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  1. #1
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Default Spell focus from Gianthold Augment turn-in AND STORE isn't working as intended.

    EDIT:
    Reply from FoS in PM:

    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun
    Thanks, I'll fix the text on the augments.


    The Augment GH turn-in ML16 and ML24 has two Augment for Spell focus: one normal granting +1 DC to the chosen school and the other one Greater granting +2 DC to the chosen school.

    Now, when you move the mouse on the above Augments in the barter menu, you see it mentioned as Enhancement bonus:



    When you put it in your item, you also see it as Enhancement bonus:



    When you try to buy it from the store, guess what?




    As you know, the bonus we have now are all Equipment bonus, as below:



    And as we all know, different bonus are meant to stack togheter.


    However, when you try to equip it, you will see this:

    (Effect): You have multiple effects granting a Equipment bonus to Necromancy Focus that do not stack.'

    And in fact, it doesn't stack.


    So, either upgrade the description to make them as Equipment bonus OR, and this is a much better idea, make them REALLY stack with the Equipment bonus.

    You are not only making people spend Commendations to buy these but you are also in fact charging real money for something that isn't advertised for what it is supposed to be.

    Either way, fix it.
    Last edited by Wizza; 11-10-2013 at 10:19 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rys View Post
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  2. #2

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    Wait, that screen of my belt! )

    But if seriously - thats really odd issue.. Devs not checked bonus type since eGH release? rly? how many TPs were spent by mistaken ppl since that time?

    so only exuse can be to make it WAI - different bonus types must stack..
    "I shall take your position into consideration. Well, it seems your terms are not acceptable." (c) Baal
    Argonnessen :: Marche Funebre (200) : Leningradets / Zapasnoy / Grimstave / Rockernaut / Dociznogoud / Feldshaman

  3. #3
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Default

    Bait-n-switch.

  4. #4
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Default

    I suspect they aren't meant to stack, but that doesn't change the fact that there is some very sloppy wording used on these effects. In a system that is very strict about it's stacking rules, the people in charge of the game have a responsibility to have accurate descriptions of items and effects.

    As mentioned, either fix the effect to stack or fix the description. Anything less is just plain embarrassing.
    Kaarloe - Degenerate Matter - Argonnessen

  5. #5
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Default

    Putting the reply Feather gave me here and in the OP so everyone can see it:

    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun
    Thanks, I'll fix the text on the augments.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rys View Post
    Severlin and Severlin Online. PLAY FOR FREE* NOW!

    *maybe
    Farwil, Chaos Gamblers - Argonessen.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    Putting the reply Feather gave me here and in the OP so everyone can see it:
    ..exactly as we said in our private conversation =( it was predictable..
    "I shall take your position into consideration. Well, it seems your terms are not acceptable." (c) Baal
    Argonnessen :: Marche Funebre (200) : Leningradets / Zapasnoy / Grimstave / Rockernaut / Dociznogoud / Feldshaman

  7. #7
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noble_pirate View Post
    ..exactly as we said in our private conversation =( it was predictable..
    Yup, pretty much.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rys View Post
    Severlin and Severlin Online. PLAY FOR FREE* NOW!

    *maybe
    Farwil, Chaos Gamblers - Argonessen.

  8. #8
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Default

    So, non stacking and thus totally and completely worthless. It isn't like you can slot +4 at ML16 like that Stormhorm item.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Bait-n-switch.
    Otherwise known as, Feather we need LOTS of help on enhancement and reincarnation system, here is your new hat to wear:

    Assistant Hammersmith of Action Points neglector of Ghostbane fans

  10. #10

    Default

    The augments function the way they always have.
    So the issue for you guys isn't the description bug, it's that the augments are now less useful because loot scales up higher as of Shadowfell?

    That makes a lot of sense, actually.
    Originally, the point of Augments wasn't to put in a lot of new stacking bonuses. Instead, they're there to help you slot the stats you want on a certain item, and reduce the gear juggling.

    That's why (with few exceptions), the bonuses from them don't stack with normal equipment.

    Now, a change to the augments could happen, but the impact is a little larger than it looks at first glance.

    • It means that every spellcaster should be slotting DC boosting augments, or they're doing it wrong.
    • It also means that we need to assume everyone's DC-based spells will start being successful 10% more often.
    • And it means that we'll need to be more careful with DC increases in the future... if we raised the amount available in treasure and added a new tier of it in augments, that's double the power creep.


    That said, I'm okay with it. I'm making the augments stack. They are pretty useless at present.
    (This is going into our development build, which will become Update 21).

  11. #11

    Default

    Welcome back to the equipment world Feather.

  12. #12

    Default

    Hmm...at least they are yellow which is not much use so far.

    At level 24 ~ stacking +2 going into yellow slot.

    At level 30 ~ so close to 24, probably not a +3?

    Equipment wise a possible +7 DC item might not happen, leaving DC +5 towards the max end?


    With no change to augments, we probably have to slot multiple DC items.
    With change to augments, we probably have to slot more augments.

    I'm not sure, but it seems half dozen of one or another.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    • It means that every spellcaster should be slotting DC boosting augments, or they're doing it wrong.
    • It also means that we need to assume everyone's DC-based spells will start being successful 10% more often.
    • And it means that we'll need to be more careful with DC increases in the future... if we raised the amount available in treasure and added a new tier of it in augments, that's double the power creep.
    Some counterpoints to those arguments:

    • As long as there's enough slots to go around. With the rise of lootgen, that's OK, since those can spawn with slots, but if the pendulum swings back towards non-slotted named items again, and there's only enough slots for the "must have" things like DC boosting, then we're right back where we started, where we'll have to gear-juggle. What you DONT want to have happen is for someone to have to forego a piece of named loot for lootgen, just because they need 5 Yellow slots and they only have 4.
    • I think that's a correction towards the mean, rather than something that itself needs correction. DC spellcasting is famously difficult at the top end of play (ie, the level of play for which fully augmented gear is required). I don't think you should have too much that needs rebalancing because of +2 DCs alone, not unless you're adding in additional DCs elsewhere or nerfing mob saves. Especially since "woo-woo" is nerfed, that's actually effectively boosting mob saves.
    • Since you're approaching "final level cap" of 30, that provides a target for "final power cap" for saves. Plus, no one said you have to raise both together, if they stack. Maybe L30+ loot drops with +3, but the augments only go up to +2. You'd have to reslot your +2 Augment if you replaced the gear it was in with new L30 gear, anyway, so its not like it'd be an "augments aren't useful after L25" situation or anything.

  14. #14
    Community Member Ovrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    • It means that every spellcaster should be slotting DC boosting augments, or they're doing it wrong.
    Well, currently, all casters should be wearing a DC and base stat item, have all past lives, use the proper ED enhancements, and use yugo pots constantly, or they're doing it wrong. Letting them get a 2 DC of leeway would hardly be game breaking.
    We want more Monster Manuals.

  15. #15

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    Don't forget the players who claim to drink DDO store potions every 10 minutes?

    Rolls eyes, and saves TP for more practical things, like um, glowing eyes?

  16. #16
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    The augments function the way they always have.
    So the issue for you guys isn't the description bug, it's that the augments are now less useful because loot scales up higher as of Shadowfell?

    That makes a lot of sense, actually.
    Originally, the point of Augments wasn't to put in a lot of new stacking bonuses. Instead, they're there to help you slot the stats you want on a certain item, and reduce the gear juggling.

    That's why (with few exceptions), the bonuses from them don't stack with normal equipment.

    Now, a change to the augments could happen, but the impact is a little larger than it looks at first glance.

    • It means that every spellcaster should be slotting DC boosting augments, or they're doing it wrong.
    • It also means that we need to assume everyone's DC-based spells will start being successful 10% more often.
    • And it means that we'll need to be more careful with DC increases in the future... if we raised the amount available in treasure and added a new tier of it in augments, that's double the power creep.


    That said, I'm okay with it. I'm making the augments stack. They are pretty useless at present.
    (This is going into our development build, which will become Update 21).
    Some points:

    1) They are already doing it. Currently, if you haven't a +5 focus item, +10 stat etc, you are doing it wrong.
    2-3) DC casting is already pretty hard as it is in the current Stormhorns. It is both Spell points intensive AND risky (Debuffs take time and more time to kill an enemy = more opportunities to get hit).

    Also, we have experienced this already when Spell Focus Mastery was bugged and was stacking with everything else. The fact is: those +2 DCs were not gamebreaking in any way and the increase was actually a small increase for the current endgame.

    So, regarding your 3) precisely, even if you keep the current DCs and mobs saves, these +2 DCs are hardly breaking. As Ovrad pointed out, DC casters requires already:

    Past lives
    Top gear
    Some kind of Debuffs
    Proper ED and Twists
    Constant Yugo Pot

    In the end, since we are raising the cap to 30 soon (and supposedly staying at lv30 for a while), my point is, as Ovrad said:

    Letting them get a 2 DC of leeway would hardly be game breaking.

    Anyway, appreciated the reply.
    Last edited by Wizza; 11-10-2013 at 02:08 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rys View Post
    Severlin and Severlin Online. PLAY FOR FREE* NOW!

    *maybe
    Farwil, Chaos Gamblers - Argonessen.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    The augments function the way they always have.
    So the issue for you guys isn't the description bug, it's that the augments are now less useful because loot scales up higher as of Shadowfell?

    That makes a lot of sense, actually.
    Originally, the point of Augments wasn't to put in a lot of new stacking bonuses. Instead, they're there to help you slot the stats you want on a certain item, and reduce the gear juggling.

    That's why (with few exceptions), the bonuses from them don't stack with normal equipment.

    Now, a change to the augments could happen, but the impact is a little larger than it looks at first glance.

    • It means that every spellcaster should be slotting DC boosting augments, or they're doing it wrong.
    • It also means that we need to assume everyone's DC-based spells will start being successful 10% more often.
    • And it means that we'll need to be more careful with DC increases in the future... if we raised the amount available in treasure and added a new tier of it in augments, that's double the power creep.


    That said, I'm okay with it. I'm making the augments stack. They are pretty useless at present.
    (This is going into our development build, which will become Update 21).
    I actually like augments and think they would be useful if I could get them. Is it WAI that in the past 2 months I have only looted 2 augment gems (1 +30 striding, 1 +1 Resistance)? I play at least 3 nights a week completing at least 6 quests a week (that's if they're long or we're doing explores). I don't mind getting the occasional augment from GH or the AH (NWIH I'm using the Collectible Vendors) but I'm not going to get all the augments for 4-5 characters that way. And there currently aren't any examples of augments that I want on the AH and maybe 1 example on the Shard AH for way too many shards. I currently have augment slots on 3 characters that are empty because of lack of augments.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    That said, I'm okay with it. I'm making the augments stack. They are pretty useless at present.
    (This is going into our development build, which will become Update 21).
    Could you also please change spell focus mastery to stack, like they did when U19 went live? It is frustrating that the tablecloth from fot (the current endgame raid) is largely pointless thanks to +5 dc items.

  19. #19
    Community Member Ebondevil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    Now, a change to the augments could happen, but the impact is a little larger than it looks at first glance.

    • It means that every spellcaster should be slotting DC boosting augments, or they're doing it wrong.
    Personally I think that's something of a design flaw, nothing should be Mandatory in that sort of manner, to say that those without are doing it wrong implies that they will fail more often than not.

    Those without should be viable, those with should be more reliable.

    If you balance around the best, then you are more likely to alienate new or casual players.

  20. #20

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    I am not sure its possible to max out several multiple schools effectively.

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