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  1. #61
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodchuckslayer View Post
    To those of you who have been jerks, please share your toon names. I would like to squelch you.
    See my signature area. I don't think I'm a jerk for stating that you'd better get used to things changing in MMOs, though.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forzah View Post
    See my signature area. I don't think I'm a jerk for stating that you'd better get used to things changing in MMOs, though.
    I did not take your comment as particularly harsh Forz. There are in truth only a small number who have that special bully personality.

  3. #63
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodchuckslayer View Post
    I did not take your comment as particularly harsh Forz. There are in truth only a small number who have that special bully personality.
    Then it's good, man . Good luck ingame.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Habreno View Post
    Before U19, the six stones you are referring to had +6 to a stat and +1 exceptional bonus to that same stat's skills. With U19, all exceptional skill bonuses were changed to a different form and now do not stack. To keep this from being a nerf, exceptional skill bonuses were doubled. This makes the items now +6 to a stat and +2 bonus to that stat's skills. Yes, I don't quite remember what the bonus type is. Hate me for it if you want.



    Your argument about Wiki being not a credible source is not only completely irrelevant but flat-out wrong in this case. In college, you are correct in that Wiki*pedia* or other Wikis are not credible sources because they can be edited by anonymous sources. However, in this case, we're not dealing with current information. We are dealing with long-term recall, and in those cases of long-term recall, where you have several months/years to look at the wiki history, Wikis *are* credible sources because any incorrectness has the time to be corrected and issues related to such debated and fixed.

    If we look at the Wiki in this case, we see that the Wiki does not support your side of this debate. It is not mentioned on the Wiki about the +1 bonus having been +1 exceptional stat. Given this fact, and your yet staunch claim that it's incorrect, I therefore challenge you to show how the Wiki is incorrect.
    Thank you for posting. I have however already stated that no such proof is forthcoming as I already acknowledged that I have no screenshot not knowing I would need one. Your attitude approached adversarial as your view has been expressed by many and my limitation has already been made clear. So what is your purpose?

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forzah View Post
    Then it's good, man . Good luck ingame.
    thanks. You too.

  6. #66
    Community Member ka0t1c1sm's Avatar
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    Morgulion Romenion Zandrine Zeldaryne The Order of Cygnus Sarlona
    Quote Originally Posted by BitkaCK2
    There are no bugs in this game, only unintended features.

  7. #67
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodchuckslayer View Post
    Thank you for posting. I have however already stated that no such proof is forthcoming as I already acknowledged that I have no screenshot not knowing I would need one. Your attitude approached adversarial as your view has been expressed by many and my limitation has already been made clear. So what is your purpose?
    Uh, just to make certain: The screenshot you are talking about, is it of the +1exceptional stat ioun stone, or something else, since ive gotten a bit confused as to what its supposed to prove.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  8. #68
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    wow, passive aggressiveness really is the best aggressiveness. Also a great thing to feed a martyr complex.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodchuckslayer View Post
    Thanks grammar nazi. Now a lesson for you, there is a difference between correcting someone on a trivial matter and one that is not..but then you don't seem to know that. What you also don't know is the difference between a typo and a legitimate error.

    Edit-You are(You're) not welcome. Why? Because you are that intellectual that doesn't...
    Godwin!

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    Yes, we all know you were right back in 2009 before you took an arrow to the knee.
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    I wish there were a way to never see any of your posts.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodchuckslayer View Post
    You are absolutely the king of assumptions and you know what those do don't you?
    As you say, turnabout is fair play. You're right, half true. Go back to not knowing what your equipment does and then coming and complaining about it.

    Listen, we get tons of complaints here. we also get a lot of people defending Turbine like paladins. I find both groups annoying, because in a game riddled with bugs, exploits, an other things, half the complaints I see are just flat out wrong. I mean, someone else in this topic is filing bug reports because his item that NEVER PREVENTED neg levels from beholders... is no longer preventing neg levels from beholders. In a game with so many legitimate things to fix, stuff that distracts like that is annoying. And yeah, that's coming from the Ghostbane guy.

    I can take the time to construct why people are wrong, or I can just say "You're wrong". There's too many legitimate things to fix, at least when I post *achoo* people know it was a waste of two seconds and don't try to fix stuff that isn't broken.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maelwyn View Post
    Yeah, I noticed that as well. Also, the PLIS did not prevent neg level drain. On a level 12 toon running VoN 3 the other day, I got neg leveled 4 different times while fighting the beholders. This was with a PLIS that started with 50 charges, and was at 35 after fighting the beholders. Later, I ran the entire Threnal chain, and when combatting the beholders in the latter parts of the chain, my PLIS again did not prevent/absorb the negative level attacks by the beholders. It is supposed to, but didn't. I even pulled out one of those Scarabs of Spell Absorption (with 50 charges), and it didn't work to prevent the neg level attacks by the beholders.

    I'd send a ticket and/or bug report in about it, but my tickets have all been answered with canned responses the past few months, and I have never seen anything I bug reported ever get fixed. So, I am just taking a vacation from the game for a bit. The way this game is run, and how the bugs rarely ever get fixed, is a good reason to spend my free time playing another video game or just reading a good book, playing some pencil and paper, etc.
    Visor of the Flesh Render ----> equip PLIS ----> kill beholder. That is how it works. PLIS does not prevent level drain. It prevents dispelling the deathward.

    Hint: Wiki is always your friend.

  12. #72
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by somethingtosay View Post
    Visor of the Flesh Render ----> equip PLIS ----> kill beholder. That is how it works. PLIS does not prevent level drain. It prevents dispelling the deathward.

    Hint: Wiki is always your friend.
    Enervation and energy drain are spells meaning that the PLIS should absorb them. It's been bugged from day 1.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forzah View Post
    Enervation and energy drain are spells meaning that the PLIS should absorb them. It's been bugged from day 1.
    As far as I know, only items with negative energy absorption (Deat's Locket, Death's Door,...) prevent level drain. They have it in the description as well.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Change from a stackable bonus to unstackable bonus is a nerf.
    still no response to this, why is it a nerf?

    as mentioned above take the classic greensteel item with +1/2/3 for a total of +6. that same item is now +2/4/6 for the exact same total of +6. sure it feels like the lower tiers are a bit wasted, but the item has lost none of its potency and newer items can benefit from being even more powerful with those lower tiers getting some added flexibility.

    same for any other item. say the OP had +1 on his ioun stone and +2 elsewhere. they had +3, they now have +4 and their trinket slot is now more flexible as it is a lot easier to slot a +6 stat in another slot. in that instance the ioun stone lost its worth, but the player gained +1 to their skill and have more gearing options. of course the ioun stone will still be kick ass at lvl5 if the OP LRs so the ioun stone is not vendor trash now.

    alternatively say the OP only had the ioun stone with its +1. now it has +2, a benefit all over with no penalty.

    so where exactly is the nerf?
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  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forzah View Post
    Enervation and energy drain are spells meaning that the PLIS should absorb them. It's been bugged from day 1.
    Ugh. It absorbs spell charges, not beholder magic, which are not spells. Technically, it shoudn't prevent anti magic from them either.

  16. #76
    Community Member Dendrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Change from a stackable bonus to unstackable bonus is a nerf.
    Complete Nonesense. Since the bonus was doubled there is only one circumstances in which that is true, if you had 3 or more +1 same exceptional bonus items. Under all other circumstances this is either an improvement or the same.

    Your EXISTING items and EXISTING bonus are either as good as they weere before or better.
    New items might be better.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dendrix View Post
    Complete Nonesense. Since the bonus was doubled there is only one circumstances in which that is true, if you had 3 or more +1 same exceptional bonus items. Under all other circumstances this is either an improvement or the same.

    Your EXISTING items and EXISTING bonus are either as good as they weere before or better.
    New items might be better.
    Except exceptional bonus of the same value didn't stack, so not even then.
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  18. #78
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodchuckslayer View Post
    To those of you who have been jerks, please share your toon names. I would like to squelch you.
    And you list them too as well please.

    Thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

  19. #79
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReaperAlexEU View Post
    still no response to this, why is it a nerf?

    as mentioned above take the classic greensteel item with +1/2/3 for a total of +6. that same item is now +2/4/6 for the exact same total of +6. sure it feels like the lower tiers are a bit wasted, but the item has lost none of its potency and newer items can benefit from being even more powerful with those lower tiers getting some added flexibility.

    same for any other item. say the OP had +1 on his ioun stone and +2 elsewhere. they had +3, they now have +4 and their trinket slot is now more flexible as it is a lot easier to slot a +6 stat in another slot. in that instance the ioun stone lost its worth, but the player gained +1 to their skill and have more gearing options. of course the ioun stone will still be kick ass at lvl5 if the OP LRs so the ioun stone is not vendor trash now.

    alternatively say the OP only had the ioun stone with its +1. now it has +2, a benefit all over with no penalty.

    so where exactly is the nerf?
    If the +1 stacked with their gearset and the +2 currently does not, its a nerf. If the player then has to play gear tetris to make up for what they lost its even more irritating. In this case scenario, it doesnt have a high impact because there cant be too many folks using ioun stones for the skill points.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodchuckslayer View Post
    Thanks to those who responded in this later half for being on topic and sincere. It is no less clear that you are right and I am wrong as many have disagreed with few...innumerable times throughout history. That said I recognize that others do not, possibly correctly, see what I see. It bears repeating that none of this would be under discussion if loot that is already in my bag was not being changed. I find this trend greatly disturbing. This weeks buff..if buff it was is very easily next weeks nerf. We should not be content with retroactively changed loot, period.
    your main point about leaving existing items alone is a very valid one and there are far worse examples. the high stat bonus items with no min level were eventually corrected. the first risia games weapons have had their min level increased, though the devs did apologise for that as there was nothing on the weapon to say the frost effect came from risia. later risia games weapons had the festival tag so they were able to preserve the level on those. both of those examples have generated complaints just as you'd expect. one was a fix to broken items and kinda expected, the other was a new loot system that broke some old yet valid items. yes it did upset a lot of players, just as you feel upset by this topic.

    i don't think anyone in here would argue with the fact retroactive changes like that upset people. some would argue that they are right and need to be done. that poster talking about MMOs changing and you needing to get used to it was the short version of such an argument (even this sentence is longer than their entire post!). MMOs do constantly change, and sometimes those changes upset some players. we all have to learn to expect this and pick our fights so the devs know that when we kick up a real storm it is for a real reason. sure they don't always listen, but they have taken note of us several times in the recent past.

    now if you want a good example the reaction of a bonus going from skill to stat try to imagine the nerd rage that would erupt if they changed litany of the dead to a skill bonus! some players have farmed abbot hundreds of times to get that +1 profane bonus to all abilities. the outcry would be immense! tone that down a bit for such a change to ioun stones and we would most certainly have seen a rumble on patch day. ok it wouldn't be a full on nerd rage induced nuclear explosion, but it would most definitely have kicked up it's fair share of threads. oh and please don't take offence at my usage of nerd rage, i'm quite proud of my geekiness and i find it quite the fitting term for such an outcry.

    so yes the show must go on, and changes are inevitable, and yes changes to existing gear should be avoided but that isn't why people are arguing with you. your main point has flown right over everyones head because it's not grounded in anything we can rally behind.

    that is largely down to responses like: "It is no less clear that you are right and I am wrong", we've given you the patch notes for when ioun stones were given the suppressed ability and screenshots of those items from when they were created. we've taken onboard your points about wikis in general. yes they are highly subject to human error, yes they can be abused with malicious edits, we can't deny those. however we can point to the history revisions and old posts in the forums where no such misrepresentation can be faked. a post from when ioun stones were first updated asking to see what the change was with a picture reply of the new items is wonderful proof that they have always been a skill bonus. the wiki having a screenshot of the skill bonus is also great proof.

    for more here are some dev quotes for your reading

    people were trying to test the changes and didn't know why their existing ioun stones were not working:
    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin View Post
    Any newly generated Ioun Stones will have suppressed power.
    the first upgraded items had no min level, eladrin explains why
    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin View Post
    Looks like someone critically failed their treasure creation check to me, and rolled their face in the minimum level column.

    And, uh, it certainly wasn't me. Er... Okay, maybe it was.

    If I remember correctly, the intention was to make the Ioun Stones "Bound to Account on Upgrade, but Binds to a Character on Equip", but that didn't work so well (the feedback was terrible!) and... er, I apparently mashed random buttons in the minimum level column.

    Let's put them into the "may be subject to change, but no rush" bucket. As noted, they're great twink items, and that was intentional (we wanted them to be great for TR's), but didn't quite hit the target exactly as intended.
    if you follow the quoted posts you'll get back to a brand new dark blue ioun stone that went from min lvl2 with +3 listen/spot to no min lvl with +15 listen/spot. check the wiki now and you'll see those upgraded stones are now min lvl5.

    i fully accept that you can't provide proof of your old item, i certainly don't screenshot every item i use. however you could at least do some research into the matter. hit the forum and laminia search, hit google. while you or i may not screenshot everything there are plenty of players in this community that love being the first to share a screenshot of a new item, or a change to an existing item. so the pics will be out there. we've linked several to you, so for your own piece of mind go dig some out for yourself. i think it's only fair at this stage that you put some time into digging out the truth. we've given you some very reasonable proof and you have rejected all of it, so now it's your turn. if we can't convince you then maybe you can convince yourself when you bring up old posts and pics mentioning skill bonuses.

    Quote Originally Posted by woodchuckslayer View Post
    Was the statement Chai made technically wrong? It wasn't and yet you seek to correct it..Why? You seem exceptionally vested in this concept.
    Chai's statement was incorrect because it completely ignored the full change. exceptional items stopped stacking and to compensate the bonus those exceptional items gave was doubled. if you take any mix of +1, +2 and +3 items you cannot get a lower total bonus when you stop the stacking and double the numbers. of the 7 combinations only 1 gets no boost, the other 6 all get a boost and 3 of those get double what they had previously!

    that is why Chai's post was called into question. we can't find any situation where the "nerf" resulted in a nerf.

    here is a breakdown of all the combinations:
    Code:
    items   old total   new total
    1       1           2
    1,2     3           4
    1,3     4           6
    1,2,3   6           6
    2       2           4
    2,3     5           6
    3       3           6
    as you can see the old total is always equalled if not surpassed by the new totals
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