Page 4 of 13 FirstFirst 12345678 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 251
  1. #61
    Hopeless Romantic dunklezhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Yorkshire Toxic Fringe Zone
    Posts
    4,320

    Default

    Huh. My QP never works in Epic, I assumed it was related to the 1000+ hit points rule. I don't know how it compares to Assassinate as my rogue only hit 20 the other week.

    I am clearly doing it wrong. Moar wiz pl0x!
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    The best of the best DDO players generally overperform when given a real challenge

  2. #62
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    669

    Default

    Apples to tomatoes.

    I play pure versions of both classes. I can, on virtually any of my end game toons, dominate the quest if I choose to play that way. Instead, I try to play in a way that gets other people involved in the quest/kills/action. It's no different than someone deciding they have to hog the ball in a sports game. I like to have the power to dominate in case we get in trouble, but it's rarely necessary to exercise every time you see a mob. Quit grouping with quest hogs, and that will solve your fun problem. Believe me, at some point, you're going to be glad someone pulls out a QP when appropriate.

    People who QP all the time in full party's are one trick ponies.

  3. #63
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    3,137

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ykt View Post

    Should we nerf the core abilities of Rogues and make Search/DD/OL monk class skills just so Monks don't feel left behind when there are traps to disable?
    You found something that's missing from monks! A very, very, very important "core" ability to boot (not really, but it *is* missing from Monks). This cannot stand. DDO devs, expecting to see this added to Monks in u21 - Ninja Spy now gives full Rogue trap/lock abilities. Thank you.
    Various hedge-wizards and halfwits, please see MyDDO for all your squelching needs
    Lyrandar 2006 - Devourer 2007 - Thelanis 2009 - Ghallanda 2010

  4. #64
    Community Member AzB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1,556

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ykt View Post
    /not signed

    Monks and Rogues are not the same class.

    Monks can't UMD, Disable traps, find hidden doors, unlock chests and doors.
    Should we nerf the core abilities of Rogues and make Search/DD/OL monk class skills just so Monks don't feel left behind when there are traps to disable?
    Monks don't need to find and disable traps, they are almost completely unaffected by them.

  5. #65
    Community Member Saravis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1,406

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AzB View Post
    Monks don't need to find and disable traps, they are almost completely unaffected by them.
    For a party they do. A multiplayer game is in a truly sad state when players automatically think in terms of soloing rather than grouping.
    There's also extra xp from traps disabled.

    I will agree that rogues could use some work, but can we please refrain from making everyone exactly the same, that is incredibly boring and uncreative.
    Last edited by Saravis; 11-13-2013 at 03:09 PM.

  6. #66
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    172

    Default

    Sometimes nerfs are warranted. Giving everyone a no fail six second instant kill would ruin the game. Just like every party a QP monk joins.

    My solution is to increase the timer to a respectable amount. More than the rogue ability because they have requirements and much much less survivability. Assassinate rogues have limiting splashing as well due to the nature of the skill and lower DC's. Rogue assassinate is what 20 seconds? Double it to 40 for monks and it would still be a great skill. Power word kill is 210 seconds but at range.

  7. #67
    Community Member Ykt's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    654

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AzB View Post
    Monks don't need to find and disable traps, they are almost completely unaffected by them.
    That wasn't my point.

    Monks and Rogues are far from being similar classes, they shouldn't have similar abilities like same cooldown on their insta-kill ability.

    I don't play epic level Rogues so I can't comment on the Assassinate DC and the ways to increase it, but if it's a weak ability (i.e. min maxers can't make it work in EE content) then it should be made stronger.

  8. #68
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    411

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rush007 View Post
    Sometimes nerfs are warranted. Giving everyone a no fail six second instant kill would ruin the game. Just like every party a QP monk joins.

    My solution is to increase the timer to a respectable amount. More than the rogue ability because they have requirements and much much less survivability. Assassinate rogues have limiting splashing as well due to the nature of the skill and lower DC's. Rogue assassinate is what 20 seconds? Double it to 40 for monks and it would still be a great skill. Power word kill is 210 seconds but at range.
    Who is everyone?

  9. #69
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    3,080

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rush007 View Post
    Sometimes nerfs are warranted. Giving everyone a no fail six second instant kill would ruin the game. Just like every party a QP monk joins.

    My solution is to increase the timer to a respectable amount. More than the rogue ability because they have requirements and much much less survivability. Assassinate rogues have limiting splashing as well due to the nature of the skill and lower DC's. Rogue assassinate is what 20 seconds? Double it to 40 for monks and it would still be a great skill. Power word kill is 210 seconds but at range.
    rogues are on 15s cooldown, but there is that +5 DC to be had from waiting 10 seconds while in stealth. so to max it you only get 5 seconds worth of scrapping, though due to aggro issues if you are going all out you will probably just sit the whole battle out for 15 seconds.

    also to be fair a rogue can kill 2 targets with 1 assassinate.
    www.legendsguild.eu A light RP guild that's moved from Keeper in Europe to Thelanis
    Play DDO in 3D, for fweeeee! how to use coloured 3D glasses with DDO.
    East? West? Which way's that? Putting East and West back on the (mini)map
    Tired of chasing blue dots? Find a speed or striding item, vets are hooked on them and you will be too!

  10. #70
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    411

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ykt View Post
    That wasn't my point.

    Monks and Rogues are far from being similar classes, they shouldn't have similar abilities like same cooldown on their insta-kill ability.

    I don't play epic level Rogues so I can't comment on the Assassinate DC and the ways to increase it, but if it's a weak ability (i.e. min maxers can't make it work in EE content) then it should be made stronger.
    Yep, that is what makes sense. After all, the problem seems to show up in the EE content, so drastically changing a class because other classes abilities begin to wane in EE content is backwards and reeks of personal class envy wars.

  11. #71
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    172

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ReaperAlexEU View Post
    rogues are on 15s cooldown, but there is that +5 DC to be had from waiting 10 seconds while in stealth. so to max it you only get 5 seconds worth of scrapping, though due to aggro issues if you are going all out you will probably just sit the whole battle out for 15 seconds.

    also to be fair a rogue can kill 2 targets with 1 assassinate.
    With all that it should be more in line with power word kill then at 210 seconds, but then again DP goes thru deathward doesn't it ? This was a once per day type ability back in the first neverwinter for PC. Maybe 3 uses per rest, no Ki, 6 second cooldown. Certainly wouldn't be mindless then much more tactical.

  12. #72

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Razcar View Post
    I'm sorry you are having trouble using your awesome overpowered ability because of all your other awesome overpowered abilities are getting in the way. You sound like a guy who's complaining he doesn't have enough wrist space to wear all his Rolexes at the same time.
    That's not how I meant it to read

    Quote Originally Posted by Xenich View Post
    Nerfs don't seem to be the answer. You can read in all the threads about the problems with DC obtainability in many of the spells and skills in the game concerning these types of abilities. Now, if you nerf QP, what is the result? Well, it simply gets added to the list of problems other classes are having. Seems to me that the problem may not be that QP is overpowered, rather that other classes similar abilities are lacking. The logical solution would then be to focus on improving those to function more adequately would it not?
    Xenich has it spot on here. Absolutely spot on. Buff the other abilities to give them meaning in EE alongside QP -

    I, unfortunately, devolved in trying to highlight why QP isn't the be all and end all that everyone is making it out to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    I do not think quivering palm is overpowered, but rather assasinate is underpowered. They should bump up assasinate in some manner. Perhaps add a % of the bluff skill to assasinate.
    Again, spot on. This is where everyone needs to be thinking.
    The Theorybuild Author
    Quote Originally Posted by twinstronglord View Post
    Up to this point we've all been beating around the bush. Lolth has a very small box in which you can hit her.

  13. #73

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rush007 View Post
    With all that it should be more in line with power word kill then at 210 seconds, but then again DP goes thru deathward doesn't it ? This was a once per day type ability back in the first neverwinter for PC. Maybe 3 uses per rest, no Ki, 6 second cooldown. Certainly wouldn't be mindless then much more tactical.
    Deathward prevents Quivering Palm, as it does for Assassinate IIRC.
    The Theorybuild Author
    Quote Originally Posted by twinstronglord View Post
    Up to this point we've all been beating around the bush. Lolth has a very small box in which you can hit her.

  14. #74
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    596

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rush007 View Post
    Sometimes nerfs are warranted. Giving everyone a no fail six second instant kill would ruin the game. Just like every party a QP monk joins.

    My solution is to increase the timer to a respectable amount. More than the rogue ability because they have requirements and much much less survivability. Assassinate rogues have limiting splashing as well due to the nature of the skill and lower DC's. Rogue assassinate is what 20 seconds? Double it to 40 for monks and it would still be a great skill. Power word kill is 210 seconds but at range.
    PnP quivering palm has a one week cooldown. I don't know what possessed them to make it 6 seconds in DDO.

    Obviously a week isn't feasible, but 6 seconds? It should probably be at least 60 seconds, though.

    Conversely assassins can death attack at any time, provided they study their target for 3 rounds. So, if they apply the same time scale they apparently used for monks, assassins should get it on every attack that gets sneak attack damage and should attack approximately 100x faster than they do now.

  15. #75
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    596

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xenich View Post
    Yep, that is what makes sense. After all, the problem seems to show up in the EE content, so drastically changing a class because other classes abilities begin to wane in EE content is backwards and reeks of personal class envy wars.
    As someone who has neither an assassinate rogue nor a QP monk, being able to instakill something every 6 seconds with a high degree of success using a resource that is easily replenished seems a little too strong from a balance perspective.

  16. #76
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    411

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gurgar78 View Post
    PnP quivering palm has a one week cooldown. I don't know what possessed them to make it 6 seconds in DDO.

    Obviously a week isn't feasible, but 6 seconds? It should probably be at least 60 seconds, though.

    Conversely assassins can death attack at any time, provided they study their target for 3 rounds. So, if they apply the same time scale they apparently used for monks, assassins should get it on every attack that gets sneak attack damage and should attack approximately 100x faster than they do now.
    Wizards spells disappear from memory when they cast them and require a given amount of time of rest based on the spell level to memorize them again. Divine casters have similar issues concerning number of spell casts per day when we look to the PnP rules. I don't think you are going to be able to establish a reasonable argument of balance using such direct comparisons to the PnP rules.

  17. #77
    Community Member FlaviusMaximus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    1,636

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rush007 View Post
    Sometimes nerfs are warranted. Giving everyone a no fail six second instant kill would ruin the game. Just like every party a QP monk joins.
    Agreed. People have been calling for either a buff to assassins or a nerf to QP in this thread so far. Frankly, it shouldn't be a choice between the two. Both are needed.

    QP should not have a shorter cooldown or a higher DC than a rogue's signature ability. Make QP a 20 second cooldown, which is 5 seconds longer than assassinate's cooldown, and find a way to get rogues a max assassinate ability about 10 higher than what is possible for rogues right now. It would also be nice if rogues didn't have to sneak around and not attack to raise their assassinate DC either, because how fun can it really be to click one button every 15 seconds?

    The longer QP cooldown will benefit monks because they will have an opportunity to use their ki on something other than insta-killing, which is something people have been clamoring for in this thread.

    No class ability should be so good it trivializes what other members of the group are doing. The key here is to get QP a little more under control but not nerf it into uselessness. When QP is adjusted, and frankly we all know it's going to happen, assassinate needs to be improved because this shouldn't be an either/or.

  18. #78
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    I don't care what happens as longs as monks get nerfed.

    Shade was right the entire time.

  19. #79
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    411

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gurgar78 View Post
    As someone who has neither an assassinate rogue nor a QP monk, being able to instakill something every 6 seconds with a high degree of success using a resource that is easily replenished seems a little too strong from a balance perspective.
    In EE's or just in general?

  20. #80
    Community Member rest's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Burque
    Posts
    5,602

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    I do not think quivering palm is overpowered, but rather assasinate is underpowered. They should bump up assasinate in some manner. Perhaps add a % of the bluff skill to assasinate.
    I generally think you're a crazy person, but I agree that nerfing is not the answer. A % of bluff could be workable. Or make assassinate a combat tactic so it can benefit from combat mastery (or even sunder) item effects.

Page 4 of 13 FirstFirst 12345678 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload