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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    As we have seen with U14 and U19, random loot changes generally don't break cannith crafting, except by ML.
    On the contrary, every single lootgen prefix<=>suffix change has changed its corresponding cannith crafting shard. (eg: Natural Armor)

  2. #42
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flavilandile View Post
    You can't just rollback in the old loot, and be done with it ?
    IIRC, the problem was that the old loot tables could not generate high enough level gear (The cap was 31 or something like that). Thus, with the raise of the level cap, they need new tables able to go up with the higher EE chests, plus all possible bonus available.

    So, if you were on EE Storm Horns, on a loot weekend, and using a jewel of fortune, you had the risk of the tables going back to khortos-level reward or some other kind of arcane aberration (like mimicing a specific chest loot, like a quest key)
    Main: Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist [<o>]

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    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

  3. #43
    Community Member OverlordOfRats's Avatar
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    My question with metaline becoming a suffix is "What happens to those of us with Metaline of Pure Good weapons?".

    Do we suffer Burden of Guilt because metaline used to be a prefix and is now a suffix?

    I do not know what Burden was suppose to fix. I do know that I have characters(alts that have not been fixed yet) with Cannith Crafted items suffering from it even though the item was the correct level when put on. My only option on some of those items is to remake them. I cannot put on master craftsman or more potential because the items are over potential now.

  4. #44
    Community Member jakeelala's Avatar
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    THE ONLY REASON PEOPLE WANTED THE OLD LOOT AFFIXES BACK WAS FOR THE BEST ONES:

    -OBSCENTITY
    -1000 SUNS
    -MANGLING
    -PHLEBOMOTOMIZING


    ETC


    You have blatantly left all of those out (or left them off the list).

    YOU ALSO LEFT OFF HEALING AMP, LITERALLY THE ONLY OTHER THING ANYONE CARES ABOUT BESIDES THE ABOVEMENTIONED BUNDLED MODS.

    No one cares about most of the things on this list. THey wanted a chance at the interesting fun, worthwhile top level mods.

    Serves me right for getting excited. The only saving grace here is that you wrote this:

    " The first pass on increasing the available mutations for Randomly Generated Weapons is now on Lamannia. (Details will see further adjustment in the future.)"

    Please tell me you have a plan for the rest and I'll shut up.

  5. #45
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    What about casters suffix/prefix?

    From here:

    1) Remove the possibility to have opposite spellpower/lore on the same item. I.e:

    Corrosion of Electric Lore
    Magnetism of Corrosion Lore
    Glaciation of Fire Lore
    Combustion of Ice Lore.

    These should all disappear.


    2) Give better chance to have matching Spellpower and lore.
    3) Add arcane/divine/{school type} augmentation as a possible attribute, up to +2 or +3.
    4) Bring back Lesser maximize, empower, etc.
    5) Make caster kamas and shortswords more available for monk splashes.
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  6. #46
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=skaught78;5179099]/signed

    As far as metalline turning into a suffix, I'd rather see metalline and aligned be variable, uniquely being the only two things that could be a prefix or a suffix. Of course, you could raise the ML them to compensate for a weapon that has both of those on it. How cool would it be to have both of those on a weapon?
    QUOTE]

    What exactly would be the point of a weapon with both Metalline and Aligned ?

    sure you could break DR but, your going to be dealing only base damage of the weapon.

    There really are not that many monsters with DR that must be bypassed to make this worth it especially if you raise the ML.

    Raising the ML on anything without adding damage is absolute trash.

  7. #47
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    My feedback...

    Lots of junk like seeker being put back in that is useless and the modified banes are just mind bogglingly badly designed.
    Proud Recipient of At least 8 Negative Rep From NA Threads.
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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakeelala View Post
    THE ONLY REASON PEOPLE WANTED THE OLD LOOT AFFIXES BACK WAS FOR THE BEST ONES:

    -OBSCENTITY
    -1000 SUNS
    -MANGLING
    -PHLEBOMOTOMIZING


    ETC


    You have blatantly left all of those out (or left them off the list).

    YOU ALSO LEFT OFF HEALING AMP, LITERALLY THE ONLY OTHER THING ANYONE CARES ABOUT BESIDES THE ABOVEMENTIONED BUNDLED MODS.

    No one cares about most of the things on this list. THey wanted a chance at the interesting fun, worthwhile top level mods.

    Serves me right for getting excited. The only saving grace here is that you wrote this:

    " The first pass on increasing the available mutations for Randomly Generated Weapons is now on Lamannia. (Details will see further adjustment in the future.)"

    Please tell me you have a plan for the rest and I'll shut up.
    You forgot in the other thread that DrOctothorpe said they were still working on Motu affixes...

  9. #49
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    This is all good and well, but I would much prefer if you spent zero time on random loot and all your time fixing up the named loot - both new and old.

    We can get random loot anywhere, anytime. Give us a reason to actually run dungeons.

    Last night for a challenge I decided to kit out my level 22 WF FVS. In about 15 minutes I ended up with the following from the auction house (having spent maybe 100k plat in total):

    Deadly VI + Inner Focus 15, Charisma 7 + Resist 5, Wise 7 + Nat Armor 6, Fortitude 105% + Speed VII, Dexterity 7 + Seeker VIII, Armor 9 + False Life 30, Health 7 + Protect 6, Deathblock Docent + Rapid Strikes (there is a named Docent at 22 but other gear covers most of what that offers).

    I even had a Belt and Ring slot free and couldnt think of what I needed, so I crafted a Devotion 66 of Heal +10 ring and Jump +15 belt.

    I'd love to know how much effort I would have to go through to replace all of this.


    Yes, this is gear not weapons - but I also ended up with random weapons too. Acid IV + Bloodletter III is a nice one. Holy + Radiance is a nice one. I still have an old Metalline for DR breaking. Acid of Disruption for Undead, Flaming Burst of Smiting for Constructs. And so on.

    The really sad thing is how cheap all these items are.
    Last edited by Jasparion; 11-23-2013 at 06:11 PM.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanngiostr View Post

    What exactly would be the point of a weapon with both Metalline and Aligned ?

    sure you could break DR but, your going to be dealing only base damage of the weapon.

    There really are not that many monsters with DR that must be bypassed to make this worth it especially if you raise the ML.

    Raising the ML on anything without adding damage is absolute trash.
    Yeah you got a point, i wasn't thinking of drastically raising ML.

    I guess I'd like it because there's a few quests with varied mobs with varied DR. Sometimes i think it would take longer to switch between weapons numerous times than it would to just run in swinging with something that'll break all DR. Of course, I'm done with all my melee lives (for the most part), so it wouldn't be that cool anymore. But I wouldn't have minded having something like that on a few of my lives. I still can't figure out how to get both the brahlanis and ghaels in RWTD. I also usually made weapons with Red augment slots, and force ritual, which isn't a huge boost to damage, but combined with metalline and aligned may have been usefull here and there.

  11. #51
    Community Member Rhysem's Avatar
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    So I'm "that guy" in my group of developers at work, who tends to have the kinda crazy ideas. On the other hand, they often work, so maybe they aren't so crazy.

    Anyway, point here is; ddo devs are trying to remake the loot system. That's great and all, but you know what disappoints me the most about the ddo loot system? The whole prefix-of-suffix thing in the first place. If you look at the 3.0/3.5 rules, which is what ddo when created was most closely based on, the way you generate weapons (and everything else) isn't prefix-suffix. Its +thing. You want a flaming holy sword? You go girl! Totally possible.

    In ddo... not so much. Flaming of pure good, sure, I suppose. But it isn't the same thing. Nor does it allow you to have flaming lightning swords or similar. I see that you (the ddo devs) are adding that with some of the rare "special" prefixes -- and that's great and all, but...

    What about just tearing the system apart and letting it slap enchant after enchant on an item as it eats up the budget, like would (sorta) happen in pen and paper?

  12. #52
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    IIRC, the problem was that the old loot tables could not generate high enough level gear (The cap was 31 or something like that). Thus, with the raise of the level cap, they need new tables able to go up with the higher EE chests, plus all possible bonus available.

    So, if you were on EE Storm Horns, on a loot weekend, and using a jewel of fortune, you had the risk of the tables going back to khortos-level reward or some other kind of arcane aberration (like mimicing a specific chest loot, like a quest key)
    Under the old system, getting to level 32 loot would just result in receiving level 31 loot. Was possible to get well over 31 for a while, as for most of MotU, two chests in epic ADQ1 were bugged and gave (according to my testing) +8 loot level.
    I don't have a zerging problem.

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  13. #53
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    Default Conflicting elemental schools need to be done away with

    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    What about casters suffix/prefix?

    From here:

    1) Remove the possibility to have opposite spellpower/lore on the same item. I.e:

    Corrosion of Electric Lore
    Magnetism of Corrosion Lore
    Glaciation of Fire Lore
    Combustion of Ice Lore.

    These should all disappear.


    2) Give better chance to have matching Spellpower and lore.
    3) Add arcane/divine/{school type} augmentation as a possible attribute, up to +2 or +3.
    4) Bring back Lesser maximize, empower, etc.
    5) Make caster kamas and shortswords more available for monk splashes.

    Yeah, those conflicting elemental schools need to be done away with in random loot, it just doesn't make sense. Having Corrosion of fire lore would work because you could equip a Combustion item of Acid lore in the other hand to get both. But things that negate each other??

    I also think Daggers, Kamas, as well as non repeating X-bows and most blunt weapons need some serious love if you want people to use their enhancements and pick those specializations.

  14. #54
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    Default Glad you are working on this, but some things are strange

    Thanks for working on this devs, and communicating what you are doing to have us work with you in getting really nice loot that offers nice effects but isn't overpowered. It shouldn't be meh either though.

    The bane effects - I feel that they are pretty weak for the ML they have. Good to see them bundled, because before you really had too many weapons to carry around if you wanted to be covered for most enemies. Not sure magical beasts fit with natural, but there you are. I think that it was a nice idea to have ghost touch and undead bane integrated into ghost bane, it makes ghostbane interesting to take. With these banes there is nothing alike, would you consider getting something special like disruption etc. into these effects, at least on any named items that have such banes (this would make the named better choice over same lvl random, as they should)

    Will there be a dragonbane available separately? Even if its only on a named weapon that would be cool.

    A big question is about all the effects you have included but are mentioned with "(targeted to be removed with the next Lamannia build)" Why??

    If the remark is there to let us know that you might consider keeping them in if players rally for (some of) them enough to convince you, I am fine with that. Please let us know so we can do that.
    Alternatively, I would be fine with making most of these into augments for one of the next builds, so that we can add them to slotted items.

    Oh, and where are things like Lacerating and other nice combined effects that brought a smile to our faces when we first picked them? Those were pretty cool effects that gave a lot of flavour to these items too. They used to be BtCoE, but that was fine.

  15. #55
    The Hatchery Scraap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nascoe View Post
    Yeah, those conflicting elemental schools need to be done away with in random loot, it just doesn't make sense. Having Corrosion of fire lore would work because you could equip a Combustion item of Acid lore in the other hand to get both. But things that negate each other??

    I also think Daggers, Kamas, as well as non repeating X-bows and most blunt weapons need some serious love if you want people to use their enhancements and pick those specializations.
    Well, you wouldn't necessarily want to too tightly couple utility either. After all, when every loot is special, none of it really is...

    Perhaps things turning up like a +x flaming X of fire lore, or a +X combustion of ice resistance would keep things diluted enough?

  16. #56
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    On the Banes - generally I consider these lackluster.

    The old banes with +4 damage multiplied through on crits and 3d6 were very strong and decent ones were the main thing you hoped to see on random lootgen for quite some time in the game's history (really until Cannith Crafting came along). At the 16 cap, very good Evil Outsider Bane weapons were the best anti-boss weapons you could get, and decent Construct Banes were also always in demand.

    These banes were desired because, in their narrow niche, they outdamaged any alternatives. Outside that niche they sucked, but when you wanted a Bane weapon it was awesome.


    These new banes, however, do not outdamage other alternatives. They should be either Xd4 bursting, or Xd6, or even Xd8, to make sure that they are better than elemental damage alternatives in their niche. After all, it's pretty silly that a Frost weapon out-DPSes an Elemental Bane weapon against Fire Elementals despite the latter weapon being much more narrow.



    It's really bizarre that you asked for feedback, then totally ignored the main request of players - to make healing amp bracers drop again. This was requested more than the elemental bursts, for instance (which I'm glad to see back because while they are not strong they are kinda cool).


    Questions:

    - Will the new Metalline suffix drop on high level loot, or only on the ~+9 equivalent or lower weapons that currently get +2 equivalent affixes?
    - Why are nondamaging utility effects like Crippling being removed again? These affixes are narrow but extremely useful in their niche. I know I am not the only person that went out of my way to craft Strength Sapping of Pure Good weapons in both Cold Iron and Silver at the 20 cap, for instance; likewise Cursespewing Adamantine of Pure Good. Nondamaging utility effects add tactical options to the game.
    - Where are the healing amp bracers?????
    I don't have a zerging problem.

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  17. #57
    2014 DDO Players Council Flavilandile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    IIRC, the problem was that the old loot tables could not generate high enough level gear (The cap was 31 or something like that). Thus, with the raise of the level cap, they need new tables able to go up with the higher EE chests, plus all possible bonus available.

    So, if you were on EE Storm Horns, on a loot weekend, and using a jewel of fortune, you had the risk of the tables going back to khortos-level reward or some other kind of arcane aberration (like mimicing a specific chest loot, like a quest key)
    For me rolling back the loot to MoTU stage is just the First step towards fixing whatever needs to be fixed. It's not an end in itself.
    Once we have back all our beloved loot, then they can go fixing what needs to be fixed.
    That's why I made the statement you quoted in regard to U20 Patch 1. For U20 Patch 1 : Rollback the loot changes from U19.
    Once this is done, Devs will be able to fix what needs to be fixed, make changes ( with inputs form us ) and add new things in the U20 Patch 2, .... U21 and so on.
    But the first step is to give us back what we have lost.
    ( and if it's a problem with Chest Loot Level, then those few chests that are too high for the old system can keep their Ghostbaned loot, as long as all the other chests gets back the normal loot. )
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  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scraap View Post
    Well, you wouldn't necessarily want to too tightly couple utility either. After all, when every loot is special, none of it really is...

    Perhaps things turning up like a +x flaming X of fire lore, or a +X combustion of ice resistance would keep things diluted enough?
    Sure, that would work fine too, and make for really nice combinations. I agree that its fine, or WAI to have many random things not really good, but it seems strange to have combinations that rather annule themselves. Things like retributive bows or throwing weapons seem pretty useless, but can be of some use when mobs close in on you at least.

  19. #59
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    On the Banes - generally I consider these lackluster.

    (more good stuff)
    While I agree that banes should have a damage dice higher than d4 (in fact, I think higher levels should incorporate disruption-like effects for their bane target), they do not compete with elemental and alignment damage. Those are prefixes, while bane is a suffix. So, you can have a Frost VII <weapon> of Elemental Bane VII, or something like that.
    Main: Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist [<o>]

    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma

    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

  20. #60
    The Hatchery Scraap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    While I agree that banes should have a damage dice higher than d4 (in fact, I think higher levels should incorporate disruption-like effects for their bane target), they do not compete with elemental and alignment damage. Those are prefixes, while bane is a suffix. So, you can have a Frost VII <weapon> of Elemental Bane VII, or something like that.
    While possible, if they keep the same distribution schema, (and we're likely looking at it being a while before they alter that if they are so inclined) the likelihood is for items to generate with useful/useless prefix of bane, or elemental of useful/useless suffix most of the time. Given that, most will likely continue to gravitate towards the elementals. That seems like an unwanted result, given they're putting in the work to make the new effects.

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