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  1. #181
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    Thumbs up Have fun and don't overdo it

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    You can control that yourself. You can make THIS game relaxing and fun, if you so choose.

    "Moderation in all things."
    Indeed, I cannot imagine doing a game and "grinding" my way through the whole of it only to find I did all the content, have all the completions and am now the most powerfull character with all the right gear - but I had no fun doing it and now I don't know what to play with the character because I feel sick "having" to do the same content over again.

    Just play the game, do quests you like with people you have fun with (or alone if thats your thing, maybe having guildchat running along) and eventually you will earn the XP, the Karma and the Valor. And if now, who cares, because you had fun playing.

  2. #182
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    better idea . .. don't ETR at all and spend my time/money on better games.

    I've seen the light!
    A lot of people have come to that conlusion since U14, the low server population seems to agree with your conclusion.

    Quote Originally Posted by onivedlav View Post
    The cost of epic hearts needs to be cut in half.
    I ETR the day it was released, with store bought heart, thinking i would be able to get the comms i needed once i reached cap again.
    Well to my disappointment in 2 days i was cap and with 1700 comms. 2500 short of what i need! Now it's a pointless grind. I'm stuck playing a maxed out toon that doesn't need anything except Epic PL.

    Cut the price of Hearts to 2200 Commendations. For the average player that's weeks of farm! Are you selling that many hearts on store? I bought one, and I regret it, for contributing to this messed up system.
    The ammount of comms should be halved, and i wouldn't put money in their hands after all the halve finished jobs they pulled lately, they might feel rewarded and keep doing it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leclaire1 View Post
    long but informative post, snipped for length
    On my main i have lots of melee gear, if i need to play a caster to fill caster destinies i simply won't do it, the past lives are not worth the pain of running in epics on casters without propper gear, i refuse to play them at all for pastlives.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katie_Seaglen View Post
    They can make their money selling cosmetics, monster manuals, tomes of learning, xp pots, stat tomes, bank space, augments, adventure packs, premium races and classes, and yes even the dreaded expansion packs. But they will make no money if players leave because they aren't making any progress. This is my fundamental point. If the game isn't rewarding, and by rewarding I do specifically mean that feeling of advancement, then people will leave. People who leave don't buy anything.

    There are things that are smart and appealing to sell -content, fluff, features, even advancement. There are things that are dumb to sell -chief among these are tools to remove arbitrary obstacles to advancement. This is sigils of leveling all over again. It's an ill-conceived paywall that is guaranteed to drive people off and will not bring one new player to the game.
    They tried selling packs (something i prefer), but the Fearun content was so badly made that people either stopped playing or stopped paying.
    Their latest 2 pack expansion was a downright mess and instead of fixing it, they moved on, bad move creating bad atmosphere amongst the playerbase.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    Yes, Heart Seeds can go into ingredient bags.
    Have you guys considered dropping the entire valor com plan (as your paying customer base has recommended) in favor for the epic tokens?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Let me know if you find any... DDO is still the best MMO out there.
    In your humble opinion....

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    You can control that yourself. You can make THIS game relaxing and fun, if you so choose.

    "Moderation in all things."
    After getting screwed over by bait and switch tactics, expencive failed expansion, nerfs, bad writhing, i think they owe us some awnsers and propper fixes, some monetary compensation would be nice too.

    getting the raiders box must have been awesome too lowbies and noobs, we on the other hand already found out the hard way that besides the qstaf and bow, the rest is junk, made even more evedent by the latest nerfs (nighmare bsword).
    I rather had a list of Evon/EDQ base items and shards, atleast it has some relevent gear.

    In other words, they're messing things up and expect us to pay for it, why do you wonder why some people get peeved at this?
    I'm not even the angry one here, some left fuming.
    My intrest is not only the sup par stuf they come up with, though it anoyes me, it's mainly the bad stuff that make my friends leave that botheres me.
    i still remember having 4 marketplace instances, i remember full lists of lfm's, i remember harbor chat (though not always fondly XD), i remember being able to fill a shroud within 30 min, i have fond memories of friends that have left over the years due to bad decisions by Turbine.
    And with me, a few others.

    Do you have enough empathy to understand that? (i'm not asking you to agree)

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkofDrasnia View Post
    Except we would then be needing to gather both types thus more junk in our bags. Like I said this change is designed to make us buy hearts from the store and use up more bag space.
    The first part of course. Or lets just say, they want to make buying them from the store an attractive option. I really don't think they put a lot of thought into bag space one way or the other, which is why they are having to deal with the issue now. I doubt that they feel selling a few more bags is worth any backlash. They just didn't think things through.

    The big issue they have is, I think, they wanted buying epic hearts as opposed to grinding them to be seen more like buying TP's as opposed to grinding. Instead, it's actually been called P2W and seen more as avoiding actually playing the game to buy one, with the devs simply not getting the numbers right on it.

    No, eTRing is supposed to be providing the sort of steady revenue the game needs for it to be worth their time to keep developing in my estimation. Non-expansion content development is likely more an expense than a revenue earner at this stage and seen as only useful for keeping players around and paying for those eTRs. There simply aren't enough of premiums left to buy them to actually make anything at the sort of price points they've gotten us used to as the content costs just as much to develop for a hundred customers as it does for a million.

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyrecono View Post
    After getting screwed over by bait and switch tactics, expencive failed expansion, nerfs, bad writhing, i think they owe us some awnsers and propper fixes, some monetary compensation would be nice too.
    For what? Don't like it, don't play. But don't act like they owe you answers, much less money, for not not offering you what you want.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    That's exactly my point.

    /places tinfoil hat firmly on head

    So Turbine puts all sorts of effort into coms of valor and the epic and iconic TR system. Eventually, they relent enough that players are at least somewhat happy with the results. Com turn in rates are seen as high by many and out of whack with the original dev posted intent. We eventually adapt and perhaps they even lower the cost to cheers from the players.

    A few months pass

    A new raid is released... with many cheers from the players. An upgrade system is put in place that allows you to use coms of valor for upgrades. This turns out to be the only way to upgrade the items. Players start using their stashed coms for upgrades and then have nothing left for epic TR. They are then encouraged to go to the DDO store for hearts. Our com rate remains the same, however we are now given more uses for those coms. And maybe this was Turbine's plan all along. The TR system was just a diversion. Coms were always meant for these other upgrades and we're met with a virtual bait and switch for the TR system. The costs are effectively increased and we've all been fooled. This is the only explanation I can come up with for their adamant refusal to go with bta coms. This additional use (or something similar) was planned from the start and btc coms were a necessity to make it work. The hearts and coms used for hearts are now essentially completely bta so the heart use has no bearing on the binding status of the coms any more.
    Seems about right.

    It's similar to how coms of heroism worked. At first, you needed them ONLY for the new red and green armor. And the drop rate was poor, but it was ok because they only had one minor use and you might need at most 3 per toon. Then Turbine found their "mistake" regarding weapon upgrades and now you needed 3 per weapon, in addition to the new Antipode which was added. OK, it's getting tougher to get the coms needed but still doable. Then they add a couple upgrade tiers on the weapons at 5 and 7 coms while increasing drop rates by a small amount. With only CitW to play, we're starting to get a serious shortage of coms. FoT was added later with a much higher com rate, but CitW was never touched again. They increased the demand for coms over time without increasing the rate of acquisition in CitW to match. I worry a similar situation may be in store with coms of valor. They will continue to add additional uses for them without increasing our potential rate of acquisition, which narrows down what we end up using them on. If we feel that the cost of hearts is high right now, imagine if you also have to use those same coms for other essential uses later like loot upgrades.
    I don't get how this is to Turbines advantage. Nor how adding more upgrade levels is part of some nefarious plan. They added to the things we could use them for beyond the original 3, just seems to add more reasons to keep playing the game to me.
    Don't even get me started on what may happen a few years down the road. Our characters get better and we start breezing through quests faster and faster. Suddenly, we are actually acquiring coms of valor faster than "intended" though completely within the rules of the game. History shows us how they will deal with this. The same way they tried to deal with players having too many tokens of the twelve. They attempted to completely abandon the old speedy system with a new one that would take 10 times as long for the same result. Players were not pleased. I wonder if Turbine has planned for the future with coms of valor the same way. Are we inevitably headed toward a nerf or new system for epic TR a few years from now when, through the normal course of player advancement, we start collecting "too fast" for Turbine?
    Well, we can always just not play their game, either literally or figuratively depending on how much eTRing means to our enjoyment. The way I see it they are planning to offer us more than we can conceivably get simply by playing in the hopes we buy what we can't play for. Personally, I'll likely just play for what I can and not worry about the rest as I still wont be any worse off than if it was never offered in the first place.

    In the end Turbine's going to do what Turbine's going to do regardless of what we want them to do. We just decide whether the game they offer us is something we want to play.

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    They could do exactly that, except they have mysterious plans for other things for us to spend our coms on and whatever that mysterious thing is, it's quite important for them that we not be able to buy it for alts. It appears to me that they are jumping through hoops so that they can make this mysterious thing happen. Whatever it is, it's trumping functionality for both coms of valor and hearts of wood so I'd imagine that the devs feel it's pretty important for the game. Until we know exactly what this mysterious thing is that's so important that is uses the same system as epic and iconic hearts, it's hard to judge whether it's a good idea or not. Some speculation is that coms will be used for item upgrades, perhaps new raid gear or upgrading from EN to EH or EE items, but that's mostly speculation.

    As much as I dislike the idea of new systems and new ingredients, I think that epic and iconic reincarnation deserve their own system and currency and shouldn't be lumped in together with much more than a few minor extras like the already introduced pots to give a use for coms for people that have no interest in TR or will just buy the hearts anyway. Lumping another major system into this one is something that I can only see as troublesome.
    Another currency along side the one needed to TR would kind of defeat their purpose. As far as I can tell, they are letting us eTR with some difficulty with comms in order to give us something we want even more to spend them on in order to get us to choose to get our eTR hearts from the store so we can have more of this other thing. Rather than force us to eTR with store hearts, they would be offering us something else we can have and letting our greed to have it all do the rest. I simply don't have a problem with that, then again I came to terms with having it all meaning spending more money on this game a long time ago. Some just seem to think they shouldn't even offer us more than what the average player can get through normal game play.

  7. #187
    Community Member SilkofDrasnia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    The first part of course. Or lets just say, they want to make buying them from the store an attractive option. I really don't think they put a lot of thought into bag space one way or the other, which is why they are having to deal with the issue now. I doubt that they feel selling a few more bags is worth any backlash. They just didn't think things through.

    The big issue they have is, I think, they wanted buying epic hearts as opposed to grinding them to be seen more like buying TP's as opposed to grinding. Instead, it's actually been called P2W and seen more as avoiding actually playing the game to buy one, with the devs simply not getting the numbers right on it.

    No, eTRing is supposed to be providing the sort of steady revenue the game needs for it to be worth their time to keep developing in my estimation. Non-expansion content development is likely more an expense than a revenue earner at this stage and seen as only useful for keeping players around and paying for those eTRs. There simply aren't enough of premiums left to buy them to actually make anything at the sort of price points they've gotten us used to as the content costs just as much to develop for a hundred customers as it does for a million.

    Aye I get that and I wasn't meaning to say their main goal was using up bag space, it was prob just a small bonus for em. They didnt think about xp pots and the like though I mean what is the point of buying them or epic xp tomes if the grind is so big.

    Seems to me what they will make in eheart sales will just be what they lose in pot sales. Maybe if the heart were reasonably priced but at what 20$ a pop no friggin thank you.

    I will never buy a Eheart at that price.
    Last edited by SilkofDrasnia; 11-22-2013 at 06:29 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    Insulting the development team is not allowed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jendrak
    Somebody should definitely explain to Turbine that when they roll up a new GM that INT is not dump stat.

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkofDrasnia View Post
    Aye I get that and I wasn't meaning to say their main goal was using up bag space, it was prob just a small bonus for em. They didnt think about xp pots and the like though I mean what is the point of buying them or epic xp tomes if the grind is so big.
    Probably the same thing I would think. That anyone who would buy pots to reduce xp grind would likely buy hearts to eliminate comm grind.

    Frankly, I don't plan on buying any hearts myself. Not because I have a problem with the price. But simply because epic play is much the same regardless of level. So if I'm grinding comms for my first epic TR or grinding xp for my forth the game plays pretty much the same. Epic TR to me has more to do with having some kind of goal to play for than how much power that goal offers or how quickly I attain it. A long comm grind is actually a good thing in my book as it extends the time I'll have some sort of goal to play towards.

  9. #189
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    For what? Don't like it, don't play. But don't act like they owe you answers, much less money, for not not offering you what you want.
    That kind of thinking: * Don't like it, don't play.* made plenty of people leave so far, how empty do you want your server to become?
    I don't want that, that's why i'm here on the forum

    As far as owing answers go: the company that we all pay to keep running owes all those people answers for the mess they make of it, accountability and all.
    It's not just what i want but what (apparently)many want.
    It's about all the stuff we point out on Lamania and get ignored, gets fixed, bugged, re fixed and nerfed. Why ask us to review/test it only to ignore it? If NASA had that kind of QA, we would never reached the moon or build a space station(sorta).
    It's about presenting something nice , selling it in the store, then changing how it works, making it useless without compensating for it, yes this is covered in the agreement, that doesn't mean we have to take it bending over. I prefer to stay critical and call them out on it.

  10. #190
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satyriasys View Post
    The devs even asked us if we think epic feats should be usable in heroics, and while a few of us were against it we were outnumbered by those who wanted it. This is also why the epic feats we got are on the weaker side, to balance for heroics. A very poor decision in my opinion. Since epic TR brings you to level 20 these really have no place in heroics.
    When did they ask that?
    I didnt see it anywhere.

  11. #191
    Community Member Flavilandile's Avatar
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    Sooo, Still no news regarding scraping the whole Seed idea and just making Commendations of Valor BTA.

    For :
    - Less complexity ( just commendations to deal with )
    - No development involved ( just changing wholesome BTC to BTA we know it's easy and relatively fail proof )
    - Less Bag space wasted for players
    - One less Ingredient to deal with.
    - and more


    Against :
    - No Idea, honestly, Turbine has never given us a valid reason for BTC ( and no : We want them that way because more stuff will be bought with them is NOT a valid reason )
    On G-Land : Flavilandile, Blacklock, Yaelle, Millishande, Larilandile, Gildalinde, Tenalafel, and many other...

  12. #192
    Community Member Satyriasys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    When did they ask that?
    I didnt see it anywhere.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post

    They do in fact function in Heroic content at level 1.

    We're happy to hear further feedback on whether or not you guys desire this, or if we should eliminate them functioning below level 20.
    From this thread.
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  13. #193
    Hero rosedarkthorn's Avatar
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    Here are my problems with this system:

    1. 4200 Comms of Valor is still too high.
    2. Having to take Comm of Valor in the end reward instead of renown sucks for small guilds like mine. I really, really dislike this and would prefer if they dropped in end chests.
    3. It still doesn't solve the issue of one of my characters having 50 Comms, another having 30 and another having 8.

    Maybe getting 100 doesn't take very long, but that doesn't solve the issues of not being able to have all my Comms in one place, or the fact that, once turned into seeds, I can't turn them back into Comms if I change my mind about what I want to use them for. What if I'm in the middle of collecting them for an ETR and then I discover this new item I can trade them for, but I can't because I already changed them all into seeds? In my opinion, this just creates more problems. Instead of putting band-aids on certain issues, it would be better to find permanent fixes, like making them BTA, for example.

  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Am I the only one who thinks the 6 million karma thing is the worst part of this system?
    In my opinion yes. even the toons I only play occasionally and have only opened up a couple of EDS have 6 million; no big deal.

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyr View Post
    Great post.

    The number one thing Turbine needs is to keep players playing.

    TR was an important mechanic for that reason. It gave people an incentive to keep playing the game while Turbine struggled to bring out more endgame content.

    With the current endgame situation being the worst I have experienced in DDO's history due to a variety of poor design choices ER and Iconc TR Is needed even more then TR was back in the day.

    Yet Turbine these systems have been implemented in a manner which seriously detracts from this primary goal critical to retaining customers.

    In very basic terms there are two basic types of issues with Turbine's implementation here. First, is trying to monetize the ER process directly by making the comm drop rate and method poor making store purchases more likely. You make more money on heart sales this way in the short term, but you gut the effectiveness of the system serving as an effective method of retaining players. Second, the reward is very small for ER. That is a huge deal also as the TR rewards were on the weak side with some exceptions and these are even weaker compared to current character power. Rewards have to be compelling to serve as an effective means of keeping people playing.
    They are too busy working on Burden of Guilt, for which I have none. I acquired all my equipment legitimately.

  16. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    Nothing short of a major overhaul is likely to bring in the number of new people an 8 year old game would need to keep things going using a build an account method. While the game may not make money off players that leave, none of us will be playing if the game doesn't make enough money to justify giving it a budget at all. We just saw what sort of expansion pack they can afford to release on the sort of budget they are given. I doubt many are going to be willing to buy another.
    While it's true that the game is unlikely to get a massive amount of new players, it's also true that a major overhaul can easily drive a large portion of current players away. Clearly they are focusing on short-term gains over any long-term plans/game survivability. The December VIP-heart-event is one more clear stab in that direction; with many players going VIP for one month, I'm sure the management goals will be reached and the hefty bonuses can be collected.

    We have to deal with reality and the reality is that this game doesn't have the player base to spread the costs out over and expect to get by any way except by many of us being willing to drop ~$13 every other eTR or so or finding a way to get most of us to choose to pay monthly.
    Yes and no. Push us too hard and we push back. Make the $$$-grab too obvious and more and more people will get the reverse reaction and stop spending. I stopped my VIP already at Shadowfail, a guildie ended it with the 4200-tokens, and I've seen forum posts about people stopping potion/box buys.

    In addition to the active stop on spending, the huge grind of 4200 comms drains the will to play. From the three of our guilds active players one is enjoying things, farming EE:s with a capped toon and having fun. The two others practically stopped playing, it felt like too much bother even to log on to see if there's anything happening. The upcoming BTA change restored my faith a tiny bit, I've actually logged on since that, and even occasionally done a quest or two. But, unless the cost is lowered, I don't see myself playing very long. Drawing numbers from this small sample, 33% of players continued playing (but didn't start buying hearts), 33% stopped/lessened playing and 33% stopped/lessened playing and canceled VIP.

    I can imagine that one dude in our guild might buy a reinc heart from store, so that would even out 1 month of lost VIP. So I guess that's nothing lost, the loss will not come from the earnings in this quarter.

  17. #197
    Community Member wraxzz's Avatar
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    Without reading another post after page 3, here's my 2 cents:

    With my char's current haggle skill and an average item value of reward options for completing a quest at 9600pp, and assuming it will take 500 quests to get 4200 comms at my current rate (8 COV's per EN), I will be paying 1 million platinum pieces for an epic heart (500 quests * 2k pp per end reward vendor trash). That is such a big loss its just stupid. this system must be based on the South African ANC government.

    Anyways, what I actually wanted to say was the COV rate for each completed quest is too low- im practically forced to pick COV's from the reward list if I ever want to epic tr at the current rate of 8 COV's per underdark EpicNormal I run, but so far I have collected about 120 COV's over the weekend of quest farming- so I did about 12 underdark quests at 8 comm each, of those 12 quests, IIRC, i received a legendary victory option at least 4 times- that relates to 1988x4= 7952 guild renown missed out on for a total of 32/4200 COV's. copy+paste= That is such a big loss its just stupid. this system must be based on the South African ANC government.

    My point is: number of COVs required for epic hearts are stupendously high.
    Im not too phased about yet another ingredient as I have solved this hassle by acquiring 4 large ingredients bags. Yes, of all my characters, normally 12 slots OF A BAG, ARE HOLDING BAGS. Wait what? This isnt harry potter online...
    Furthermore I personally find running SAGA's suck. Since half the player base expect barbarians to chug pots and self-heal instead of dealing the most melee dmg likely in a group, I pretty much only solo except for epic raids and therefore I hate having to find groups to run SAGA quests on EE and having a player drop and a new one join every second quest. IMO, saga's has made DDO much less fun. Feels like a waste of time typing this- as if turbine is going to make a change in favour of the players that support their company.

  18. #198
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Some people might have noticed that raids are pretty dead at the moment.

    If you add commendations of valor (dropping at a reasonable rate) as an end reward on the non-20th runs for raids, you might find that people run the raids more often.

    Just a thought.
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  19. #199
    Community Member Ninety's Avatar
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    Bump, we need lower Commendations of valor amounts. As a casual player, I rarely get more than 50 commendations per day. That means once every 3 months I get to eTR. That's not acceptable.

  20. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by kinggartk View Post
    Thanks for the fixes.

    Face it, some people are just not fulfilled unless they find something to complain about. Some of these people would complain if Turbine gave every character $100 as a gift of appreciation because the check was mailed instead of hand delivered.

    Turbine has proved over the past 6 weeks that they are listening to the playerbase, some people just refuse to see it.
    To be fair, if Turbine's recent track record is taken straight up, then while they may be proving they are listening to the playerbase, they are even more so proving they are incompetent and unknowledgeable about their own game.

    Recent proposed changes have met with huge resistance because they are so obviously out of touch with game reality. Was the takehome message from the proposed EPIC tr system that turbine listens to players (it took a bridge revolt to make them listen) or that they have no clue?

    Same in this case, are you going to beat the "listens to playerbase" drum because we now have a overly complicated (as usual) workaround for an out-of-touch design, or remind Turbine that 4200 comms is still crazy, especially if they plan to make other uses for those comms?

    A conspiracy-theorist would definitely say that all of Turbines recent proposals are purposefully out of whack so that they can get immediate harsh criticism and then respond so that they seem to be listening to players, while actually instituting systems that are even bigger grindfests and money-grabs then they could get away with if they tried to set up the systems "fair value" initially.
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