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  1. #1
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    Default Brilliant Reincarnation System

    The new system is brilliant - this is how the devs expect/want you to play the game:

    0) A non-iconic character levels to 20 and TR back to level 1 (existing system untouched, but players will eventually get a sense of "wastage" because doing iconic will grant both iconic AND heroic past life so maybe they want to consider doing iconic instead).

    1) A non-iconic character levels to 28 and performs Epic Reincarnation, getting an Epic Past Life and goes back to level 20.

    2) After Epic Reincarnation, the journey back to 28 is going to be dreadful - quest completions are not reset so no first time bonus means you get less xp, and hitting ransack faster means getting comms slower, favor not reset so no TP earned, etc. So what do you do? Smart thing will be to do a TR immediately. If TR into non-iconic, back to #0 or #1 above.

    3) If you choose to TR into iconic, you then go from lvl 15 to 28. At this point, no, as an iconic you do not want to ETR (because after ETR you go back to level 20 and the journey back to cap is going to be dreadful see #2 above). So you do Iconic TR and you will get both iconic past life and heroic past life.

    4) When you do Iconic TR, you decide whether next life you want to ETR or TR again. If ETR you choose a non-iconic life (going from level 1 to 28, back to #1 above). Otherwise you choose iconic again (#3). Seriously, if you are iconic and you ETR, you are trapped - you go back to level 20 with a dreadful journey back to level 28, so it is probably not wise to ETR as iconic.

    So, there you go, a brilliant system that covers all grounds, no short-circuiting anymore - players play from level 1 to 28 depending on their goals. If you want to stay epic and ETR repeatedly, the grind is going to be horrible (see #2 above), so you will be better off rotating all 3 kinds of reincarnation.

    Yeah, glin is that good.

  2. #2
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    Default two simple questions

    I have two simple doubts.
    1. the completionist system remains the same ? a 1st life rogue, then lifes for other classes, and last one again rogue, to get all rewards (?) and bonus (?) ?
    2. the xp for epic destines are remains between lifes?

  3. #3
    Developer Vargouille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghostegg View Post
    I have two simple doubts.
    1. the completionist system remains the same ? a 1st life rogue, then lifes for other classes, and last one again rogue, to get all rewards (?) and bonus (?) ?
    2. the xp for epic destines are remains between lifes?
    Heroic Completionist is unchanged.

    You don't lose Epic Destiny XP for any kind of Reincarnation.

  4. #4
    The Hatchery zwiebelring's Avatar
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    So, there you go, a brilliant system that covers all grounds, no short-circuiting anymore - players play from level 1 to 28 depending on their goals. If you want to stay epic and ETR repeatedly, the grind is going to be horrible (see #2 above), so you will be better off rotating all 3 kinds of reincarnation.
    Wrong. Not covering all grounds. Staying epic for ETR + horrible grind attached? Wow, yeah, Glin is brilliant, he needs no sun, because he basks in the reflection of himself....NOT.

    I hate heroic TR and I hate rotating TRs for irst time bonuses. That new system is nothing I call brilliant. It is the exact opposite of my playstyle. But fair enough, ETR was announced as something, which is not (and should not be) for all. But for me it is plain bad design.
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  5. #5
    Community Member Skavenaps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ufo2013 View Post
    The new system is brilliant - this is how the devs expect/want you to play the game:

    0) A non-iconic character levels to 20 and TR back to level 1 (existing system untouched, but players will eventually get a sense of "wastage" because doing iconic will grant both iconic AND heroic past life so maybe they want to consider doing iconic instead).

    1) A non-iconic character levels to 28 and performs Epic Reincarnation, getting an Epic Past Life and goes back to level 20.

    2) After Epic Reincarnation, the journey back to 28 is going to be dreadful - quest completions are not reset so no first time bonus means you get less xp, and hitting ransack faster means getting comms slower, favor not reset so no TP earned, etc. So what do you do? Smart thing will be to do a TR immediately. If TR into non-iconic, back to #0 or #1 above.

    3) If you choose to TR into iconic, you then go from lvl 15 to 28. At this point, no, as an iconic you do not want to ETR (because after ETR you go back to level 20 and the journey back to cap is going to be dreadful see #2 above). So you do Iconic TR and you will get both iconic past life and heroic past life.

    4) When you do Iconic TR, you decide whether next life you want to ETR or TR again. If ETR you choose a non-iconic life (going from level 1 to 28, back to #1 above). Otherwise you choose iconic again (#3). Seriously, if you are iconic and you ETR, you are trapped - you go back to level 20 with a dreadful journey back to level 28, so it is probably not wise to ETR as iconic.

    So, there you go, a brilliant system that covers all grounds, no short-circuiting anymore - players play from level 1 to 28 depending on their goals. If you want to stay epic and ETR repeatedly, the grind is going to be horrible (see #2 above), so you will be better off rotating all 3 kinds of reincarnation.

    Yeah, glin is that good.
    +1 Amazing Job Turbine! u20 its great!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by zwiebelring View Post
    Wrong. Not covering all grounds. Staying epic for ETR + horrible grind attached? Wow, yeah, Glin is brilliant, he needs no sun, because he basks in the reflection of himself....NOT.

    I hate heroic TR and I hate rotating TRs for irst time bonuses. That new system is nothing I call brilliant. It is the exact opposite of my playstyle. But fair enough, ETR was announced as something, which is not (and should not be) for all. But for me it is plain bad design.
    I wouldn't call it bad design at all, it's a character refinement progress system that is for the most part uneeded (a first life character is viable at all levels in all content, I know most of my characters have never TR'ed) it's not something I enjoy myself, but it has managed to keep a fair number of players playing the game despite the fact that there's no end game and content past 20-ish is very narrow non epic and perhaps the least interesting and most linear hack and slash in the game.

    Epic in D&D is progressing from owning castles, and armies to challenging Demi-gods and roaming the planes of existence, even ascendance to demi-god hood/lichdom/imortality etc...

    In DDO epic is 30,000 hit point Hobgoblins and Kobolds.

    It's no wonder that 1-20 TR is so popular, VON5-6, Necropolis, Gianthold, Shroud etc. are far more Epic feeling than most of the recent content.
    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    You can't possibly design good gameplay if excitement unpredictability and unknowns are NOT ALLOWED because they confuse some players who want everything cut and dried and spelled out for them.

  7. #7
    Community Member Chette's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ufo2013 View Post
    2) After Epic Reincarnation, the journey back to 28 is going to be dreadful - quest completions are not reset so no first time bonus means you get less xp, and hitting ransack faster means getting comms slower, favor not reset so no TP earned, etc. So what do you do? Smart thing will be to do a TR immediately. If TR into non-iconic, back to #0 or #1 above.
    You don't want to run impossible demands for 10 hours straight? You must not be very dedicated. DDO is only for real dedicated players bro.
    ~ Cheara : Raizertron : Pozitron : Higgz Bowtron : Illudium : Staphe Infection : Abraa Capocus ~
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  8. #8
    Community Member Chette's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    In DDO epic is 30,000 hit point Hobgoblins and Kobolds.

    It's no wonder that 1-20 TR is so popular, VON5-6, Necropolis, Gianthold, Shroud etc. are far more Epic feeling than most of the recent content.
    You've really hit the nail on the head here I think.

    Heroic TR wasn't popular because people LOVE grinding out nearly negligible improvements to their character (a few caster past lives excluded). Heroic TR was popular because it was fun. People people enjoy the chance to re-invent their character, and because there's a lot of really fun content from 1-20. Content that we don't get to play anymore once we reach epic levels.

    On the other hand, epic TR doesn't change your character. There's no reinvention. It's just the same old character, but without all their gear and missing a few feats. There's no new content either. You jump back in and run the same old boring content you've been running to death for the past year. Lather, rinse repeat. That's not fun for anybody.
    Last edited by Chette; 11-12-2013 at 12:09 PM. Reason: spelling
    ~ Cheara : Raizertron : Pozitron : Higgz Bowtron : Illudium : Staphe Infection : Abraa Capocus ~
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  9. #9
    Community Member Seikojin's Avatar
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    So, you can't speed your way from 20-28/30 with epic reincarnation. Meh. The wheel wills as the wheel turns.

    I don't recall not getting first time as being a hampering ability in epics. Plenty of exp to go around it seems.

  10. #10
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    As others have already noted elsewhere, unless you plan to buy your hearts, gathering the xp to etr takes a very definite backseat to gathering the required commendations.
    Basically, by the time you have the required commendation, you will also have the required xp -provided you always take commendations as an endreward. If you want to take items or reknown at times, you'll have the xp well before you have the commendations. Instead of maxing xp/minute, you'll do better to max comms/minute -which doesn't get a first-time bonus.

    Greetz,
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  11. #11
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ufo2013 View Post
    the journey back to 28 is going to be dreadful - quest completions are not reset so no first time bonus means you get less xp
    If you want to stay epic and ETR repeatedly, the grind is going to be horrible
    Playing the game is not "grind".
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  12. #12
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chette View Post
    On the other hand, epic TR doesn't change your character. There's no reinvention. It's just the same old character, but without all their gear and missing a few feats. There's no new content either. You jump back in and run the same old boring content you've been running to death for the past year. Lather, rinse repeat. That's not fun for anybody.
    I've been heroic TRing the last 6 months mostly, so I'm very much looking forward to spending the next year in epic content... I haven't played a ton of epic quests lately, so they will feel new to me.

    I'm very excited about playing 20-28 a few times in a row. Better than just getting to 28 and staying there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  13. #13
    Community Member Stev69's Avatar
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    Are you joking with this epic heart/valor com ratio? It would take bloody weeks+ just to get enough comms to get a heart, I realise you want to make cash, but could you at least be less obvious and cynical about it. Its far worse than the old ratio.
    Last edited by Stev69; 11-12-2013 at 01:43 PM. Reason: correction

  14. #14
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stev69 View Post
    Are you joking with this epic heart/valor com ratio? It would take bloody weeks+ just to get enough comms to get a heart, I realise you want to make cash, but could you at least be less obvious and cynical about it. Its far worse than the old ratio.
    It has been speculated that you can earn enough CoV for ETR while leveling from 20-28.

    This is ideal.

    I do see this as a bummer for those sitting at 28 already but, I've planned for this and will be sitting at 20 when I log in to begin gathering my CoV while leveling to 28.

    The new Epic leveling game will not be XP per minute it will be COV priority


    You are aware that the Old ratio for getting Hearts of wood (Pre MOTU) Farming Epic Quests with a timer it did take weeks to farm a heart.

  15. #15
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    Love it, hate it... all I see is more gerbil wheel and an "end-game" that I'm frankly astonished has been viable this long.



    Last edited by Memnir; 11-12-2013 at 02:18 PM.
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  16. #16
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    Right now 21 through 28 is basically an empty wasteland especially 25+ this is clearly designed to get people to play in those ranges... only I'm fairly sure the rewards are just too minor.
    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    You can't possibly design good gameplay if excitement unpredictability and unknowns are NOT ALLOWED because they confuse some players who want everything cut and dried and spelled out for them.

  17. #17
    The Hatchery zwiebelring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Playing the game is not "grind".
    The goals define grind or playing the game. The goal of ETR means grind means NOT playing the game. Do whatever you want, the carrots, which hang in front of our noses have a distinct purpose and that is NOT playing the game casually for epic past lives. Play without goals or things you might want to have (but that is impossible at some point of game experience) and you won't be disappointed. But that is like expecting the worst so you won't be disappointed.
    Last edited by zwiebelring; 11-12-2013 at 04:58 PM.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedOrm View Post
    As others have already noted elsewhere, unless you plan to buy your hearts, gathering the xp to etr takes a very definite backseat to gathering the required commendations.
    Basically, by the time you have the required commendation, you will also have the required xp -provided you always take commendations as an endreward. If you want to take items or reknown at times, you'll have the xp well before you have the commendations. Instead of maxing xp/minute, you'll do better to max comms/minute -which doesn't get a first-time bonus.

    Greetz,
    Red Orm
    No! You do get a first time bonus for comms! You can get comms as long as there is no ransack, which means you can run EE/EH/EN and get comms all 3 times, and another time and still get comms. Yes, you can run each quest 4x with comms. No such luck after you ETR (you hit ransack immediately assuming you already ran all difficulties).

  19. #19
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    Right now 21 through 28 is basically an empty wasteland especially 25+ this is clearly designed to get people to play in those ranges... only I'm fairly sure the rewards are just too minor.
    same on my server, the exp in the U19 quests were so low that all you could see was von3 runs to run to 28.

    i have run to 28 on 2 max ED toons so far, i didn't enjoy the content, both toons had EE gear on and still found that gear lacking.
    It was even worse then the IQ quests, mobs in there could be dealt with if you had vorpal weapons or the terror greatsword.
    But those got nerfed!
    Part of the hate in the high end heroics came from these inflated hp mobs that took too long to take care of (action MMO my B-hind)

    EE Quest in U19 are a disgrace, we just kept running better and more fun quest (Eberron)
    Last edited by lyrecono; 11-13-2013 at 05:33 AM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ufo2013 View Post
    No! You do get a first time bonus for comms! You can get comms as long as there is no ransack, which means you can run EE/EH/EN and get comms all 3 times, and another time and still get comms. Yes, you can run each quest 4x with comms. No such luck after you ETR (you hit ransack immediately assuming you already ran all difficulties).
    AFAIK, you don't get bonus comms first time through, whether daily or first time ever, you get a fixed set and that's it. So, no bonus comms. Meanwhile you DO get bonus xp, meaning a lot of people will hit 28 (or even 30 when available) LONG before they have 4200 comms.
    I have a wizard who went from 19 to 20 thanks to U20, so exactly on the dot. I expect him to hit 28 in januari or maybe februari (except I'll be banking those last 2 levels while capping destinies), I seriously don't expect him to have 4200 comms before summer, if then, and sorely regret buying him that greater tome of epic learning...
    Hey devs, how about throwing a bone and making said tome give a comm bonus as well?

    Greetz,
    Red Orm

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