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  1. #181
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobbinB View Post
    Yep, they need to tweak it as follows:

    1. Drop the comms needed from 4200 to 3500.
    2. Make the comms awarded at same levels as additional chest rewards at the end of each quest instead of as quest reward- keep in mind we are currently talking about not taking a single regular reward from lvl 20-28 under the present system which is crazy
    3. Add small comm drops to explorer chests
    4. Have comms show up in end reward lists occasionally but not always (as additions to those granted in quest chests)

    I think I could live with those changes.
    That sounds reasonable................be prepared to be torn a new one.............

  2. #182
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobbinB View Post
    Yep, they need to tweak it as follows:

    1. Drop the comms needed from 4200 to 3500.
    2. Make the comms awarded at same levels as additional chest rewards at the end of each quest instead of as quest reward- keep in mind we are currently talking about not taking a single regular reward from lvl 20-28 under the present system which is crazy
    3. Add small comm drops to explorer chests
    4. Have comms show up in end reward lists occasionally but not always (as additions to those granted in quest chests)

    I think I could live with those changes.
    1. Sure
    2. A bit lower amounts, maybe, because of 3.
    3. sure
    4. A bit higher amounts than 2, maybe about the amount you get now, or a bit higher.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobbinB View Post
    Yep, they need to tweak it as follows:

    1. Drop the comms needed from 4200 to 3500.
    2. Make the comms awarded at same levels as additional chest rewards at the end of each quest instead of as quest reward- keep in mind we are currently talking about not taking a single regular reward from lvl 20-28 under the present system which is crazy
    3. Add small comm drops to explorer chests
    4. Have comms show up in end reward lists occasionally but not always (as additions to those granted in quest chests)

    I think I could live with those changes.
    1. No, stick with 4200, but increase drop rate (or have them drop for every quest completion, regardless of xp ransack).
    2. Yes.
    3. Yes.
    4. No, not in quest reward list. Yes, in saga reward list.

  4. #184
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ufo2013 View Post
    1. No, stick with 4200, but increase drop rate (or have them drop for every quest completion, regardless of xp ransack).
    2. Yes.
    3. Yes.
    4. No, not in quest reward list. Yes, in saga reward list.
    Have to be a sizable amount in the saga reward list to make it worthwhile.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Dude, they can't give everyone a free heart just from leveling from 20-28... That would be a stupid business decision... They also can't make it near impossible to get a free heart and force everyone to buy from the store... That would also be a stupid business decision...

    They need to find a good balance where people like me just buy the heart because I don't want to grind out more comms, and where powergamers can grind out the comms needed over a 3-day weekend.

    This system is pretty close... They may need to tweak it a bit, but you are seriously naive if you think you're going to get a free heart just for leveling from 20-28.
    It probably would have been fine if the devs did not claim that you would be able to get enough comms going from 20-28 doing a variety of quests on ehard. That is where things got out of hand. Be honest about where the ratio is.

    Instead of saying (i) you will get enough comms going from 20-28, it will be more accurate to say (ii) by the time you get 4200 comms, you would have more than enough xp to hit 28 (or even 30). Those two are not the same.

  6. #186
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Only for the last couple years. Before then I saw alot more complaints for quests be be nerfed or crucibled, and claims that the game was too hard, than I saw of XP grinding complaints. Yeah there was the one thread where they hashed out how they would deal with getting to 25 and still needing alot of XP for destinies, which resulted in repetition penalty turned off at cap 25.
    I didn't say they were unhappy about xp... I said they were unhappy... Most posts about how Turbine sucks or there's nothing to do, or complaining about EVERY SINGLE CHANGE for the last 7 years are made by powergaming zerg tyoes. The rest of us have some perspective on life and just aren't that upset about a video game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  7. #187
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    The vlidity of any claim that it can be had in game hinges on the reasonability of grinding it in game. If we can make 3/4 of a heart per trip from 20-28, the people will be buying a heart every 4 ETRs, or grinding a bit longer once they reach 28 one in every 4 lives. Thats reasonable. If its an eyebleeding grind when people already are at 28 and want to ETR the system wont do so well. The message I am seeing from players is they dont want to get to 28 on each life and still need to grind alot more just for a heart.

    Its not so much people are unwilling to throw money at the game, its what are they willing to throw money at? This new hamster wheel? In comparison they should consider how much may be made on timer bypass for new raids.
    Yep, it's all about the balance... 20%-30% more grinding to get the heart is about right... Some people will grind it out, some people will pay for the heart (You only have to pay for 1 in 3 or 1 in 4 hearts in a system like this).

    100% more grinding (like you're only halfway there by 28) is probably too much.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  8. #188
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    4,2k is just way to much. When u20 hit live servers i was lvl 19 now im 25 (3 millions xp) so somewhere in the middle of leveling to 28. At the moment i have 457 comms in my bag. I never step into en quests. I did most on eh difficulty, few EEs.
    Some xp are from explorers on the way to quests (not much) and i did few challenges. But cmon its normal during typical playtime and noone should be limited to quests only.
    When i keep my current progres ill end with something around 1500 comms. How its even close to 4200 ? And devs said that it will be possible to collect enough or close to enough from leveling only (lies or huge missjudgement?). Im fine even with 3k at cap but 1000-1500 ? I dont want to grind like mad or stay at cap for a month.

    Another simple example hows 4200 is to much. Epic heart of wood costs 1295 TP in ddo store. Prepared player can complete 100 favor run in 15-20 minutes, depends solo or duo. It means you can collect enough points for it in 13-17h (6-7 days) I know its boring and stuff but during normal play its just impossible. Its stupid.
    Not a native english speaker.

  9. #189
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    I didn't say they were unhappy about xp... I said they were unhappy... Most posts about how Turbine sucks or there's nothing to do, or complaining about EVERY SINGLE CHANGE for the last 7 years are made by powergaming zerg tyoes. The rest of us have some perspective on life and just aren't that upset about a video game.
    I don't think its all the powergaming zerg types. in 2009-2010 this claim was correct, but not any more. This game has gotten far easier to reach cap and get good loot in all slots, to the point where the only folks who have not done so are those who don't care to do so.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  10. #190

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    The thing is, if you aren't willing to throw some money at at the game, to Turbine, you might as well not exist.

    Why would anyone think they would even develop an epic TR system if it making money from it wasn't in the picture?

    Personally, 2100 comms from 20-28 would seem closer to what they should be aiming at. Then it's up to the players to decide whether it's better to grind out the other half, or buy a heart and have enough when they finish the next life. Designing systems to not make money just seems like a bad use of development time to me.
    Just to clarify. I am VIP and have been since I started. I've already thrown money at them. Why should I have to throw more at them to use a new feature that they arn't charging everyone for? Yes I know we will be getting hearts but that is only for being VIP in Dec. What about the other 11 months of the year? Or for the those premium that spend the same amount as us VIP's? It's nothing more then a bandaid on the issue - the ddo store should be a convinance not a nessessity and for some it has become a nessessity.

    Futhermore buying a heart will not change my opinion that it's too much "work" for too little reward. It's not how the hearts are acquired as much but moreso the results from using them. I'm just not convinced the bonus feats and toggle ability are worth it. Especially for some of the "out of optimal" destinies - my pale trapper would like to utilize that +10 neg spellpower from the divine sphere but not for 6mil exp. It's simply not fun; it wasn't when I did it for destinies and it wont be any better when I do it a second or third or fourth time (even if I can bring myself to do them). Thus for me the whole system doesn't work. I'm glad it works for some people unfortuantly I'm not one of them.

  11. #191
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pentaur-Silvermane View Post
    It's nothing more then a bandaid on the issue - the ddo store should be a convinance not a nessessity and for some it has become a nessessity.
    Turbine is not forcing you to buy a heart of wood from the store in order to reincarnate. It is purely a convenience, not a necessity.
    Ryiah | Raeyah | Reikara
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  12. #192

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    Turbine is not forcing you to buy a heart of wood from the store in order to reincarnate. It is purely a convenience, not a necessity.
    Sorta like the yellow dopent? So rare it's much easier to just buy it. I've used two - both came from the store.

    If your first impulse is to open the ddo store and see how you can get around the new system then something is wrong with the new system.

  13. #193
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pentaur-Silvermane View Post
    If your first impulse is to open the ddo store and see how you can get around the new system then something is wrong with the new system.
    No, my first impulse is to realize this is just a game and I play to have fun. If something takes a lot of effort to obtain, I shift my focus onto something else. You don't need the store for anything unless you are stubborn or impatient.
    Last edited by Ryiah; 11-16-2013 at 04:06 PM.
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  14. #194
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    No, my first impulse is to realize this is just a game and I play to have fun. If something takes a lot of effort to obtain, I shift my focus onto something else. You don't need the store for anything unless you are stubborn or impatient.
    "Impatient" in this case depends on the level of reasonability of being able to obtain in game in terms of degree, and not the fact that it can be obtained in game as an absolute. The major feedback people are providing is they don't want to get to cap, want to ETR, but still have to grind a significant portion of the heart out to do so. Not buying from the store in that scenario means staying at cap for the sole purpose of still needing to grind for the heart. To an efficiency minded individual this is not impatient, its impractical.
    Last edited by Chai; 11-16-2013 at 04:11 PM.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  15. #195
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pentaur-Silvermane View Post
    Sorta like the yellow dopent? So rare it's much easier to just buy it. I've used two - both came from the store.

    If your first impulse is to open the ddo store and see how you can get around the new system then something is wrong with the new system.
    I agree with that as a player. As a business however, this is how Turbine is determining the system is working, as the entire goal of this current monetization model is what you mentioned above.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  16. #196
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pentaur-Silvermane View Post
    Sorta like the yellow dopent? So rare it's much easier to just buy it. I've used two - both came from the store.

    If your first impulse is to open the ddo store and see how you can get around the new system then something is wrong with the new system.
    Commendations aren't exactly rare tho .

  17. #197

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    No, my first impulse is to realize this is just a game and I play to have fun. If something takes a lot of effort to obtain, I shift my focus onto something else. You don't need the store for anything unless you are stubborn or impatient.
    And this is mine as well but when you have people encouraging you to use the store because something is not fun then you serouly need to ask yourself: Why am I playing that portion of the game? Am I the only one who doesn't like it? Not judging by the forums (which I know is overall negative but that doesn't mean they are "wrong"). Turbines new awesome thing should be I WANT to do it...not how can I NOT do it by throwing cash at it.

  18. #198
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    The major feedback people are providing is they don't want to get to cap, want to ETR, but still have to grind a significant portion of the heart out to do so.
    Except nobody has provided any actual feedback in the form of how many commendations they acquired during the process of going from level 20 to level 28.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pentaur-Silvermane View Post
    Why am I playing that portion of the game?
    Epic Past Life benefits haven't struck me as particularly impressive so I have been putting most of my focus on playing content that I enjoy. Already I am sitting at over 900 commendations.
    Last edited by Ryiah; 11-16-2013 at 04:25 PM.
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  19. #199
    Community Member burningwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    Except nobody has provided any actual feedback in the form of how many commendations they acquired during the process of going from level 20 to level 28.
    many have.. you just couldn't see them.. not until you open your eye

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    Why are you playing that portion? Epic Past Life benefits aren't particularly impressive so I don't even think I'll put much effort into acquiring commendations. If I get enough to do one, then I might do one. Otherwise I play to have fun. I am now sitting at about 900 commendations after a few hours of running what I enjoy.
    few hours... ok hope you enjoy the grind.. every time you etr. likely people will etr over 20~30 times.. yeah~~ no need exp potion, otto's box or exp tome..

    p.s. hard to understand why people enjoy mindless grind.. first time doing a quest might be fun, but after 10~20 times repeating it.. normal people don't enjoy it.. as much to say at least..

  20. #200
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by burningwind View Post
    many have.. you just couldn't see them.. not until you open your eye
    The "evidence" provided is little more than basic mathematics. Nobody has done an actual life to my knowledge. Feel free to provide links if you know someone.
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