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  1. #61
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Only other shameless p2w games. People will continue to deny it hand over fist here though, even to the point of rules lawyering the definition. If they support they should just call a spade and spade and be done with it. Turbine does.
    Some people will deny anything, repeatedly.

    Do you mean to imply "most" feel one way or the other?
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  2. #62
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post
    Some people will deny anything, repeatedly.

    Do you mean to imply "most" feel one way or the other?
    Most see it for what it is and has become, regardless of their public stance on the issue in the past.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  3. #63
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Only other shameless p2w games. People will continue to deny it hand over fist here though, even to the point of rules lawyering the definition. If they support they should just call a spade and spade and be done with it. Turbine does.
    Come on, who can deny it at this point? You literally could drop $500 and BUY completionist now.

    The boxes have a TR timer bypass as well so I believe you could even do it in a day.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Come on, who can deny it at this point? You literally could drop $500 and BUY completionist now.

    The boxes have a TR timer bypass as well so I believe you could even do it in a day.
    I believe the max xp attainable by stone + bonus is 3.499M. You'd still have to grind 300k per heroic life.

  5. #65
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Come on, who can deny it at this point? You literally could drop $500 and BUY completionist now.

    The boxes have a TR timer bypass as well so I believe you could even do it in a day.
    Yeap and if you did it on a toon you already rolled up, you have 2x CITW weapons and can buy the rest of any needed gear off the A$AH.

    We are reaching the saturation point. At some point there will be nothing that can be offered on the store that players dont already have on all characters they want it on.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  6. #66
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guanmagi-1 View Post
    I believe the max xp attainable by stone + bonus is 3.499M. You'd still have to grind 300k per heroic life.
    Daily-Dice gold-rolls.

    DDO's most profitable venture has gotta be literally selling XP in the store. Get me a new tin-foil hat as I'm begining to think the killing of end-game was deliberate. Gotta gets them players on the TR train where the ONLY valuable commodity is XP . . . ooh and look it's now in the store!
    Last edited by Teh_Troll; 11-18-2013 at 02:22 PM.

  7. #67
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guanmagi-1 View Post
    I believe the max xp attainable by stone + bonus is 3.499M. You'd still have to grind 300k per heroic life.
    So roughly the equivilent of one TR3 life xp-wise if someone were to do this, which would go much quicker than a TR3 life, grinding vale fully reset each time.

    Or they could daily dice through the rest of it. If we are already going this far, might as well just be completely shameless.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  8. #68
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Yeap and if you did it on a toon you already rolled up, you have 2x CITW weapons and can buy the rest of any needed gear off the A$AH.
    That's a good point . . . get me some more Tinfoil.

    We can't have people who still need CiTW gear . . . they won't TR, might stay at cap. We can't have people running raids since they can't sell that loot in the Castral Shard Exchange.

    What if this was all a conspiracy to completely kill what was left of the end-game?

  9. #69
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    I'd consider it in my most shameless and jerky way (buying the last few lives I need for completionist) if it guaranteed they'd :
    - Move the cap to 30 within 3 updates
    - Ensure there were 6 or so relevant raids at end game and a number of quests that were worth running at "end game" due to relevant loot or mats at the same time the cap moves to 30
    - Give us a ML 25 ish or so crafting option (similar to shroud) for making / tweaking gear (related to one of the relevant raids) to make/use/enjoy during ETRs
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  10. #70
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post
    I'd consider it in my most shameless and jerky way (buying the last few lives I need for completionist) if it guaranteed they'd :
    - Move the cap to 30 within 3 updates
    - Ensure there were 6 or so relevant raids at end game and a number of quests that were worth running at "end game" due to relevant loot or mats at the same time the cap moves to 30
    - Give us a ML 25 ish or so crafting option (similar to shroud) for making / tweaking gear (related to one of the relevant raids) to make/use/enjoy during ETRs
    When the cap goes up to 30 ETR is done. It'll probably be 10 million Epic XP to reach level 30.

    Then again they could crank up the pay2win some more and let you use multiple stones in a life.

  11. #71
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    You don't have to . .. run up 600k XP questing and multiply by 10. It's laughable how few comms you'll have.
    I have kind of gone back and forth on this, but it really appears to me that running higher level quests quickly and efficiently is the way to go. I have thus far done about 1.2 million xp or so and gotten 900 comms. I am on pace to get all the comms required. I did 3 level 21 epic elite quests and 2 epic elite 22 quests and everything else has been level 24 or higher on epic elite (26). A little slower xp per minute wise, but I will get the comms close to on time on my last capped quest. I used no xp pots, just 5% shrine, xp tome, and voice of the master and VIP. I might get some saga xp rewards which will mean I will have to farm lines of supply or something like that for comms a little. The other nice benefit is doing higher level quests gets some more shots a decent random loot. My basic plan is to do 1-2 complete saga runs.

    The other possiblity is try to get about 2.2 k comms a life and buy a stone every other life and use the comms the life you do not buy the stone. You do earn a lot of points levelling as well. I may do a run of multiple sagas in one lifethen do a couple of faster life runs lives. Should earn enough points every so often to do it. That is if I enjoy this enough or what have you.
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  12. #72
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    When the cap goes up to 30 ETR is done. It'll probably be 10 million Epic XP to reach level 30.

    Then again they could crank up the pay2win some more and let you use multiple stones in a life.
    I probably wouldn't care about ETR if I had 6 raids and a few dozen quests with useful loot to farm, and would do it like I TR'd circa Update 10-12.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  13. #73
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post
    I probably wouldn't care about ETR if I had 6 raids and a few dozen quests with useful loot to farm, and would do it like I TR'd circa Update 10-12.
    LOLz . . . don't worry, in a few weeks after everyone's reality check clears nobody will care about epic TR.

  14. #74
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    The com drop rate is laughable. We're looking at about 6 - 7 ETH purchases before we get our "freebee".

  15. #75
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    LOLz . . . don't worry, in a few weeks after everyone's reality check clears nobody will care about epic TR.
    ****, I don't care about it now.

    I would like a U13 end game though.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  16. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Come on, who can deny it at this point? You literally could drop $500 and BUY completionist now.
    OK. What does it matter? If someone wants to spend that kind of cash to have the shiniest tool in the box, it's pretty much that person's business. There will always be those who feel it necessary to obtain the "best" of something by whatever means available. There are just as many who would rather do it themselves without assistance from the store. Then there is that vast middle population that probably do a little of both.

    I really don't see any reason for conflict amongst these various groups except that which they themselves create. When all is said and done, it's just entertainment.
    The newest computer can merely compound, at speed, the oldest problem in the relations between human beings, and in the end the communicator will be confronted with the old problem, of what to say and how to say it. - Edward R. Murrow (1964)

  17. #77
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    LOLz . . . don't worry, in a few weeks after everyone's reality check clears nobody will care about epic TR.
    The reality check should have cleared already for those in channels, as I am seeing multiple reports of people ETRing and their favor disappears, destiny XP disappears, items disappear, etc. This is supported to be the new time vampire at endgame? Peopel are getting too scared to do it.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  18. #78
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sebastianosmith View Post
    OK. What does it matter? If someone wants to spend that kind of cash to have the shiniest tool in the box, it's pretty much that person's business. There will always be those who feel it necessary to obtain the "best" of something by whatever means available. There are just as many who would rather do it themselves without assistance from the store. Then there is that vast middle population that probably do a little of both.

    I really don't see any reason for conflict amongst these various groups except that which they themselves create. When all is said and done, it's just entertainment.
    It wouldnt matter as much if the game started off as shameleess P2W from day one straight out the gate.

    They took a game that had a history of folks valuing accomplishment, exclusivity, and quality play, and turned it into a shameless p2w cheeze fest where character progress and character power is for sale in the store. Its fine for the folks who can ignore it and just play how they want to, but if we ever expect a competent PUG scene in this game, or if we ever expect the quality of the game to improve in terms of bug fixes and WAI system additions, we are kidding ourselves. Look how fast this was hurried out just to get it to start generating revenue. People are ETRing and losing XP, items, and favor. All of these are old issues that are resurfacing simply due to hurrying a product to delivery, because the sooner it gets into the wild, the sooner it begins making money - that is until no one wants to play character russian roulette anymore, risking their toon to the possibility of TR bugs erasing progress.

    But hey, dont worry about the lost Xp, you can simply buy that progress back.
    Last edited by Chai; 11-18-2013 at 03:00 PM.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    It wouldnt matter as much if the game started off as shameleess P2W from day one straight out the gate.

    They took a game that had a history of folks valuing accomplishment, exclusivity, and quality play, and turned it into a shameless p2w cheeze fest where character progress and character power is for sale in the store. Its fine for the folks who can ignore it and just play how they want to, but if we ever expect a competent PUG scene in this game, or if we ever expect the quality of the game to improve in terms of bug fixes and WAI system additions, we are kidding ourselves. Look how fast this was hurried out just to get it to start generating revenue. People are ETRing and losing XP, items, and favor. All of these are old issues that are resurfacing simply due to hurrying a product to delivery, because the sooner it gets into the wild, the sooner it begins making money - that is until no one wants to play character russian roulette anymore, risking their toon to the possibility of TR bugs erasing progress.

    But hey, dont worry about the lost Xp, you can simply buy that progress back.
    Evolve or dissolve, baby. I don't remember there ever being that perfect game that you idealize, but DDO would've wound up as servers in a landfill if Turbine hadn't adapted.

  20. #80
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guanmagi-1 View Post
    Evolve or dissolve, baby. I don't remember there ever being that perfect game that you idealize, but DDO would've wound up as servers in a landfill if Turbine hadn't adapted.
    Your right and Chai's missing the point about all the Pay2win stuff.

    The Pay2win stuff isn't the reason DDO's a bit lousy right now, it's the effect not the cause. The Pay2win is keeping the game running which is a good thing I guess, it's better than not having a game to play.

    If Turbine hadn't lost half of it's customers on MoTU none of this wouldn't have happened. It's the effect not the cause.

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