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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    Holy Silver of GEOB does an average of 7 damage more than Metalline Flametouched Iron of GEOB against demons with 0 DR (i.e. most demons). Against demons with dr 5/cold iron, it still does an average of 2 damage more than your weapon. The only demons against whom it does less damage is any demon with more than DR 7/cold iron. Since there are vanishingly few of those in the game, a Holy Silver of GEOB will be a better weapon against a large majority of demons (even demons with DR) than a Metalline Flametouched Iron of GEOB.

    And if you have a serious need to go personally kick Lailit's behind with the best possible crafted beater, then you can still make a Holy or Holy Burst Cold Iron of GEOB that will be significantly better than the Metalline one.
    Almost none of this is correct.

  2. #62
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Almost none of this is correct.
    The part where Holy provides an extra 7 average damage per hit above what Metalline does is correct.
    The part where anything with DR 7 or less will get *at least* as much damage from this as from a weapon with Metalline is correct.
    The part where anything that has DR/Good or no DR at all will get 7 more average damage per hit is correct.
    The part where most Demons don't have significant amounts of DR is correct.

    What specific part do you think is incorrect?

    Edit: I should have mentioned that anything with more than DR 7/Cold Iron or more than DR 7/Byshek would take less damage from the Holy than it does from the Metalline instead of just mentioning DR 7/Cold Iron. So I suppose that is a mistake. But the analysis in general is still valid.
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  3. #63
    Staggering LightBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post


    a) There are some affixes in here that we already know we're taking out. Ghosttouch and some of the old banes snuck into the Lamannia build, but they are already out back here at dev central.


    b) You won't see any of the shiny MotU affixes. We're working on them, but due to some technical considerations, they couldn't just be taken off the shelf and plopped back in the game. We anticipate adding these as we can, soon.

    On a):
    Don't take em out entirely, we just want more options.
    And taking affixes out of the game will give us less choices.

    On b):
    I would love to see the shiny MotU affixes on the update 19 and 20 named items for the randomness on them.

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    What specific part do you think is incorrect?
    First you dismiss the value of a demon beater at all, and then you establish this by only looking at demons for whom demon beaters aren't needed. So, pretty much all of it.

    How about Lailat? You know, the epic raid boss?

  5. #65
    Community Member gnarledmaw's Avatar
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    Angry

    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    And the fact that it's being introduced in order to fix Burden of Guilt which is a buggy workaround to punish exploiters is a problem.
    There was absolutely NO EXCUSE for breaking the loot tables by raising ML on some items to ridiculous levels. Then with no warning or even any real conversations punishing players then labeling them exploiters!
    Players are punished for something they broke? Something that has no real effect? I have some low level toons that are almost entirely geared with "exploits". Do they honestly think I intend to play to endgame wearing an ml6 item that they broke to be ml8? So what if a level 28 is running around with a lvl 30 item. It has no effect in the grand scheme of the game. Eventually that toon will TR AND NOT BE ABLE TO USE IT UNTIL THEY REACH THE NEW ML.

    In my time playing this is honestly the issue that has me closest to quitting. At this point Im not sure if Im more mad at the devs or enraged at the shortsighted players who support this stupidity. If Turbine really wants to know why people quit playing then maybe they should take a look at their own actions and stop with the ham fisted administration.

    Its not like they hadn't grandfathered other things in the game. Its not like they have fixed the problem with unusually high min ML on some items from some quests, I just picked some these up in Menechtaren two days ago. For years some quests generated unusually low ML, they broke all of those banked (like ml6 holy burst) items by raising ML making my effort to acquire them entirely wasted. Now they just want to screw over the players who have an item that is now below ML because that player played by the rules?

  6. #66
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post

    How about Lailat? You know, the epic raid boss?
    I don't know about you, but I wouldn't bring cannith crafted weapons to epic raid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Originally Posted by Random Person #2 View Post
    People who exploit bugs in code are cheaters cheaters cheaters. And they are big fat ****yheads too.

  7. #67
    Hero Propane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    I don't know about you, but I wouldn't bring cannith crafted weapons to epic raid.
    Why not? You can "tune" the weapon for the type of DR the end boss has and be very effective. ESP with augment slot.

    Changing Metalline away from a prefix mades no sense... after all the loot changes that I needed , I can not fathom why changing Metalline is even a thought.

    If metalline can be EITHER or suffix or Perfix - great!

    If switching Suffix only - BAD...
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  8. #68
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Propane View Post
    Why not? You can "tune" the weapon for the type of DR the end boss has and be very effective. ESP with augment slot.

    Changing Metalline away from a prefix mades no sense... after all the loot changes that I needed , I can not fathom why changing Metalline is even a thought.

    If metalline can be EITHER or suffix or Perfix - great!

    If switching Suffix only - BAD...
    OK, maybe I would on new undergeared alt, but not with metalline.
    If I'd have to craft a weapon for epic ADQ it would be holy burst cold iron of GCB.
    Quote Originally Posted by Originally Posted by Random Person #2 View Post
    People who exploit bugs in code are cheaters cheaters cheaters. And they are big fat ****yheads too.

  9. #69
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    First you dismiss the value of a demon beater at all, and then you establish this by only looking at demons for whom demon beaters aren't needed. So, pretty much all of it.

    How about Lailat? You know, the epic raid boss?
    You mean the Lailat that I mentioned when I said that there was only one demon who actually deserved a DR beater? And that I already mentioned that you could easily craft a Holy Cold Iron of GEOB (or GLOB since that's cheaper) for her if you can craft a Metalline of GEOB? That Lailat?

    Here it is again for easy reference:
    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    For crafted beaters, I'd very much prefer +5 Holy Silver of GEOB. It's an extra 2d6 of damage on each hit and the enemies that have Cold Iron DR don't have a whole lot of it aside from Lailat.
    and
    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    Holy Silver of GEOB does an average of 7 damage more than Metalline Flametouched Iron of GEOB against demons with 0 DR (i.e. most demons). Against demons with dr 5/cold iron, it still does an average of 2 damage more than your weapon. The only demons against whom it does less damage is any demon with more than DR 7/cold iron. Since there are vanishingly few of those in the game, a Holy Silver of GEOB will be a better weapon against a large majority of demons (even demons with DR) than a Metalline Flametouched Iron of GEOB.

    And if you have a serious need to go personally kick Lailit's behind with the best possible crafted beater, then you can still make a Holy or Holy Burst Cold Iron of GEOB that will be significantly better than the Metalline one.
    If you're going to bring a crafted weapon to an Epic raid, then bring the right one. Why would you throw away 7 damage per hit? If you're Lailat hunting, then make a weapon for her. If you're not going after Lailat, then don't worry about the Demon DR since she's the only one who has a DR that you're going to need to really worry about.
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  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    You mean the Lailat that I mentioned when I said that there was only one demon who actually deserved a DR beater? And that I already mentioned that you could easily craft a Holy Cold Iron of GEOB (or GLOB since that's cheaper) for her if you can craft a Metalline of GEOB? That Lailat?
    Just so I'm clear, demon beaters are a pointless waste but you'll devote a weapon just for lailat?

    I do not "hunt lailat," whatever that means, but my guild does the occasional ADQ guild run and it's nice to have a weapon for that. We also occassionally do elite HoX runs and it's nice to have a weapon for that too. What's even nicer is that they're the same weapon, reducing inventory clutter.

  11. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    I don't know about you, but I wouldn't bring cannith crafted weapons to epic raid.
    So what's your LOB beater? Or Lolth, for that matter? How do they stack up to my +5 holy burst adamantine of greater construct bane and +5 holy burst of greater aberration bane weapons, I wonder?

  12. #72
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    So what's your LOB beater? Or Lolth, for that matter? How do they stack up to my +5 holy burst adamantine of greater construct bane and +5 holy burst of greater aberration bane weapons, I wonder?
    For LoB I'd bring my eAGA, if I'd ever bother with flagging for raid.
    For Lolth, I stay behind rock because of idiotic mana drain mechanism, but I'd use Cleaver with cold iron buff from artificer, or eAGA if there would be no arti.
    On alt, I'd use 2 celestias on Lolth, and wouldn't bothered with killing LoB.

    And yes, if I'd have to, I'd craft specialised beater: +5 HB <apprioprate metal type> of [greater apprioprate bane], but I would not craft metalline.
    Quote Originally Posted by Originally Posted by Random Person #2 View Post
    People who exploit bugs in code are cheaters cheaters cheaters. And they are big fat ****yheads too.

  13. #73
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    For LoB I'd bring my eAGA, if I'd ever bother with flagging for raid.
    For Lolth, I stay behind rock because of idiotic mana drain mechanism, but I'd use Cleaver with cold iron buff from artificer, or eAGA if there would be no arti.
    On alt, I'd use 2 celestias on Lolth, and wouldn't bothered with killing LoB.

    And yes, if I'd have to, I'd craft specialised beater: +5 HB <apprioprate metal type> of [greater apprioprate bane], but I would not craft metalline.
    Lolth has no DR.

    Celestia FTW for eveything else.

    LOB? LOLz . . .

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Propane View Post
    •NEW: Spell Song Vigor now only affects a single target (as per its description)

    Bard need love!

    This feature (1 song affecting entire party) was on small bit of Love for them -

    Consider Leaving it the way it is on live or make it stronger (2 or 3 times at least)

    Singing the song 6 times at the beginning of a raid in not fun...

    Bards need love - it is the holiday season
    I very much agree with this observation. Bards most certainly don't need any form of nerfing whatsoever.

  15. #75
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    Thumbs up At last!!!

    NEW: Waterworks Exit Waypoint is now correctly labeled "Stormreach Harbor"


    Finally, i'll be able to get out of WW

    8-D
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  16. #76
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    Default Cake time!

    Quote Originally Posted by Drwaz99 View Post
    Seriously? So if a party I am in wipes completely - We all have to recall, relog and reform if we aren't near a shrine and nobody wants to use a cake?

    That is beyond pathetic. It's incompetent. You can't fix something properly so you punish everyone in such a heavy handed manner. Way to be professional. That doesn't look childish and asinine at all.

    *edit* was clarified after I posted this is only Lama for now. But we all know it doesn't take much for things seen here to go live. My opinion stands irregardless.
    I guess its time to use those Poincelot points to stock up on Cakes for this weekend!

  17. #77
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    Lightbulb Bard changes / fixes?

    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    What changes did they do to bard?
    From the release notes:
    Bard Spellsinger:

    NEW: Musical Studies and Advanced Musical Studies will now properly increase your Bard Songs per rest
    NEW: Spell Song Vigor now only affects a single target (as per its description)
    NEW: Most Bard songs granted by Spellsinger enhancements now have shorter singing times.

    Bard Warchanter:

    NEW: Ironskin Chant no longer triggers when using Inspire Courage
    NEW: All ranks of Inspire Recklessness now give their listed amounts of Doublestrike
    NEW: Words of Encouragement's hitpoint effect is no longer listed as "Rallying Cry"
    NEW: Victory Song is now a toggled ability that grants full Base Attack Bonus when activated
    NEW: The buff from Howl of the North now persists through death, rest, and zoning.
    NEW: Most Bard songs granted by Warchanter enhancements now have shorter singing times.
    Fixed typo in tooltip for Words of Encouragement.

  18. #78
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    Default largely agree with this post

    Quote Originally Posted by gnarledmaw View Post
    There was absolutely NO EXCUSE for breaking the loot tables by raising ML on some items to ridiculous levels. Then with no warning or even any real conversations punishing players then labeling them exploiters!
    Players are punished for something they broke? Something that has no real effect? I have some low level toons that are almost entirely geared with "exploits". Do they honestly think I intend to play to endgame wearing an ml6 item that they broke to be ml8? So what if a level 28 is running around with a lvl 30 item. It has no effect in the grand scheme of the game. Eventually that toon will TR AND NOT BE ABLE TO USE IT UNTIL THEY REACH THE NEW ML.

    In my time playing this is honestly the issue that has me closest to quitting. At this point Im not sure if Im more mad at the devs or enraged at the shortsighted players who support this stupidity. If Turbine really wants to know why people quit playing then maybe they should take a look at their own actions and stop with the ham fisted administration.

    Its not like they hadn't grandfathered other things in the game. Its not like they have fixed the problem with unusually high min ML on some items from some quests, I just picked some these up in Menechtaren two days ago. For years some quests generated unusually low ML, they broke all of those banked (like ml6 holy burst) items by raising ML making my effort to acquire them entirely wasted. Now they just want to screw over the players who have an item that is now below ML because that player played by the rules?
    While I find it hard to get as emotional about it as you seem to be, I completely agree that introducing burden of guilt to deal with all the (largely lower lvl) players that had items equipped that suddenly became higher ML items because Turbine changed them is really the wrong way to deal with this. I have some lower lvl guys who I was happy to have my crafted shield/armor with invulnerability on them and then had to remember not to change armor/weapon set when the ML were changed. Then came Burden of guilt and I have refrained from playing with most of those, because I was upset about having to make new items for them, because of a retroactive change by Turbine (invun. is now pretty useless at the higher ML). I now just tumble over to the daily token give with these guys, in the hope of getting a reason to play them.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nascoe View Post
    While I find it hard to get as emotional about it as you seem to be, I completely agree that introducing burden of guilt to deal with all the (largely lower lvl) players that had items equipped that suddenly became higher ML items because Turbine changed them is really the wrong way to deal with this. I have some lower lvl guys who I was happy to have my crafted shield/armor with invulnerability on them and then had to remember not to change armor/weapon set when the ML were changed. Then came Burden of guilt and I have refrained from playing with most of those, because I was upset about having to make new items for them, because of a retroactive change by Turbine (invun. is now pretty useless at the higher ML). I now just tumble over to the daily token give with these guys, in the hope of getting a reason to play them.
    I don't really understand your point. If you were playing with those toons of yours that had higher ML items than their level equiped, after they raised that ML, but before the Burden of Guilt (BoG) was introduced, wouldn't you sooner or later outgrow them as you leveled up and unequip them in order to wear more powerful gear?


    It wasn't fun for me to see that the ML of various weapons i had (probably all of them upgraded in the Risia event some years back) went up by 2-4 levels, and certainly not nice to discover that some other weapons i had used a lot in the past and i have made BtC are now completely impossible to use by that very same character, because they changed the required alignment (True Chaos of Pure Good req. alignment changed from Chaotic to Good). If i had one or more of these equiped while the changes were made, perhaps i would try to keep them on me, but the truth is they weren't so powerful as to make or break my char...
    The truth is, only one toon of mine was burdened by an item he was wearing, but i unequiped it even though he's only a mule, cause i still want him to run when going from the bank to the auction house. And of course, being a mule, he didn't need it anyway.


    So, i think that the people who are really troubled with the BoG are those who don't want to give up on gear/weapons that are truly much more powerful than the stuff they should be able to use going by the rules. And probably either most of those players are at level cap already, so they're never gonna outgrow that gear/weapons, or those items are of very high level - which has the same result.

    I also think that a portion of them must have unequiped the items that burdened them, so probably it's not a very large number of players who continue to defy the BoG.
    If that number is really low, maybe the devs shouldn't be trying too hard to rectify them - i mean, maybe it's not worth risking to introduce serious bugs that affect every player in order to bring to the correct path a small minority... Maybe they should be aiming their efforts exclusively on those few, and i wonder why it's so difficult for them to do so (if it's really a problem worth spendiing dev-time on).
    Last edited by Grecan; 11-24-2013 at 12:13 PM.
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  20. #80
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    Default about bards

    I agree that the "Spell song vigor" fix is unnecessary. Bards already are one of the weakest classes of the game, if not the weakest. WC capstone is useless: it only lasts 12 seconds, if you cast it again during a fight, you'll end dead before the song is over. Fatesinger capstone is also useless, since it does not work against bosses.
    Why bards have to be punished more? I love to play them, but I am not surprised when I see a first time sorcerer can be more effective than my completionist bard. In particular, in the SS tree you have to spend many useless points to be able to get SS vigor and Sustaining song.

    There was only one reason to be a SS: the spell song vigor working on party. If it will be fixed, SS will be dead again, like it used to be before the enhancement revamp.

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