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  1. #21
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    When an unsatisfied premium leaves, they already got the money they are going to get out of them.
    Except this is exactly the same as with the VIP players who quit. They already got the money they are going to get out of them. If we are talking about potential loses, then we need to start taking into consideration purchases that a Premium player would have made if they remained. Races, classes, new adventure packs, etc. Simply because someone is Premium does not mean they are automatically paying less than VIP.
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  2. #22
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    Except this is exactly the same as with the VIP players who quit. They already got the money they are going to get out of them. If we are talking about potential loses, then we need to start taking into consideration purchases that a Premium player would have made if they remained. Races, classes, new adventure packs, etc. Simply because someone is Premium does not mean they are automatically paying less than VIP.
    Remember that a VIP pays as long as he plays. Unless he just quits VIP.

    While a premium has possibly paid for everything already, and the money you get is the random purchase of more or less unnecessary stuff.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  3. #23
    Community Member Eilierie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexraven View Post
    You can buy packs on sale as a VIP, contact customer support by phone or ticket and they will do it for you.
    That is part of my point, why can't I just log into the store and buy the dang things I want to buy ?

    That's cool I can submit a ticket or call and spend 10 minutes doing something that would normally take all of 60 seconds ?

    Anyhow, I can't even look at the packs to see what they cost because they are blacked out.

    Lastly, snowball meet thread, thread meet snowball LOL.

    I wasn't looking to debate about virtues of VIP vs Premium, but hey whatever I'm a casual player, I use VIP in the winter time when I have time to play because that is what I do. Then in the summer I am premium because that works for me. Just want to be able to buy packs while I am VIP so that I may use them when it comes summer time....

  4. #24
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Out of curiosity, you have removed the check that keeps everything you already own (as a VIP) from showing, right?
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  5. #25
    Community Member Eilierie's Avatar
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    You talking about the check box in the LFM panel ?

    EDIT - nvm I see what you are talking about thanks !

    EDIT 2 - Ha, while I can see what the packs cost, so that I can call or make a ticket, I done forgot what I do and don't own LOL *facepalm*
    Last edited by Eilierie; 11-10-2013 at 08:40 AM.

  6. #26

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    First off how many points does it take to own everything? Because with VIP and both the xpacks I have everything. I pay my $100/year for VIP if I can afford it otherwise I just use my saved up points to buy a pack or two till I can. VIP just has way too many perks to not be VIP. Just the simple fact I level faster being VIP is more than enough for me.

  7. #27
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    While a premium has possibly paid for everything already, and the money you get is the random purchase of more or less unnecessary stuff.
    My purchases may be little more than random, but I spend more than the cost of VIP on a monthly basis.
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  8. #28
    The Hatchery Paleus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eilierie View Post
    can't buy packs when on sale.

    i know this is how its been since how its been.

    why punish VIP subscribers by not allowing them to participate in sales ? seriously !?!
    Going back to your original question, I would have to say its because Turbine is a business. If you are VIP accruing monthly points and favor TP when a sale of packs rolls around you could in theory just buy up all the packs, cancel subscription and not pay a dime more to Turbine. One can see how that's not in their interest. Of course, if they could convince you to stay VIP through its own merits and spend those points instead on QoL purchases that'd be better for them. But, in the absence of that being able to make sure you don't have this easy escape hatch from paying for your gaming addiction works. But, on top of that if as others suggest you contact customer support you could in theory do it, but even when offering that option why not throw this one last little hurdle in your way to keep you from cancelling your sub? Then for Turbine its a question if all of the hurdles are enough to make you want to quit the game altogether or if you'll still keep paying.

    And of course it's probably just how the store was designed originally that didn't account for this, and making some way of accounting for it once the problem was realized costs money. So, again, why spend money fixing an issue that makes it easier for people to stop paying regularly?
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  9. #29
    Community Member Shorlong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    My purchases may be little more than random, but I spend more than the cost of VIP on a monthly basis.
    You also have to remember, most VIP spend above and beyond their sub price every month as well.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnziteBob View Post
    First off how many points does it take to own everything?
    To mimic VIP, you need to buy the following:

    • Races: Warforged, Helf, Horc - 2,790 (Using half-blood pack)
    • Classes: Druid, Monk - 2,490 TP
    • Basic Shared bank: 1,495 TP
    • Extra 6 character slots (to mimic VIP's 10): 3,750 TP
    • Challenge packs: 1,990 TP
    • Monster Manuals: 1,190 TP
    • Hall of Heroes: 795 TP
    • All adventure packs, sans expansions: 15,545 TP


    Total: 30,045 TP. That is roughly $260 if you buy points by their normal price. You can get this number lowered by buying points during double/triple bonus points sales, and buying stuff when it is discounted.

    You can add the expansions in the math too. Buying SC/MotU together also removes 5,790 TP from the list above from getting 4 adventure packs, eveningstar challenges, druid, and 2k TP. That makes the total 24,255 TP, which is $220 + $48 in expansions ($268 total. A bit more costly, but includes expansion quests and EDs).

    Of course, this do not include the other VIP perks, like the montly 500 TP, free weekly gold roll, 10% extra XP, and ability to open elite directly on a first life character.
    Last edited by nibel; 11-10-2013 at 10:58 AM. Reason: Drow, artie and fvs are not free to VIP. Math redone.
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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnziteBob View Post
    VIP just has way too many perks to not be VIP. Just the simple fact I level faster being VIP is more than enough for me.
    Does this have to do with Bravery Bonuses and Streaks?
    If i understood correctly how they work, non-VIPs can't get them, cause they can't open a quest on higher difficulty than Normal the 1st time they run it... except if they group with a VIP-player who will unlock those difficulties?

    Or maybe even the VIP ability to skip a certain quest in a Saga?


    Such choices (i bet there other examples, too) may make sense on the Marketing level [bonuses to subscribers in order to keep them satisfied], but they are illogical imo on the Gameplay level [What, i'm not elligible for braveness cause i don't pay a subscription?!? o.O]

  12. #32
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    Nobody else plays my game - so nobody else has any right to say how I should or should not spend my money. If I want to be VIP, it's my choice. If I want to stay Premium, well that's my choice too. If I want to be Premium and buy oodles of Shards to spend on Gold Rolls or the ASAH, or buy all the pets I can as a VIP, or wait and buy only the content on Deep Deep Discount... my money/my choice.


    Too many people concerned with how the next fella is applying their cash to this game. Just play how you want to play and don't worry about the rest.
    The best "reason" to be either is that it makes you happier or works best for your situation. I don't care if another player is VIP or Premium because I don't pay their way - and vice versa. My reasons are best for me. If they aren't best for you - I don't care.
    Last edited by Memnir; 11-10-2013 at 10:05 AM.
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  13. #33
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Why buy a dying game you can get banned from at any time?
    If you don't exploit you won't get banned.

    That simple.

    Difficult concept for many to grasp as they think it is Turbines fault for them exploiting and someone else fault for them getting caught.

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    You could easily spend under $200 to unlock everything. If you plan on playing for at least 2 more years, you break even (100/year sub). This is a cheap price to pay for countless hours of entertainment, but I am not throwing Turbine extra money just because it is the nice thing to do.
    It would cost me a lot more than 200 to get what I have now as a VIP plus I would lose elite/first time opening

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  15. #35
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    Except this is exactly the same as with the VIP players who quit. They already got the money they are going to get out of them. If we are talking about potential loses, then we need to start taking into consideration purchases that a Premium player would have made if they remained. Races, classes, new adventure packs, etc. Simply because someone is Premium does not mean they are automatically paying less than VIP.
    Premium can pay lump sum up front and then not pay again. There are a growing number of premium who have done this and then not paid again for years now. I know folks who have 37k points AFTER they bought everything they want due to TRing a lot and such, over years of time. How is Turbine getting another dime out of these folks. When the next content comes out they will buy it with points, not money. On the other hand VIP pays 10 bucks a month, each month they are VIP. So no, your statement is incorrect, in terms of degree.

    Automatically no, but by degree, they can easily pay less money, and have shown they can and will if the game doesn't entice them to do so.
    Last edited by Chai; 11-10-2013 at 11:04 AM.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  16. #36
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    If you don't exploit you won't get banned.

    That simple.

    Difficult concept for many to grasp as they think it is Turbines fault for them exploiting and someone else fault for them getting caught.
    You must not have been around a couple mabars ago. Theres a reason the term maban exists.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  17. #37
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    If you don't exploit you won't get banned.
    Except in cases where you get mislabeled as an exploiter. There was an incident, hinted at by Chai, where a large number of those taking part in Mabar were incorrectly banned. The proof that it was an accident consists of the emails many of those players later received consisting of an apology and a small sum of TP to try to make up for the loss. Getting banned is not as black and white as you would like to think it is.
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  18. #38
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eilierie View Post
    You talking about the check box in the LFM panel ?

    EDIT - nvm I see what you are talking about thanks !

    EDIT 2 - Ha, while I can see what the packs cost, so that I can call or make a ticket, I done forgot what I do and don't own LOL *facepalm*
    Now THAT is another problem.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    You must not have been around a couple mabars ago. Theres a reason the term maban exists.
    I was around the time it happened, some friends of mine were banned, too, but don't remember what was the (false) reason for the ban... Were they supposedly exploiting the Dragon fight or something?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    Except in cases where you get mislabeled as an exploiter. There was an incident, hinted at by Chai, where a large number of those taking part in Mabar were incorrectly banned. The proof that it was an accident consists of the emails many of those players later received consisting of an apology and a small sum of TP to try to make up for the loss. Getting banned is not as black and white as you would like to think it is.
    Well, at least it happened only once some years ago, and Turbine reversed the ban, apologised, and gave some TP present... I remember thinking that maybe i missed on some easy TP by not getting banned
    But certainly, until Turbine did all that, the situation was grim.



    Quote Originally Posted by Eilierie View Post
    EDIT 2 - Ha, while I can see what the packs cost, so that I can call or make a ticket, I done forgot what I do and don't own LOL *facepalm*
    I think that if you log on your f2p account, the packs you own will be greyed-out or something, preventing you from paying for them twice.

  20. #40
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    From my experience with non-VIP guildies, the best part of being a non-VIP is the whinging, moaning and crying they do over VIPs getting 10% bonus XP. They derive immense pleasure from complaining about it.

    Geoff.

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