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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by caellwin View Post
    unless im forgetting something the epic past lives are free, meaning they don't cost a feat so you need to compare them to the passive PL for heroics only or the chosen only if they do cost.

    then their is the other large issue. How long does it take and how hard are the Heroic levels 1-20 compared to the epic levels 20-28. Make sure to use the u20 exp table/chart.
    I am only comparing them to the passive.

    As for 3 PRR perhaps giving you nothing, +2 spell pen doesn't give you anything if you dont cast spells, I don't think every past life needs to be beneficial to everyone. If you dont want more PRR then you're actually really well off - the divine destiny is the one most melee want but dont want to grind for.

    And most people can use the PRR. You're right, some tank builds don't. Tank builds are completely unnecessary and a waste of a party slot outside off EE LOB, and I haven't seen an lfm for that in ages.

  2. #22
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakHar View Post
    I am only comparing them to the passive.

    As for 3 PRR perhaps giving you nothing, +2 spell pen doesn't give you anything if you dont cast spells, I don't think every past life needs to be beneficial to everyone. If you dont want more PRR then you're actually really well off - the divine destiny is the one most melee want but dont want to grind for.

    And most people can use the PRR. You're right, some tank builds don't. Tank builds are completely unnecessary and a waste of a party slot outside off EE LOB, and I haven't seen an lfm for that in ages.
    You're comparing apples and oranges here. If you can't use the +2 Spell Pen, because you don't cast spells, then yes, it's useless, but if you do cast spells, it's never useless unless you're perpetually playing super-easy content (Casual); however, 3 PRR can be useless for many characters that want PRR. Going from 60-70 PRR is an increase of 3% reduction, which means that 3 points is equivalent to just under a 1% increase, for example, and you don't need to be a tank build to have that much PRR. Even in the 30s, +3 PRR is only about a 1.5% increase in damage mitigation.
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  3. #23
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    You're comparing apples and oranges here. If you can't use the +2 Spell Pen, because you don't cast spells, then yes, it's useless, but if you do cast spells, it's never useless unless you're perpetually playing super-easy content (Casual); however, 3 PRR can be useless for many characters that want PRR. Going from 60-70 PRR is an increase of 3% reduction, which means that 3 points is equivalent to just under a 1% increase, for example, and you don't need to be a tank build to have that much PRR. Even in the 30s, +3 PRR is only about a 1.5% increase in damage mitigation.
    Monk Heroic PL gives +1 to damage which is around 1% more DPS for most people, yet people grind that out... Why is 1.5% damage mitigation so much worse?

    9% double-strike is a solid benefit, as is 9% more crit chance. People will be epic TRing. Most of us will do 6-9 TRs... On each character. That will keep most of us busy for a couple of years. I'm really looking forward to it.

    The low-end passive stuff is there just for the OCD addicts to have something to do.
    Last edited by Thrudh; 11-11-2013 at 01:19 PM.
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  4. #24
    2014 DDO Players Council Flavilandile's Avatar
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    Well Tomorrow ( in a few hours for me now ) they kill the only Endgame that hadn't been killed during the last year and a half.

    Despite all our suggestion and all the bad press they received from the various movements, they are dead set on forcing down our throat a change we did not want in a way we did not want while not doing what we do want.

    I've been a VIP ( in Europe and here ) since 2006 and lately I've been considering more and more cancelling that VIP.
    I have many friend that have cancelled some due to burnouts, others due to not agreeing to where the game is going....
    DDO cannot be a mainstream MMO despite what some people at Turbine think. It can only be a niche game, The Producers and the Developers need to start actually using our suggestion instead of implementing concepts straight out from mainstream games.
    Yes that the Enhancement Crash Tree Debacle, I'm eying here, while the UI could have used a refresh, there was Absolutely NO NEED to kill the old enhancements, they could have been put into a tree form.... But that also include expansions with level raises on a regular basis, and system changes that are made to cater to mainstream MMO players.
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flavilandile View Post
    Well Tomorrow ( in a few hours for me now ) they kill the only Endgame that hadn't been killed during the last year and a half.

    Despite all our suggestion and all the bad press they received from the various movements, they are dead set on forcing down our throat a change we did not want in a way we did not want while not doing what we do want.

    I've been a VIP ( in Europe and here ) since 2006 and lately I've been considering more and more cancelling that VIP.
    I have many friend that have cancelled some due to burnouts, others due to not agreeing to where the game is going....
    DDO cannot be a mainstream MMO despite what some people at Turbine think. It can only be a niche game, The Producers and the Developers need to start actually using our suggestion instead of implementing concepts straight out from mainstream games.
    Yes that the Enhancement Crash Tree Debacle, I'm eying here, while the UI could have used a refresh, there was Absolutely NO NEED to kill the old enhancements, they could have been put into a tree form.... But that also include expansions with level raises on a regular basis, and system changes that are made to cater to mainstream MMO players.
    What are they killing? Nothing changes tomorrow. They made tons of changes to the proposed system. All of your points are wrong. I want to know what they are cramming down your throat. If you don't want to ETR, then don't. They aren't changing a single thing. You don't know what you're talking about evidently.

    And yes, I somewhat agree on the enhancement update... but this system isn't even slightly comparable.

    Anyhow, I will agree that the epic past lives aren't shockingly good. But my point is that aside from paladin and wizard, neither are the heroic ones.

  6. #26
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Monk Heroic PL gives +1 to damage which is around 1% more DPS for most people, yet people grind that out... Why is 1.5% damage mitigation so much worse?
    We play a game where the mobs that matter have hundreds of thousands of HP, every little bit of damage helps. On the other side of that scale, 3% damage mitigation doesnt make it more swings for the mob to be able to kill you. It looks slightly better on paper but a mob that can kill you in 3 hits can still kill you in three hits.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    9% double-strike is a solid benefit, as is 9% more crit chance. People will be epic TRing. Most of us will do 6-9 TRs... On each character. That will keep most of us busy for a couple of years. I'm really looking forward to it.
    Heres part of their new plan which emphasizes my point exactly. They wont give us much better mitigation, but 9% increase in DPS isnt a big deal, because when mobs have insane HP totals, the impact will not be as large. Players have small HP totals in comparison, which is why the small level of mitigation they are giving as benefits is useless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    The low-end passive stuff is there just for the OCD addicts to have something to do.
    And has been mostly invalidated due to very little of it, if any, being needed.

    At some point players will realize that a hamster wheel with no reason to run on it is not an attractive "endgame" at all. Giving people "something to do" is not the same as "something to strive for" - a reason to add those benefits granted by the hamster wheel to their toon in the first place.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  7. #27
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    LOL... Every powergamer on these boards will epic TR their melee 3 times for that 9% double-strike.

    Even all of you who say it's not very good, not worth the grind... Every single one of them will still get that 9% doublestrike, because it IS good... You bunch of hypocrites.
    Whoa there broad-brush painter.

    Some are good for some builds - no denying. Offense on a melee build is orders of magnitudes better than defense, and neither means titsonapig to a DC caster.
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  8. #28
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Epic past life feats are not that bad, but for the amount of xp needed they are not good.

  9. #29
    Community Member Saravis's Avatar
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    Personally, I'd rather the EPLs work only in epic levels and be adjusted to better fit with epic content, but it seems to be the more popular thing for them to work in heroic content as well. Why, I haven't the foggiest idea, we don't need more power in heroic levels and it just creates further divide between TRs and 1st lifers.

  10. #30
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saravis View Post
    Personally, I'd rather the EPLs work only in epic levels and be adjusted to better fit with epic content, but it seems to be the more popular thing for them to work in heroic content as well. Why, I haven't the foggiest idea, we don't need more power in heroic levels and it just creates further divide between TRs and 1st lifers.
    me too and I agree, but EPLs working in heroics is probably popular because many players use ED twists already. players like smashing easy buttons.
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