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  1. #1
    Community Member Blackheartox's Avatar
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    Default Average player, powegamer... Who did this to us?

    /sarcasm

    Hello, my name is Bob. I play ddo 2 hours per week, and i realy like how the game is.
    I realy like explorers in shadowfell and i spent hours enjoying stormhorns and i must say its realy nice.
    I see people complain now about epic reincarnation, but i dont think it is bad.
    I did 3 reincarnations in my life and i think that the current number is ok.
    I have 12 alts and currently my goal in game is to gather all cosmetics and pets in store

    /sarcasm off


    A post like this is something i will assume devs read and follow as a guideline on how to make this game..

    But when someone who plays for 6 +hours daily says: we need more bank space, we need more quests, we need a endgame,we want things fixed, we dont like current number for epic hearts... They ignore us.. Why? Is the opinion of a average player more worth then that of us who actually play this game?

    This is fueled by my rage as i leveld from 20-28 with around 1800 valor..

    Im used to grinding as im 4 lifes away from triple completionist.. But current state of game makes me rly frustrated..
    Am i realy forced to buy things i dont want from store and never get to buy things i want and actualy need? /:

    Darkness is consuming me as i force myself to gather more valor and lie to myself that the game is good, the world is amazing, everyhing is ok.. As il fall victim to turbines trap to buy hearts from store..
    Even tho they promised we can collect hearts from 20-28.
    So question to fellow players: Is the opinion of a average weekend player more important then that of regulars?
    Who did this to us, so that most of my friends who are fanatics go on breaks and dont want to play ddo now?

    /old update

    Need to add this isnt me complaining that they are in store, no its just the way it has been implemented in game.
    At this point of time it offers no postive feeling when you need to farm for a e or ico heart. Its demotivating and realy forces you to think how to buy a heart from store. A case where i have to think about buying a heart every 2/3 lifes isnt what i consider fun as the promise was to get it during leveling.
    And no i havent done max xp/min quests, as i totaly skiped on eveningstar challenges and many other quests like daily von3 runs etc

    /new update sad one /:
    I managed to collect 4.2 k valor for my heart by mindnumbingly grinding ee every day for 6 days on cap. That means constantly being on ransack for ee stormhorns high roads wheleon most motus and whole gianthold and random fast quests. I was non stop on meds for head pain or on rum to force myself to collect enough.

    Now what happend, on lama land when i etrd i lost all my gear from tr cache so i first exchanged 4200 valor for a heart then decided to clear cache.
    I linked heart to several people in cannithtrade and everyone knows im a fanatic on my main overvaan when it comes to grind and playing this game.
    So what happend here?

    While i was clearing cache somehow a item with autosort managed to DELETE my heart of wood.

    /assumption

    While draging from tr cache to inv i had overflow as i moved to a inv slot while not being in that slot, aka i moved to first while being in third.

    So when you usualy do that it sorts it as it places that cache item to first slot and moves others around.

    While doing so heart didnt get moved but instead it got erased
    /asumption end

    (added as this might be a bug currently in game as this happend 2 times so far, once with marlith chain 2nd time now with heart but i didnt care about marilith chain as ticket told me they cant bring it back.. Epic heart they can and sadly i realy want what i earned back)

    Not in invetory nor in buyback.. It just went poof.. around 8 days of my life.. Taken away..
    3 days(more by now) passed, 8 tickets 2 forum threads with this.. No help.. no restore.. so yea.. guess il buy my hearts from now on .. sigh
    Last edited by Blackheartox; 11-22-2013 at 06:54 AM.

  2. #2
    SithDDO Symerith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackheartox View Post
    /sarcasm

    Hello, my name is Bob. I play ddo 2 hours per week, and i realy like how the game is.
    I realy like explorers in shadowfell and i spent hours enjoying stormhorns and i must say its realy nice.
    I see people complain now about epic reincarnation, but i dont think it is bad.
    I did 3 reincarnations in my life and i think that the current number is ok.
    I have 12 alts and currently my goal in game is to gather all cosmetics and pets in store

    /sarcasm off


    A post like this is something i will assume devs read and follow as a guideline on how to make this game..

    But when someone who plays for 6 +hours daily says: we need more bank space, we need more quests, we need a endgame,we want things fixed, we dont like current number for epic hearts... They ignore us.. Why? Is the opinion of a average player more worth then that of us who actually play this game?

    This is fueled by my rage as i leveld from 20-28 with around 1800 valor..

    Im used to grinding as im 4 lifes away from triple completionist.. But current state of game makes me rly frustrated..
    Am i realy forced to buy things i dont want from store and never get things i want ? /:

    Darkness is consuming me as i force myself to gather more valor and lie to myself that the game is good, the world is amazing, everyhing is ok.. As il fall victim to turbines trap to buy hearts from store..
    Even tho they promised we can collect hearts from 20-28.
    So question to fellow players: Is the opinion of a average weekend player more important then that of regulars?
    Yes. People like you and I represent a minority of the playerbase. People like you would rather farm for hearts, which means you'll never buy them from the store. People who cannot play as much will, on the other hand, buy these things from the store, which isn't really P2W, just convenient.

    On the other hand, the lack of endgame is something that affects all of us, and I believe it's in everyone's interest to give us a reason to run all the raids, and not just 1 or 2 because they are more recent.

    Sithali-1 ~ 31/31 Lives ~ Completionist
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  3. #3
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Its the blind support of p2w, pay to circumvent, and pay for convenience mechanisms over the past few years. It has lead to the point where new system are currently, and will be in the future, designed around making money by selling us something in the store.

    Its not about a specific category of player as far as power gamers or average / casual players are concerned. Importance will be thought of in terms of what people are willing to pay for.

  4. #4
    Community Member RD2play's Avatar
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    To me the problem is not the amount of CoV's you need, but the inability to farm for a heart over multiple toons like is possible with the 12tokens. I am an altoholic and like to run different toons spread widely over levels, and I have a plan for all of them. The point is that by the time I decide a toon is ready for TR (either didn't like the play style, or when i'm just done! with the life) I scramble trough my bags get all my earned tokens and be able to TR the desired toon. (or maybe even have 2 hearts or need to fam maybe a single token to get here) NON of them has EVER farmed an entire heart!! Now with the CoV being BTC this will not be possible for ITR and ETR and thus are they beyond my reach. I don't want to run my toon trough quests multiple times just to get to advance him/her. plenty other stuff to do then CoV farming !

    Read in another thread about a player initiative to make it possible to buy "parts of wood", this I would like very much since it would allow me to play the way I have since F2P. And it allows for CoV to stay BTC. think allot of people will agree.

  5. #5
    Community Member Myrddinman's Avatar
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    I don't pretend to know the playtime demographics of DDO's customer base, but what if the percentage of customers in your sarcastic example contributes to 95% of the players, with the last 5% being the power players? I know who I would cater to.

    In a way, power gamers are like the professional athletes of MMORPG's; and just like real life, companies like Nike, Adidas...etc. are not going to solely make equipment and apparel for those who only play at the highest levels of competition.

    This is not to say that your points are valid for a large majority of the player base, but I would assume that for most that these issues are for, they will not stop playing the game, nor are they going to be vocal about it.

    Again, I don't know the numbers, but there's got to be something there for Turbine to keep making the decisions they are. In the end they are a business, and there is probably no shortage of metrics that guide their actions.
    Quote Originally Posted by 404error View Post
    there will always be bugs in DDO it will never be bug free at any point in its lifetime.

  6. #6
    Community Member Flavilandile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RD2play View Post
    To me the problem is not the amount of CoV's you need, but the inability to farm for a heart over multiple toons like is possible with the 12tokens.
    This, the price wouldn't be that high if we could farm them with all our characters instead of having to farm them on a single character.
    BTC is stupidly ********, as it has been proved by the Eveningstar Challenge ( they are now BTA, since along with the double XP nerf nobody was running them ).
    On G-Land : Flavilandile, Blacklock, Yaelle, Millishande, Larilandile, Gildalinde, Tenalafel, and many other...

  7. #7
    Founder Lifespawn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flavilandile View Post
    This, the price wouldn't be that high if we could farm them with all our characters instead of having to farm them on a single character.
    BTC is stupidly ********, as it has been proved by the Eveningstar Challenge ( they are now BTA, since along with the double XP nerf nobody was running them ).
    The end result is not bound tho and the reasoning was that the comms will be used for other things in the future and rather than add Another thing later to add to our multitude of ingredients btcoa and bta on purchase was the way to go and I agree with that.

    What I don't agree with is the 4200 price of the darn things drop it to 3000 till the cap goes to 30 then put it back top 4200 when it taked more time and therefore we get more vomms over that time than we do from current runs of 20-28.
    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    Fernando has yet to even suggest a nerf of anything.
    Oh and by the way (referring to your sig), we aren't nerfing the Torc.

  8. #8
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackheartox View Post
    Is the opinion of a average player more worth then that of us who actually play this game?
    I've pondered this a bit myself... And I think what they actually pay attention to is metrics. You know, those things that say the "average *payer" will do X/Y/Z; the same kind of metrics that say the "average family" has 2.6 kids - except (hopefully) nobody has that .6 of a kid, so the "average" doesn't truly exist. Same story in DDO: the "average *payer" doesn't actually exist - hence why they constantly seem to miss the mark.

    *"Payer" is not a typo. I truly believe the decision makers (to differentiate from developers) don't give a carp about "players" and instead only care about "payers."

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackheartox View Post
    This is fueled by my rage as i leveld from 20-28 with around 1800 valor.. Even tho they promised we can collect hearts from 20-28.
    This I think will take some time to shake out. I believe when the Devs claimed we could acquire the needed number of Coms while leveling from 20-cap, their assumption was not "while leveling as fast & efficiently as possible" thus those of us accustomed to leveling like that are severally disappointed at the results. I've yet to see (and admittedly am not inclined to produce myself) a "most efficient Com per (20-28) life acquisition plan." Eventually somebody will produce one, hopefully with the associated XP gains noted. (Hint, Hint!)
    Last edited by PermaBanned; 11-17-2013 at 01:52 PM.
    I would still like to see... Something that tests character versatility and player adaptability rather than character focus strength and quest knowledge.
    I play the quests for the content of the quests not just as an XP/min merry-go-round.
    Actual play experience is worth infinitely more than theorycrafting...

  9. #9
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shorlong View Post
    Be careful, people like Chai will come at you with witty retorts about how it doesn't seem Turbine uses metrics and blah blah blah.
    Be careful, specifying certain people's names will result in getting officially chided when they report your post...
    Last edited by PermaBanned; 11-17-2013 at 02:01 PM.
    I would still like to see... Something that tests character versatility and player adaptability rather than character focus strength and quest knowledge.
    I play the quests for the content of the quests not just as an XP/min merry-go-round.
    Actual play experience is worth infinitely more than theorycrafting...

  10. #10
    Community Member Shorlong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    Be careful, specifying certain people's names will result in getting officially chided when they report your post...
    Meh.
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  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    This I think will take some time to shake out. I believe when the Devs claimed we could acquire the needed number of Coms while leveling from 20-cap, their assumption was not "while leveling as fast & efficiently as possible" thus those of us accustomed to leveling like that are severally disappointed at the results. I've yet to see (and admittedly am not inclined to produce myself) a "most efficient Com per (20-28) life acquisition plan." Eventually somebody will produce one, hopefully with the associated XP gains noted. (Hint, Hint!)
    This makes the assumption that he came up short on comms because he did it xp-efficiently, but that's not needed to come up way short.

    If you maximize your diversity you'll end up way way short on comms. Do every quest once on EH, get all the messages from each epic wilderness, and you'll be at least halfway from 20 to 28 if not more. You'll be nowhere near 2100 comms, though, despite playing the game pretty much exactly how the devs seem to want us to play.

    Doing this you'd be lucky to break 1000 comms. I'm doing this on my current life, hit 20 and waited for U20 to start doing epics. I've one-and-done carnival, sentinels, fens, von, lod, and the first eveningstar chain all on EH, and have yet to farm up any explorer messages. I've generated around (or just shy of) 1.5 million xp so far and have around 325 comms. I am level 23, so at least 1.350 million.

  12. #12
    Community Member RD2play's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flavilandile View Post
    This, the price wouldn't be that high if we could farm them with all our characters instead of having to farm them on a single character.
    BTC is stupidly ********, as it has been proved by the Eveningstar Challenge ( they are now BTA, since along with the double XP nerf nobody was running them ).
    not only this ! It is also very hypocritical to be able to get the EE named loot by never playing a single quest on that difficulty, but your char does have to earn a meagre increase of power through TR completely by itself. and then, more often then not, by rerunning content over and over, didn't he earn the right to ETR by making it to 28 with a maxed ED and max sphere karma ?

  13. #13
    Community Member Dendrix's Avatar
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    You are expected to pay TP for hearts. That's the convenience that the store provides.

    Cheapskate = pay with time

  14. #14
    Community Member ThePrisoner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackheartox View Post
    But when someone who plays for 6 +hours daily says: we need more bank space, we need more quests, we need a endgame,we want things fixed, we dont like current number for epic hearts... They ignore us.. Why? Is the opinion of a average player more worth then that of us who actually play this game?
    Here's the problem. You assume that all "powergamers" want the same things. I've played this game for longer than I like to admit and I spend more hours per day on it than is healthy. I like cosmetics. I like alts. I don't care about bank space because I'm not a hoarder, I have no problem tossing out outdated gear, and I don't do silly things (like use a haggle bard) that might require me to have a bigger shared bank. I do care about endgame raids, more quests, and bug fixes, but am not at all surprised that new quests and raids aren't constantly being released, because they take a lot of work to make.

    It's narrow-minded to believe that everyone that plays the game thinks like you, and the sarcastic rant at the beginning of the original post shows ignorance regarding the credentials of forumites making requests for things that are not important to you. The narcissism and sense of entitlement that led you to call players "lesser" for not wanting the same things you want undermines your requests, which are otherwise reasonable.

  15. #15
    Community Member FlaviusMaximus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackheartox View Post
    But when someone who plays for 6 +hours daily says: we need more bank space, we need more quests, we need a endgame,we want things fixed, we dont like current number for epic hearts... They ignore us.. Why? Is the opinion of a average player more worth then that of us who actually play this game?
    Here's the problem. You assume that all "powergamers" want the same things. I've played this game for longer than I like to admit and I spend more hours per day on it than is healthy. I like cosmetics. I like alts. I don't care about bank space because I'm not a hoarder, I have no problem tossing out outdated gear, and I don't do things (like use a haggle bard) that might require me to have a bigger shared bank. I do care about endgame raids, more quests, and bug fixes, but am not at all surprised that new quests and raids aren't constantly being released, because they take a lot of work to make.

    It's narrow-minded to believe that everyone that plays the game thinks like you, and the sarcastic rant at the beginning of the original post shows ignorance regarding the credentials of forumites making requests for things that are not important to you. The narcissism and sense of entitlement that led you to call players "lesser" for not wanting the same things you want undermines your requests, which are otherwise reasonable.
    Last edited by FlaviusMaximus; 11-17-2013 at 11:01 PM.

  16. #16
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaviusMaximus View Post
    Here's the problem. You assume that all "powergamers" want the same things. I've played this game for longer than I like to admit and I spend more hours per day on it than is healthy. I like cosmetics. I like alts. I don't care about bank space because I'm not a hoarder, I have no problem tossing out outdated gear, and I don't do things (like use a haggle bard) that might require me to have a bigger shared bank. I do care about endgame raids, more quests, and bug fixes, but am not at all surprised that new quests and raids aren't constantly being released, because they take a lot of work to make.

    It's narrow-minded to believe that everyone that plays the game thinks like you, and the sarcastic rant at the beginning of the original post shows ignorance regarding the credentials of forumites making requests for things that are not important to you. The narcissism and sense of entitlement that led you to call players "lesser" for not wanting the same things you want undermines your requests, which are otherwise reasonable.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False-consensus_effect
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  17. #17
    Community Member Nestroy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    (...)*"Payer" is not a typo. I truly believe the decision makers (to differentiate from developers) don't give a carp about "players" and instead only care about "payers."
    If the high ups at Turbine decided to cater to the needs of the buyers, why don´t they cater to the VIPs? 15% XP - ok, one afternoon less of zerging. Great. Why not giving a monthly reincarnation free to VIPs - this certainly would help adding VIPs and they pay - month by month by month. Or even let them heroic true incarnate freely or something like this.

    This certainly would add to the VIP player base - and they generate a steady income instead of a coerced and unsteady one.

  18. #18
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackheartox View Post
    /sarcasm

    Hello, my name is Bob. I play ddo 2 hours per week, and i realy like how the game is.
    I realy like explorers in shadowfell and i spent hours enjoying stormhorns and i must say its realy nice.
    I see people complain now about epic reincarnation, but i dont think it is bad.
    I did 3 reincarnations in my life and i think that the current number is ok.
    I have 12 alts and currently my goal in game is to gather all cosmetics and pets in store

    /sarcasm off


    A post like this is something i will assume devs read and follow as a guideline on how to make this game..

    But when someone who plays for 6 +hours daily says: we need more bank space, we need more quests, we need a endgame,we want things fixed, we dont like current number for epic hearts... They ignore us.. Why? Is the opinion of a average player more worth then that of us who actually play this game?

    This is fueled by my rage as i leveld from 20-28 with around 1800 valor..

    Im used to grinding as im 4 lifes away from triple completionist.. But current state of game makes me rly frustrated..
    Am i realy forced to buy things i dont want from store and never get things i want ? /:

    Darkness is consuming me as i force myself to gather more valor and lie to myself that the game is good, the world is amazing, everyhing is ok.. As il fall victim to turbines trap to buy hearts from store..
    Even tho they promised we can collect hearts from 20-28.
    So question to fellow players: Is the opinion of a average weekend player more important then that of regulars?
    Who did this to us, so that most of my friends who are fanatics go on breaks and dont want to play ddo now?

    /update

    Need to add this isnt me complaining that they are in store, no its just the way it has been implemented in game.
    At this point of time it offers no postive feeling when you need to farm for a e or ico heart. Its demotivating and realy forces you to think how to buy a heart from store. A case where i have to think about buying a heart every 2/3 lifes isnt what i consider fun as the promise was to get it durign leveling.
    And no i havent done max xp/min quests, as i totaly skiped on eveningstar challenges and many other quests like daily von3 runs etc
    Who did what? My first thought is it would be a good time for you to go outside and see the sunshine. I suppose if it were not DDO it would be something else. You actually wasted the time to do a tripple completionist. Some people like leveling, but it sounds like to me you do not which says what about you? You sound very average to me from a state of mind standpoint so there you go. I would hardly take what you say above other average people.
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

  19. #19
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackheartox View Post
    Hello, my name is Bob. I play ddo 2 hours per week, and i realy like how the game is.
    I realy like explorers in shadowfell and i spent hours enjoying stormhorns and i must say its realy nice.
    I see people complain now about epic reincarnation, but i dont think it is bad.
    I did 3 reincarnations in my life and i think that the current number is ok.
    I have 12 alts and currently my goal in game is to gather all cosmetics and pets in store
    My name is not Bob. And get out of my mind.
    Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist (12/14) [<o>]
    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma


    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Kensai, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

  20. #20
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Casuals.
    I like to blame them.
    Not the good casuals, that are playing few hours per week enjoying game, enjoying questing, gearing, progressing.
    Those evil casuals that whine that powergaming grinders got more time than they, and can farm everything, demaning gear handed to them on the silver plate, and demanding nerfs instead of going on easier difficulty or improving their character/gameplay.


    Also, IMO, the problem with comms is not BtC status, its the fact that you can do each quest once, then you must go back in 18 hours, otherwise no comms for you.
    While it promotes diversity, it kills gear farming.
    Quote Originally Posted by Originally Posted by Random Person #2 View Post
    People who exploit bugs in code are cheaters cheaters cheaters. And they are big fat ****yheads too.

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