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  1. #1
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    Default Caster weapons again being ignored

    It's nice that you're revamping random loot for melee weapons, but caster weapons are in just as bad shape, if not worse, and a revamp is necessary. As it is, the large majority of caster weapons are vendor trash that people don't wnat, and what people do want is an extremely limited subset with no variety.


    • Match the lore type suffix with the spellpower prefix. For thaumaturgy staves, choose one of the spellpower prefix.
    • Add arcane/divine/{school type} augmentation as a possible attribute, up to +2 or +3.
    • Instead or removing parrying from the game, add it to the suffix list of caster weapons.
    • Lesser maximize, empower, etc - where did these attributes go? They were on loot post-U14 and seem to have disappeared.
    • Make caster kamas and shortswords more available for monk splashes. We don't need a huge variety of different weapon types for caster weapons. Alternatively, change scepters to centered monk weapons along with orbs.
    • Remove two-handed non-thaumaturgy caster weapons.

  2. #2
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    I kinda disagree with your first point.

    I like my Corrosion scepter of Fire Lore with a Red slotted Combustion for Hellball.

    What they should do is the next 2 steps:

    1) Remove the possibility to have opposite spellpower/lore on the same item. I.e:

    Corrosion of Electric Lore
    Magnetism of Corrosion Lore
    Glaciation of Fire Lore
    Combustion of Ice Lore.

    These should all disappear.


    2) Give better chance to have matching Spellpower and lore, this I agree with.


    I also don't understand why you want Parrying on a caster stick. It's already hard to find a good Spellpower/Lore item, we don't need another useless suffix to the grind.

    On the other things, I agree.
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  3. #3
    Community Member Saravis's Avatar
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    -Readjust Spell Lore so Twilight and Flawless Blue Dragon are worth pursuing.

  4. #4
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    I kinda disagree with your first point.

    I like my Corrosion scepter of Fire Lore with a Red slotted Combustion for Hellball.

    What they should do is the next 2 steps:

    1) Remove the possibility to have opposite spellpower/lore on the same item. I.e:

    Corrosion of Electric Lore
    Magnetism of Corrosion Lore
    Glaciation of Fire Lore
    Combustion of Ice Lore.

    These should all disappear.


    2) Give better chance to have matching Spellpower and lore, this I agree with.


    I also don't understand why you want Parrying on a caster stick. It's already hard to find a good Spellpower/Lore item, we don't need another useless suffix to the grind.

    On the other things, I agree.
    Most of the useless suffixes come from mismatching spellpower lore types. Parrying is decent (+6 and above) because the only other parrying slot is bracers, and competes with +20 kinetic lore in the same slot. That said, it's a minor issue compared to the mismatching spellpower and lack of old suffixes, which we agree on.

  5. #5
    Community Member Kayla93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicmew View Post
    • make caster kamas and shortswords more available for monk splashes. We don't need a huge variety of different weapon types for caster weapons. Alternatively, change scepters to centered monk weapons along with orbs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Saravis View Post
    -Readjust Spell Lore so Twilight and Flawless Blue Dragon are worth pursuing.
    This.

  6. #6
    The Hatchery Fefnir_2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    It's nice that you're revamping random loot for melee weapons, but caster weapons are in just as bad shape, if not worse, and a revamp is necessary. As it is, the large majority of caster weapons are vendor trash that people don't wnat, and what people do want is an extremely limited subset with no variety.


    • Match the lore type suffix with the spellpower prefix. For thaumaturgy staves, choose one of the spellpower prefix.


    • Add arcane/divine/{school type} augmentation as a possible attribute, up to +2 or +3.
    • Instead or removing parrying from the game, add it to the suffix list of caster weapons.
    • Lesser maximize, empower, etc - where did these attributes go? They were on loot post-U14 and seem to have disappeared.
    • Make caster kamas and shortswords more available for monk splashes. We don't need a huge variety of different weapon types for caster weapons. Alternatively, change scepters to centered monk weapons along with orbs.
    • Remove two-handed non-thaumaturgy caster weapons.
    I definitely agree with this. Ideally, thaumaturgy would have a chance to generate with spell lores for both of its spellpowers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza
    1) Remove the possibility to have opposite spellpower/lore on the same item. I.e:

    Corrosion of Electric Lore
    Magnetism of Corrosion Lore
    Glaciation of Fire Lore
    Combustion of Ice Lore.

    These should all disappear.
    This I can't agree with, simply because as a wizard I still spec for Fire/Ice and I don't mind it if my lores are on the wrong stick, as long as I have them. One of the nice problems about DDO's diverse builds is that it's almost impossible to find a combination of effects that is totally useless to 100% of the player population. However, I think there's a few matchups that could be removed with only a modicum of complaining from the player base:


    • Negative and Reconstruction spell effects shouldn't be on the same item
    • or Light matched up with Reconstruction, Acid, Electric, or Ice
    • Positive with Reconstruction
    • Sonic with Positive (Does anyone other than bards use Sonic spellpower anymore?)
    Honkin * Diaari * Bazongas


  7. #7
    Community Member Toro12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    I kinda disagree with your first point.

    I like my Corrosion scepter of Fire Lore with a Red slotted Combustion for Hellball.

    What they should do is the next 2 steps:

    1) Remove the possibility to have opposite spellpower/lore on the same item. I.e:

    Corrosion of Electric Lore
    Magnetism of Corrosion Lore
    Glaciation of Fire Lore
    Combustion of Ice Lore.

    These should all disappear.


    2) Give better chance to have matching Spellpower and lore, this I agree with.


    I also don't understand why you want Parrying on a caster stick. It's already hard to find a good Spellpower/Lore item, we don't need another useless suffix to the grind.

    On the other things, I agree.
    Your idea of removing opposing element/lore sticks is too sorcerer centric.
    My wizard has a combustion of ice lore (with slotted impulse) that he is terribly happy with. It was exactly what I needed and then some ( with masterful craft I got more power than I should have)

    If there is any one thing I'd like to see with caster items that is the removal of potency. That is a worthless addition to any item.

    Adding the occasional caster +skill to weapons wouldn't be horrible. Other than spell sight that is. A devotion of sustenance or a resonance of perform.
    Would need to keep it limited to the casting skills though. A combustion of swimming or corrosion of springing sticks littering up end reward witha would stink

  8. #8
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toro12 View Post
    Your idea of removing opposing element/lore sticks is too sorcerer centric.
    My wizard has a combustion of ice lore (with slotted impulse) that he is terribly happy with. It was exactly what I needed and then some ( with masterful craft I got more power than I should have)
    True that.

    But I stand my idea that the opposite combinations should have lesser drop rates simply because they are lesser wanted.

    What we all really want is matching Spellpower on casters hence the upgrade of their drop rates.

    @Fefnir: exactly. If you have 2 sticks with matching Spell power (Combustion of Fire lore and Glaciation of Ice lore in your case) then it wouldn't matter at all.
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  9. #9
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    I don't see this at all. For starters, new loot gen caster items are so good they have trivialized the preeminent raid caster weapon in the game (twilight). Note that this hasn't happened to melee. And while I agree that they should remove random combinations that don't in any way appeal, this is no different than melee weapons with stupid combinations like holy of elemental bane. If you argument was that Twilight should be improved to bring it in line with the new VASTLY improved loot gen caster items then I 100% agree. Or that we need new named caster weapons (1 handed preferably), then again I agree. Or if your point were that nothing should drop in loot gen that nobody would ever craft for themselves then I would agree in principle (though it might ruin the game, so /disagree), or if your point was that casters need a boost because in EE neither DC casting or nuking are viable anymore then I'd agree. But as the thread stands...remember that spell power got a huge boost, spell lore got a boost, spell DCs got a HUGE boost with focus V items now in loot gen, so much so that twilight is no longer wanted, so..

    /not signed

  10. #10
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    All I see is a generation of new gamers who think everything they pull should be uber. "whats the point of anything that's not Uber" over and over.

    "make all spell casting implements perfect and no longer random"

    What the hell? You guys realize that the perfect combo is supposed to be rare, and making them all drop perfect removes any uncertainty/discovery/challenge in getting them?

    Just another example of the player base having a REALLY bad idea of whats best for them. IMO anything the DDO player base on the forums says against random loot should be taken by the Dev's as the opposite thing to do.

    Hey Why stop there: every undead bane should have Holy and silver. Every Smiter should have Adamantine, even better take all the weapons out of the game and only drop Khopeshes. Long Bows and Repeaters.

    Hey why stop there, have every chest give a +10 Holly X of Everything Bane and everything insta kill, with 142 Potency and 20% Arcane Lore, everything augmentation and eveything Focus XXMLV and make it transmute from a Khopesh to a Repeater or long Bow at will. We can get rid of all the other items in the game that will be fun.

    I feel sorry for modern game developers as the current generation of game players seem to have no idea why things work the way they do in games.
    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    You can't possibly design good gameplay if excitement unpredictability and unknowns are NOT ALLOWED because they confuse some players who want everything cut and dried and spelled out for them.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fefnir_2011 View Post
    • or Light matched up with Reconstruction, Acid, Electric, or Ice
    • Positive with Reconstruction
    • Sonic with Positive (Does anyone other than bards use Sonic spellpower anymore?)
    Nope nope nope... Stop.

    I have a Bladeforged melee FvS that uses reconstruct and has both repair and heal skill (and augments), devotion and reconstruction (admittedly I don't bother with lore), just because you don't see a need for it doesn't mean someone else can't find a way to use it (BTW I use the SLA because it's more efficient for my self heals, causes a nice haste boost and doesn't put my heal spell on cooldown for use on fleshies, I heal WF and fleshie party members with equal potency)

    Ditto Light and Recon.

    Druids have light and Electric and cold and even Acid, so again nope nope nope.

    Finally Shiradi and fatsinger have multiple Sonic procs. My Shiradi casters have ranks in perform, a perform skill augment, and max sonic spell power and lore. My Bard with Sorc splash shiradi REALLY does not like your suggestions, my Wiz Shiradi doesn't either.

    Finally my Druid REALLY hates your suggestions: Shiradi, light spells, positive healing spells, electric, cold, fire, sonic, AND uses Forced escape. LOL.
    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    You can't possibly design good gameplay if excitement unpredictability and unknowns are NOT ALLOWED because they confuse some players who want everything cut and dried and spelled out for them.

  12. #12
    The Hatchery Fefnir_2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    Nope nope nope... Stop.
    as I said above:

    Quote Originally Posted by Fefnir_2011
    One of the nice problems about DDO's diverse builds is that it's almost impossible to find a combination of effects that is totally useless to 100% of the player population.
    All I was suggesting was that, by removing lesser used permutations from the loot pool, we could raise the "most usable" percentage of loot overall. You would still be able to slot reconstruction into a red augment on a devotion item; you just wouldn't be able to get reconstruction and devotion mismatched on items anymore. I could really care less if they removed these items, especially if SOMEONE is getting some use out of them. My only thought was of pure optimization. What's the point in having an item drop if no one (or only 1% of the player population) is using it? It may as well not exist at that point.

    As far as your druid and shiradi, sorry; I don't play either of those, I still play old school DC wizards and favored souls like the dinosaur I am.
    Honkin * Diaari * Bazongas


  13. #13
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    Hey I get it, but I think instead of making odd combo's impossible simply make them less likely... the problem then immediately becomes:

    Ghostbane

    No seriously when 2 or 3 out of ten drops are perfect fire/fire or Cold/cold etc. then just like ghostbane (or "deadly of accuracy") the items become plentiful and overflow the AH. You see "perfect roll" random loot for sale for 4000pp

    In summery: the best reason to not optimize this is ghostbane.

    Learn to love random... it's the main reason you aren't bored. Chaos is the uncertainty that makes waking up every day a new experience. And in the case of games: keeps them from being predictable slogs.
    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    You can't possibly design good gameplay if excitement unpredictability and unknowns are NOT ALLOWED because they confuse some players who want everything cut and dried and spelled out for them.

  14. #14
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    No.

    There needs to be a chance you get Combustion of Fire Lore. A chance. Not a guarantee, not a great chance.

    Otherwise, all caster loot that drops will be "good".

    That's boring.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  15. #15
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    All I see is a generation of new gamers who think everything they pull should be uber. "whats the point of anything that's not Uber" over and over.

    "make all spell casting implements perfect and no longer random"

    What the hell? You guys realize that the perfect combo is supposed to be rare, and making them all drop perfect removes any uncertainty/discovery/challenge in getting them?
    From a game balance standpoint, I understand wanting to make 99% of all weapons vendor trash, but it really bothers me from a game lore standpoint. If someone is going to make a really nice +Combustion item, then it would make sense for that weapon crafter to put +Fire Lore on the item. Mixing effects is just silly from a design standpoint and it bothers me that there are some weapon forges somewhere pumping out nonsense weapons that are only useful for whatever the Coin Lords do with all of the trash weapons that they buy from adventurers.
    No one in the world ever gets what they want
    And that is beautiful
    Everybody dies frustrated and sad
    And that is beautiful

  16. #16
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    All I see is a generation of new gamers who think everything they pull should be uber. "whats the point of anything that's not Uber" over and over.
    It's great that you enjoy grinding out thousands of chest pulls and still never getting the prefix/suffix combination that you want. You're in the minority though. Also, that's not how DDO has ever worked before. Before, we had end game loot with static attributes. You ran 20 raids and you had a high probability of getting the exact item you want. As it is, there is maybe a dozen or so perfect shiradi thaumaturgy sticks in the entire game, across all servers. This wouldn't be nearly so bad if it wasn't for a large percentage of players going after the same combination, because it makes every other combination worth so much less.

    Also, your condescending "new generation" quip is hilarious, considering how ironic it is. Complaining about new this and new that, get off my lawn, but you're the one still playing a game that has become almost completely P2W/microtransactions.

  17. #17
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post
    No.

    There needs to be a chance you get Combustion of Fire Lore. A chance. Not a guarantee, not a great chance.

    Otherwise, all caster loot that drops will be "good".

    That's boring.
    U19 has been out for how long now?

    How many +150 Spellpower (because I'm sure you know Spellpower goes up to 150 as of now, right?) of 21% matching lore have you seen? ZERO. That's the number. I want the chance to be actually true. I've been farming every single high level chest since Shadowfail with a +2 Jewel on and I haven't even pulled a +14x Spellpower of 21% matching lore.

    Also, why the heck would a caster need to grind out a Random gen loot when every melee runs with Sireth, eSoS, Cleaver, Celestias, Antipode, Agony? And you got a choice of 2 of them FOR FREE. Give us 4 named Scepter with 150 SP of 21% matching lore and then you can do whatever the F you want with Random gen sticks.

    To the guy who complains about the "new generation of gamers": yup, I feel bad also cause you are one of them that has no idea of the game whatsoever. As Mew said, NOONE likes to grind thousands of random chests for a 0.000000000001% to pull the perfect caster stick.

    We already said this million of times: PLAYERS DO NOT LIKE GRINDING RANDOM GEN LOOT.
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  18. #18
    Community Member HuneyMunster's Avatar
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    Staffs could become more useful if they have the combined properties of 2 scepters, such as Staff of Fire and Lightning having Magnetism and Combustion with Fire and Lightning lore and Staff of Death and Destruction having Nullification and Combustion with their lore.


    It would also be nice to see Evocation and Necromancy focus etc added on loot-gen jewelry and clothing such as Charismatic of Evocation.

  19. #19
    Community Member HuneyMunster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post

    We already said this million of times: PLAYERS DO NOT LIKE GRINDING RANDOM GEN LOOT.
    In my opinion random loot gen should be place holder items until you can get an improved named version of the item you are using.

  20. #20
    2016 DDO Players Council Jeromio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    1) Remove the possibility to have opposite spellpower/lore on the same item. I.e:

    Corrosion of Electric Lore
    Magnetism of Corrosion Lore
    Glaciation of Fire Lore
    Combustion of Ice Lore.

    These should all disappear.
    NO! My archmages would cry! What exactly is wrong with these combinations (I can see sorc savants don't want them... but for everyone else)?
    Proud officer of Spellbinders: http://spellbinders.shivtr.com/
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