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  1. #21
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Holy of Metalline does sound nice, but if this makes the cannith crafting shard into a suffix then it will break the demon beater:

    +5 Metalline Flametouched Iron of Greater Evil Outsider Bane
    That is another monster to slay: The need to update Cannith Crafting. As we have seen with U14 and U19, random loot changes generally don't break cannith crafting, except by ML. So, unless they also update CC, the crafted stuff should still be acessible.

    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    Keep Lesser/normal/Greater Bane in the loot tables, but retroactively update (or include a Stone of Change ritual) any named epic weapon with Greater Bane to Epic (or Superior) Bane (6d6+8; see Epic Ancient Vulkoorim Dagger).
    I like the roman scale because it allow further growing. If the devs want in the future to develop a named item with 20d4 bane damage, they can just name it Bane XX and be done, instead of trying to get more and more unique names for an effect that will show up only in one item. I mean, once they started naming things "supreme" or "superior", it is hard to go up without sounding too pretentious.

    They should add a bonus to weapon enchantment equal the bane roman number as well against the bane target.

    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    Convert a lot of these effects to augment crystals. Many of these affixes make for rather poor weapons, but would be attractive as red augments (or even yellow/blue augments that confer their effects upon attacks made, the way that the Shimmering Arrowhead adds Crippling to your ranged attacks).
    /signed

    Would love to find tactics (stun, trip, sunder), shattermantle, cursespewing, crippling, stench, and stat damage rubies.

    Also extra casting rubies instead of only spellpower too. Lores, potency, etc.
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  2. #22
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post

    I like the roman scale because it allow further growing. If the devs want in the future to develop a named item with 20d4 bane damage, they can just name it Bane XX and be done, instead of trying to get more and more unique names for an effect that will show up only in one item. I mean, once they started naming things "supreme" or "superior", it is hard to go up without sounding too pretentious.

    They should add a bonus to weapon enchantment equal the bane roman number as well against the bane target.
    First, the Roman numeral naming scheme is boring and flavorless.
    Second, it adds more variance to the loot tables than is needed.
    Third, unique properties on named items are a good thing, as it keeps them looking fresh, and moves away from the sense that too many of the items items are just a mixing of existing effects without actual new stuff being added.
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  3. #23
    The Hatchery Fefnir_2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    First, the Roman numeral naming scheme is boring and flavorless.
    Second, it adds more variance to the loot tables than is needed.
    Third, unique properties on named items are a good thing, as it keeps them looking fresh, and moves away from the sense that too many of the items items are just a mixing of existing effects without actual new stuff being added.
    Unique names are great, but if the level cap continues to go up, then we'll end up with +12 Super Wicked Awesome Cutificating Greataxes of Insanely Legendary Burninating. I imagine that's why they switched to numbers anyway, it's far more flexible.

    What if there was a compromise? Combining verbose names with precise numbering?

    Flaming I-VI: 1d4 through 6d4.
    Blasting I-VI: 1d8 through 6d8.
    Incinerating I-VI: 1d20-6d20.

    And so on. Admittedly, it still pollutes the loot tables in a way. But between polluting the loot tables, and never raising the level cap because adding new weapon permutations has become progressively more difficult, I think we both know what Turbine would choose.
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  4. #24
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    I absolutely HATE the Roman numeral system being brought into the game (again).

    If the Roman Numeral system is staying, then the Devs need to create a mechanism that gates the lower Roman numerals, just as they prevent upper Romans gated from the lower levels. I don't want to be pulling <insert effect> I/II at level 20 or higher.

    Pulling numbers out of my butt, but something like this:
    * Roman Numeral I drops only on items that are ML 1 to 5
    * Roman Numeral II drops only on items that are ML 3 to 8
    * Roman Numeral III drops only on items that are ML 5 to 10
    * Roman Numeral IV drops only on items that are ML 8 to 12
    * and so on

    This will help prevent the unnecessary clutter found with the new stupid loot tables. It will also help alleviate the chances of getting truly awful loot like ML 23 Fort 20% loot.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fefnir_2011 View Post
    +12 Super Wicked Awesome Cutificating Greataxes of Insanely Legendary Burninating.
    LOL ^

    In all seriousness I think a tiny bit of forethought and establishing naming conventions can avoid this Roman numeral blandness. Lesser, greater, superior, epic, relic, Artifact. superior Burninating please make a named item with that. Name it the Burninator LOL.
    Last edited by IronClan; 11-22-2013 at 10:47 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    You can't possibly design good gameplay if excitement unpredictability and unknowns are NOT ALLOWED because they confuse some players who want everything cut and dried and spelled out for them.

  6. #26
    2016 DDO Players Council Qhualor's Avatar
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    I prefer names more than numbers because they sound cool and I learn new words when I Google them. I try to use them in a sentence at work, but it doesn't sound right when you work in a warehouse.

    if we are going to have Roman numerals in DDO that has a D&D setting, than at least let us see them without having to hover over them. we should also rename short swords to gladius and its about time we had pilums added to the game too.
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  7. #27
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fefnir_2011 View Post
    Unique names are great, but if the level cap continues to go up, then we'll end up with +12 Super Wicked Awesome Cutificating Greataxes of Insanely Legendary Burninating.
    Oooh... but's always been my dream to burninate the village!
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  8. #28
    Community Member Rhysem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SqueakofDoom View Post
    [LIST][*]Humanoid Bane
    • Humanoid Bane: On Hit: 1 to 6 Bane Damage vs Humanoids and Giants. (Bane damage cannot be resisted.)
    • Humanoid Bane II: On Hit: 2 to 8 Bane Damage vs Humanoids and Giants. (Bane damage cannot be resisted.)
    • Humanoid Bane III: On Hit: 3 to 12 Bane Damage vs Humanoids and Giants. (Bane damage cannot be resisted.)
    • Humanoid Bane IV: On Hit: 4 to 16 Bane Damage vs Humanoids and Giants. (Bane damage cannot be resisted.)
    • Humanoid Bane V: On Hit: 5 to 20 Bane Damage vs Humanoids and Giants. (Bane damage cannot be resisted.)
    • Humanoid Bane VI: On Hit: 6 to 24 Bane Damage vs Humanoids and Giants. (Bane damage cannot be resisted.)
    • Humanoid Bane VII: On Hit: 7 to 28 Bane Damage vs Humanoids and Giants. (Bane damage cannot be resisted.)
    Weaksauce. If those follow the normal +1/+2/+3 enchantment cost rules that ghostbane seems to, you're replacing 3d6+4 (+4 to-hit) with 3d4+0 (+nothing). If it is +0/+1/+2/+3, it is better at 3d6+4 vs 4d4 but the new banes still kinda suck, with a lower average and maximum damage and no to-hit. I know we now have accurate/deadly which "makes up for it" but you have to find somewhere to slot those. Prefer not having them and the old banes.

    Carrying less weapons by having wider banes is nice... it really wasn't a big deal, since it wasn't largely worth carrying the old banes around, except for maybe aberration (beholders suck), outsiders, construct, and undead bane. I'll stick with cannith crafting my bane weapons over using these from lootgen.


    Where is disruption/smiting/banishing? If you rolled them into their respective banes, that'd start to make those banes a bit more attractive. Not sure what you'd do on humanoids -- vorpal seems ... wrong there.

  9. #29
    The Hatchery Scraap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhysem View Post
    Where is disruption/smiting/banishing? If you rolled them into their respective banes, that'd start to make those banes a bit more attractive. Not sure what you'd do on humanoids -- vorpal seems ... wrong there.
    http://ddowiki.com/page/Manslayer would fit, but then there's that cutting into named loot again. BTCoE version of the mutation, perhaps?

  10. #30
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    The banes seem pretty weak. Why choose them when you can take an energy damage type that works on a lot more creature types?
    I'd increase the damage banes do.

    Geoff.

  11. #31
    2016 DDO Players Council LeoLionxxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LawfulEvil View Post
    The Greater Sunburst affix currently reads "This weapon blazes with the eternal fury at the heart of a sun. Occasionally, this power comes to the surface, unleashing a nova of light which will blind the struck enemy, dealing severe light damage to it and any other nearby foes." but does not have a definitive damage range listed like the other new weapon affixes. Can you let us know that range so we don't have to rely on someone hitting the training dummy 100 times to obtain an average. Thanks!
    ON top of that, can we see a return of the D&D dice display, such as "3D8 fire damage" and the sort? This is something that has been missed.
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  12. #32
    Community Member evilgardengnome's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    I prefer names more than numbers because they sound cool and I learn new words when I Google them. I try to use them in a sentence at work, but it doesn't sound right when you work in a warehouse.
    .
    Just use the roman numerals in conversation. "Hey man, I'm going to go get the Forklift of Burninating IV . Boss wants the 200 inch epic TV of eye-melting IX loaded onto that truck."
    Sounds like fun to me.

  13. #33
    Community Member btolson's Avatar
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    With regard to the banes, if you aren't going to restore the old DPS per ML ratio, then just axe the idea of banes altogether, please. Old Greater Bane had a +3 enchantment modifier and was 3d6 bane damage and +4 to enhancement modifier, which was, at a minimum, 3d6+4 damage, or an average of 14.5 damage. Since the enhancement bonus portion of the effect was subject to critical hit multiplication, this ended up being between 16 and 16.5 average damage for most builds, and this still neglects the impact of the +4 to hit.

    The new banes that come at +3 enchantment modifier are only +3d4 damage, which is +7.5 average damage, none of which gets multiplied on crits and with no to-hit bonus. I used to think that ghostbane was intentionally worse DPS per ML than Undead Bane because it had ghost touch rolled into it, but seeing as how the plan for the new banes follows the exact same damage progression, that is obviously not the case. Even the new +7 banes are only 7d4 damage, or 17.5 average damage. This is only +1 to 1.5 raw average damage better than old Greater Bane for most builds, and yet chews up +7 enchantment modifier compared to Greater Bane's +3. If you are going to go down the route of such mediocre damage per modifier, then get away from the specificity of banes and just make it some form of generic universal damage that works against a very, very broad spectrum of enemies (Pure Good I through VII?).

    Banes will have to offer better damage than what is proposed to justify carrying them around, or to eclipse old/crafted Greater Banes (An old +1 Holy of Greater Bane would have an ML of 10, and be slightly superior to a new +1 Holy II Bane VII which would have an ML of 18 -- vastly inflating the required ML to achieve less DPS than we had years ago is not cool). If a more proper progression of bane damage per ML is too unbalanced to carry these effects to rank VII, then don't extend them that far. To be honest, I would much rather you return Greater Undead Bane and Greater Evil Outsider Bane at +3 than have any of these new aggregate banes introduced as they are currently proposed.



    On the subject of the AOEs, please do something with the DCs so that these weapons have a place in all content, instead of just low/easy content. Either make the DC scale with, say, whatever ability modifier the character uses using for to-hit on the weapon, or remove the DCs and rebalance the damage as deemed appropriate. Also, considering they only proc 1/20th of the time and thus only offer an average of 2.625 AOE damage per hit (assuming the victims fail their DCs 100% of the time), the damage should be improved or scaled in some way as this is pretty negligible in EE, or even EH. If these effects have the same +6 enchantment modifier they used to have, then relative to e.g. flaming VI, you have to be fighting 6 or more enemies who fail their save 100% of the time for these AOE effects to start coming out ahead.



    Also, where's the Vicious prefix?



    Overall I'm still glad to see changes coming, but the math makes it look like nothing is going to change re: desirability of random loot for many of us.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    I'm happy to see the return of many affixes, but I can't help but wonder if many are just too weak on their own to really help the situation. Something like shattermantle might be better suited as an augment for niche uses. Or perhaps abilities that are extremely niche or weak on their own could be added as a small % chance as a 3rd affix on an item. You could get a +5 acid longsword of righteousness or 5% of the time it would be a +5 acid longsword of righteousness with shattermantle as well. In addition there would be a 5% chance of that weapon also having a red slot. Something like the old maiming ability could also work here. It's really weak as a standard suffix, but if it is a small % chance to be an extra additional suffix, then it's all win. This makes for different rarity tiers of weapons which are incrementally better, but also extremely rare. This adds a wow element to opening chests. You could get a great rare combination at any given time.
    Cool idea.


    Plus, agree with the people who say we need to lose the Roman numerals. Makes things feel so bland - like nothing ever changes; you just keep changing your weapon for something that is essentially the same but ever so slightly better.
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  15. #35
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Assassinate is not even mentioned. My god.

    At least upgrade EMG to have a +4/+5 to Assassinate.
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  16. #36
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    Assassinate is not even mentioned. My god.

    At least upgrade EMG to have a +4/+5 to Assassinate.
    They should have shattering modify assassinate DC. I mean if its ok for quivering palm then why not assassinate?

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    [*]Convert a lot of these effects to augment crystals. Many of these affixes make for rather poor weapons, but would be attractive as red augments (or even yellow/blue augments that confer their effects upon attacks made, the way that the Shimmering Arrowhead adds Crippling to your ranged attacks).[/LIST]
    /signed

    As far as metalline turning into a suffix, I'd rather see metalline and aligned be variable, uniquely being the only two things that could be a prefix or a suffix. Of course, you could raise the ML them to compensate for a weapon that has both of those on it. How cool would it be to have both of those on a weapon?

    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    That is another monster to slay: The need to update Cannith Crafting. As we have seen with U14 and U19, random loot changes generally don't break cannith crafting, except by ML. So, unless they also update CC, the crafted stuff should still be acessible.
    This also! I'm a big crafter, all levels at 150. I really like crafting, and find that it definitely gives me an edge over other players, especially with marks of house C and flexible crafting. I'd like to see an update to it, add some stuff, clear out some ****, gives crafters with really high crafting levels the ability to do or craft certain special stuff. Of which of course, I have tons of ideas for. Maybe ill start a thread on it...
    Last edited by skaught78; 11-23-2013 at 05:39 AM.

  18. #38
    Time Bandit & Hero SirShen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SqueakofDoom View Post
    Please use this thread to discuss the recent changes to Randomly Generated Weapons.

    Also note that there is another thread in the Lamannia News & Official Discussions sub-forum that focuses on future changes to Randomly Generated Items (not just weapons).
    Iv just got to laugh, we were asked what we wanted and alot said not intrested in BANE weapons and what gets put in first to the loot tables, yes you got it BANE weapons. Do they even read the replies.

  19. #39
    2014 DDO Players Council Flavilandile's Avatar
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    Lets talk then...

    Quote Originally Posted by SqueakofDoom View Post
    We have started our changes to Randomly Generated items, starting with adding (some new and some old) mutations for Randomly Generated Weapons. Please note that the changes are not final, and we are still working towards providing variety without too much redundancy.
    You you can't just rollback in the old loot, and be done with it ? Why do the current crop of dev always have to consider that doing things the complex way is always the best way ? ( *glance at the BtA Seed because somebody wouldn't change CoVs to BTA* )

    Quote Originally Posted by SqueakofDoom View Post
    Randomly Generated Weapons:
    [snip the many things that have that line : (targeted to be removed with the next Lamannia build)
    Why do you want to get rid of them ? Some of them provide important things for Heroic Levels. Enfeebling, Wounding, Puncturing are things that have a use at heroic level. At a time they were extremely valuable.

    Or is it that you want to get rid of all the weapons that do Stat Damages.



    Quote Originally Posted by SqueakofDoom View Post
    [*]Feeding[*]Draining

    Temporary things are not interesting ( well the spellpoints might have some situational interest ). Actually for Hit Points it is dangerous ( since people will be unable to know exactly where they stand exactly, and 25 HP can mean staying alive or being dead )


    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Please change Metalline back to a prefix.

    Yes, Metalline should be a prefix, it doesn't have it's place as a suffix.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    I don't know about actual HPs, but temporary HPs on a melee last for a whole 3 seconds in combat. its pretty useless, imo, and why I have never used anything like it in game before. I would rather see something else besides a temporary effect.
    That, as I stated Temporary things are meh, and can be dangerous.


    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    Suggestions:
    Many interesting things there.


    Quote Originally Posted by SirShen View Post
    Iv just got to laugh, we were asked what we wanted and alot said not intrested in BANE weapons and what gets put in first to the loot tables, yes you got it BANE weapons. Do they even read the replies.
    Yup, it's obvious that somebody is rolling out his favored changes and don't care much what the player wants.
    Bane was working fine with lesser, normal, greater. If you wanted to add to it you could have added minor and major on top and be done with it. No point in putting the whole thing on it's head.
    And really if Turbine read the thread with all our answers for what we want if would be clear that :
    What people wants is ALL the old suffixes and prefixes back on ALL the items ASAP, and then Devs can start to work on making changes.
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  20. #40
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fefnir_2011 View Post
    Unique names are great, but if the level cap continues to go up, then we'll end up with +12 Super Wicked Awesome Cutificating Greataxes of Insanely Legendary Burninating. I imagine that's why they switched to numbers anyway, it's far more flexible.

    What if there was a compromise? Combining verbose names with precise numbering?

    Flaming I-VI: 1d4 through 6d4.
    Blasting I-VI: 1d8 through 6d8.
    Incinerating I-VI: 1d20-6d20.

    And so on. Admittedly, it still pollutes the loot tables in a way. But between polluting the loot tables, and never raising the level cap because adding new weapon permutations has become progressively more difficult, I think we both know what Turbine would choose.
    You're just contributing to the same problem.

    We don't need 1d4/2d4/3d4/5d4/6d4/7d4 permutations on weapons. 1d6/2d6/3d6 is probably enough. If not, adding a 4d6 should be enough. Having just up to 3d6 and adding Burst to those properties would be enough probably. Finally, if we get back the MotU bundled affixes, this isn't even a major issue, because we can get something like Blazing and Incineration wrapped into one prefix, which, truthfully, is a much more interesting way to progress loot than the iterative increases.
    Quote Originally Posted by GeoffWatson View Post
    The banes seem pretty weak. Why choose them when you can take an energy damage type that works on a lot more creature types?
    I'd increase the damage banes do.

    Geoff.
    This is also a real problem with the proposed multi-banes. Previously, the differentiation we had was 1d6 elemental vs. 1d6+1 and +1 to-hit for a +1 enhancement bonus, 1d6 + burst elemental or +2d6 aligned vs. 2d6+2 and +2 to-hit, and then we had +2d6 + burst aligned vs. +3d6+4 and +4 to-hit. Banes were more bang for your buck against their respective targets than more generally useful weapons`as far as damage went and they helped land those attacks.

    If Natural Bane scales to basically the same number as an elemental damage weapon, what's the point in carrying around the more specific weapon? On top of that, we have creatures that take extra damage from a certain element, and some special abilities that can make creatures vulnerable to a particular element, making the elemental weapons even better.
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