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  1. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    You mean BAKING half your cake, but letting you eat just as much as them? Pretty sure it was a case of them doing the work and you reaping the benefits without doing the work.
    You're assuming (you know what they say about "assume"...) that every single person who PUGs is only interested in the quest completion XP. That's a pretty big assumption. An awful lot of people actually like to experience the content you know.

    And if DDO is "work" to you, you're doing it wrong. O.o

  2. #342
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAL View Post
    You're assuming (you know what they say about "assume"...) that every single person who PUGs is only interested in the quest completion XP. That's a pretty big assumption. An awful lot of people actually like to experience the content you know.

    And if DDO is "work" to you, you're doing it wrong. O.o
    And since so many people actually like to experience the content, it makes me wonder why it takes them more than 10 minutes to get into a 10 minute quest. If they actually liked to experience the content, wouldn't the be... experiencing the content? i.e. they'd be in the quest before someone finished half of it?
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  3. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAL View Post
    And if DDO is "work" to you, you're doing it wrong. O.o
    If you don't have fun at your work, and work at your fun, too, I submit that you are doing it wrong.

    And people who claim they want to have fun in a quest but never bother actually stepping in the quest are REALLY doing it wrong.

  4. #344
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    If you don't have fun at your work, and work at your fun, too, I submit that you are doing it wrong.

    And people who claim they want to have fun in a quest but never bother actually stepping in the quest are REALLY doing it wrong.
    Yes but the thought of people pcatting footing around outside a quest, scratching their nuts, picking their noses and being too scared of offending me to start............it makes me hard and that's fun for me..............who are you to take away my fun? You better ask for my permission to enter the quest peon!!!! And you better ask how many mobs your allowed to kill, better not kill more than me!!! Your the lower classes your there to drive and chase the game not to make the kills that's for your betters!!! Shut your trap, stay with the group and hjeal me!!!!

  5. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    And since so many people actually like to experience the content, it makes me wonder why it takes them more than 10 minutes to get into a 10 minute quest. If they actually liked to experience the content, wouldn't the be... experiencing the content? i.e. they'd be in the quest before someone finished half of it?
    Why do they have to get into the quest on your time? We are talking about the leader here - aren't they entitled to get into the quest when they are ready? Maybe if you think the PL should enter the quest immediately upon creating a LFM you should create the LFM yourself. And frankly the entire game is content, so they are also experiencing content by doing whatever they're doing outside the quest.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    If you don't have fun at your work, and work at your fun, too, I submit that you are doing it wrong.

    And people who claim they want to have fun in a quest but never bother actually stepping in the quest are REALLY doing it wrong.
    Maybe you're not aware - the vast majority of people in the world do not have the luxury of having a job they enjoy. Most people have to take whatever they can get.

    And I guess you're having a problem because you're not actually reading the thread - we're not talking about Party Leaders who put up a LFM and then NEVER enter the quest...

  6. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    SirValentine! You are griefing that poor birthday boy by baking a cake for him without asking his permission ahead of time!

    GRIEFER!!!1!
    What is poor is clearly your understanding. I already had the cake, he did nothing but destroy most of it for me and the rest of the party. If you don't care to understand how the others see things, and only care about how you perceive things to be, then i guess i'm wasting my time trying to explain some basic concepts.




    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    And since so many people actually like to experience the content, it makes me wonder why it takes them more than 10 minutes to get into a 10 minute quest. If they actually liked to experience the content, wouldn't the be... experiencing the content? i.e. they'd be in the quest before someone finished half of it?
    If it makes you wonder, why don't you ask them? And pay some attention to their reply, you might learn something knew, who knows? And if you don't like or agree with their answer, just leave the party and find another one or solo the quest.




    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    Yes but the thought of people pcatting footing around outside a quest, scratching their nuts, picking their noses and being too scared of offending me to start............it makes me hard and that's fun for me..............who are you to take away my fun? You better ask for my permission to enter the quest peon!!!! And you better ask how many mobs your allowed to kill, better not kill more than me!!! Your the lower classes your there to drive and chase the game not to make the kills that's for your betters!!! Shut your trap, stay with the group and hjeal me!!!!
    What a silly post... Exaggerating much, no? You seem very prone to offending others, btw... This must be an essential part of the griefers' mentality
    Last edited by Grecan; 12-01-2013 at 08:44 AM.
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  7. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAL View Post
    And frankly the entire game is content, so they are also experiencing content by doing whatever they're doing outside the quest.
    YES! Awesome way to look at it! It doesn't matter if the "content" of the quest is half-done when they finally get around to stepping in, because they got to enjoy the content OUTSIDE the whole time! And when the quest is done quicker, they'll have MORE time free to enjoy that outside content, too!

    So complainers, quit complaining, and either enjoy the content inside the quest by ACTUALLY GOING THERE, or enjoy the content OUTSIDE the quest. Either way, ENJOY!

    Quote Originally Posted by HAL View Post
    Maybe you're not aware - the vast majority of people in the world do not have the luxury of having a job they enjoy. Most people have to take whatever they can get.
    I'm sorry you're unable to try to find the bright side of things. Having fun at your work doesn't mean you magically landed your dream job. It's about the way you approach it.

    Quote Originally Posted by HAL View Post
    we're not talking about Party Leaders who put up a LFM and then NEVER enter the quest
    Not quite never, no. But close enough to never that they then whine about the people who, upon seeing an LFM for a quest, thought it actually indicated DOING the quest.

  8. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grecan View Post
    If you don't care to understand how the others see things, and only care about how you perceive things to be, then i guess i'm wasting my time trying to explain some basic concepts.
    I love the irony here.

  9. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    I love the irony here.
    ROFLMAO you clearly don't get it... It must have to do something with density...

    I don't fail at my understanding at all, unlike you!

    Again and again, we've mentioned that we're talking about how the leader of the party wants to run the quest... In the OP's case, s/he clearly didn't like the other person doing half the quest. So when will you guys stop saying that "you" were doing him/her a favor for doing that?


    If you and the leader agree, it's fine (bonus tip: if you're the leader, it's always fine to run quests as you like)



    I told you not to eat MY cake again, and you continue to say that you baked it... NO! Get a clue!
    Last edited by Grecan; 12-01-2013 at 08:58 AM.
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  10. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    YES! Awesome way to look at it! It doesn't matter if the "content" of the quest is half-done when they finally get around to stepping in, because they got to enjoy the content OUTSIDE the whole time! And when the quest is done quicker, they'll have MORE time free to enjoy that outside content, too!

    So complainers, quit complaining, and either enjoy the content inside the quest by ACTUALLY GOING THERE, or enjoy the content OUTSIDE the quest. Either way, ENJOY!

    I'm sorry you're unable to try to find the bright side of things. Having fun at your work doesn't mean you magically landed your dream job. It's about the way you approach it.

    Not quite never, no. But close enough to never that they then whine about the people who, upon seeing an LFM for a quest, thought it actually indicated DOING the quest.
    Are you really as uncomprehending as you seem? Really? I don't find it hard to believe that there are people this uncomprehending, but I do find it hard to believe that you're willing to illustrate it so readily.

  11. #351
    Community Member deahamlet's Avatar
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    Why is this still going on?

    The OP's question was answered.

    Pick one of the following:
    1. They are selfish.
    2. They are selfish pricks.
    3. They are so used to zerg-ing, they assume a blank LFM means zerg.
    4. They are impatient.
    5. They don't care about what the other people in the group want, are doing, etc. They just want the content completed ASAP and they are delusional enough to think a BLANK LFM is going to be FASTER THAN SOLOing. Intensely delusional.

    I don't understand the sheer delusion in some. Blank LFM is highly unlikely to be a group of veterans or experienced players splitting up and zerg-ing and invisi-zerg-ing. Highly unlikely. It's likely to be a random gathering of people of various skill and experience and interest in the game. They are likely to want buffs or not to step into wilderness alone, need directions, help, etc.

    Even if I grant you that you cannot have expectations without specifying what your expectations are... I don't get it. Mind you, our society works because we do have some tacit understandings and common courtesies and that is how faux-pas happen when we go to another culture/society. Even all of you realized that something in that society was DIFFERENT because your tacit understandings were failing to produce the result you usually got. So they do exist and for the most part work. But okay, let's say that if you do not specify something in LFM or every time someone joins group, then you cannot expect it from them.

    Given that, why would you be stupid enough to join a BLANK LFM? There is a miniscule, bordering on ZERO, chance of it being a group of vets, zergers, people of your kind. Vets I know never leave LFM blank. Never. Elite, BYOH, IP, want elite trapper, whatevers... they write stuff. So what chances are you left with? Chances that everyone else is moving slower, wants to enjoy the atmosphere, feels they need ship buffs, feels they want a party of 6 before starting to move, etc. None of the things that you claim to enjoy... you want fast XP. So unless YOU slow down, you are very likely to leave them in the dust, complete before they get there, leave them with nothing to kill... or at the very worst for you... they are going to ruin your invisi plans or plans to reduce DA by running in the wrong places, not going invis etc.
    And most of the things you are used to doing like step in and start the quest even if nobody else is in or even in the wilderness... skip optionals... run invisible... etc. All of those things have a high potential to annoy the rest of the party.

    So we are staring at a blank LFM. We are vets. We like to run fast, fast completion, don't want to send a last reply to whoever we are chatting with, we already have buffs, we don't want to wait for 6 people in party or for a healer or trapper or whathaveyou... we might or might not want optionals, to split up, invis, etc.... And we are staring at this blank LFM. And we use our little grey cells and realize that it is highly likely the people in said group will be:
    1. Not self-sufficient
    2. Want to run together
    3. Take their time
    4. Prone to dying
    and most of all ... 5. Likely to be mad if we run the quest for them, free XP or not cause they don't actually see XP as the real reward for playing.

    After realizing these things because we are not stupid (one assumes), do we REALLY go ahead and click on that blank LFM?

    The logical answer would be HELL NO.

    Unless you want to adapt your play-style to whatever a group of random 5 desires, plan to actually communicate to see what is going to happen... it is a stupid idea to join. You are either going to annoy yourself or annoy the others in a very high likelihood.

    You join when you're not thinking right or when you really really don't care if you are griefing the kind of people that would put up a blank LFM.
    You cannot possibly be a sensible thinking human being and tell me you join blank LFMs and think you are highly likely to meet 5 other veteran zergers of your SAME brand of zerging. I zerg, I hate invisi-zerg because murdering mobs is my favourite hobby.

    So then explain to me what kind of brain-dead day were you having that you decided to join a blank LFM and proceeded to step into the quest without a hello, what's the pace, where are you guys in the chat and were SURPRISED the rest of the party was mad you almost finished the quest FOR them?

    As to the cake analogy... people who see content as the end reward still will see it as EATING CAKE when they get to kill and procure XP through their efforts. People who just want XP and completionist and whatever other reward fast leveling gives you, will see the running through the quest as MAKING THE CAKE and XP as the eating of the cake.
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  12. #352
    Community Member Alistina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rush007 View Post
    I do a lot of pugging in the lfm channel and I've been seeing a lot of this lately. Group forms up, gets to quest and someone already has stepped in and is halfway done with the quest. Hasn't been like the group forming has taken 30 minutes to get there, or getting people to join took a long time. I really don't see a point of that person joining the group, then soloing. Been adding these players to a list to not invite to groups again but its been growing rapidly. Is there something wrong with group play? I call them out on it jokingly but they don't change.

    I've notice multi life TR's, FVS, monks are prime candidates for this behavior. Most don't say a word and I can't see this not helping the game in the perspective of new players. What do they think when they run into people like this? How many are going to stay if they don't get to play? It's a very strange culture. It's rampant 1-20 because of the lifelong TR players that yes have run the content 200 times but this isn't there group. It ruins the game indirectly by not letting the other 5 group members participate.
    Next time just put 'no zergers please' in your lfm when you want to flower sniff the quests.

    Of late, I just solo stuff I actually like, and hence don't wish to zerg. For the quests I don't like, I join lfms...and every one I join runs it the way you have described, irrespective of the classes. Its mostly because 1-20 quests are really simple for multi TRs, and then for people who tend to farm quests, they must've have run each quest so so so so many times over, that they just wanna get them over with

  13. #353
    Community Member Teh_Ghoul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deahamlet View Post
    Why is this still going on?

    The OP's question was answered.

    Pick one of the following:
    1. They are selfish.
    2. They are selfish pricks.
    3. They are so used to zerg-ing, they assume a blank LFM means zerg.
    4. They are impatient.
    5. They don't care about what the other people in the group want, are doing, etc. They just want the content completed ASAP and they are delusional enough to think a BLANK LFM is going to be FASTER THAN SOLOing. Intensely delusional.

    I don't understand the sheer delusion in some. Blank LFM is highly unlikely to be a group of veterans or experienced players splitting up and zerg-ing and invisi-zerg-ing. Highly unlikely. It's likely to be a random gathering of people of various skill and experience and interest in the game. They are likely to want buffs or not to step into wilderness alone, need directions, help, etc.

    Even if I grant you that you cannot have expectations without specifying what your expectations are... I don't get it. Mind you, our society works because we do have some tacit understandings and common courtesies and that is how faux-pas happen when we go to another culture/society. Even all of you realized that something in that society was DIFFERENT because your tacit understandings were failing to produce the result you usually got. So they do exist and for the most part work. But okay, let's say that if you do not specify something in LFM or every time someone joins group, then you cannot expect it from them.

    Given that, why would you be stupid enough to join a BLANK LFM? There is a miniscule, bordering on ZERO, chance of it being a group of vets, zergers, people of your kind. Vets I know never leave LFM blank. Never. Elite, BYOH, IP, want elite trapper, whatevers... they write stuff. So what chances are you left with? Chances that everyone else is moving slower, wants to enjoy the atmosphere, feels they need ship buffs, feels they want a party of 6 before starting to move, etc. None of the things that you claim to enjoy... you want fast XP. So unless YOU slow down, you are very likely to leave them in the dust, complete before they get there, leave them with nothing to kill... or at the very worst for you... they are going to ruin your invisi plans or plans to reduce DA by running in the wrong places, not going invis etc.
    And most of the things you are used to doing like step in and start the quest even if nobody else is in or even in the wilderness... skip optionals... run invisible... etc. All of those things have a high potential to annoy the rest of the party.

    So we are staring at a blank LFM. We are vets. We like to run fast, fast completion, don't want to send a last reply to whoever we are chatting with, we already have buffs, we don't want to wait for 6 people in party or for a healer or trapper or whathaveyou... we might or might not want optionals, to split up, invis, etc.... And we are staring at this blank LFM. And we use our little grey cells and realize that it is highly likely the people in said group will be:
    1. Not self-sufficient
    2. Want to run together
    3. Take their time
    4. Prone to dying
    and most of all ... 5. Likely to be mad if we run the quest for them, free XP or not cause they don't actually see XP as the real reward for playing.

    After realizing these things because we are not stupid (one assumes), do we REALLY go ahead and click on that blank LFM?

    The logical answer would be HELL NO.

    Unless you want to adapt your play-style to whatever a group of random 5 desires, plan to actually communicate to see what is going to happen... it is a stupid idea to join. You are either going to annoy yourself or annoy the others in a very high likelihood.

    You join when you're not thinking right or when you really really don't care if you are griefing the kind of people that would put up a blank LFM.
    You cannot possibly be a sensible thinking human being and tell me you join blank LFMs and think you are highly likely to meet 5 other veteran zergers of your SAME brand of zerging. I zerg, I hate invisi-zerg because murdering mobs is my favourite hobby.

    So then explain to me what kind of brain-dead day were you having that you decided to join a blank LFM and proceeded to step into the quest without a hello, what's the pace, where are you guys in the chat and were SURPRISED the rest of the party was mad you almost finished the quest FOR them?

    As to the cake analogy... people who see content as the end reward still will see it as EATING CAKE when they get to kill and procure XP through their efforts. People who just want XP and completionist and whatever other reward fast leveling gives you, will see the running through the quest as MAKING THE CAKE and XP as the eating of the cake.
    They should adapt to me and l2p

  14. #354
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Ghoul View Post
    They should adapt to me and l2p
    /signed.

  15. #355
    Community Member FlaviusMaximus's Avatar
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    When I first saw this thread pop up I thought, "Well this will give the forumites something to argue over for a couple days."

    One week, 18 pages, and going strong. The folks here love to debate almost as much as they love to repeat themselves. Way to give 'em what they want, OP.

  16. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaviusMaximus View Post
    When I first saw this thread pop up I thought, "Well this will give the forumites something to argue over for a couple days."

    One week, 18 pages, and going strong. The folks here love to debate almost as much as they love to repeat themselves. Way to give 'em what they want, OP.
    lol, right
    I want to say this one thing that i didn't say before (and probably no-one else, either)


    The ones who play slowly and want to fully experience the game content are usually new players, and the ones who rush through quests are usually old players who have seen that content many-many times and it's stopped giving them a thrill anymore.

    I think that DDO needs new players, or at least new players are good for the game. And so everyone who likes this game and wants it to prosper, should try to attract new players, or try to keep them playing, or at least try to avoid bringing them one step closer to leaving DDO. At least i think that's the sensible thing to do.

    Personally, when i was a total noob, i was helped by many vets in various ways, and i'm grateful to them. I remember trying to "break-even" with one of them, and gettiing him to tell me that he didn't want/need me to "pay" him back, but i should instead cater to the new players, like he had helped me...
    And it's not just because he told me so, but that reinforced my attitude, that i try to help new palyers enjoy this wondeful game (which Turbine often screws up :P lol)
    If i haven't responded to your post, it doesn't necessarily mean that i don't have counter-arguments, it might simply mean that i don't want to keep feeding the trolls.
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  17. #357
    Community Member Uidolon's Avatar
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    why does nobody meantion the big pink elephant in the room = the fact we have a player who CAN solo zerg the quest without the other 5 (and the fact its good exp/loot for him to do so at x difficulty). is it time that turbine use the XXXXL nerf hammer they had in their closet for the last 4 years and always been to afraid to use.

    what do you do once your character are so damn overpowered that you dont need a team first wolrd problem nr 34 right below nr 33 burning yourself on your hot coffe

  18. #358
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    I thought that this was simply how everyone plays DDO these days.

    There's nothing selfish about getting your whole group faster exp. If someone can solo a quest fast in a full group then let them and don't whine when your getting free exp for piking.

    If this is such a big problem for anyone, then there are two easy solutions:

    - Specify 'No zergers, wait for full group, stick together' in your LFMs
    - Or simply keep up with the zerg.

    If your LFM specifies no such specific criteria, and especially more its an elite BB heroic quest group, then it is automatically considers a zerg rush to complete BB quests asap and get as much XP as possible.

    When making groups, I don't even wait for anyone now. I throw up the LFM, get ship buffs, grab a hireling and start with or without others. If players join then great, the quests get finished faster. If not then I make my best effort soloing, even if I lose its still better than standing around waiting and doing nothing, and I still get some EXP from optionals.

    I never specify 'TRs / Vets only' or 'No first timers' because I don't want new players to be excluded. They can join, get a quest share, find the quest, step in and do whatever they want. They can die in every trap too, its more amusing and at least they're getting to play. I don't even run BYOH groups because I'll mostly always be running with a hireling that can heal unless its someone elses BYOH group.

  19. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    First, I have to agree that it's rude to join somebody else's LFM, then start zerging away before "the guy with the star" even opens the quest. Yes, it's probably due to a "show off mentality" more than a "here, let me help you" mentality.

    As others have noted, use the LFM comments section to say more than just "Elite." Notes like "no zerging," "stay together" and (with some exceptions like Tear of Drahkon or Delera's p2) "all opts" will be like garlic to vampires and keep away most of those you want to avoid - I say most because every game has that segment of the population that needs to grief others in order to have fun, and causing disappointment by having the quest complete shortly after the last guy steps in (so they can't participate) or "better yet" completing the quest before all party members step in and by doing so cause drama, that's what they live for.

    As for why the (non-griefer) speedsters go so fast, it's like Mario Bros. era games w/o a save feature. When you want to get to the end levels, you fly though the early ones. No need to squat on every pipe 'cause you already know which ones go somewhere and which ones don't.

    unfortunately, in my experience half (or more) of the people doesn't read the lfm's , at least when they're up for zerging. Sometimes i don't mind the zerges, sometimes i do, but i couldnt come up with a solution. I put a lot of "no zerg", "play in group" and they join anyways, a lot of times. HAven't tried the "all opts", that could be a good one.
    When we didn't have the xp penalty for being late in the quest, it's understandable if one says that's trying to help everyone with a faster completion, but now, it's just about show off or the fact that people is really selfish IMO.

  20. #360
    Community Member Teh_Ghoul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harry-pancreas View Post
    unfortunately, in my experience half (or more) of the people doesn't read the lfm's , at least when they're up for zerging. Sometimes i don't mind the zerges, sometimes i do, but i couldnt come up with a solution. I put a lot of "no zerg", "play in group" and they join anyways, a lot of times. HAven't tried the "all opts", that could be a good one.
    When we didn't have the xp penalty for being late in the quest, it's understandable if one says that's trying to help everyone with a faster completion, but now, it's just about show off or the fact that people is really selfish IMO.
    Wait you actually got an xp penalty? What in the world were you doing? Were you playing the game or trying to grief people that wanted to play the game and made the mistake of joining your group and hearing you say wait up wait up wait up.

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