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  1. #41
    Death's Dominator Eth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emptysands View Post
    How about switching to Paladin Dilettante to keep some saves and going 4 FVS for Warpriest? Keep DM, getting some PRR, Smite Weakness, Ameliorating Strike.

    Enough APs might be a challenge.
    I don't really find 4 FvS really tempting to be honest, this build has already good healing. Stuff like Ameliorating requires so many AP, no idea where to take that from.
    But I kinda like the idea of pally dilletante + FvS split. I would be more tempted though by something like 18Rgr/1Fvs/1Fgt.
    The nice thing about Warpriest DM is that it's so much cheaper (4 points compared to 11 in the pally tree).

    On the other hand I'm sitting at a +13 Charisma modifier. Pally dille caps at +5 saves. I'm Currently at 64/66/52 saves. A loss of +8 would take me from really useful saves to borderline useful saves.
    Last edited by Eth; 11-25-2013 at 03:53 AM.
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  2. #42
    Death's Dominator Eth's Avatar
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    Made some changes to enhancements:
    - Dropped second tier of Pally Vigor Of Life
    - Dropped second Str from Pally tree
    - Dropped Exalted Smite and all extra Smites (one remains still a filler on Tier 1 to get to Tier 2)
    - Dropped Improved Defense I

    - Took Divine Sacrifice Tier I (basically does the same as exalted Smite I: +1 Crit Multiplier. But it also has a shorter cooldown, unlimited charges and extra light damage)
    - Took Arcane Archer Core I
    - Took Archane Archer Energy of the Wild III
    - Took Elaborate Parry (see below)
    - Took Evasive Dance II (70%, kind of 'dirty' improved evasion)


    Tested some of the other Tempest abilities, but they are really disappointing - here's my take on them:
    - Bleed them out: It's worth taking, quick cooldown, +5W, 3AP, some extra bleed damage - I only passed on it because I have no easily accessible keyboard keys/mousekeys left really to put it into a useful rotation
    - The Growing Storm: Totally useless. +10 Damage for 15 seconds out of every 120 seconds equals an overall damage increase of 1.25 (if you even remember to activate it).
    - A Thousand Cuts: 6 seconds out of every 120 seconds. This is a Tier 5?! Is this Turbines way of saying FU tempests? Either reduce the cooldown or increase the duration. With the equally bad prereq the AP cost is already steep.
    - Dance of Death: 6 seconds out of every 60 seconds for a really interesting new mechanic, that I really like. I would take it - if it was 1AP per Tier. Why is Tier III 6 AP? Really?!
    - Elaborate Parry: Now this is interesting stuff. 15 seconds 30% extra dodge every 60 seconds, as long as you hit stuff. Checked my character sheet and it did indeed show 44% dodge chance. It also seems to raise the dodge cap as that went up to 55%. Have to test it in combat still, only tested on the training dummy.
    If this really works like it should, this would allow to stay in way more fights on EE without having to back out.
    - Evasive Dance: Good ability and not too expensive. Since the prereq seems good, it's a nice thing to put on top.
    Last edited by Eth; 11-25-2013 at 04:54 AM.
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  3. #43
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    I suspect it might be considered uncool to say this aloud, but watching these videos, is the Archer's Focus damage boost working on melee thing considered WAI now?

    Also, +1 for a nice, sort of old-fashioned I guess, melee ranger build. And -1 for unwarranted remarks about the master race!
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  4. #44
    Death's Dominator Eth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micron View Post
    I suspect it might be considered uncool to say this aloud, but watching these videos, is the Archer's Focus damage boost working on melee thing considered WAI now?

    Also, +1 for a nice, sort of old-fashioned I guess, melee ranger build. And -1 for unwarranted remarks about the master race!
    No idea about AF. Since this has been around for pretty long now (at least 8 month or so? maybe even longer?), you might consider it WAI even - but I really doubt it is
    It's not as big of a boost as you might think though (it's not 30%).
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    No idea about AF. Since this has been around for pretty long now (at least 8 month or so? maybe even longer?), you might consider it WAI even - but I really doubt it is
    It's not as big of a boost as you might think though (it's not 30%).
    No, it doesn't seem to add as much damage as it does to ranged. With Improved Archer's Focus from DWS, which extends the stacks to 25, it is quite a noticeable difference though. On my gimpy pure ranger it's currently the only excuse for pretending I can still do some melee damage. If they ever fix it, I'll ditch melee completely and go bow only or, more likely, give in and respec to a build like yours.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kmnh View Post
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  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    I don't really find 4 FvS really tempting to be honest, this build has already good healing. Stuff like Ameliorating requires so many AP, no idea where to take that from.
    But I kinda like the idea of pally dilletante + FvS split. I would be more tempted though by something like 18Rgr/1Fvs/1Fgt.
    The nice thing about Warpriest DM is that it's so much cheaper (4 points compared to 11 in the pally tree).

    On the other hand I'm sitting at a +13 Charisma modifier. Pally dille caps at +5 saves. I'm Currently at 64/66/52 saves. A loss of +8 would take me from really useful saves to borderline useful saves.
    It's not entirely a +8 difference - FVS have 4/4/4 (fort/reflex/will) vs Paladin with 4/1/1 at level 4. That said I probably would take the dilettante only to rank 2.

    Maybe Human 14 Ranger/4Fvs/2 Paladin would work?

    Given that you say the tier 5 ranger stuff is some what useless. I wonder if Drow 14Ranger/5FVS/X with a pair of Celestia is going to be interesting.


    Sorry if I'm a bit speculatively - trying to find a reason to come back to DDO at the moment. An interesting build may inspire me to do a TR. Although I'd have to sort out my bank and TR cache......
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  7. #47
    Death's Dominator Eth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emptysands View Post
    It's not entirely a +8 difference - FVS have 4/4/4 (fort/reflex/will) vs Paladin with 4/1/1 at level 4. That said I probably would take the dilettante only to rank 2.

    Maybe Human 14 Ranger/4Fvs/2 Paladin would work?

    Given that you say the tier 5 ranger stuff is some what useless. I wonder if Drow 14Ranger/5FVS/X with a pair of Celestia is going to be interesting.


    Sorry if I'm a bit speculatively - trying to find a reason to come back to DDO at the moment. An interesting build may inspire me to do a TR. Although I'd have to sort out my bank and TR cache......
    Really good ideas here.
    I'll definatly give the Rgr/FvS/Pal idea a look when my toon is copied to lammania.
    I'm more likely to try 12Rgr/6FvS/2Pal though. Theres really nothing Ranger gains from 12 to 14 other than CSW which FvS gets too at lvl 6.
    The cheap DM opens a lot more options on enhancements.
    Race definatly Human then, since that split loses a feat from fighter and I don't know what to drop.
    The Fighter Haste Boost can be replaced with the LD Haste Boost.
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  8. #48
    Community Member Doutrinador's Avatar
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    Default Fighter 10/Ranger6/Pally4

    Hi..like that build, but whant to use Medium or Heavy Armor (losing Evasion adquired in lvl 9 ranger). Think that 6 lvls of ranger will be nice, 10 Fighter for Feats e Enchant, and 4 Pally. Maybe dilletant of FVS to use scrolls and wands.

  9. #49
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doutrinador View Post
    Hi..like that build, but whant to use Medium or Heavy Armor (losing Evasion adquired in lvl 9 ranger). Think that 6 lvls of ranger will be nice, 10 Fighter for Feats e Enchant, and 4 Pally. Maybe dilletant of FVS to use scrolls and wands.
    Shameless plug: see my Faithsworn Hunter. For what you propose, I think ftr 12 / rgr 4 / pal 4 will be stronger: you lose a feat but gain Power Surge + GWS for more DPS.
    Revisiting the Classics: Axesinger / Dwarven Defender / Drow Ninja / Drow Paladin / Elven Ranger / Monkcher / Sacred Vanguard
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  10. #50
    Community Member Doutrinador's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Shameless plug: see my Faithsworn Hunter. For what you propose, I think ftr 12 / rgr 4 / pal 4 will be stronger: you lose a feat but gain Power Surge + GWS for more DPS.
    You will lose Manyshot, 2 F enemy and ITWF if stop in 4 lvls of ranger. I will try my 10/6/4, with dil FVS or Barb.

  11. #51
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doutrinador View Post
    You will lose Manyshot, 2 F enemy and ITWF if stop in 4 lvls of ranger. I will try my 10/6/4, with dil FVS or Barb.
    If you check my builds, you will see I take MS, ITWF, GTWF, and IPS (i.e., all of the lvl 6-12 rgr feats), so I lose nothing feat-wise. Ftr 12 adds a bit more DPS than rgr 6 does, so unless you want the lvl 6 core enhs from AA or DWS, it works out better, IMHO.
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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    Really good ideas here.
    I'll definatly give the Rgr/FvS/Pal idea a look when my toon is copied to lammania.
    I'm more likely to try 12Rgr/6FvS/2Pal though. Theres really nothing Ranger gains from 12 to 14 other than CSW which FvS gets too at lvl 6.
    The cheap DM opens a lot more options on enhancements.
    Race definatly Human then, since that split loses a feat from fighter and I don't know what to drop.
    The Fighter Haste Boost can be replaced with the LD Haste Boost.
    The advantage of a Ranger version of CSW is higher caster level, plus +1 (max) caster levels if you are running in Fury.

    At Ranger level 12 vs FvS 6, CMW@12 may be than CSW@6 2d6+1+10 = 18 for 8 SP vs 3d6+6+6 = 22.5 for 12 SP. CSW@14 for a Ranger will get 30.5 for 12 SP.


    Regarding Feats. Doesn't Jorgundal's Collar give you Haste? You could drop Blinding Speed.
    Last edited by emptysands; 11-26-2013 at 02:52 PM.
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  13. #53
    Community Member Sokól's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    Tested some of the other Tempest abilities, but they are really disappointing - here's my take on them:
    - Bleed them out: It's worth taking, quick cooldown, +5W, 3AP, some extra bleed damage - I only passed on it because I have no easily accessible keyboard keys/mousekeys left really to put it into a useful rotation
    - The Growing Storm: Totally useless. +10 Damage for 15 seconds out of every 120 seconds equals an overall damage increase of 1.25 (if you even remember to activate it).
    - A Thousand Cuts: 6 seconds out of every 120 seconds. This is a Tier 5?! Is this Turbines way of saying FU tempests? Either reduce the cooldown or increase the duration. With the equally bad prereq the AP cost is already steep.
    - Dance of Death: 6 seconds out of every 60 seconds for a really interesting new mechanic, that I really like. I would take it - if it was 1AP per Tier. Why is Tier III 6 AP? Really?!
    - Elaborate Parry: Now this is interesting stuff. 15 seconds 30% extra dodge every 60 seconds, as long as you hit stuff. Checked my character sheet and it did indeed show 44% dodge chance. It also seems to raise the dodge cap as that went up to 55%. Have to test it in combat still, only tested on the training dummy.
    If this really works like it should, this would allow to stay in way more fights on EE without having to back out.
    - Evasive Dance: Good ability and not too expensive. Since the prereq seems good, it's a nice thing to put on top.
    Was just going to ask about these ty for the info.
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  14. #54
    Death's Dominator Eth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emptysands View Post
    The advantage of a Ranger version of CSW is higher caster level, plus +1 (max) caster levels if you are running in Fury.

    At Ranger level 12 vs FvS 6, CMW@12 may be than CSW@6 2d6+1+10 = 18 for 8 SP vs 3d6+6+6 = 22.5 for 12 SP. CSW@14 for a Ranger will get 30.5 for 12 SP.


    Regarding Feats. Doesn't Jorgundal's Collar give you Haste? You could drop Blinding Speed.
    Oh, you're absolutely right. Totally forgot about caster level. That would really cripple the use of CSW.

    I took blinding speed because I wanted to replace the collar (which I actually have by now).
    Apart from that, even with the collar, blinding speed is still nice since you also get permanent 2% faster run speed (haste is 32% if I'm not mistaken?), 1 reflex save, 1%dodge, 22% attack speed with bows (slight increase on pinion at least).
    But basically yes, if you want to keep the collar, you can take something else. I'd probably take epic reflexes.
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  15. #55
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    I am trying to figure out how you get to the 22 haste boots but coming short.

    5 base
    3 Tempest Haste Boost
    3 Fighter Haste Boost
    3 Fighter Extra Boots
    3 LD Extra Boosts

    what am I missing or getting wrong?

  16. #56
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    I think you're doing your math wrong:

    Tempest Haste Boost: 5 base + 3 Extra Action Boosts (ftr) + 3 Extra Action Boosts (LD) = 11
    Kensei Haste Boost: 5 base + 3 Extra Action Boosts (ftr) + 3 Extra Action Boosts (LD) = 11

    So 22 total. Plus 11 human Dmg boosts to boot. If he could find a way to squeeze in KotC Dmg Boost, that's another 11 there.
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  17. #57
    Death's Dominator Eth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS-Makk View Post
    I am trying to figure out how you get to the 22 haste boots but coming short.

    5 base
    3 Tempest Haste Boost
    3 Fighter Haste Boost
    3 Fighter Extra Boots
    3 LD Extra Boosts

    what am I missing or getting wrong?
    You have to differ between the amount of action boosts you get in general and what action boosts you actually have.
    That said...
    Amount of available boosts for each sort of boost:
    +5 base
    +3 LD
    +3 Kensai
    =11
    (could get +13 if I cared to swap my necklace before shrining)

    Actions Boosts I have:
    Haste Boost Ranger
    Haste Boost Fighter
    Damage Boost HElf
    Unmovable
    Thick Skinned
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  18. #58
    Death's Dominator Eth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    So 22 total. Plus 11 human Dmg boosts to boot. If he could find a way to squeeze in KotC Dmg Boost, that's another 11 there.
    Pretty sure I tried the Damage Boost and it used the same counter and timer as one of my haste boosts.
    The whole Action Boost system is kind of broken if you ask me.

    On my Juggernaut (16 Arti, 2 Monk, 2 Ranger):
    Tried the Arti Haste Boost + Ranger haste boost: same timer/counter.
    Tried Fussilade + Ranger haste boost: different timer/counter.
    Tried Arti Haste Boost + Ranger sprint boost: different timer/counter.
    Tried Arti Haste Boost + LD Haste Boost: same timer/counter.
    Tried Ranger Haste Boost + LD Haste Boost: same timer/counter.

    On my Ranger/Pally/Fighter:
    Pally Attack Boost + Fighter and Ranger Haste Boost: shared timer/counter with one of them, not sure which
    Ranger Haste Boost + Fighter Haste Boost: different timer/counter
    Ranger Haste Boost + LD Haste Boost: same timer/counter
    Fighter Haste Boost + LD Haste Boost: think did not test yet, might give it a try...

    I don't see any logic in that AB system, in regards of what shares a counter/timer with what. Testing BS like that has cost me several 100k pp so far.
    It would be awesome if turbine at least would let us know how it is supposed to be working because the way it is now I'm sure there are several bugs in it that are not WAI.


    Edit: Also - why don't monks get any boosts? They should get a 100% Haste Boost granted at level 1 and 5 extra action boosts for every 2nd level of monk. Need moar balance!
    Last edited by Eth; 11-27-2013 at 07:38 AM.
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  19. #59
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    - A Thousand Cuts: 6 seconds out of every 120 seconds. This is a Tier 5?! Is this Turbines way of saying FU tempests? Either reduce the cooldown or increase the duration.
    Yes . . . this is brought up in one of my "tempest is terrible" threads. If this were a 20 second boost with a 1 minute cooldown it might be worth taking. Now it's only worth taking it it's free.

  20. #60
    Death's Dominator Eth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Yes . . . this is brought up in one of my "tempest is terrible" threads. If this were a 20 second boost with a 1 minute cooldown it might be worth taking. Now it's only worth taking it it's free.
    Can't agree on the 'if it's free'. Hotbar space is limited as is signature space.
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