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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThaddeusV View Post
    If you have a subset of the players that were able to take advantage (used it pre U20) of a free lesser and then again with +0 heart and you have another subset that only get the +0 heart but who as of yesterday had a free lesser as well... then they lost it.

    I guess its a matter of perception, but the bottom line is some people are getting 2 free LR (not counting the +20) and others only get 1 because they chose to save theirs for when they really needed it. Had i at least been told in the test notes i would have made use of it on at least 2 of my characters.
    it was in the lama forum, hence why ellis and i knew how the system worked before varg confirmed it. the lama testers picked up on this and started talking about it and a dev chimed in with the how and the why. if we dig through the lama dev tracker i'll just bet it was varg who initially spoke to us about this.

    so you are right, some people were lucky enough to get 2 free LRs (LR20 excluded of course), my now every single player who plays the game and will ever play the game will get a single free LR whereas before only characters that existed when a certain update went live had a free LR. so some people get 2, countless more will get 1 where they would not have had 1 before. that is being generous and sure you missed out on a freebie, but i think it's quite unfair to get upset over that. what you can do is keep up with the lama dev tracker in the future so you can jump on any such situations if they occur again.

    personally i still have several chars that need a LR to make the most of the new enhancement system, so they have lost out on a double free LR. but i don't care, because i don't need to do 2 LR's, just need to do 1 and get it right! incidentally lama land is very handy for messing with LRs because you can take a char from 1 to 28 in the test dojo and mess with all sorts of build choices. so feel free to make the most of that when lama comes back up!
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matuse View Post
    An analogy that only succeeds if the reason my car stopped working is because the physical laws of the universe were altered....by the person who "replaced" my car.

    I can't think of a reason why the LR from Kruz could not be carried over to the new person. It should be tied to your character, after all. It persisted through TRs previously.
    How dare they code things in their game and still ensure people didn't lose things. Heartless bastards.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matuse View Post
    If we change the word "other" to be synonymous with "wrong", then...yes.

    You had an LR from MotU. If Turbine had done it properly, then now you'd have an LR from MotU and a +0 Lesser Heart from U20.

    Instead you now just have a +0 Lesser Heart from U20.

    Yesterday you had something. Today you don't. If someone stole my car yesterday and today someone else gave me a car, having a new car doesn't change the fact that my first car was stolen. If it hadn't been stolen, now I'd have 2 cars.

    There's no universe in which that isn't considered to have lost something.
    More like: last year, you and all your neighbors were given a new car. You chose to put a slipcover over it and leave it in your garage in case you might need it later, but you never did anything with it whatsoever. Today you find that there's a manufacturer recall and you and all your neighbors have to trade these cars in for brand new ones, and you're ****ed that some of your neighbors put 200,000 miles on theirs while you took the bus so you claim you should have 2 cars because they got to use 2 cars. The thing is, you chose to leave your car in the garage and never so much as open the door, nobody owes you the use you could've gotten out of it during that time.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shorlong View Post
    Last year, and no, you didn't really lose it. It is just now in the form of a heart instead.

    Now, granted, everyone got that heart, even if they used their free lesser before...but I don't think there was a way around it.
    Oh hell, if I'd known that, I'd've used the free lesser on pretty much all my characters for minor reasons, rather than waiting until I either screwed something up badly or decided to go in a different direction (like my druid who was originally gonna go intimitank in bear form, but dropped that idea in favor of the awesomeness that is wolf). Generally speaking, I didn't judge the Heal/Spell Lore changes to be worth doing the LR (the only one who'd really benefit was low enough to not be too far behind the curve)

    I figured it was a case of only those still flagged for the free LR would get the heart, though.
    Last edited by LrdSlvrhnd; 11-12-2013 at 07:05 PM.
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by stilesm1 View Post
    More like: last year, you and all your neighbors were given a new car. You chose to put a slipcover over it and leave it in your garage in case you might need it later, but you never did anything with it whatsoever. Today you find that there's a manufacturer recall and you and all your neighbors have to trade these cars in for brand new ones, and you're ****ed that some of your neighbors put 200,000 miles on theirs while you took the bus so you claim you should have 2 cars because they got to use 2 cars. The thing is, you chose to leave your car in the garage and never so much as open the door, nobody owes you the use you could've gotten out of it during that time.
    More like: Last year, you and all your neighbors were given a free pass to Disney World for everyone in your family, and told they'd be good whenever you chose to use them. You decided to hold off on using it until your kids were grown up a bit, while all your neighbors went. Now everyone is given *another* free pass, while simultaneously being told "Oh yeah, and those old free passes? They're no good anymore."

    If I'd known that? I'd've gone to Disney World this week. In other words, I would've used the free LR through Kruz to fix minor problems on several characters that I didn't think were really worth wasting a free LR on. But I was under the impression that only those who still had the free LR would be getting the LR+0 Heart.
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  6. #26
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    Angry WAI = Too Lazy too Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    This is essentially correct and the intent.
    Then that would have been something you should have let us know.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThaddeusV View Post
    you have another subset that only get the +0 heart but who as of yesterday had a free lesser as well... then they lost it.
    You never had the one and the other "as well". You only ever had 1 free LR before, and you still have 1 free LR. You lost nothing except, as people have pointed out, an inventory slot. You did not lose a free LR.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThaddeusV View Post
    the bottom line is some people are getting 2 free LR (not counting the +20) and others only get 1
    So the real complaint is, "I lost nothing, but someone else got something!"?

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matuse View Post
    Yesterday you had something. Today you don't. If someone stole my car yesterday and today someone else gave me a car, having a new car doesn't change the fact that my first car was stolen. If it hadn't been stolen, now I'd have 2 cars.
    A better analogy would be the government repossessing your car and parking spot, and then giving back your car but not your parking spot.
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  10. #30
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    Kruz going away did did not mean the lesser was going away.. They could just as easily have the conversation option on the new npc. There is not mechanics issue that prevents it. Anyway it is not the end of the world but it is annoying and could have been handled better.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChemE View Post
    Not true at all. I had my LR+20 in the bank this morning before the update and now it's gone. Checked right after the update went live.
    I'm glad to know I wasn't the only one, but sorry you're suffering just the same. I can't recall if mine was in direct inventory or the bank (though my sorting suggests I had it in the bank), and it's gone on my guy who is on life #2. The others who didn't TR during U19 still have their +20's available. I was rather bummed by that.

  12. #32

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    So the real complaint is, "I lost nothing, but someone else got something!"?
    No, the real complaint is that I should have 2 things, and only have 1.
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  13. #33
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    Default OMG we lost an option but got it exchanged for something the same but some profited

    So what is the problem here?

    Last year everyone got an option to do a free LR. From the go it caused problems with people mis-clicking, using a heart in their inventory instead of the free one etc. included several issues that were reported with having the free option as such and having curious effects on some reincarnations.

    So when Turbine redid the Reincarnation thing, they decided that since they have been giving out free hearts now its far easier, and better manageable to just give everyone a free LR+0 heart instead of again implementing some complicated programming that only caused issues before.

    The only negative I see, is that it does cost you a bank/inventory spot (would be nice to be able to stack hearts - or even have a bag/container for them).

    As for using them - it was pretty clearly stated in everything Lammania, and I think it was mentioned in the presentation of the new reincarnation system as well, so it was not an unexpected change either.

    I know that I had planned taking my free LR prior to U20 on many characters to profit and get a new free LR. But in the end, I just let it be because of the hassle of having to redo everything on most of my alts, because if you don't play them often enough to not have needed it up to now, why take an hour of time to do it just so you will have an extra option to do this again?

  14. #34
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    The Kruz LR was bugged in a serious way, complained about, and now finally removed to prevent any further permanent character damage.

    People that used it and didn't get bugged are in the best position - "1 past LR" and "1 future LR"
    People that used it and got bugged probably quit the game.
    Relative to yesterday, people that didn't use it are in the same position as before - "1 future LR"
    Relative to everyone else that used it, they have less "1 past LR"

    And queue the QQ when you get the 2nd raiders box when you never received the 1st one (everyone else will have 2).

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    This is essentially correct and the intent.
    Logical follow-up curiosity question: Will brand new characters then get a LHoW along with their starter gear? Or is that free LR now to be phased out?

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by alancarp View Post
    Logical follow-up curiosity question: Will brand new characters then get a LHoW along with their starter gear?
    Yep.

    (The brand new character I just rolled up a half hour ago on a totally free (mule) account has an LR+0 heart sitting in her inventory.)

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Yep.

    (The brand new character I just rolled up a half hour ago on a totally free (mule) account has an LR+0 heart sitting in her inventory.)
    Cool - thanks for that follow-up. So all other posturing and analogies aside, I guess the 'cost' of this change is 1 bank slot.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matuse View Post
    An analogy that only succeeds if the reason my car stopped working is because the physical laws of the universe were altered....by the person who "replaced" my car....
    A critique of a response to your poor analogy in the first place.

    You had a coupon for something free along with everyone else. Some people used their coupon. The company invalidated your coupon but issued a replacement coupon...though everyone got that coupon even the people that used their initial coupon.

    You lose nothing. Others that used their initial coupon got an extra free thing.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    The lama notes said Kruz was gone for the past several weeks.
    Yes they did but no Devs posted that this would mean losing the free reincarnation if we hadn't used it.
    I was following the major ETR threads and the Dev Tracker without hearing about the new trainer not letting people use this free LR. I went through the 10 most recent pages on the Lamannia and regular Dev Trackers as well as the reincarnation forum for Lamania without finding the answer to this with a thread title that would indicate that this would happen.

    @MartinusWyllt the difference with coupons is that they have a clearly visible expiration date on them. The appearance that although not explicitly stated this form of free LR would be available until you used it was there. If any body with an account created after the launch of MotU got this I would definatly count this as "an extra free thing." If even a character created after MotU got this I would probably count this as "an extra free thing."
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  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThaddeusV View Post
    Years back they granted a lesser to each character it carried over with TR and there was no heart with this. You just talked to Kruz and if you had not used it there was an option to do it for free. I horded mine for a rainy day. However the new life-shaper seems to have no knowledge of this and offers no such option.

    Was this overlooked or removed in the update? I got my new lesser hear sure and thats great but I really saved the original one for a reason and am dismayed it seems to be gone.
    I have said it once, I will say it 1,000 times, The Dev's in this game never think of the what if's and have tunnel vision!

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