of pain, from COV grinding to Karma XP - and relatively little reward for monumental effort.
    <snip>
    Almost universally people who have ER'ed have said it's far too much for far too little reward.
    That's pretty clear right on the face of it. The past life feats suck.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drwaz99 View Post
    But if your not going to do it yourself or haven't done it, your opinion matters little.
    I likely end up ERing within the sphere I'll be running in anyway; but I'm currently not in Epic levels, I'm knocking out some TRs.

    However, I don't expect to be handed for free past life feats from other spheres, and that has nothing to do with how much grind an ER is.

    Whether ERing is too grindy is a totally separate issue from this idea of expecting to get past lives for things you're NOT running.

    I'll have a better opinion on the grindiness of it after I've done one or two, but I have a hard time imaging anything changing my mind about the other issue.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    You dont want to play in a certain sphere? Well, then you wont get a past life from that spehere, simple as that.
    Yeah, what he said.

  20. #20
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    Now heres a question: since you are going to eitehr play your toon or delete it, what does it matter what the cost is?

    If you are going to play it youll get CoVs over time, its not like your going to bury your toon as soon as it hits 28, are you?

    If you play your toon after epic reincarnation, youre going to get karma. If you play the toon in a certain sphere, youll sooner or later be able to get the EPL from that sphere.

    You dont want to play in a certain sphere? Well, then you wont get a past life from that spehere, simple as that.

    Whats so monumentally wrong about it, you can keep on playing you EEs and get the ability to ER sooner or later. Its what youve been doing all the time, but now, since there may be a purpose beyond just playing, its all wrong.

    The problem is not the cost, the problem is impatience.
    the cost of an EHoW isn't even in the same ballpark as earning a HHoW. I prefer to play one and done as much as possible and if im looking to ER and not worrying about farming for gear, it would take 3 ERs on EH to earn enough Comms to buy an EHoW. that's if I owned Shadowfell also. its an intentional grind that was implemented. im not against Turbine making money, but it looks more and more to me they have given us one of those ultimatums of either grinding long and hard just to ER or throw down some money to do it. this is a all too familiar tactic that they have done here. theres some stuff in the store you can buy just to skip some of this hard grind. people are used to grinding out challenges and EDA for tokens in a day to heroic reincarnate, which is why I think this is one of the bigger problems a lot of people are having with this. I don't mind a little grind for hearts of wood, but it would take me weeks and weeks just to ER.

    I wont be running EE for higher drops of Comms because im leveling through off destinies also, never mind my characters have old skool epic gear that is considered good enough. for me, ill only be leveling through 2 spheres for my melees because the past lives wont do them any good really in Arcane and Divine and the pain for gain isn't worth the trouble.
    #MakeDDOGreatAgain

    You are the one choosing not to play alts.

    Casual player now investing way less than I used to into the game, playing 1-3 months at a time and still want nothing to do with Reaper. #improvepuggrouping#alldifficultiesmatter

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