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  1. #61
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    Bring back Lacerating, Divine Light, Mauling, & Mangling too.

  2. #62
    The Hatchery CaptainSpacePony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satyriasys View Post
    I agree 100%
    Because he's brilliant.

    That said, I don't think Seph's bane argument is that strong. I agree the change is mostly a "happy" to "glad" (other than the grouping--which is great) but his suggestion reduces it from 7 levels of bane to 5. Not a lot of economy there imo. Not a bad suggestion per se, just not a lot of gas in it.
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  3. #63
    Senior Developer DrOctothorpe's Avatar
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    Default Metalline

    Two fun facts about Metalline:

    1) In modern random loot, big damage numbers come from the prefix. We thought you would enjoy doing the extra damage and bypassing DR all at once. Thus Metalline as a suffix.

    2) The Metalline suffix will be a new mutation, so won't affect crafted and old items.

  4. #64
    Community Member whereispowderedsilve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    Two fun facts about Metalline:

    1) In modern random loot, big damage numbers come from the prefix. We thought you would enjoy doing the extra damage and bypassing DR all at once. Thus Metalline as a suffix.

    2) The Metalline suffix will be a new mutation, so won't affect crafted and old items.
    Cool. More communication please, more reasoning behind things like this, more plans etc. Keep up the work! :P! ! Cheers!
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  5. #65

    Default Don't really likke the Roman Numerals..

    I agree with many others concerning the Roman Numerals, those just are annoying. But if they have to stay, including them in the name of the weapon will help, it gets annoying to have to examine the weapons with the same attributes to figure out which one is better instead of just glancing at the name.

    I'm also a little confused about the removed of the stat draining items. I no I don't use those a whole lot currently, but I used to use them all the time and I can still see their usefulness in many instances. Also getting rid of things like Crippling seems to make it harder to make tactic based characters, which help give diversity and uniqueness to some builds.

    As for the banes, I don't really use them all that much for I did have a few ghost touch of greater undead banes and other greater banes that had stat draining with them as well (wounding of greater aberration bane for those dang beholders...) and now those will be gone or weakened. It is also hard for me to wrap my head around that one of the most sought after weapons in the game will no longer exist if this hold true...wounding of puncturing... Here is too changes I suppose...

  6. #66
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainSpacePony View Post
    Because he's brilliant.
    Heh, thanks.

    That said, I don't think Seph's bane argument is that strong. I agree the change is mostly a "happy" to "glad" (other than the grouping--which is great) but his suggestion reduces it from 7 levels of bane to 5. Not a lot of economy there imo. Not a bad suggestion per se, just not a lot of gas in it.
    What is it you don't like exactly? Just that my suggestion is that we don't need an extra 4 tiers of variation on the Bane property? Keep in mind that the proposed property from the devs is nothing but increased d4s, whereas the old banes were d6s and had bonuses to their enhancement as well, so a smaller variation still yielded more impressive results (2d4 to 7d4 is an increase of 12.5 damage, while going from 1d6+1 to 3d6+4 is an increase of 11.5 damage on average without considering that +4 being multiplied on crits, or how it figures into your successfully landing attacks, so it's probably at least 12.5, and is probably more than that). Also 7d4 averages to 17.5 total, while 3d6+4 averages to 14.5 + (4*x) where x is your crit power. Oh, and the +4 adds to your base damage, which should improve your glancing blows on two-handed and hand-and-a-half weapons. Then Epic Bane goes to 6d6+8, or 29 damage on average before figuring in all the other bits that relate to the +8 enhancement bonus. Sticking Superior Bane in between at, say, 4d6+6 would smooth out that curve.
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  7. #67
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    Default Thanks for the considerations and for telling us why

    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    Two fun facts about Metalline:

    1) In modern random loot, big damage numbers come from the prefix. We thought you would enjoy doing the extra damage and bypassing DR all at once. Thus Metalline as a suffix.

    2) The Metalline suffix will be a new mutation, so won't affect crafted and old items.
    Very good about point 2, that gives Cannith Crafting the option to make something different from what can drop in random loot.

    The first point I understand and I see the reasoning. If players dislike it, would you be inclined to change metalline to a prefix again? Not saying that I am convinced a prefix will be better or worse, just asking whether the option is there if everyone agrees that it would be better not to.

  8. #68
    Community Member OverlordOfRats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    Two fun facts about Metalline:

    1) In modern random loot, big damage numbers come from the prefix. We thought you would enjoy doing the extra damage and bypassing DR all at once. Thus Metalline as a suffix.

    2) The Metalline suffix will be a new mutation, so won't affect crafted and old items.
    Yeah!

    Thank you for letting us know.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    I'm happy to see the return of many affixes, but I can't help but wonder if many are just too weak on their own to really help the situation. Something like shattermantle might be better suited as an augment for niche uses. Or perhaps abilities that are extremely niche or weak on their own could be added as a small % chance as a 3rd affix on an item. You could get a +5 acid longsword of righteousness or 5% of the time it would be a +5 acid longsword of righteousness with shattermantle as well. In addition there would be a 5% chance of that weapon also having a red slot. Something like the old maiming ability could also work here. It's really weak as a standard suffix, but if it is a small % chance to be an extra additional suffix, then it's all win. This makes for different rarity tiers of weapons which are incrementally better, but also extremely rare. This adds a wow element to opening chests. You could get a great rare combination at any given time. Right now our gear is basically just level gated and might have a slot at the expense of lesser enhancement bonus elsewhere. There is no "rare" loot gen currently.

    Fiery Detonation and the like are reasonable damage against very large groups, but in one on one combat they are behind even a 1d6 mod of a similar element. The incineration and lightning strike procs offer a similar issue. They only do something 2% of the time. I understand that the xd4 effects added recently can often actually deal more damage that the spike damage of lightning strike, but I think players are really hoping for the return of the combination abilities which merge an "always on" proc with the low % proc to create a weapon that just feels better.
    I like the idea of weak effects being added as an additional suffix.

    I also agree that fiery detonation seems weak, as its average damage is paltry. What's the ml gonna be? I would say say that just as flaming burst = flaming + additional damage on crit, then maybe fiery detonation should actually be flaming burst + the indicated AOE vorpal effect.
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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    First, the Roman numeral naming scheme is boring and flavorless.
    Second, it adds more variance to the loot tables than is needed.
    Third, unique properties on named items are a good thing, as it keeps them looking fresh, and moves away from the sense that too many of the items items are just a mixing of existing effects without actual new stuff being added.
    I agree. The roman numeral system is absolutely terrible.

    Basically, almost the entire new system should be thrown out. Make the starting point the old system and add in the few changes that made sense.

    vorpal to improved vorpal to greater vorpal (ditto banishing, smiting, cursespewing)
    Two minor changes: let the improved and greater show up in the weapon description; allow damage increases for improved and greater, not just additional vorpal range

    Improve banes by adding epic/superior bane and by combinations, eg superior undead bane and ghostbane both possibilities
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  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    Two fun facts about Metalline:

    1) In modern random loot, big damage numbers come from the prefix. We thought you would enjoy doing the extra damage and bypassing DR all at once. Thus Metalline as a suffix.

    2) The Metalline suffix will be a new mutation, so won't affect crafted and old items.
    Sounds logical, but what part of fiery detonation's damage description screams uber-dps weapon to you guys?

    Give me something like "hell's inferno", mL 20-something prefix: flaming burst + fiery detonation + greater incineration, now we are getting somewhere.
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  12. #72
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobbinB View Post
    I like the idea of weak effects being added as an additional suffix.

    I also agree that fiery detonation seems weak, as its average damage is paltry. What's the ml gonna be? I would say say that just as flaming burst = flaming + additional damage on crit, then maybe fiery detonation should actually be flaming burst + the indicated AOE vorpal effect.
    I think fiery detonation would be best used as an additional 3rd suffix that could be generated on any flaming weapon, similar to the line of suffixes proposed by FoS recently. On it's own, it's just very meh. At the very least they should tag on flaming burst with it if it's going to be a high level affix like it was before "GHOSTBANE"
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  13. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    Two fun facts about Metalline:

    1) In modern random loot, big damage numbers come from the prefix. We thought you would enjoy doing the extra damage and bypassing DR all at once. Thus Metalline as a suffix.

    2) The Metalline suffix will be a new mutation, so won't affect crafted and old items.
    Cool, sounds good thanks much for the FYI.

  14. #74
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    So Doc, will Deadly and Accuracy items be staying in the loot tables?

  15. #75
    Community Member knightgf's Avatar
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    I took the time to look through your notes regarding the loot suffixes/prefixes that were reintroduced in the game. After much thought, I have revised the list of what should be introduced back into live. If you do not see it on the list, it was removed because it was either obsolete, underpowered compared to other suffixes/prefixes, or for whatever reason I cannot think of that is reasonable. Changes are in red.



    • Old Mutations that have been Restored:
      • Prefix
        • True Law
        • True Chaos
        • Shocking Burst
        • Flaming Burst
        • Icy Burst
        • Acid Burst
        • Anarchic Burst
        • Axiomatic Burst
        • Holy Burst
        • Improved Roaring (But on a critical hit, target suffers from the effects of dazed for 2 seconds, and procs at most every 15 seconds.)
        • Dynamo (Lightning Strike)
        • Incinerating
        • Nightmare (But with a save formula equal to 10 + character level + charisma mod)
        • Frozen
        • Magma
        • Cacophonic
        • Annihilating
        • Toxic

      • Suffix
        • Shattermantle
        • Slowburst (No reflex save, merely a vorpal effect.)
        • Everbright
        • Improved Shattermantle

    • The following are also now available as Prefixes:
      • All prefix effects that deal damage on a vorpal hit no longer have a save. Let's face it, this kind of equipment ages faster or is already obsolete than most kinds of effects similar to this. How would you like it if incineration had a mediocre save for half damage? Or even shocking burst?

    • New Suffixes:
      • Humanoid Bane
        • Humanoid Bane VI: On Hit: 6 to 24 Bane Damage vs Humanoids and Giants. Also kills such creatures if they are below 1000 hitpoints. (Bane damage cannot be resisted.)
        • Humanoid Bane VII: On Hit: 7 to 28 Bane Damage vs Humanoids and Giants. Also kills such creatures if they are below 1500 hitpoints. (Bane damage cannot be resisted.)


        • Natural Bane VI: On Hit: 6 to 24 Bane Damage vs Animals, Vermin, Magical Beasts, Plants, and Fey. Also kills such creatures if they are below 1000 hitpoints. (Bane damage cannot be resisted.)
        • Natural Bane VII: On Hit: 7 to 28 Bane Damage vs Animals, Vermin, Magical Beasts, Plants, and Fey. Also kills such creatures if they are below 1500 hitpoints. (Bane damage cannot be resisted.)

      • Feeding
        • Feeding: On Vorpal Hit: Your target loses 5 hit points, and you gain +5 Temporary Hit Points. (These Temporary Hit Points last for one minute, or until used to negate incoming damage.)
        • Feeding II: On Vorpal Hit: Your target loses 10 hit points, has a tiny chance to incur one Negative level, and you gain +10 Temporary Hit Points. (These Temporary Hit Points last for one minute, or until used to negate incoming damage.)
        • Feeding III: On Vorpal Hit: Your target loses 15 hit points, has a moderate chance to incur one Negative level, and you gain +15 Temporary Hit Points. (These Temporary Hit Points last for one minute, or until used to negate incoming damage.)
        • Feeding IV: On Vorpal Hit: Your target loses 20 hit points, has a high chance to incur one Negative level, and you gain +20 Temporary Hit Points. (These Temporary Hit Points last for one minute, or until used to negate incoming damage.)
        • Feeding V: On Vorpal Hit: Your target loses 25 hit points, incurs one Negative level, and you gain +25 Temporary Hit Points. (These Temporary Hit Points last for one minute, or until used to negate incoming damage.)
        • Feeding VI: On Vorpal Hit: Your target loses 30 hit points, incurs two negative levels, and you gain +30 Temporary Hit Points. (These Temporary Hit Points last for one minute, or until used to negate incoming damage.)
        • Feeding VII: On Vorpal Hit: Your target loses 35 hitpoints, incurs two negative levels, and you gain the effects of restoration as well as +35 Temporary Hit Points. (These Temporary Hit Points last for one minute, or until used to negate incoming damage.)

      • Draining
        • Draining: On Vorpal Hit: Your target cannot cast for 2 seconds, and you gain +2 Temporary Spell Points. (These Temporary Spell Points last for one minute, or until used to reduce the cost of your next spell.)
        • Draining II: On Vorpal Hit: Your target either cannot cast for 2 seconds or has a tiny chance to incur one Negative level, and you gain +4 Temporary Spell Points. (These Temporary Spell Points last for one minute, or until used to reduce the cost of your next spell.)
        • Draining III: On Vorpal Hit: Your target either cannot cast for 2 seconds or has a moderate chance to incur one Negative level, and you gain +6 Temporary Spell Points. (These Temporary Spell Points last for one minute, or until used to reduce the cost of your next spell.)
        • Draining IV: On Vorpal Hit: Your target cannot cast for 2 seconds and has a moderate chance to incur one Negative level, and you gain +8 Temporary Spell Points. (These Temporary Spell Points last for one minute, or until used to reduce the cost of your next spell.)
        • Draining V: On Vorpal Hit: Your target cannot cast for 3 seconds and has a high chance to incur one Negative level, and you gain +10 Temporary Spell Points. (These Temporary Spell Points last for one minute, or until used to reduce the cost of your next spell.)
        • Draining VI: On Vorpal Hit: Your target cannot cast for 4 seconds, incurs one Negative level, and you gain +12 Temporary Spell Points. (These Temporary Spell Points last for one minute, or until used to reduce the cost of your next spell.)
        • Draining VII: On Vorpal Hit: Your target cannot cast for 4 seconds, incurs one Negative level, and has a small chance to incur another negative level, and you gain +14 Temporary Spell Points. (These Temporary Spell Points last for one minute, or until used to reduce the cost of your next spell.)


    A few notes to help describe why I made the changes that I did:


    • Both draining and feeding needed a bit of adjustment; negative levels are POWERFUL at low levels, especially when multiple people are using the same kind of weapons. At the same time however, so is the ability for draining to incur silence on a caster. I recommend setting a timer on when this kind of effect can be repeated in order to avoid issues with gameplay. 15-30 seconds is reasonable.
    • If it were me, I would adjust just how high the hitpoint limit should be for the bane effects slightly. At epic levels, 1000, or even 1500 hitpoints is nothing compared to the total hp of a monster. Not to mention the bane effect is also limited; however, this would most likely trivialize vorpal weapons if the limit was raised too high.
    • One particular set of enhancements, seeker, was removed because it is more convenient to find this set on clothing and jewelry. It is a waste of a prefix/suffix to put on a weapon.
    • If a particular prefix/suffix was set to be removed on Lamannia, I did not examine it.
    • DO NOT put saves on a weapon unless it can scale with the person wielding it (I.E.: Saves should be equal to a formula such as 10 + character/class level + some sort of modifier). Setting a fixed number is inflexible with the weapon due to the fact that mobs tend to have much higher saves than the weapon DC it has and ages the weapon quickly compared to other prefixes/suffixes of it's type.


    Thanks for taking the time to review this! I sure hope you find it helpful!
    Here's a riddle for you: What do you call people who play the game for only a day and apparently know everything?

  16. #76
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    @knightgf:

    FoS said in another thread that he was working on making weapons with DC-based effects that scale with the min-level of the weapon.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    Two fun facts about Metalline:

    1) In modern random loot, big damage numbers come from the prefix. We thought you would enjoy doing the extra damage and bypassing DR all at once. Thus Metalline as a suffix.

    2) The Metalline suffix will be a new mutation, so won't affect crafted and old items.

    So what about righteousness? I cant be the only one who has alot of twink weapons with elemental/holy of righteousness + risia frost. Can i say byebye to those cos the they get the new effect? Stay they same effect but ml with be magically raised and thus totally useless for me?

  18. #78
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    Random vs Cannith crafted:
    Cannith crafting should cover all of things available as random; at least up to some threshold; this means new affixes added with loot update should make it to the crafting list. After all, players can buy both crafting materials and crafting XP enhancers off store, so anything that hurts Cannith Crafting usefulness, hurts profits from those sales.

    Roman numerals:
    Idea of being able to linearly match an effect strength with a name just by adding a numeral isn't bad in my opinion. Custom names should be kept for truly unique features. Generic effects, like, deal x y-typed damage to z creature, should have generic names and numeral scale of effect, and let's face it, Roman numerals make it less bland than Arabic numerals. Anyway, if effect comes with a scale expressed in numerals, numerals should be included in item name. PERIOD.

    +x [prefix] [material type] [item] [suffix] is a great naming convention; but, as someone pointed in this thread, it wouldn't kill us to have more than 1 prefix or more than 1 suffix.

    Metalline, Aligned, Morphing (bypass slash/pierce/bludgeon DR):
    add crystal to Metalline. AND add crystal to possible weapon material
    Add morphing and aligned to random weapon table, allow those to be both prefix and suffix

    Distribution of +enhancement value between affixes:
    Two Health +2 rings of False Life +10 are worth less than one Health +4 ring and one Ring of False Life +20. Thus, if less lootgen items are bound to become vendor fodder, enhancement value structure needs to be focused in one affix up to a limit, and if there's a surplus, distribute it among other affixes, raw + enhancement for weapons & armor, and augment slots. It doesn't affect weapons as much as it does other items, because for example, "Flaming IV" is not something that rule of "only highest applies" works with.

    Affixes that go nicely together should be put together more often: Caster weapons are best example - Fire spellpower should bias suffix towards Fire lore or evocation mastery; Cold spellpower -> cold lore, conjuration or evocation mastery; but, negative spellpower should go with negative energy lore, necromancy mastery, Spell Penetration.

    [Spell group] Spell Augmentation up to +2 added to lower levels. Due to harsh limits on most of the spells, augmentation which is found only on named items in later levels serves mostly the role of stacking spell pen, and buff duration extender. This could be changed by introducing effects like Fire Augmentation I-III - enhancement value of 2 per I; to the lootgen table. It would make a good caster suffix.

    Named vs Random
    Named things should have a total enhancement value at least 2-3 higher than green items of the same level; +3-4 for raid items. I'd like to add, that by making Keen II enhancement value of 3, and Keen III enhancement value of 5, baseline of +0.5[W] = +2 enhancement value was set.


    Feeding, Draining - those are weak - and I say that as someone who uses hjealamp and Vampiric Cleaver as main source of sustain on my melee (until the level I get my crafted Bodyfeeder Falchion of Vapirism outta TR cache). Vorpals just don't happen often enough to compensate for high enhancement value cost. If It was twice the effect, or if it stacked somehow, or if it would add tiny portion of life/sp on every hit... this might change my attitude; but, as it is, it's subpar.

    Stunning Fist vs Stunning Blow and Dazing enhancement. I guess monks needed another buff to their underpowered ability to synergize will save reduction with +stuning fist DC item. Yet I find it inadequate that Stunning Blow didn't get the same benefit.
    Last edited by Yan_PL; 11-27-2013 at 06:36 PM. Reason: "good" forums decided to relog me while I was typing the message; and I posted auto-restored version by mistake
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  19. #79
    Community Member Rykka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    Two fun facts about Metalline:

    1) In modern random loot, big damage numbers come from the prefix. We thought you would enjoy doing the extra damage and bypassing DR all at once. Thus Metalline as a suffix.

    2) The Metalline suffix will be a new mutation, so won't affect crafted and old items.
    I don't really care were you stick the suffix since I haven't pall a random item from a chest that my character would use. My TWF could build a small mansion out of shields, curtain the windows with scale armor, and build fences around it with the Staves and Dwarven Axes however.

  20. #80
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    Please make Everbright a weapon material type instead of a suffix please please please!

    Stoner81.

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