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  1. #21
    Community Member Draxis's Avatar
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    Evocation magic in ee takes some work. You HAVE to debuff their saves somehow first. Even then, I really really recommend grinding past lives. That +3 can be the difference between 'This is not so bad' and utter frustration.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miow View Post
    I think the op wants to know if you can achieve and maintain a great working dc with evocation spells without having to resort to debuffing everything first. At least that is what I'm understanding.
    Not everything has over the top reflex saves. Archers, assassins you change tactics.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rush007 View Post
    Why limit yourself to only electric spells? What do you do vs electric immune mobs, resistant mobs? Addressing this will make you a better player if you open up your mind about the possibilities you possess. Right now its closed and nothing I can say will change that. Only you can accept change.
    As silly as you made it sound, it's true. I like to call sorcs the barbarians of casters, and it's not just because of massive damage. On the surface they look like cake DPS with minimal hotbars, but players who go into either of those classes as though they require no more planning or thought than "what four things should I bother to hotkey" are just lousy players.

  4. #24
    Community Member HastyPudding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rush007 View Post
    Not everything has over the top reflex saves. Archers, assassins you change tactics.
    Except the problem is that end-game right now is filled to the brim with assassins, wolves, and other things with high reflexes.

    In fact, the last few major updates have been geared towards angering player casters. MoTU was filled with so many drow with evasion that for a long time it was just a pain in the rear. Then epic gianthold came out, and many mobs had very high fortitude saves or were immune to enchantments, p*ssing off the necromancy/enchantment wizards. Now we have shadowfell, filled to the brim with high reflex assassins, enchantment-immune shadows, high will-save casters, and veritable hordes of mobs that require heavy crowd control/instant death spells or aoe dps to get by on higher difficulties.

  5. #25
    Community Member Miow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draxis View Post
    Evocation magic in ee takes some work. You HAVE to debuff their saves somehow first. Even then, I really really recommend grinding past lives. That +3 can be the difference between 'This is not so bad' and utter frustration.
    Good work, i'm in agreement and i also took a wizard PL.

    To the OP your answer is no it's just not feasible to rely on your evo electric spells without debuffs. That is the painful reality.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miow View Post
    I think the op wants to know if you can achieve and maintain a great working dc with evocation spells without having to resort to debuffing everything first. At least that is what I'm understanding.
    So in other words he wants to play poorly, be one dimensional, use no tactics whatsoever, mash the same 4 hot keys over and over and still succeed in the hardest content the game has to offer?

    Did I get that about right?
    You guys filibustering a new mode have already succeeded in scaring the Dev's into not doing it the right way and re-scaling the existing settings, why in the world are you still filibustering? Drunk on your success? Schadenfreude? Spitefulness?

  7. #27
    Community Member Miow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    So in other words he wants to play poorly, be one dimensional, use no tactics whatsoever, mash the same 4 hot keys over and over and still succeed in the hardest content the game has to offer?

    Did I get that about right?
    Nope i think he just wants to prove that it's not possible to rely on what can be achieved with his evo dc electric spells. Working on getting a great working dc is one part of tactics imo. Plus I'm pretty sure he has other spells in his book for stuff that's immune to electric hahaha crazy not to.

    Where is your evil twin.
    Last edited by Miow; 11-14-2013 at 01:07 PM.

  8. #28
    Community Member Draxis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    So in other words he wants to play poorly, be one dimensional, use no tactics whatsoever, mash the same 4 hot keys over and over and still succeed in the hardest content the game has to offer?

    Did I get that about right?
    No need to be so derisive. Let people play how they want to play.

    But the answer is no - Even with all the feats, pl feats, epic destinies, bard songs, ship buffs, and a +5 item, you will not achieve the evocation DCs to consistently affect ALL mobs in ee without a debuff. Even with the debuff, those Shadar-kai assassins are a PITA.

    It's stupid-easy to twist in the -10 reflex debuff from Magister, though. Even if a non-evasion mob saves the first time, they're still potentially affected by the debuff.
    Last edited by Draxis; 11-14-2013 at 01:20 PM.

  9. #29
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HastyPudding View Post
    In a nutshell, unskilled and ungeared air savant is a poor choice for a sorcerer if you plan on going into a lot of EE quests.
    Ftfy.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draxis View Post
    No need to be so derisive. Let people play how they want to play.
    It may be harsh but it sounds like that is what he wants, as he has ignored good advice over and over responding with basically "But I don't wanna". Only he's phrased "I don't wanna" in much more provocative passive aggressive way.
    You guys filibustering a new mode have already succeeded in scaring the Dev's into not doing it the right way and re-scaling the existing settings, why in the world are you still filibustering? Drunk on your success? Schadenfreude? Spitefulness?

  11. #31
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draxis View Post
    No need to be so derisive. Let people play how they want to play.

    But the answer is no - Even with all the feats, pl feats, epic destinies, bard songs, ship buffs, and a +5 item, you will not achieve the evocation DCs to consistently affect ALL mobs in ee without a debuff. Even with the debuff, those Shadar-kai assassins are a PITA.

    It's stupid-easy to twist in the -10 reflex debuff from Magister, though. Even if a non-evasion mob saves the first time, they're still potentially affected by the debuff.
    My guildie, who is completionist druid, spams his earthquakes. He don't got +5 orb or anything, but mobs lie on the ground most of the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    So in other words he wants to play poorly, be one dimensional, use no tactics whatsoever, mash the same 4 hot keys over and over and still succeed in the hardest content the game has to offer?

    Did I get that about right?
    That's more than most of players, as majority just wants to hold down attack key and win.

  12. #32
    Community Member oberon131313's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    My guildie, who is completionist druid, spams his earthquakes. He don't got +5 orb or anything, but mobs lie on the ground most of the time.
    To be fair, earthquake is a special case, in that it forces saves every couple seconds and is persistent. If you look at the average for it to hit one mob on the first save chance, it starts to average out to what you would see on another caster casting a spell with the same dc chance.
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  13. #33

    Cool Draconic Incarnation Sorc

    Quote Originally Posted by maximus123123123 View Post
    My point is, has anyone actually been able to make an evocation sorc work? (i.e. evocation with draconic incarnation not shiradi.)
    Because I'm thinking it's impossible, at least if you intend to play Epic Elite at some point.
    I'm a Draconic Incarnation Sorcerer and I actually don't use twists since I think it's too much work to grind off-destinies just to get [one] ability that may be useful for me. That being said, my strategy for EEs as a sorc is this:

    - For starters, drink Essence of Seduction potions from Yugoloth and use guild-buff shrines to give you +2 to your DCs

    -Use Sunburst, primarily for blinding

    - Solid Fog for a -5 debuff to reflex saves, if you can spare a spell slot. It works even on purple and red named bosses.

    - Use Otto's Irresistible Dance

    - Make use of your Draconic Abilities such as Roar, Energy Burst, and Dragon Breath

    - Ruin. It exists. You're a sorcerer with god-mode SP. USE IT.


    Sunburst is my go-to crowd control spells on most EEs because it can permanently blind even EE enemies should they fail their reflex saves. It's quick-casting and spammable and it basically makes your allies invisible to the enemy, only it's more useful than the actual invisibility spell in my opinion.

    Otto's Irresistible Dance is another great spell because as long as you can beat Spell Resistance, you can pin almost anyone down with it. I used it to great effect in EE Gianthold Tor and did pretty well in that dungeon.

    Your draconic abilities exist for a reason. To use them. They generally have higher DCs than what you can get on any of your spells, even evocation, so abuse them. Flyby Attack is great for tripping even a group of enemies and it's an ability I rarely see others use in the field. It has a minute cooldown so only use this when you absolutely need it, which you inevitably will when you get swarmed by a bunch of enemies in an ambush. Fly through them, knock them down, turn around and blast them with some dragon breath.

    Dragon Breath and Energy Burst are also great for their damage and while both hit reflex saves, they have higher DCs because they calculate
    your character level in with the DC number, so you should be hitting with them more often than not.

    Then there is Draconic Roar. Another skill I rarely see used unless it's me using it. It's a fear-based will-save AOE centered on yourself to freeze a bunch of enemies. This works on spiders, humanoids, and most other enemies. The duration is 15 seconds but that's more than enough time to give you an escape, a breather, and an opportunity to blast them with dragon breath or set up some other CC spells. It's probably one of the best, if not the best, crowd control spell sorcerers can get and it costs you nothing to use. Unfortunately, it also has a minute cooldown so use this when necessary to get best results.

    Again, just about all your draconic abilities have higher DCs than most of your spells and most of them cost you little to nothing to use, so make the best out of them.

    Finally, you got Ruin. Honestly, screw what the nay-sayers say. I took this spell and I'm happy I did because it is extremely powerful and I can only imagine how much damage it would do in the hands of a force-specialized caster. It offers no saving throw, just pure damage. Because sorcerers (and favored souls) have a lot of SP, the spell does best in their hands. However, the extreme cost of the spell (90-100 SP when Maximized and Empowered) may discourage you from taking it at first, the spell wasn't meant to be spammed like a magic missile, despite its relatively fast cooldown of 30 seconds. Use it only for bosses (it's a single target spell) and powerful enemies who would otherwise resist your spell-like abilities or the primary element of your draconic abilities. They'll always take damage no matter what, you contribute significantly to DPS when you cast your other cheaper spells while it is on cooldown, and with its critical damage potential, it can one-hit kill weaker enemies, if not severely damage them. Just be careful with it and don't use it on half-dead enemies that the melee are already swinging at.

    Anyway, that's all the advice I can think of at the moment. Hope this helps.
    Last edited by Mattimeo_the_Sorcere; 11-14-2013 at 03:44 PM.

  14. #34
    Community Member merridyan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattimeo_the_Sorcere View Post
    I'm a Draconic Incarnation Sorcerer and I actually don't use twists since I think it's too much work to grind off-destinies just to get [one] ability that may be useful for me. That being said, my strategy for EEs as a sorc is this:
    Its 3 abilities that you can twist in not one. +3 evocation DC not useful? 10% more SP not useful? you may want to re-think that.

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by merridyan View Post
    Its 3 abilities that you can twist in not one. +3 evocation DC not useful? 10% more SP not useful? you may want to re-think that.
    Honestly, I hate grinding and as I've said before (if you decided to read anything I said besides what you quoted from me) I don't want to have to run off-destinies to get extra stuff. That's not how I want to play, it's not fun to me, and it feels like work. Sure, you get useful stuff from it but the effort you have to put into it is not fun. It's why I'll never TR again and why I'm sticking to my one Epic Destiny. I had fun grinding for the Epic Destiny I like but I don't like the idea of having to grind destinies I don't find as "fun" just to get one OR three new abilities.

    I never said it wasn't useful; I said it was "too much work."


    So trust me, I don't need to re-think anything. You just need to learn to read.

  16. #36
    Community Member merridyan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattimeo_the_Sorcere View Post
    Honestly, I hate grinding and as I've said before (if you decided to read anything I said besides what you quoted from me) I don't want to have to run off-destinies to get extra stuff. That's not how I want to play, it's not fun to me, and it feels like work. Sure, you get useful stuff from it but the effort you have to put into it is not fun. It's why I'll never TR again and why I'm sticking to my one Epic Destiny. I had fun grinding for the Epic Destiny I like but I don't like the idea of having to grind destinies I don't find as "fun" just to get one OR three new abilities.

    I never said it wasn't useful; I said it was "too much work."


    So trust me, I don't need to re-think anything. You just need to learn to read.
    ...
    Last edited by merridyan; 11-14-2013 at 05:46 PM. Reason: no need to be rude

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by merridyan View Post
    Lols be second rate sorc.. no skin off my nose.
    Have you ever even played a sorcerer before? My character does fairly well on EE content even without the twists. I have enough player skill that relying on that system isn't necessary and the tips I offered to the OP, I offered them because they do work. Nice rebuttal, by the way. That just means I proved my point.

  18. #38
    Community Member merridyan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattimeo_the_Sorcere View Post
    Have you ever even played a sorcerer before? My character does fairly well on EE content even without the twists. I have enough player skill that relying on that system isn't necessary and the tips I offered to the OP, I offered them because they do work. Nice rebuttal, by the way. That just means I proved my point.
    The thing is, you have already earned 1 fate point, get a few AP in Magister, which requires little to no work (2 runs of von3 would probably do it). You can then twist in +1 charisma, or +6 concentration/will save. I can understand that grinding all fate points is too much work. But getting a couple level 1 twists is pretty darned easy.

  19. #39

    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by merridyan View Post
    The thing is, you have already earned 1 fate point, get a few AP in Magister, which requires little to no work (2 runs of von3 would probably do it). You can then twist in +1 charisma, or +6 concentration/will save. I can understand that grinding all fate points is too much work. But getting a couple level 1 twists is pretty darned easy.
    Well, when you put it that way, that doesn't sound so bad. Thank you for clarifying. Making the jump from DI to Magister as a sorcerer doesn't sound as time-consuming as say, making the jump from Arcane Sphere to Divine Sphere and it is magic-related so I may just do that.


    ...Maybe.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    It may be harsh but it sounds like that is what he wants, as he has ignored good advice over and over responding with basically "But I don't wanna". Only he's phrased "I don't wanna" in much more provocative passive aggressive way.
    I have very good reading comprehension (I don't know about many others in this thread).

    What I read is the OP asking if there is a way to be successful with straight Evocation, in his selected element, in Draconic Incarnation ED, in EE quests, without drinking a lot of mana pots. That is very clear and very specific. And then I see a lot of people making recommendations to use other things than straight Evocation (I don't know of any debuffs that are Evocation spells), or another element, etc.

    Instead of giving all this advice that doesn't actually answer the OP's question, those people should just simply say "No" or "I can't think of a way to do it".

    So your summation is completely inaccurate.
    Last edited by HAL; 11-14-2013 at 07:55 PM.

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