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  1. #21
    Community Member Rakuda13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Zephyr- View Post
    How is a VIP buying a 12 month sub once a year providing any more "constant monthly" benefit than a premium player ?



    And, why ?
    Because you dont have to make a improvements to the game for VIPs.If they pay in one chunk you have a whole year before you have to worry about fixing bugs and adding new content.
    So they give VIP perks for putting up with the bad stuff.Its like the gym membership that people pay for then never go to the gym.

    If everybody was Premium Turbine would have to make something worth buying all the time. Im premium and i bought the last expansion,other than that there has been no reason for me to buy anything with real money.
    But even VIP had to buy that expansion so Im not sure why people still go VIP other than XP and elite opener.
    If anything they should add more for VIP as I feel they are not really getting much more than i get.

    I like DDO but there isnt a reason for me to go VIP,as i enjoy playing the game and earning stuff.

    Things i would pay for.
    Gnome race
    Kobold race
    More quests
    A new monster manual.

    So you can see what I would pay for isnt easy to do.
    VIPs pay for a few extra perks,but really get nothing special.

  2. #22
    Community Member Xaxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morkahn82 View Post
    Vip players getting various benefits, which is absolutely(!) justified, they might even deserve more, but that is not the topic here.

    But isn't it maybe time to also thank the premium players, which saved the game from closing in 2009? And I am not(!) talking about those premium accounts who invested 5 bucks to buy one pack or class. I am talking about those premium members, who bought every single adventure pack, expansion, class, race and account upgrade. Maybe it is time to grant them a little bonus or status between premium and vip, maybe +3-5% xp when vip get +10%, so they do not feel that subclass as I think they do now. But maybe I am just dreaming. And it might be hard to implement. But it would also force premium player who almost own everything to buy everything possible.

    I would also pay for some of the perks vip get, like changing destinies wo running to fatespinner etc. if you only provide them as unlock. I even would go vip if I start to play ddo from the scratch. But I will not go vip since I already own all content, so that will never happen, maybe I am too rational or bullheaded. Just a few thoughts. Great fan.
    Ok two things....

    number 1, benefits for subscribers that f2p players don't get is about the only way to keep subscribers In most f2p hybrid models......

    number 2. I am massively tired of seeing people with a post sept 2009 join date mention that (free to play saved the game blah blah blah).... wrooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnngggggggggggggggg the f2p transition is what nearly killed this game. The 15 months of time between mod 7 and mod 9 (f2p) was what almost killed this game. Vast and mysterious they kept calling their big project over that whole timeline, and it turned out to be eberron unlimited (f2p). During that time.. you know lets go back even to mod 6.... Mod 6 was shroud and one of the most popular mods or updates the game ever saw and that kept people busy for a while, that was end of January 08. Next mod was May 08 I believe, and that was the Hox and Vod.... popular raids... but only two short raids. Next up was mod 8 with Reavers Reach in Nov 08. With its systems it was pretty well reviled.

    The next mod was in april/may of 09... oh wait no that was pushed back to f2p so that f2p could launch with level 20.... were we told this was happening after the april lamania test that saw us playing around on the devils battle field... NOOOOOOOPE. It just disappeared, and they wouldn't say a danged thing until f2p transition was announced in july. So we went 15 months between mod 7 and 9... you know you could say going back to mod 6 this began. They started talking about v&m between 6 and 7. The amount of development time that the main game got suffered MASIVELY because of all the work they were doing on v&m(f2p)... that lack of content, lack of communication, lack of updates, lack of virtually anything outside of the comments about wait to see what we're working on.. blah blah blah blah stuff. The master list of what prestigest that were coming was released during this dead time.... and what a surprise virtually none of that list that wasn't already in effect ever came about. Oh that list was used for our current trees and some of their abilities, but that's not what we were told back then we were getting.

    Lets also look at the *schedule* pre and post f2p. They said around mod 4 or mod 5 that they wanted to get a mod out every quarter..... and they never once lived up to that for a year. With the time frame of 4 updates over an almost two year period during f2p development they basically doubled what they *wanted* to do time wise. Since f2p came around, the first couple of updates came fast for ddo. Every 2 months or so for the first couple. What did they say, yeah we wanna update the game every two monhts. That rapid content updates was because they had backlog that was made for f2p and not for pree f2p.... content that should have been the stuff for f2p release and not u9. Now.... yeah every 2 months looooool.

    The subscription numbers over that two years just dropped and dropped and dropped. Shroud was a rather big high for the game for about 3-4 months... but after that lack of content lack of really anything drove away a rather massive part of the player base..... and all the time they were working on what you and so many others say saved the game. Wroooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong . F2p's development is one of the major things that was killing this game. Before anyone gives the cancer/radiation person gets worse before they get better response..... the game was at a high point during shroud (mod 6).... and the massive slide started witht he content gap and then lack of content in mod 7 and that's about the time they started talking about f2p. Sorry a medicine doesn't get credit for saving someones but if they were made sick basically on purpose so said medicine could save them.

    f2p did NOT save this game and premiums do not deserve anything that should be a subscriber perk only. Like what I said, don't like what I said.... I was there on and off through most of it, From the grindy grindy of shroud, tot he disappointment of 7, to the rage of 8, taking a break, coming back for a while until we tested 9 and then leveing again after 9 disappeared, and coming back a month before f2p. I was here and around to see the whole rollercoaster ride this game went through. So the next time you or someone else says that f2p saved the game, remember the history of what your talking about. If you think im full of stuff.... go start digging around. Flame me, roast me, do whatever but the truth is the truth.

  3. #23
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xaxx View Post
    Good game history post.
    The MMOdata.net site has the population spiking higher in 2009 just after f2p launch and that is what a lot of people look at when they say f2p saved the game. What many didn't see was the ATARI situation where they were still holding the license basically hostage and would not allocate to what they had promised - more content development. What we can see from those numbers now is that the development of f2p almost killed the game, the f2p launch was population spike which likely correlates to a good cash injection in the short term. This is where people claim it "saved" the game. Once people got what they wanted out of premium by paying lump sum, they weren't required to pay a dime afterward. Many still do, but many don't as well. So as far as "saving the game" may be with a short term cash injection after launch, but not in the long term. Turbine has possibly finally come to realize that the plan which obligates steady payment is what they can count on for revenue.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  4. #24
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xaxx View Post
    ...
    Making DDO F2P has attracted many new people which ended up paying anyway (I'm one of them). With a subscriber only system you lose a lot of potential customers, because a substantial fraction of people likes to try before subscribing. I think it's safe to conclude that F2P has led to a substantial increase in revenues and players, at least in 2009. Then again, it can also be true that many players have left because of lack of new content. I don't think you can fully blame that on development of F2P; creation of content has been slow even after the introduction of F2P.

  5. #25
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    Premium player here, and one who would never ask for stuff for free. If my situation allowed for it, I'd happily be VIP. Instead, I support the game when I can. Have purchased collector editions of both expansions, etc.

    Monster manuals were definitely a good investment. I will eagerly get any others that the devs see fit to make. I would like to be able to open elite, but probably that is a good reward for making it to third life on a toon. So I don't really have any complaints.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forzah View Post
    Making DDO F2P has attracted many new people which ended up paying anyway (I'm one of them). With a subscriber only system you lose a lot of potential customers, because a substantial fraction of people likes to try before subscribing. I think it's safe to conclude that F2P has led to a substantial increase in revenues and players, at least in 2009. Then again, it can also be true that many players have left because of lack of new content. I don't think you can fully blame that on development of F2P; creation of content has been slow even after the introduction of F2P.
    I am another one who would never have even tried this game if not for being able to try it for free. I was interested in it when it first came out, but I didn't want to have to buy software and pay a subscription fee anymore.

  7. #27
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    I don't like what vip offers, so I don't buy it.

    It'd be nice to have extra stuff for free, depending how much each player spent.

    I'd pay somewhere between 3 and 5 dollars/month for the only vip perk that matters: elite open, but its meh, if I can put LFM or play with guild.
    Can't you still get 1 year of VIP for $99? (or was that special limited deal?) Because that's $8.25 a month... If you're willing to pay $5 a month for elite open, you don't think 500 TPs, 10%-15% exp boost, free weekly gold rolls, etc are worth $3.25 a month? (If you buy any TP at all, $3 for 500 TP is decent all by itself).
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  8. #28
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    You can add my name to those who would never have played DDO were it not for F2P.

    Pre VIP I bought 75% of the Quest Content, Drow {yes I was that Dumb!}, FavSoul, Warforged, H-Orc/H-Elf, Vet Status, 32 pt Build etc. etc. + a multitude of Gold Seal Hirelings and sundry other items.

    Post VIP I've Bought each and every Expansion and Bonus, Artificer {Yes Bought NOT Favour Farmed!}, Hearts of Wood, Otto's Boxes, A Bigby's Box {just the one} and many many more Gold Seal Hirelings and Sundry other items.

    Let's not mention the Cosmetic Armours/Kits, Helms, Pets and of course the ubiquitous +1 weapons back when I was a Newbie {+ a couple of bows later on when I found myself in a quest that required said item and didn't want to restart!}.

    AND STILL VIP!

    There were basically 2 reasons why I gave this game a chance when told about it:

    1) It was F2P {Yeah I know I was conned there!}.

    2) It was D&D {Conned there too!}.

    2 would have made no difference whatsoever though had it not been for 1!

    No F2P = No Me playing this game! {now whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is up to you but it's an undeniable fact!}.

  9. #29
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    I am a Premium player and have never been VIP. I'm also an impulse buyer. What does a VIP membership cost? $100/year? Perhaps I should have been smarter and went that way, but I hate being tied into a monthly commitment like that. Instead I buy in bursts. $40 here, $50 there, etc. I can guarantee that I have spent well more than $100 a year in all but my first year which was nice to ease into the game to see if I'd enjoy it first.

    I own all the content (packs, races, classes) and I'm an Alt-oholic. I add more alts all the time and when i do I want tomes for them so off to buy more TP. I don't have a single character in my stable that doesn't have at least 2 or 3 store bought stat tomes used on them. I bought the expansion packs sight unseen with pre-order. I had access to Beta, but didn't really use it. Instead I stayed live and bought some more stuff.

    Sure there are bugs. Sure things fall apart, but it's not an operation run out of someone's garage. It's a professional organization, and while I don't always agree with their strategy or their focus on poor communication with the player base, I know they are backed by an even larger organization (Warner Bros) and I am not likely to see my investment just disappear. I can live with something specific being broken. Wraps not working? I'll play my PM. Death Aura not working? I'll play my AA. Etc. I don't get caught up in any one thing. I'm here for entertainment and there is enough out there in the game now to allow variety and to try other things when something isn't working. Rarely is the whole thing broken (though yesterday there was some inconvenient down time)

    That all being said I understand the OPs frustration. I've sunk just as much, if not more, money in the game as a VIP. That's what it is though. You know what you get when you start down the Premium route. Would I love to see a few more Premium perks? Absolutely. Most specifically I'd like to be able to open all instances on Elite first time. That's the only VIP perk I want. I'd even buy it from the store if it was a one time account or server level buy. Maybe after you spend $200 in real money allow it to be available as a purchase for Premium? Hey DDO listen up. That wold be even more money form Premiums.

    However if they don't change anything I get it. Everyone needs to feel special.

    Lastly I hate seeing Premiums saved DDO or Premiums didn't save DDO. You bet we did, but also so did the VIPs. Together we BOTH saved DDO. They needed revenue and we provided. It's a good model and it shows by virtue of the fact that some people insist on staying VIP and yet others, like me, refuse to be attached to a monthly commitment. In the end DDO gets our money and we all win (even the F2P)

  10. #30
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Until recently, there hadn't been much of a difference between premium and VIP. Its nice that Turbine is starting to recognize those that pay monthly. A premium can throw down cash today and not pay another dime. They can take breaks for a year at a time and still have everything they paid for. A VIP loses everything if they don't pay their sub. At least a VIP shows some kind of steady profit for at least a month at a time. The better the perks, the more likely that steady cash flow continues month to month. A premium isn't reliable enough for a continued cash flow because it depends on the individual and what they are willing to pay for.

  11. #31
    Community Member Xaxx's Avatar
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    Yes I didn't even get into the Atari hostage bend over situation. That didn't help things in the long run either. I also wont argue in the slightest that a lot of people joined in at f2p and it probably was ddo's highest numbers ever.... but also any game that goes f2p gets a massive numbers jump at f2p launch, and since ddo was one of the first major western mmos to do it, it got a lot of pub over it. On the other side, not to sound like an elitist.... if you weren't willing to even try it until it went free, I'm not sure how concerned I should be about your contribution to game's life span. I'm sorry but if you knew about the game and didn't play it because it was subscription, then in the long term of things are those people much more than bandwagon jumpers??? I know that will tick some people off, its just one way of looking at things, maybe of wrong in that one there... but I'm not on the f2p saved ddo stuff.

    Did the development delays even prior to mod 6 help things, no, but was the game in dire straits... no. Would it still be going right now without f2p going, dunno, depends on a lot of things, best guess is it would probably soldering on. There are also other factors of that time frame that didn't help ddos development (as per above the Atari fiasco, pulling ddo devs to work on lotro, etc.) Yet a lot of development time that should have went to the game, and content that was ready, went instead to the f2p work and store and costs and yada yada yada.

    Sorry guys but in the end f2p did not save this game, it almost killed it. Not the only contributing factor, but it was almost the last nail in the coffin. Rail for my above view if you want, just stop the continuation of the f2p saved u s all myth.

  12. #32
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
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    Did the development delays even prior to mod 6 help things, no, but was the game in dire straits... no. Would it still be going right now without f2p going, dunno, depends on a lot of things, best guess is it would probably soldering on. There are also other factors of that time frame that didn't help ddos development (as per above the Atari fiasco, pulling ddo devs to work on lotro, etc.) Yet a lot of development time that should have went to the game, and content that was ready, went instead to the f2p work and store and costs and yada yada yada.

    Sorry guys but in the end f2p did not save this game, it almost killed it. Not the only contributing factor, but it was almost the last nail in the coffin. Rail for my above view if you want, just stop the continuation of the f2p saved u s all myth.
    It's more likely that it saved DDO than that it killed DDO, considering DDO is still here

  13. #33
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    It's curious how you're so certain it's only a "myth". I mean I'm not saying it's true or it isn't true, but the only way you could be certain is if you had access to their financial situation. So I must be talking to their accountant, auditor or CFO. In that case greetings.

    If not you are perpetuating another rumor. The fact is none of us know for certain if anything saved the game or if it even needed saving. Maybe they were flush with cash and could sustain that model in perpetuity. Maybe they just needed more players to justify creating more content so it was an investment for the future. Who knows.

    Here's a possible "myth" as well: What is likely (and again not true unless confirmed through financial statements) is that going F2P with Premium players has brought in more cash on an annual basis. Now whether this cash is realized as profit or not compared to their expenses only they know. Assuming it is though and that's why they keep the doors open and expanding, then it's very likely that at the very least going F2P has allowed for all these content additions.

    Maybe without going F2P you guys would all be sitting around capped at level 15 or whatever they got around to and running Von 5/6 dreaming thoughts of outside Eberron until you went silly. I'm sure there are purists out there that might want just that and that's OK. They can still just only do old content. But I'm sure Turbine is excited about more revenue coming in.

    You should also consider that in the old P2P environment my guess would be that they would have had to raise the annual subscription price at least once in the last 4 years to account for rising expenses. I mean you can't buy a loaf of bread for 25 cents any more. Am I right? I am basing this on speculation only and maybe they weren't seeing a growth in their player base which would allow them to offset raising costs by higher income from more players. How many would have been fed up with fewer mods (because no extra money from Premium players to fund all the updates) and jumped ship. Which would mean subscriptions would have to be increased again to cover the people leaving.

    Food for thought, but again all speculation. Which is the same as your opinion that it's a myth.

  14. #34
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Can't you still get 1 year of VIP for $99? (or was that special limited deal?) Because that's $8.25 a month... If you're willing to pay $5 a month for elite open, you don't think 500 TPs, 10%-15% exp boost, free weekly gold rolls, etc are worth $3.25 a month? (If you buy any TP at all, $3 for 500 TP is decent all by itself).
    I dont know if i have ever seen anyone question the actual price of VIP up til now, because even at the old 15 dollar a month standard, that was ~50 cents per day. I used to play one arcade game for that in a mall arcade in the 80s. I used to bring this up alot back when wed get that threat per week where people were trying to defend their payment method like it was clearly the best.

    The complaints I see are usually centered around the erosion of VIP benefits in previous eras, or the buffing of those benefits in the current era.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  15. #35
    Community Member Xaxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RumbIe View Post
    It's curious how you're so certain it's only a "myth". I mean I'm not saying it's true or it isn't true, but the only way you could be certain is if you had access to their financial situation. So I must be talking to their accountant, auditor or CFO. In that case greetings.

    If not you are perpetuating another rumor. The fact is none of us know for certain if anything saved the game or if it even needed saving. Maybe they were flush with cash and could sustain that model in perpetuity. Maybe they just needed more players to justify creating more content so it was an investment for the future. Who knows.

    Here's a possible "myth" as well: What is likely (and again not true unless confirmed through financial statements) is that going F2P with Premium players has brought in more cash on an annual basis. Now whether this cash is realized as profit or not compared to their expenses only they know. Assuming it is though and that's why they keep the doors open and expanding, then it's very likely that at the very least going F2P has allowed for all these content additions.

    Maybe without going F2P you guys would all be sitting around capped at level 15 or whatever they got around to and running Von 5/6 dreaming thoughts of outside Eberron until you went silly. I'm sure there are purists out there that might want just that and that's OK. They can still just only do old content. But I'm sure Turbine is excited about more revenue coming in.

    You should also consider that in the old P2P environment my guess would be that they would have had to raise the annual subscription price at least once in the last 4 years to account for rising expenses. I mean you can't buy a loaf of bread for 25 cents any more. Am I right? I am basing this on speculation only and maybe they weren't seeing a growth in their player base which would allow them to offset raising costs by higher income from more players. How many would have been fed up with fewer mods (because no extra money from Premium players to fund all the updates) and jumped ship. Which would mean subscriptions would have to be increased again to cover the people leaving.

    Food for thought, but again all speculation. Which is the same as your opinion that it's a myth.
    All you really need is the general sub numbers that they did release and server population health in the time frame. Also, I never said the f2p model hasn't made them more money in the long run, it seems to have upped their bottom line, atleast it did for a while. It upped it enough to help them convince wb to front the money for a big hiring spree to produce motu... but the left go a massive portion of the staff hired for motu... that's never a good sign financially especially since the started development on another *expansion* right after it, yet they still let all those people go.

    Was f2p good for turbine's wallet in 10-12.... I don't think anyone will argue that it was a failure for their wallet. As per above, f2p did not save ddo, it helped to almost kill it. I made no statements about its financial impact after f2p reflecting on f2p itself.

    As for the 15 bucks a month thing.... has the price of wow gone up, has the price of eq, eq2.... shall I keep going... gone up? Look at Elder Scrolls Online.... eso announced they were going to subscription model and that it would be 15 a month and people complained about it in todays f2p environment. It would take real big brass ones to go up to 20 or 25 a month for any mmo. Even 15 years into the development of the market, the general price per month never changed.

    Am I a turbine employee... LOL heck no. Do I have insider info, no. Do I have access to the same base line info you can see, and was I here during this time to see the b and flow of the game populations, to see the forum traffic, and dev traffic on the forums.... yes.

    I made a statement on one thing, I didn't say that f2p was a failure, that in the end it was bad for the game, or that its this that or anything else. I simply wish people to stop with the myth of *f2p saved ddo*.

    My last post in this thread, call it an opinion or whatever you want. Fact Is fact here, sorry bucko.

  16. #36
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    Well I'm glad it's your last post so I can now say what I want........ Authentic Mexican Cuisine has NOTHING on Taco Bell. Such yummy goodness. And healthy and good for you too.

    Now see. You're going to let that statement go unchecked. That's irresponsible.

    In any case your whole argument is rife with opinion. You can't just say facts are facts after all that speculation and make it become fact.

    1) They let programmers go after MOTU. OK. Maybe I'll give you that one. I think we all saw that some were let go. Do we know the reason? Nope. Not beyond speculation. Maybe their QA team found a ton of coding errors so they replaced them? Maybe the QA missed a ton of errors so they replaced them? Maybe some of them made a ridiculous statement about h ow great Taco Bell was and it offended the higher ups and they let them go. I'm not sure how it's relevant. A lot of times companies will high temp help for special projects or outside consultants. It's not a sign of anything financially. In fact sometimes it can show financial restraint.

    2) You don't think anyone can argue it was a failure for their wallet? Well I do. So there. Now it's opinion and not fact. Not sure what you're basing your statement on. More money is generally a good thing for your wallet. At least it is for mine. Unless you mean their physical and actual wallet. I mean if it was leather and there was too much money in there it might split open. In which case I would agree that more money is bad for your wallet. So I guess you are right.

    3) DDO is not WOW. Not even close. Especially not back then. Especially from a financing perspective. You are correct that there is an acceptable market place expectation on subscription fees and the market will only be able to charge what the market will allow, but if over time DDO lost players or even remained stagnant they woudl have to have considered it. Tons of speculation on my part. Maybe without the inflow of Premium money they woudl still have expanded and grew their player base, but was certainly easier with more cash.

    4) You in fact did say "Sorry guys but in the end f2p did not save this game, it almost killed it. Not the only contributing factor, but it was almost the last nail in the coffin".

    Anyways. I stand by my Taco Bell statement and fact is fact.

  17. #37
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    A premium player who consistently buys new content is not any greater or worse than a VIP which is why I personally rthink the names should be changed to A-La-Carte and Subscription their just different payment models.

    Also if the majproity of premiums haven't purchased the recent content (hypothetically) than clearly nobody wants said content and the devs did something wrong...this is better for the health of the game than someone who pays each mpnth so they don't lose access to all their stuff.

    IOW premiums can speak with their wallets without issue whereas VIPs get a major handicap if they do so, at least with DDO your not completely locked out of the game like the few remaining sub games...there's a reason I've sworn to never pay a monthly sub for a game ever again...I play A-La-Carte games in which i probably spend overall more than 15$ a month but I do it on my terms and thats all that matters too me...Wildstar lost me the second they announced P2P...it won't last long after release though so I'll just wait.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  18. #38
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RumbIe View Post
    I am a Premium player and have never been VIP. I'm also an impulse buyer. What does a VIP membership cost? $100/year? Perhaps I should have been smarter and went that way, but I hate being tied into a monthly commitment like that. Instead I buy in bursts. $40 here, $50 there, etc. I can guarantee that I have spent well more than $100 a year in all but my first year which was nice to ease into the game to see if I'd enjoy it first.

    I own all the content (packs, races, classes) and I'm an Alt-oholic. I add more alts all the time and when i do I want tomes for them so off to buy more TP. I don't have a single character in my stable that doesn't have at least 2 or 3 store bought stat tomes used on them. I bought the expansion packs sight unseen with pre-order. I had access to Beta, but didn't really use it. Instead I stayed live and bought some more stuff.

    Sure there are bugs. Sure things fall apart, but it's not an operation run out of someone's garage. It's a professional organization, and while I don't always agree with their strategy or their focus on poor communication with the player base, I know they are backed by an even larger organization (Warner Bros) and I am not likely to see my investment just disappear. I can live with something specific being broken. Wraps not working? I'll play my PM. Death Aura not working? I'll play my AA. Etc. I don't get caught up in any one thing. I'm here for entertainment and there is enough out there in the game now to allow variety and to try other things when something isn't working. Rarely is the whole thing broken (though yesterday there was some inconvenient down time)

    That all being said I understand the OPs frustration. I've sunk just as much, if not more, money in the game as a VIP. That's what it is though. You know what you get when you start down the Premium route. Would I love to see a few more Premium perks? Absolutely. Most specifically I'd like to be able to open all instances on Elite first time. That's the only VIP perk I want. I'd even buy it from the store if it was a one time account or server level buy. Maybe after you spend $200 in real money allow it to be available as a purchase for Premium? Hey DDO listen up. That wold be even more money form Premiums.

    However if they don't change anything I get it. Everyone needs to feel special.

    Lastly I hate seeing Premiums saved DDO or Premiums didn't save DDO. You bet we did, but also so did the VIPs. Together we BOTH saved DDO. They needed revenue and we provided. It's a good model and it shows by virtue of the fact that some people insist on staying VIP and yet others, like me, refuse to be attached to a monthly commitment. In the end DDO gets our money and we all win (even the F2P)
    Impulse buyers who go VIP usually stay impulse buyers, which means that being premium does NOT mean that you pay more, it just means that you dont pay the monthly fee. You might be spending more as a premium, but you are just as likely to be spending less
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  19. #39
    Community Member gordgray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forzah View Post
    Bad idea; this removes several of the reasons to go VIP. For Turbine VIPs provide a constant monthly benefit, which is preferable over the uncertain benefit received from premium players. VIP simply has to offer more than premium.
    Not aimed at you^^^^.

    But I am a Player that has done as the OP has stated and I don't want any thing I don't pay for were as if I were a V.I.P. I'd need to feel entitled.

    So when the server goes down I could come to the forums and cry that I am being cheated every time the system goes down, a player will start a thread saying that DDO owes them something and I don't want to be in that class. So not Singed.
    The Rogues Guild - Sarlona
    How did that get in here? Hay give that back O that’s yours? Sorry
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    Impulse buyers who go VIP usually stay impulse buyers, which means that being premium does NOT mean that you pay more, it just means that you dont pay the monthly fee. You might be spending more as a premium, but you are just as likely to be spending less
    Fair enough and agreed. I'm not saying I spend more than a VIP. I have no idea actually as each person is different. Though please consider that VIPs get free TP to spend and I wouldn't consider that "spending". Though I'm sure you meant above and beyond. If I was VIP, as you rightly noted, I would probably do the same. No idea if it would be more than I spend now.

    My initial statement though was that I think that Premium players did in fact save DDO. However VIP members also did. It was our combined revenue. Not any single one of us. Turbine was smart enough to create a billing model that allowed for both types of spenders.

    Now to the OPs direct point. I would not sign for huge additions to Premium players. We shouldn't just be handed anything more for free. Honestly it would be cool if Premium "perks" were almost like Favor rewards. After purchasing 10,000 TP you can now buy a movement boost in public areas. X TP per server(One time fee, but not per account). At 20,000 TP you can buy Elite opening for Y TP per server (one time). It would reward Premium players who spend more, but not directly just hand it over to them. They woudl still have to buy it, while VIPs still get it free. I was using the amount of TP as example, could be any amount, but tie it to how much a person might spend in a year or two. How much is 10k TP? I think you can get 11K TP for $100. So maybe make it 15k TP for frist reward. The equaivalent of 1 1/2 years of VIP.

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