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  1. #1
    Community Member jakeelala's Avatar
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    Default Cormyrian Knight Training - Any Comment?

    The part where you get 1/3rd of your Chaa bonus to Tactical DC's when your CHA is higher than str does not work, at all. In any form.

    It doesn't currently work on Lam either. Not in the Known Issue List.

    Lame.

  2. #2
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    Default yup

    Broke as hell, theres a lot more broke on pdks as well.

    For fun i posted a build a while back where nothing at all on it worked in the slightest. But noone got the joke.

    The build would be fun if it worked.

  3. #3
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    Default

    Thanks for the heads up, was planning a PDK monk but guess that's off the cards now.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by jakeelala View Post
    The part where you get 1/3rd of your Chaa bonus to Tactical DC's when your CHA is higher than str does not work, at all. In any form.

    It doesn't currently work on Lam either. Not in the Known Issue List.

    Lame.
    Ran tests on this yesterday after seeing a previous thread on the subject a few days back, it seems to be working both internally and on Live for us. If you could file a bug report with your character information, including any feats/enhancements/items you have that affect Tactical Feat DCs, that would help our investigation immensely.

    Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by 01000010 View Post
    Broke as hell, theres a lot more broke on pdks as well.
    There are a few fixes for PDK bugs coming in Update 21 (possibly sooner), if you'd care to elaborate on which abilities and enhancements are "broke as hell", we can better make sure we catch them.
    Last edited by Steelstar; 11-09-2013 at 08:23 AM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Ran tests on this yesterday after seeing a previous thread on the subject a few days back, it seems to be working both internally and on Live for us. If you could file a bug report with your character information, including any feats/enhancements/items you have that affect Tactical Feat DCs, that would help our investigation immensely.

    Thanks!



    There are a few fixes for PDK bugs coming in Update 21 (possibly sooner), if you'd care to elaborate on which abilities and enhancements are "broke as hell", we can better make sure we catch them.
    Not PDK but ninja spy capstone, fighter Kensei crit range and halfling crit range to throwers are all broken for shuriken/all throwers (i believe its all throwers but shurikens for certain).

    Also you guys broke the fun/heavy investment/not over powered stacking 150% faster sneaking ability, that for a brief moment made the shadar/halfling "+1w while sneaking for thrown attacks" something that would ever be used. Now it can go back to being wasted Dev time like so many things that give trivial power at too high an opportunity cost..
    You guys filibustering a new mode have already succeeded in scaring the Dev's into not doing it the right way and re-scaling the existing settings, why in the world are you still filibustering? Drunk on your success? Schadenfreude? Spitefulness?

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    Not PDK but ninja spy capstone, fighter Kensei crit range and halfling crit range to throwers are all broken.

    Also you guys broke the ... faster sneaking ability
    Thanks for the response, just a point of order:

    The more information we can get about a particular issue, the easier it is for us to track down the issue in question. If all we have to go off of is "x ability is broken", that could mean any one of dozens of potential issues. If instead, we get:
    "X ability seems to do nothing at all"
    "X ability gives one kind of bonus when it says it gives something else"
    "X ability doesn't seem to stack with my weapons"
    "X ability can't be taken from the enhancement tree"

    We can track down the issue much more effectively. In this particular case, how is the faster sneaking ability broken? Do you not sneak faster?

    Thanks!

  7. #7
    Community Member Blackheartox's Avatar
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    I filled a bug report, but il include print screens here as well.



    This is char screen to see stats/didnt include items but this was mainly to show i have higher charisma then strenght




    This is print screen with the enchancment selected and i hoverd over quilering palm to show dc number



    This is last print screen without the enchancment, gear wasnt swaped nor wisdom modified in rest of list, just wiithout the enhancment




    I hope this helps

  8. #8
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    Default

    The bug reporting mantra:

    What did you try?
    What did you expect to happen?
    What actually happened?

    Not "it is broken".

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackheartox View Post
    I hope this helps
    And it does! Monk feats like Quivering Palm aren't technically "Tactical Feats", but since Quivering Palm now uses Sunder-based DC bonuses, it should get the DC boost of Cormyrian Knight Training, but doesn't in the current build. We'll make sure this information gets passed along to QA.

    Thanks!

  10. #10
    Community Member jakeelala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    And it does! Monk feats like Quivering Palm aren't technically "Tactical Feats", but since Quivering Palm now uses Sunder-based DC bonuses, it should get the DC boost of Cormyrian Knight Training, but doesn't in the current build. We'll make sure this information gets passed along to QA.

    Thanks!
    ALL monk abilities that get boosts from items/feats/enhancements are tactical feats. TO be fair, I only tested with Monk abilities, it doesn't work on Stunning Fist either.

    Please update Kukan-Do, Quivering Palm, etc.

    PLEASE DONT MISS KUKANDO I really want this selfishly for a build I came up with that will be awesome. It's literally, thematically, the best tectical for a COrmyrian Monk Knight. Staring super hard with a lot of charisma and then bashing a face in.

    Also, please fix shuriken crit ranges.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakeelala View Post
    Also, please fix shuriken crit ranges.
    This is an excellent example of vague requests that will be ignored.

    Anyway, could the Frozen Fury from Warchanter tree be tagged as tactical feat (counts as Stunning)? And made STR or CHA.

  12. #12
    Community Member Nuryam's Avatar
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    From ddowiki: Cormyrean Knight Training: You now use Charisma or Strength, whichever is higher, for attack and damage with shortswords, longswords, bastard swords, and greatswords. In addition, as long as your Charisma remains higher than your Strength, you receive a bonus to the DCs of your Tactical Feats equal to 1/3 your Charisma modifier.

    The text doesn't explicitly say so, but it might be that the bonus only applies when wielding shortswords, longswords, bastard swords, and greatswords.

    I cannot say from your pictures if you are wielding any of those. But you cannot do stunning fist with them. Quivering Palm should work with monk weapons, in theory any of the mentioned blades.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    And it does! Monk feats like Quivering Palm aren't technically "Tactical Feats", but since Quivering Palm now uses Sunder-based DC bonuses, it should get the DC boost of Cormyrian Knight Training, but doesn't in the current build. We'll make sure this information gets passed along to QA.

    Thanks!
    Since you're here in this thread, I'd like to point out a bug I've reported but feels like it's being ignored:

    Unyielding Sovereignty, when used via the level 6 bonus feat granted to clerics and pallies, doesn't remove death penalties. Instead, it removes the death penalty counter. This means it locks death penalties in permanently until you shrine. It's a griefing tool, and also makes it pretty much useless for the one value it has.

    The enhancement version works properly.

  14. #14
    Community Member Blackheartox's Avatar
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    Tried it unarmed and with 2 celestias, as idea was to use it as hotswap for booses, neither worked. But it shouldnt require swords as they are optional, the tactics part is only affected by charisma being higher

  15. #15
    Community Member mrtreats's Avatar
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    seems like a good spot for it if you are a monk ranger you do not get the TWF perks from Ranger Core abilities in the tempest tree maybe even higher up I dropped the tree since its broken on monk/rng
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  16. #16
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    Default well, honestly

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Ran tests on this yesterday after seeing a previous thread on the subject a few days back, it seems to be working both internally and on Live for us. If you could file a bug report with your character information, including any feats/enhancements/items you have that affect Tactical Feat DCs, that would help our investigation immensely.

    Thanks!



    There are a few fixes for PDK bugs coming in Update 21 (possibly sooner), if you'd care to elaborate on which abilities and enhancements are "broke as hell", we can better make sure we catch them.
    To be perfectly honest I don't care to elaborate, the reason is that often "fixes" are also nerfs. In this case I have several characters that would be seriously nerfed if you chose to "fix" the pdk problems by changing the text in certain enhancements to mirror how it was coded rather than how it was intended.

    For example, the easiest way to "fix" the OPs specific problem(assuming it now works with trip, which I doubt and haven't tested) would be to change:

    Cormyrean Knight Training: You now use Charisma or Strength, whichever is higher, for attack and damage with shortswords, longswords, bastard swords, and greatswords. In addition, as long as your Charisma remains higher than your Strength, you receive a bonus to the DCs of your Tactical Feats equal to 1/3 your Charisma modifier.

    by replacing the words "tactical feats" with the words "Trip attempts", or by adding the words "while wielding the aforementioned weapons" if you don't want to bother fixing the monk handwrap onlt tactical feats...


    The last couple nerfixs you did made me reroll several builds.

    Last I tested it, assuming it wasn't fixed very recently, pdk monks are not able to add charisma mod to damage while wielding shortswords in monk stances. This is a side affect of the most previous nerfix where rather than fixing a bug, text was changed in a couple monk enhancements(the bug related to bow strength being overridden by dex to damage from monk core).

    I would rather not have to reroll several more characters, so I hesitate to report related bugs.
    Last edited by 01000010; 11-10-2013 at 06:57 AM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    And it does! Monk feats like Quivering Palm aren't technically "Tactical Feats", but since Quivering Palm now uses Sunder-based DC bonuses, it should get the DC boost of Cormyrian Knight Training, but doesn't in the current build. We'll make sure this information gets passed along to QA.

    Thanks!
    Please no. You should update the description to say it only works with Strength based tactics. Otherwise it should only add to quivering palm/stunning fist if their charisma is higher than their wisdom. It should only add to the acrobat area trip if their charisma is higher than their dexterity. Otherwise you are giving strength dumped monks/acrobats a +6-8 stunning fist/quivering palm/swepping strikes, which is wrong wrong wrong.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by 01000010 View Post
    if you chose to "fix" the pdk problems by changing the text in certain enhancements to mirror how it was coded rather than how it was intended.
    To be honest here, it was only ever intended to only grant the DC if you're wielding one of the aforementioned weapons (and thus benefiting from the CHA to hit and damage). The text does not reflect this properly, and will be corrected. In this case, the fix is a change in text because the text is unclear. The ability is meant to represent the Knight's training with swords, so the DC bonus only applies if you're wielding one.

    That said, Quivering Palm (which uses Sunder's DC bonuses) can be used with Monk weapons, which includes Shortswords and Longswords if you have the feat/enhancement to make them qualify as Monk weapons. This does not work right now, and will also be corrected. Any Monk abilities that use Tactical Feat DCs (Trip, Sunder, Stunning Blow) should benefit from Knight training provided the Monk is wielding a Sword and that the ability can be used while doing so.

  19. #19
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    nvm mind fart

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    To be honest here, it was only ever intended to only grant the DC if you're wielding one of the aforementioned weapons (and thus benefiting from the CHA to hit and damage). The text does not reflect this properly, and will be corrected. In this case, the fix is a change in text because the text is unclear. The ability is meant to represent the Knight's training with swords, so the DC bonus only applies if you're wielding one.

    That said, Quivering Palm (which uses Sunder's DC bonuses) can be used with Monk weapons, which includes Shortswords and Longswords if you have the feat/enhancement to make them qualify as Monk weapons. This does not work right now, and will also be corrected. Any Monk abilities that use Tactical Feat DCs (Trip, Sunder, Stunning Blow) should benefit from Knight training provided the Monk is wielding a Sword and that the ability can be used while doing so.
    I suppose that this fix won't make it into u20? If so, can we expect it to be implemented in some u20 patch, or will we have to wait till u21?

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