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  1. #41
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    Hi, everyone. I’d like to talk about some of what we've been working on to remedy the loot diversity issue in the near future. Our short-term goal is to return a healthy serving of older weapon affixes to the random loot pool. If we’re lucky (sometimes we’re not!), we’ll get these changes to Lamannia later this week and then include them in the patch.

    In addition, we have a couple “stretch goals” for patch:

    - One is lower hanging fruit: release some high level bane affixes, such as “Humanoid Bane.” The older narrower bane items would go back in if we didn't. They might still go back in if we did.
    - More expensive: restoring old affixes for all equipment, instead of just for weapons. We’d like to do this, it’s just a question of time.
    - Lastly, another large, and so less likely for a mere patch: extending those old affixes up so they cover modern epic level ranges.

    We’d love your input on which of these three possibilities are of most value to you, and which you would (ideally) want to see first.

    And as a closing note: changes that don’t make it into a patch are first on our list for (near) future loot improvements.
    I am not sure what you mean by higher level loot, but, as I see it, Loot-gen does not really need to go into the "Epic" levels, and in fact, trying to move it into those ranges is what caused the largest problems, to scale up the loot-gen, was not a profitable move, as it did not really give the players anything to earnestly strive for, and in effect destroyed or devalued what they had worked for.

    I would actually suggest that having loot-gen cap at say 20th level, and any chest 20+ would drop other things players might want, additional commendations for Eveningstar gear, perhaps even mix "challenge" (both evening star and Cannith) mats into chests, as well as a means to quicken the process for upgrading older epic items.

    Doing that would open more doors, for example, it's better for a player to have a realistic possibility to get an epic Templar's Justice, then it is to try and revise the loot-gen system to replace or even overshadow the Templar's Justice, this making the weapon and the process that was put in to upgrade it, a waste of development. Beyond that, it really dismays the players who took the time to acquire it, it makes them question why they even bother, if you are just going to make into vendor trash with the next update. It removes the incentive to put in time or effort to attain these things, and that is a game killer right there.

    I guess the question is,
    • If you upped the Evening Star Comm drop rate so that it was perhaps doubled.
    • Put in a Trade method to consolidate shards/seals/scrolls into one item, so that players could acquire one "item" in volume to use to upgrade their items into epic items.


    Would you need Epic-Loot-gen at all?

    Have all the gear post 20th be Named/Raid or Comm/Challenge gear, and let Loot-gen be heroic building block gear, I think would make for a better game for everyone involved.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    The name changes are on our "hopefully soon" list. I'm concerned about trying to do it for patch, though: the gear in everyone's inventory would be affected, and that could lead to some panic and confusion. So my preference is to make name changes part of a larger set of changes, in a proper release.
    I totally understand this, the problem is, when you "fix" the stuff, please don't break it... Thanks.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    I am not sure what you mean by higher level loot, but, as I see it, Loot-gen does not really need to go into the "Epic" levels, and in fact, trying to move it into those ranges is what caused the largest problems, to scale up the loot-gen, was not a profitable move, as it did not really give the players anything to earnestly strive for, and in effect destroyed or devalued what they had worked for.

    I would actually suggest that having loot-gen cap at say 20th level, and any chest 20+ would drop other things players might want, additional commendations for Eveningstar gear, perhaps even mix "challenge" (both evening star and Cannith) mats into chests, as well as a means to quicken the process for upgrading older epic items.

    Doing that would open more doors, for example, it's better for a player to have a realistic possibility to get an epic Templar's Justice, then it is to try and revise the loot-gen system to replace or even overshadow the Templar's Justice, this making the weapon and the process that was put in to upgrade it, a waste of development. Beyond that, it really dismays the players who took the time to acquire it, it makes them question why they even bother, if you are just going to make into vendor trash with the next update. It removes the incentive to put in time or effort to attain these things, and that is a game killer right there.

    I guess the question is,
    • If you upped the Evening Star Comm drop rate so that it was perhaps doubled.
    • Put in a Trade method to consolidate shards/seals/scrolls into one item, so that players could acquire one "item" in volume to use to upgrade their items into epic items.


    Would you need Epic-Loot-gen at all?

    Have all the gear post 20th be Named/Raid or Comm/Challenge gear, and let Loot-gen be heroic building block gear, I think would make for a better game for everyone involved.



    I totally understand this, the problem is, when you "fix" the stuff, please don't break it... Thanks.
    that doesn't appeal to me. i like the idea of loot-gen items being viable for end game, but named stuff being optimal. i enjoyed playing my old TWF char that had 2 burst weapons of pure good with rizia burst ontop when the cap was 20. they felt like good weapons while i was farming for something better.

    i like the epic level scintillating khopesh i have on my paly and am a bit dissapointed such weapons stopped dropping. sure it's no lit II, but it is still fun to get that lighting strike proc. there are also much better weapons in the new raids. that scintillating pesh for me is where the balance should be, it's a fun loot-gen item that doesn't compete with the best stuff.

    it's fun pulling a nice loot-gen weapon, i wouldn't want to kiss that goodbye the second i took lvl20 for a myriad of ingredients (even though i like the idea of making it easier to work towards some of those old items). it might seem a bit silly and counter productive, but personally i'd not want any solution to this to involve saying goodbye to loot-gen. i was much happier popping chests in the pre-u19 game than i have been since, and that was due to the weapon loot tables.

    of course the system is all out of balance now, the dream visor is a very good example of that. but such named items should be given the power they need to compete with loot-gen, not have loot-gen removed! for that specific item maybe it is as simple as giving it a competing deadly bonus based on the versions level. maybe you could give the epics a bit of a boost, say aim them at the lvl28 items, maybe even lvl30 for the EE version?

    as for items becoming obsolete, while you expect to outgrow some items i think it would be nice to be able to take some with you to cap via an upgrade system. such an upgrade system would be great for items players have invested a lot of time in farming for. easier to get stuff could just be fair cop in needed to grow out of it.
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  3. #43

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    - Lastly, another large, and so less likely for a mere patch: extending those old affixes up so they cover modern epic level ranges.
    This one rates highest on the wish list. I'm assuming you're talking about things that drop away in usefulness in epics like wounding, maladroit, etc.


    - More expensive: restoring old affixes for all equipment, instead of just for weapons. We’d like to do this, it’s just a question of time.
    Runner up. Convalescent and the proc guards that were on armor are missed but if weapon affixes are already in the works for the patch, equipment affixes take 2nd place.

    - One is lower hanging fruit: release some high level bane affixes, such as “Humanoid Bane.” The older narrower bane items would go back in if we didn't. They might still go back in if we did.
    Sounds like a good deal, especially if you're leaving the original banes in, but Banes have dominated the loot runs lately. We need a little break from banes before they trump dev time spent on other things
    Like somebody else mentioned, when you get around to it please add plant bane to random loot.

  4. #44
    Community Member Golddragon87's Avatar
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    - More expensive: restoring old affixes for all equipment, instead of just for weapons. We’d like to do this, it’s just a question of time.

    I understand this is the long term goal. However it is also the root of all evil that needs to be quashed with extreme prejudice. Make it a priority please, preferably #1 on the list.
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  5. #45
    Community Member DrNuegebauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    The name changes are on our "hopefully soon" list. I'm concerned about trying to do it for patch, though: the gear in everyone's inventory would be affected, and that could lead to some panic and confusion. So my preference is to make name changes part of a larger set of changes, in a proper release.
    I don't mean to sound rude, however, your rhetoric on this loot thing is disturbing.

    A fairly nice loot system had started to evolve, and instead of working with it, some fool got rid of it all in favour of Ghostbane. Oh my.

    If you have any plans, a starting point needs to be reintroducing the stuff that was taken away. If you don't know what it all was (my guess is that nobody wrote it down...), then ddowiki might be a place to start doing some research. You really really need to be bringing all that stuff back in, pronto. I understand it might be hard to code it into the ghostbane system, but unfortunately that's the lot you've been dealt.


    We don't want "humanbane" to become the new "ghostbane". Please no. Just start working on getting the old stuff back in before making something new and stupid. Once you have the old stuff back in, THEN start musing about the future.

    There was no need to kill loot. Unfortunately it happened. Fix it first (and extend level ranges to 28 or 30 or whatever), and then move forward.

    AND, while working on random loot, please upgrade all existing named loot to once again be useful. It might not be your fault that it all got killed, but once again, if you're "sir lootsalot", then unfortunately it seems to be your lot in life to fix it.
    Last edited by DrNuegebauer; 11-18-2013 at 09:35 PM.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNuegebauer View Post
    reintroducing the stuff that was taken away
    erm, re-read the OP, that is exactly what their cunning plan is!

    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    Our short-term goal is to return a healthy serving of older weapon affixes to the random loot pool. If we’re lucky (sometimes we’re not!), we’ll get these changes to Lamannia later this week and then include them in the patch.
    see, that is plan A, this thread is about what they can do once plan A is complete. they are saying if things go well then they might be able to get some other things done in the U20 patches.
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  7. #47
    Community Member Deathdefy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    In addition, we have a couple “stretch goals” for patch:

    - One is lower hanging fruit: release some high level bane affixes, such as “Humanoid Bane.” The older narrower bane items would go back in if we didn't. They might still go back in if we did.
    - More expensive: restoring old affixes for all equipment, instead of just for weapons. We’d like to do this, it’s just a question of time.
    - Lastly, another large, and so less likely for a mere patch: extending those old affixes up so they cover modern epic level ranges.

    We’d love your input on which of these three possibilities are of most value to you, and which you would (ideally) want to see first.

    And as a closing note: changes that don’t make it into a patch are first on our list for (near) future loot improvements.
    I'd still love to know what on earth happened to the pretty darn good state that loot was in just after MoTU to turn it into Riposte-Ghostbane-fest.

    Re: the actual question:
    Bane schmane. Their removal wasn't the worst thing in the world. Can still craft decent beaters for the specific types and it wouldn't be the worst thing to let crafting keep that niche.

    Yes on old affixes. If you literally only did Convalescent of Parrying on bracers that'd be a huge improvement for non-weapon equipment.

    To be totally honest I don't really understand the third option; if it's making better versions of previous equipment affixes like "Superior Convalescence 40% HAmp" for the highest end lootgem - do eeet too! But don't rush to get it in this patch at the expense of just re-introducing the old affixes.

    PPS. Given 1-20 is sort of whatever now anyway, any chance of removing the cap on possible prefixes and suffixes for heroics to include what in MoTU were epic specific items. e.g. finding a ML 14 +1 Repeater of Radiance would be exciting in my view.
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  8. #48
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    I just want to see DR breakers again.

    And DR-breaking affixes on quarterstaves.... but I say that since I have a q-stave using rogue.

  9. #49
    Hatchery Hero BOgre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    Hi, everyone. I’d like to talk about some of what we've been working on to remedy the loot diversity issue in the near future. Our short-term goal is to return a healthy serving of older weapon affixes to the random loot pool. If we’re lucky (sometimes we’re not!), we’ll get these changes to Lamannia later this week and then include them in the patch.

    In addition, we have a couple “stretch goals” for patch:

    - One is lower hanging fruit: release some high level bane affixes, such as “Humanoid Bane.” The older narrower bane items would go back in if we didn't. They might still go back in if we did.
    - More expensive: restoring old affixes for all equipment, instead of just for weapons. We’d like to do this, it’s just a question of time.
    - Lastly, another large, and so less likely for a mere patch: extending those old affixes up so they cover modern epic level ranges.

    We’d love your input on which of these three possibilities are of most value to you, and which you would (ideally) want to see first.

    And as a closing note: changes that don’t make it into a patch are first on our list for (near) future loot improvements.

    Unfortunately, this doesn't read like you've listened at all. The "intro" thread you posted is chock full of criticism of the system itself, less emphasis put on simply adding more affixes to the existing system. Your above list seems to imply that you're not interested in actually improving the random loot system, but are already decided on simply adding dumping more stuff into the already broken machine.

    If that's your direction, then it doesn't really matter what we pick as "priorities". The system will still be just as broken.
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  10. #50
    Community Member TekkenDevil's Avatar
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    Return Regeneration items that actually scale. At epic levels, your biggest issue is getting falcon punch critted to death by enemies, not dwindling down in HP slowly, so a 100HP/minute item at level 28 wouldn't really be imbalanced.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    - More expensive: restoring old affixes for all equipment, instead of just for weapons.
    This one is the most important.
    You can extend them later and you can work on the powerful bane later.
    But first you need to fix what is broken : namely bringing back the system as it was before ShadowFail and the Ghostbane of the Loot.
    That would also fix all those broken items that were created during the Ghostbane ShadowFailure.
    ( like no ML UWA items that became ML5 and are now burdening LVL 4 characters, or all the First Year of Risia Festival Loot )
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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kambuk View Post
    Fix Stat Tome & Augment drop rates.
    This too please, along with bringing back the old MotU loot, would be a good step in the right direction.

    Or maybe add stat tomes to Sagas as well.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    Hi, everyone. I’d like to talk about some of what we've been working on to remedy the loot diversity issue in the near future. Our short-term goal is to return a healthy serving of older weapon affixes to the random loot pool. If we’re lucky (sometimes we’re not!), we’ll get these changes to Lamannia later this week and then include them in the patch.

    In addition, we have a couple “stretch goals” for patch:

    - One is lower hanging fruit: release some high level bane affixes, such as “Humanoid Bane.” The older narrower bane items would go back in if we didn't. They might still go back in if we did.
    - More expensive: restoring old affixes for all equipment, instead of just for weapons. We’d like to do this, it’s just a question of time.
    - Lastly, another large, and so less likely for a mere patch: extending those old affixes up so they cover modern epic level ranges.

    We’d love your input on which of these three possibilities are of most value to you, and which you would (ideally) want to see first.

    And as a closing note: changes that don’t make it into a patch are first on our list for (near) future loot improvements.
    2 for a patch, 3 later.

  14. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    In addition, we have a couple “stretch goals” for patch:

    - One is lower hanging fruit: release some high level bane affixes, such as “Humanoid Bane.” The older narrower bane items would go back in if we didn't. They might still go back in if we did.
    - More expensive: restoring old affixes for all equipment, instead of just for weapons. We’d like to do this, it’s just a question of time.
    - Lastly, another large, and so less likely for a mere patch: extending those old affixes up so they cover modern epic level ranges.
    I would like to see bane effects progress into the instakill effects.

    Ex.
    Humanoid Bane -> Vorpal
    Ghostbane -> Disruption
    Extraplanar Bane* ->
    Whatever Bane -> Whatever Slayer

    * Elementals + Outsiders


    I would also like to see multiple function skill boost enchantments. I could go into a long rant about how skill gear is incredibly annoying to rogues and artificers.

    Ex.
    Stealthy -> Hide + Move Silently
    Mechanic -> Pick 2: Repair, Disable Device, Open Lock, Repair Spell Power
    Perception -> Pick 2: Spot, Listen; Search
    Arcannum -> Pick 2: Spellcraft, Concentration, Perform, Random Spell Power boost
    Healer -> Pick 2: Concentration, Heal, Positive Spell Power
    Things that if Turbine went all EXTREME PREJUDICE™ on, would actually make the game fun again.:
    • Giving us the racial PrE’s we were promised, before rolling out DDOStore™ Enhancement Trees.
    • Fixing physical defense for Rangers and Rogues. It’s ridiculous that you’re better off wearing Heavy Armor and ignoring your innate feats on these classes.
    • Cannith Crafting.
    • Update the named loot to put them on the same system.
    • Fixing the Cannith Challenges so that they can be 6 starred without incredible luck or store bought items.
    • Fixing all challenges to give us decent XP and ingredient returns for the unreasonable time we have to spend in most of them.

  15. #55
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    We’d love your input on which of these three possibilities are of most value to you, and which you would (ideally) want to see first.

    And as a closing note: changes that don’t make it into a patch are first on our list for (near) future loot improvements.
    First:
    - More expensive: restoring old affixes for all equipment, instead of just for weapons. We’d like to do this, it’s just a question of time.
    Second:
    - Lastly, another large, and so less likely for a mere patch: extending those old affixes up so they cover modern epic level ranges.
    While, yes, everyone has been harping on Ghostbane, don't mistake that for being the main problem here--people also largely dislike that virtually every piece of armor that drops has Riposte on it, and that many of the old worthwhile combinations for a lot of loot have disappeared. Ghostbane is just the highest visibility of these issues, partly because it's everywhere, partly because it was a rather obvious dumbing-down change, and partly because most people have completely abandoned random armor at this point with easily farmed better options available for everyone (the armors from the Eveningstar traders and the Demonweb quests, plus the various dragonscales to shoot for). Accessories have also been a problem, but that was somewhat overshadowed by the ridiculousness that is Deadly (not many people are going to complain about gaining +4-10 damage added to all of their attacks), and +9-11 stat items.

    Bring back all of the old affixes. Even without updating them immediately, many work just as well at level 28 as they did at 20.

    After that, the next push should be to update those that don't scale well to be useful later in the game. Again, some I'd like to see are updates to Vampirism, Bodyfeeder, and Life Shielding that are actually useful on Epic Elite. I don't know if we can get those effects jacked up to be both useful on EE, and not overpowering on EN+ (Epic Hard), but I'd like to see them.

    As one additional goal, please revert the naming scheme from blandness like Flaming VII to basically anything else. I liked (and I'm not alone in this) the MotU additions that bumped staples like Flaming up to Conflagration, etc... moving from 1d6 to 2d6 to 3d6. I have no idea why all of those effects had their cool names removed, and then why every weapon effect was changed to being d4s instead of d6s. +1d6 wasn't too powerful at level 1, so it's not like it afforded the team some greater flexibility in loot design for low levels, and the jumps from 1d6 to 2d6 to 3d6 weren't so big that the game really need to break that up into smaller increments. The only thing that needed doing was for the new 2d6 and 3d6 versions to also come with "Burst" appended to them with the same sort of regularity as Flaming Burst appeared alongside Flaming.

    Finally (and this can wait a bit longer), the augment system needs some work. At the moment, I'll merely point to the red damage augments that scale 1d4/1d6/1d8/1d10, and say that they should probably be 1d4/1d6/2d6/3d6, and that we should really have aligned augments that work similarly in addition to the elemental ones.
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  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    The name changes are on our "hopefully soon" list. I'm concerned about trying to do it for patch, though: the gear in everyone's inventory would be affected, and that could lead to some panic and confusion. So my preference is to make name changes part of a larger set of changes, in a proper release.
    Usually to do this change the better way is using a stone of change, so players can update their named only if they want.
    (the biggest problem is the losing of augments)

  17. #57
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldin View Post
    I don't really care much about getting the banes back. I prefer my weapons to be a bit more versatile, so I tend to avoid weapons that only work against a subset of creatures. Perhaps if the banes were a bit more potent than just 4d6 damage.
    I'd rather see more powerful specialized banes myself... Instead of a weaker generic bane, I'd rather see some 6d6 specialized banes.
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  18. #58
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNuegebauer View Post
    AND, while working on random loot, please upgrade all existing named loot to once again be useful. It might not be your fault that it all got killed, but once again, if you're "sir lootsalot", then unfortunately it seems to be your lot in life to fix it.
    Yes please... Making all named loot worth less (in some cases a LOT less) than like-level random loot was a very bad idea. Please make a pass over all named loot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
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    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  19. #59
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    Default Issue with Banes

    Bane weapons always felt underpowered and highly situational which added to my overflowing backpack problem. It is hard to carry an addition 2-3 weapons for each bane type but if this was considered I would like them to be much more powerful. Maybe +8 enhance +8D6 bane damage or possibly a damage + slow proc against that typed bane, mix it up =p

    The highest priority would be bring things back obscenity and other tri suffix items and increase their power! I would like it to go further than this though and possibly update these and add new abilities to weapons. Maybe incease the amount of wonderous enhancement +'s a weapon can potentially have and maybe more than two total prefixes and suffixes RARELY.

    Just my input, thanks for taking your time to discuss this with everyone.

    Also let the community know some of your boundries and restrictions, if you can't make certain things happen let us know. It definately sounds like you want to help out and improve the loot system!

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    Hi, everyone. I’d like to talk about some of what we've been working on to remedy the loot diversity issue in the near future. Our short-term goal is to return a healthy serving of older weapon affixes to the random loot pool. If we’re lucky (sometimes we’re not!), we’ll get these changes to Lamannia later this week and then include them in the patch.

    In addition, we have a couple “stretch goals” for patch:

    - One is lower hanging fruit: release some high level bane affixes, such as “Humanoid Bane.” The older narrower bane items would go back in if we didn't. They might still go back in if we did.
    - More expensive: restoring old affixes for all equipment, instead of just for weapons. We’d like to do this, it’s just a question of time.
    - Lastly, another large, and so less likely for a mere patch: extending those old affixes up so they cover modern epic level ranges.

    We’d love your input on which of these three possibilities are of most value to you, and which you would (ideally) want to see first.

    And as a closing note: changes that don’t make it into a patch are first on our list for (near) future loot improvements.
    1) Please restore the old affixes first. Some are very important to many builds, and the names and effects have a "cool" factor sorely missing in loot atm.
    2) Extend them in to higher levels.
    3) Banes... yes, I like banes, and getting them back will be nice. But it's not as huge a problem for me as the first two.
    It's definitely an N-word.

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