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  1. #1
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    Default You know what's missing from this game?

    No, not that.

    Ghosts.

    I'm serious.

    There's a disturbing trend here. All of the other (now deceased) Bane weapons were tailored to creature types that we fight, but we have exactly NO ghosts with whom to cross our ghostbane swords, anywhere in the game. The only ghost I can think of is an NPC, and we all know it's really a kobold in a dusty sheet with eyes cut out. A couple of the Cove monsters are "ghostly", as are the skeletons in Delera's, but they are not ghosts. Why the absence of ghosts in a game where 50% and rising of all equipment is named for the poor dears?

    There's only one explanation: the devs are Ghostists. They hate ghosts. They exclude ghosts from dungeons while at the same time creating enormous stockpiles of weapons to be used against them. I know, I know, ghostbane is generically useful against undead, but it's a bit of a poke in the immaterial eye to name them after a monster we don't even allow to play, isn't it?

    Now that's what I call Exxxxtreme Prejudice.
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  2. #2
    Community Member thegreatneil's Avatar
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    Default ....

    I shouldn't feed trolls but w/e.

    Wraith is a Scottish dialectal word for Ghost.


    Edit: the " Exxxxtreme Prejudice" isn't typed big enough.
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  3. #3
    Community Member Gauthaag's Avatar
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    yep, and wight is old english term for human

    tho DnD recognizes Ghost as specific kind of undead different from wraiths. actually the possession power of ghost could be fun - imagine your party esos fotw barb goin berserk

    well, we all know all that dominate used by mobs in this game do is forcing toon to strike funny pose and do nothing

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gauthaag View Post
    yep, and wight is old english term for human
    Well done, you. You may have a sweetie.

    "Lich" at least referred to a dead body (hence the "lich-gate").

    Quote Originally Posted by thegreatneil View Post
    tho DnD recognizes Ghost as specific kind of undead different from wraiths. actually the possession power of ghost could be fun - imagine your party esos fotw barb goin berserk
    I'm not sure if I like that idea, or find it disturbing beyond measure... a player character controlled by the game AI could wipe the rest of the party out almost immediately. Alternatively, it could stand in a pool of lava until it dies; there's no way of knowing.
    I'm a snuggly, fluffy, cuddly-wuddly little rabbit.

    And if you call me a gamer grrrrl, I will reach down your throat, rip out your pancreas and feed it to my Rottweiler.

  5. #5
    Founder & Hero cdbd3rd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gauthaag View Post
    ...
    actually the possession power of ghost could be fun - imagine your party esos fotw barb goin berserk
    Quote Originally Posted by Pooklebunny View Post
    ...
    I'm not sure if I like that idea, or find it disturbing beyond measure... a player character controlled by the game AI could wipe the rest of the party out almost immediately. Alternatively, it could stand in a pool of lava until it dies; there's no way of knowing.

    It'll never come to pass, but it's a wonderfully delicious thought.




    edit: On further daydreaming, I think I know a way it *could* work in DDO terms.
    Using the new animation for the chain-swinging Shadar-kai, the Dominate pose could take on a red-clouded pose with the chain-swing animation. The aura around the Dominated character would become a damage zone of some sort. The AI wouldn't be allowed to move that character around, but would simply apply an AoE around the character for the duration of the Domination.

    Whether or not to allow the rest of the party to land friendly fire on the Dominated character during that time is food for thought. Hehheh.
    Last edited by cdbd3rd; 11-07-2013 at 07:35 AM.
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  6. #6
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Ok, time for a DnD response.

    Well, "Ghost" is a template that gets applied to any other creature, IE: A Beholder Ghost (AKA: Doomsphere)

    But even overlooking the volume of Specters and Wraith that exist in the game (which are also Templates)

    There are quite a few Famous Ghosts in the game, but since a Ghost retains their original alignment, if they were Good, like say.. the Ghost of Delera, then we would have no need to fight them, and in fact they reward us with much coveted loots.

  7. #7
    Community Member Gauthaag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdbd3rd View Post
    It'll never come to pass, but it's a wonderfully delicious thought.




    Old PnP DM experience: Theworst players adversaries are the players themselves Mirror of opposition anyone?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    Ok, time for a DnD response.

    Well, "Ghost" is a template that gets applied to any other creature, IE: A Beholder Ghost (AKA: Doomsphere)
    It can be, but - and please do correct me if I'm wrong - I don't believe that it is, not even in the case of Doomspheres. Certainly I don't recall them having any of the classic abilities of a creature with the ghost template.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    But even overlooking the volume of Specters and Wraith that exist in the game (which are also Templates)
    "Ghost" is a template, "Lich" is a template, but Wraiths and Spectres are not, unless they acquired the status in a splat-book somewhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    There are quite a few Famous Ghosts in the game, but since a Ghost retains their original alignment, if they were Good, like say.. the Ghost of Delera, then we would have no need to fight them, and in fact they reward us with much coveted loots.
    Bah. They're just hired actors; Scooby-Doo and the gang would whip the dusty sheets off Marteen Worley and Ms High-and-Mighty-Delera in five seconds flat. Real ghosts don't get to play, because the devs are ghostist.
    I'm a snuggly, fluffy, cuddly-wuddly little rabbit.

    And if you call me a gamer grrrrl, I will reach down your throat, rip out your pancreas and feed it to my Rottweiler.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gauthaag View Post
    Old PnP DM experience: Theworst players adversaries are the players themselves Mirror of opposition anyone?
    IIrc, Robert Jordan also did that with Rand.
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  10. #10
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Ghost of Two-Toed Tobias is enough to justify Ghostbane weapons everywhere.
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    People who exploit bugs in code are cheaters cheaters cheaters. And they are big fat ****yheads too.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdbd3rd View Post
    It'll never come to pass, but it's a wonderfully delicious thought.




    edit: On further daydreaming, I think I know a way it *could* work in DDO terms.
    Using the new animation for the chain-swinging Shadar-kai, the Dominate pose could take on a red-clouded pose with the chain-swing animation. The aura around the Dominated character would become a damage zone of some sort. The AI wouldn't be allowed to move that character around, but would simply apply an AoE around the character for the duration of the Domination.

    Whether or not to allow the rest of the party to land friendly fire on the Dominated character during that time is food for thought. Hehheh.
    Noooooo! No pre-emptive nerfing of the amazing idea that will never happen! The game should have full control of all player character abilities; it'll be a chance for the three Pale Masters left in the game to get their revenge for all the light damage they've taken since U17.

    "Oops, sorry guys, I appear to be Dominated; must have forgotten to put my resistance item on again... Does anyone have a fortitude save of 59 or better? What, nobody?"
    I'm a snuggly, fluffy, cuddly-wuddly little rabbit.

    And if you call me a gamer grrrrl, I will reach down your throat, rip out your pancreas and feed it to my Rottweiler.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooklebunny View Post
    Noooooo! No pre-emptive nerfing of the amazing idea that will never happen! The game should have full control of all player character abilities; it'll be a chance for the three Pale Masters left in the game to get their revenge for all the light damage they've taken since U17.

    "Oops, sorry guys, I appear to be Dominated; must have forgotten to put my resistance item on again... Does anyone have a fortitude save of 59 or better? What, nobody?"
    Call it possession, and disable that character's party chat so she/he cannot warn other members.

    ETA: Better yet, let the AI talk to party members via the possessed character's party chat.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    ETA: Better yet, let the AI talk to party members via the possessed character's party chat.
    "Quick, Wail those mobs!"
    <I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that>
    "What's the problem? And my name's not Dave!"
    <I think you know what the problem is just as well as I do.>
    "What are you talking about?"
    <This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it. I think I'll Wail... you.>
    I'm a snuggly, fluffy, cuddly-wuddly little rabbit.

    And if you call me a gamer grrrrl, I will reach down your throat, rip out your pancreas and feed it to my Rottweiler.

  14. #14
    Community Member kmoustakas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooklebunny View Post
    Well done, you. You may have a sweetie.

    "Lich" at least referred to a dead body (hence the "lich-gate").



    I'm not sure if I like that idea, or find it disturbing beyond measure... a player character controlled by the game AI could wipe the rest of the party out almost immediately. Alternatively, it could stand in a pool of lava until it dies; there's no way of knowing.
    All you'd have to do was climb up a ladder to avoid him or jump in a pool. But if there weren't any ladders or pools... imagine a ranger fury shooting you!
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  15. #15
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooklebunny View Post
    It can be, but - and please do correct me if I'm wrong - I don't believe that it is, not even in the case of Doomspheres. Certainly I don't recall them having any of the classic abilities of a creature with the ghost template.
    You would be wrong, in fact, it is directly stated in the DnD rules that a Doomsphere is in fact a Beholder with the Ghost template added to them.

    "Ghost" is a template, "Lich" is a template, but Wraiths and Spectres are not, unless they acquired the status in a splat-book somewhere.
    To be fair, there are quite a few templates, like for example:
    Death Knights
    Vampires
    Ghost
    Lich.

    Also, things like Eladren and Tieflings are templates as well as all the Infections like Werewolves and other werelings.

    It was pretty much explained in the Monster Manual that a Wraith is nothing more then a Ghost made of shadow, with the biggest different is that a shade can only be applied to a sentient humanoid, as opposed to a Ghost being able to be applied to any "living" creature. IE: You can have a ghosts of bunny rabbits, but you can't have a Bunny Wraith. (Well I guess you could if you had a creative GM)

  16. #16
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdbd3rd View Post
    It'll never come to pass, but it's a wonderfully delicious thought.
    Meh, EQ did it, when a fellow party member would get charmed, they would attack their fellow party mates, was a rather sucktastics time being helpless to do anything while watching your toon kill your best friends.

    I recall a lot of people would have Hold and Root spells ready for just such problems, LOL.

    But often times it was a good solid wake up call on how hard the Melee in the group could hit.

  17. #17
    Community Member Alisonique's Avatar
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    And then of course they could walk through walls and float above the ground, ....... oh wait we've got things that do that anyway.
    you see, all is WAI after all
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  18. #18
    Community Member Arnhelm's Avatar
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    Hmm... If one checks out synonyms, one can find the following for Ghost:

    Phantom
    Shadow
    Spectre
    Shade
    Wraith.

    We have plenty of those in DDO.
    There is no free lunch.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    You would be wrong, in fact, it is directly stated in the DnD rules that a Doomsphere is in fact a Beholder with the Ghost template added to them.
    Which Monster Manual? Give me a reference, because you're not inspiring much confidence so far with regard to telling me I'm wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    To be fair, there are quite a few templates, like for example:
    Death Knights
    Vampires
    Ghost
    Lich.
    Yes, I know. And? Neither Spectres nor Wraiths are templates as you said they were; they're unique monsters. As such, you'll forgive me if I remain dubious about the Doomsphere. I concede that my memory may be at fault, but I don't recall them having Malevolence, Corrupting Touch, Frightful Moan and so on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    Also, things like Eladren and Tieflings are templates as well
    No, they're not. Eladrin is a subtype of extraplanar being. Aasimar and Tieflings are the two Planetouched races. Half-celestials and half-fiends *are* templates, and would have been better examples.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    as all the Infections like Werewolves and other werelings.
    Lycanthropes are templates, yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    It was pretty much explained in the Monster Manual that a Wraith is nothing more then a Ghost made of shadow, with the biggest different is that a shade can only be applied to a sentient humanoid, as opposed to a Ghost being able to be applied to any "living" creature. IE: You can have a ghosts of bunny rabbits, but you can't have a Bunny Wraith. (Well I guess you could if you had a creative GM)
    You are making things up. As I have the book here...

    Quote Originally Posted by 3.5 Monster Manual

    WRAITH
    This creature is a sinister, spectral figure robed in darkness. It has no visible features or appendages, except for the glowing red pinpoints of its eyes

    Wraiths are incorporeal creatures born of evil and darkness. They despise all living things, as well as the light that nurtures them. In some cases, the grim silhouette of a wraith might appear armored or outfitted with weapons. This appearance does not affect the creature’s AC or combat abilities but only reflects the shape it had in life.

    A wraith is about as tall as a human, while a dread wraith is roughly the size of an ogre. Since both are incorporeal, they are weightless.

    Wraiths speak Common and Infernal.

    Both the wraith and the dread wraith share the following abilities:

    Unnatural Aura (Su): Animals, whether wild or domesticated, can sense the unnatural presence of a wraith at a distance of 30 feet. They will not willingly approach nearer than that and panic if forced to do so; they remain panicked as long as they are within that range.
    Daylight Powerlessness (Ex): Wraiths are utterly powerless in natural sunlight (not merely a daylight spell) and flee from it.

    COMBAT

    Close combat with a wraith is dangerous, thanks to its deadly touch.

    Constitution Drain (Su): Living creatures hit by a wraith’s incorporeal touch attack must succeed on a DC 14 Fortitude save or take 1d6 points of Constitution drain. The save DC is Charisma-based. On each such successful attack, the wraith gains 5 temporary hit points.

    Create Spawn (Su): Any humanoid slain by a wraith becomes a wraith in 1d4 rounds. Its body remains intact and inanimate, but its spirit is torn free from its corpse and transformed. Spawn are under the command of the wraith that created them and remain enslaved until its death. They do not possess any of the abilities they had in life.
    And that's it. Not ghosts. Completely different monsters, with completely different abilities. We're still in a ghost-free environment from the point of view of things to hit.

    Ghostism, I tell you.
    I'm a snuggly, fluffy, cuddly-wuddly little rabbit.

    And if you call me a gamer grrrrl, I will reach down your throat, rip out your pancreas and feed it to my Rottweiler.

  20. #20
    Hero PookaWitch's Avatar
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    XD +1 because this really made me laugh and have to call my husband over to read it too. lol

    Yep, specters and wraiths are not 'ghosts', at least if you're going by tabletop D&D monster manual standards - they're a different creature. So there is a serious lack of ghosts around DDO.

    BTW, loving your username. I used to be known all over the internet as 'Pookabunny' or 'Pookabunny19', so your username gives me warm fuzzy feelings of nostalgia. ^_^ (I've been going by PookaWitch for nearly a decade now.)
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